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Author Topic: Reformed and Evangelicals Understanding of Eastern Orthodoxy  (Read 5158 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2011, 01:12:23 PM »

One can never have too many sermons--at liturgy, at matins, at vespers, at the sixth hour, at akathists. But no sermon is preferable to a bad one. Bad homilies became commonplace when seminaries stopped flogging seminarians.
LOL. I was just reading a study on the prosopography of the Russian episcopate during the Synodal period, where it was noticed the extremely long ages even by today's standards, let alone the 18-19th centuries. It noted the brutality of the theological academies, and, postulating survival of the fittest, theorized that if the young bishops to be survived it, they were pretty likely to survive what killed lesser men.

That, or grow up to be Stalin.
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« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2011, 01:17:51 PM »

There is no theology in the Orthodox church?
Really they could say that with a straight face?

Not just in the Church, but in the liturgy. He complained about not having a sermon and having nothing but chant, but there is more of the foundational beliefs of Christianity and scripture references found in those prayers and hymns than probably in any protestant sermon.
One thing that struck me about the Evangelicals (I noticed it first at a service of the "Church of Christ"-instrumental) that, besides the sermon, how much their "worship" is devoid of scripture.  Not much more thelogy in there either.  So these complaints much be Protestant projection.

I have to agree with you on the worship.  Except for the sermon and some of the praise songs, there isn't all that much Scripture, and in many circles, the word "doctrine" is almost a dirty word.  A lot of churches don't really want to get into that--it can be way too divisive.  I noticed this long before I started attending an Orthodox church 11 years ago now (as of Transfiguration).  I think way too many want to believe what they want to believe, and they don't want anyone telling them that what they believe is wrong.  Also in this megachurch age, you can't afford to get anyone angry enough with you that they might leave.  It'll be interesting to see how many churches cancel Sunday services on December 25th this year, as many churches did this the last time Christmas fell on a Sunday.  What is ironic is that quite a few of these churches were the same ones that accused Walmart of taking Christ out of Christmas by switching to saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas".  They were encouraging people to boycott Walmart, but then cancelled Sunday services on December 25th because, after all, it was Christmas and a day for people to be with their families.
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« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2011, 01:27:10 PM »

I used to sit in the back of the Church and point at my watch when my father droned on more than 20 minutes.  He was taught in the Seminary that a sermon had to 20 minutes long in the Lutheran Church.  I noticed that most preachers took that to heart, whether or not they had 20 minutes of stuff to say.  However, my father was an ex-Baptist . . .

Two points that I learned in Speech classes and Toastmasters seem to me to be applicable to sermons:

1.  The three S's - Stand up, Speak up, Shut up.  Keep it short and to the point.

2.  There are no converts after the first ten minutes.  If you have not said what needs to be said in that time, you may as well give it up because most everyone is asleep.  There are some speakers that can effectively go on longer than that, but they are few and far between.


Put me down on the side that says the sermon is an essential part of the Liturgy and participates in its general sacramental character.  I do not think that it is optional, but it can be short.  I also think that it should explain those readings, which were just read. 

Short is good!  This is not something that I appreciated during the early years of my ministry.  I thought I was short-changing my congregation if I did not preach at least twenty minutes.  But now I believe that, within the context of the eucharistic liturgy, most homilies should be limited to ten to twelve minutes.  The liturgy is already long and most people cannot maintain their attention for much longer.  The rule is:  the better the preacher, the longer he can effectively preach.  Most of us mere mortals, however, best serve our congregations if we limit limit our homilies to ten to twelve minutes.

Short homilies are actually more difficult to construct than longer homilies.  Every homily needs one theme, and every word, every illustration, needs to illuminate that theme.  Rambling is not preaching.
I wonder if having someone run a stop watch and a traffic signal light (green light at 10 min., yellow light at 12 min., red light at 14 min.) would help the priest keep his homily short. Grin
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« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2011, 01:38:57 PM »

There is no theology in the Orthodox church?
Really they could say that with a straight face?

Not just in the Church, but in the liturgy. He complained about not having a sermon and having nothing but chant, but there is more of the foundational beliefs of Christianity and scripture references found in those prayers and hymns than probably in any protestant sermon.
One thing that struck me about the Evangelicals (I noticed it first at a service of the "Church of Christ"-instrumental) that, besides the sermon, how much their "worship" is devoid of scripture.  Not much more thelogy in there either.  So these complaints much be Protestant projection.

I have to agree with you on the worship.  Except for the sermon and some of the praise songs, there isn't all that much Scripture, and in many circles, the word "doctrine" is almost a dirty word.  A lot of churches don't really want to get into that--it can be way too divisive.  I noticed this long before I started attending an Orthodox church 11 years ago now (as of Transfiguration).  I think way too many want to believe what they want to believe, and they don't want anyone telling them that what they believe is wrong.  Also in this megachurch age, you can't afford to get anyone angry enough with you that they might leave.  It'll be interesting to see how many churches cancel Sunday services on December 25th this year, as many churches did this the last time Christmas fell on a Sunday.  What is ironic is that quite a few of these churches were the same ones that accused Walmart of taking Christ out of Christmas by switching to saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas".  They were encouraging people to boycott Walmart, but then cancelled Sunday services on December 25th because, after all, it was Christmas and a day for people to be with their families.
LOL.  My sons' mother, when she was still going to church (she says now she doesn't want to "waste her day off"), went to willow creek (I found that out when they started talking about going to "the church where we don't pray" Grin).  They cancelled it when it feel on Sunday 6 years ago. My younger son, then 5, commented when he heard that "That's dumb." out of the mouths of babes.

I wonder if they will cancel Easter.  I hear it's on a Sunday this year. Tongue
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« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2011, 01:41:18 PM »

Because I get to sit down during the sermon, I don't really care how long it is.
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« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2011, 01:54:13 PM »

One can never have too many sermons--at liturgy, at matins, at vespers, at the sixth hour, at akathists. But no sermon is preferable to a bad one. Bad homilies became commonplace when seminaries stopped flogging seminarians.
LOL. I was just reading a study on the prosopography of the Russian episcopate during the Synodal period, where it was noticed the extremely long ages even by today's standards, let alone the 18-19th centuries. It noted the brutality of the theological academies, and, postulating survival of the fittest, theorized that if the young bishops to be survived it, they were pretty likely to survive what killed lesser men.

That, or grow up to be Stalin.

I remember reading a good book "Our Hope"
http://books.google.com/books?id=MTQmAQAAIAAJ&q=our+hope&dq=our+hope&hl=en

It was translated sermons of a Russian priest who had been tortured by the KGB and hounded.  Since there was no religious education allowed, the only time he got was sermons during services. He used to do things like have people write questions and drop them in a box, and he would go on them.  A lot of the sermons were extremely practicle, intimate and immediate: in one he told people who could not get Bibles to read old Russian novels like Dostoevsky.  The number of Bibles were extremely limited, but even in the heavily censured Soviet versions of Dostoevky the quoted scriptures and scriptural allusions could not be completely eliminated, and the Soviets heavily promoted the Russian classics.

I have to admit, it has heavily influenced my belief in the importance of sermons.
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« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2011, 02:48:46 PM »

I think it's hilarious that one of them though there there was no "theology" in the liturgy that he attended in Russia. I can only attribute it to his lack of Russian language skills.

They're sincere men, but they have a lot to learn. Unfortunately, they think the appeal to EO is strictly aesthetic.

I heard someone comment on Mr. MacArthur's experience,saying that since the service was void of a sermon,He probably attended one of the weekly services,whether it be Vespers,or another service I'm not sure.  I thought the comment about the absense of a "tract table" was pretty hilarious.
That's because in the days of the Apostles, that was the sign of a True Church, when 90+% of the population was illiterate.

That said, they do serve a purpose, and there is not anything heretical about Orthodoxy using this medium, especially for those who won't go ask questions of strangers, but will take and read a tract in their own privacy.

We have lots of tracts (Conciliar Press has many wonderful ones).
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« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2011, 03:56:51 PM »


Put me down on the side that says the sermon is an essential part of the Liturgy and participates in its general sacramental character.  I do not think that it is optional, but it can be short.  I also think that it should explain those readings, which were just read. 

Short is good!  This is not something that I appreciated during the early years of my ministry.  I thought I was short-changing my congregation if I did not preach at least twenty minutes.  But now I believe that, within the context of the eucharistic liturgy, most homilies should be limited to ten to twelve minutes.  The liturgy is already long and most people cannot maintain their attention for much longer.  The rule is:  the better the preacher, the longer he can effectively preach.  Most of us mere mortals, however, best serve our congregations if we limit limit our homilies to ten to twelve minutes.

Short homilies are actually more difficult to construct than longer homilies.  Every homily needs one theme, and every word, every illustration, needs to illuminate that theme.  Rambling is not preaching.
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« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2011, 04:30:36 PM »

I did not watch the video so I can only take people's word for it regarding the idiotic things that were said. Does anyone else find it intriguing at best that there are no Orthodox speakers in this panel?

I am sad and embarrassed that I have seen such conduct from an Orthodox Christian panel as well.
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« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2011, 06:19:35 PM »

I did not watch the video so I can only take people's word for it regarding the idiotic things that were said. Does anyone else find it intriguing at best that there are no Orthodox speakers in this panel?

I am sad and embarrassed that I have seen such conduct from an Orthodox Christian panel as well.

I apologize,I'm not quite sure what your asking, maybe I'm a little slow to understand.
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« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2011, 06:21:59 PM »

I think it's hilarious that one of them though there there was no "theology" in the liturgy that he attended in Russia. I can only attribute it to his lack of Russian language skills.

They're sincere men, but they have a lot to learn. Unfortunately, they think the appeal to EO is strictly aesthetic.

I heard someone comment on Mr. MacArthur's experience,saying that since the service was void of a sermon,He probably attended one of the weekly services,whether it be Vespers,or another service I'm not sure.  I thought the comment about the absense of a "tract table" was pretty hilarious.
That's because in the days of the Apostles, that was the sign of a True Church, when 90+% of the population was illiterate.

That said, they do serve a purpose, and there is not anything heretical about Orthodoxy using this medium, especially for those who won't go ask questions of strangers, but will take and read a tract in their own privacy.

We have lots of tracts (Conciliar Press has many wonderful ones).

I think tracts are a great tool,but maybe for one-on-one disscussions,when one has a hard time explaining their faith.
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« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2011, 06:34:25 PM »

I did not watch the video so I can only take people's word for it regarding the idiotic things that were said. Does anyone else find it intriguing at best that there are no Orthodox speakers in this panel?

I am sad and embarrassed that I have seen such conduct from an Orthodox Christian panel as well.

I apologize,I'm not quite sure what your asking, maybe I'm a little slow to understand.

I wasn't really asking anything, just commenting; and what my main comment was is that both panels conveniently neglected to let the target of their high-mindedness defend themselves
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« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2011, 09:30:32 AM »

Coming from a background where these men are highly respected, thus being familiar with their style and works, this video simply doesn't surprise me. They're not being vindictive in saying that Orthodoxy has no theology, but instead being ignorant; because Orthodoxy doesn't look like what they're used to, then Orthodoxy can have no theology.

As for the sermon issue, only once have I attended a service where a homily wasn't presented. Ironically enough, it was at the Cathedral in Wichita, KS. There was some reason behind it, though I don't remember now what it was.

But truth be told - and I've said this elsewhere on this board - I've heard more theology, Scripture, and Gospel-teaching in one liturgical service than I did in ten years of exegetical teachings at a Baptist church. Even now on the occasion I visit a Baptist church - churches that pride themselves in bringing theology and exegetical teaching in all their sermons - it just seems empty compared to Orthodox services.

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« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2011, 10:21:40 AM »

I have to admit that I find it heart breaking that the Midnight Christmas Eve services I have been to tend not to have sermons (from as far as I could). If there are two days out of the year in which a good sermon is needed, its Christmas and Easter.
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« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2011, 10:24:25 AM »

Coming from a background where these men are highly respected, thus being familiar with their style and works, this video simply doesn't surprise me. They're not being vindictive in saying that Orthodoxy has no theology, but instead being ignorant; because Orthodoxy doesn't look like what they're used to, then Orthodoxy can have no theology.


Not sure. MacArthur, Kennedy, White, Morey and the like thrive on calling anything remotely reminiscent of Catholicism as evil. In their minds, since Orthodoxy is 'Catholic' we have to be bad.
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« Reply #60 on: August 29, 2011, 06:18:25 PM »

Coming from a background where these men are highly respected, thus being familiar with their style and works, this video simply doesn't surprise me. They're not being vindictive in saying that Orthodoxy has no theology, but instead being ignorant; because Orthodoxy doesn't look like what they're used to, then Orthodoxy can have no theology.

As for the sermon issue, only once have I attended a service where a homily wasn't presented. Ironically enough, it was at the Cathedral in Wichita, KS. There was some reason behind it, though I don't remember now what it was.

But truth be told - and I've said this elsewhere on this board - I've heard more theology, Scripture, and Gospel-teaching in one liturgical service than I did in ten years of exegetical teachings at a Baptist church. Even now on the occasion I visit a Baptist church - churches that pride themselves in bringing theology and exegetical teaching in all their sermons - it just seems empty compared to Orthodox services.



You make some very good points, I was a very ardent fan of these guys,and many more like them. Their theology really can be reduced to nothing more than over dramatized bible stories. I call it Christian "baby food"!!! A regular diet of this for too many years can starve a person!!!
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« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2011, 06:43:35 PM »

Coming from a background where these men are highly respected, thus being familiar with their style and works, this video simply doesn't surprise me. They're not being vindictive in saying that Orthodoxy has no theology, but instead being ignorant; because Orthodoxy doesn't look like what they're used to, then Orthodoxy can have no theology.

As for the sermon issue, only once have I attended a service where a homily wasn't presented. Ironically enough, it was at the Cathedral in Wichita, KS. There was some reason behind it, though I don't remember now what it was.

But truth be told - and I've said this elsewhere on this board - I've heard more theology, Scripture, and Gospel-teaching in one liturgical service than I did in ten years of exegetical teachings at a Baptist church. Even now on the occasion I visit a Baptist church - churches that pride themselves in bringing theology and exegetical teaching in all their sermons - it just seems empty compared to Orthodox services.



You make some very good points, I was a very ardent fan of these guys,and many more like them. Their theology really can be reduced to nothing more than over dramatized bible stories. I call it Christian "baby food"!!! A regular diet of this for too many years can starve a person!!!

But I have to admit that sometimes I really miss the straightforward simplicity of my former Protestant churches. As a professor for who I was acting as a research assistant said to me once: "you're complicating the hell out of it again". It's true that some times over simplification can fail to provide what is needed (imagine trying to solve a Statistics question with nothing more than basic Arithmetic), but so too can insisting in over-analyzing (again, same analogy as before, but this time solving an Arithmetic question) cause problems too.
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« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2011, 07:05:58 PM »

Coming from a background where these men are highly respected, thus being familiar with their style and works, this video simply doesn't surprise me. They're not being vindictive in saying that Orthodoxy has no theology, but instead being ignorant; because Orthodoxy doesn't look like what they're used to, then Orthodoxy can have no theology.

As for the sermon issue, only once have I attended a service where a homily wasn't presented. Ironically enough, it was at the Cathedral in Wichita, KS. There was some reason behind it, though I don't remember now what it was.

But truth be told - and I've said this elsewhere on this board - I've heard more theology, Scripture, and Gospel-teaching in one liturgical service than I did in ten years of exegetical teachings at a Baptist church. Even now on the occasion I visit a Baptist church - churches that pride themselves in bringing theology and exegetical teaching in all their sermons - it just seems empty compared to Orthodox services.



You make some very good points, I was a very ardent fan of these guys,and many more like them. Their theology really can be reduced to nothing more than over dramatized bible stories. I call it Christian "baby food"!!! A regular diet of this for too many years can starve a person!!!

But I have to admit that sometimes I really miss the straightforward simplicity of my former Protestant churches. As a professor for who I was acting as a research assistant said to me once: "you're complicating the hell out of it again". It's true that some times over simplification can fail to provide what is needed (imagine trying to solve a Statistics question with nothing more than basic Arithmetic), but so too can insisting in over-analyzing (again, same analogy as before, but this time solving an Arithmetic question) cause problems too.

I can see where your coming from, I listened to MacArthur for years,and I can remember a couple of sermons regarding a Christians pursuit for "contentment" in life that was very profound!!
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« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2011, 07:21:53 PM »

I have to admit that I find it heart breaking that the Midnight Christmas Eve services I have been to tend not to have sermons (from as far as I could). If there are two days out of the year in which a good sermon is needed, its Christmas and Easter.

The Easter Sermon of St John Chrysostom is a standard part of the Paschal liturgy. Can't imagine a better one for the occasion.
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« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2011, 10:26:08 AM »

Coming from a background where these men are highly respected, thus being familiar with their style and works, this video simply doesn't surprise me. They're not being vindictive in saying that Orthodoxy has no theology, but instead being ignorant; because Orthodoxy doesn't look like what they're used to, then Orthodoxy can have no theology.

As for the sermon issue, only once have I attended a service where a homily wasn't presented. Ironically enough, it was at the Cathedral in Wichita, KS. There was some reason behind it, though I don't remember now what it was.

But truth be told - and I've said this elsewhere on this board - I've heard more theology, Scripture, and Gospel-teaching in one liturgical service than I did in ten years of exegetical teachings at a Baptist church. Even now on the occasion I visit a Baptist church - churches that pride themselves in bringing theology and exegetical teaching in all their sermons - it just seems empty compared to Orthodox services.



You make some very good points, I was a very ardent fan of these guys,and many more like them. Their theology really can be reduced to nothing more than over dramatized bible stories. I call it Christian "baby food"!!! A regular diet of this for too many years can starve a person!!!

But I have to admit that sometimes I really miss the straightforward simplicity of my former Protestant churches. As a professor for who I was acting as a research assistant said to me once: "you're complicating the hell out of it again". It's true that some times over simplification can fail to provide what is needed (imagine trying to solve a Statistics question with nothing more than basic Arithmetic), but so too can insisting in over-analyzing (again, same analogy as before, but this time solving an Arithmetic question) cause problems too.

If you had Cancer ( God forbid it) would you go to a home spun country Doctor? He would be straight forward and simple within his power to help you. Sometimes such an approach works. But all in all you would do better at a modern hospital and even better at the Mayo Clinic. It would be more complicated in some ways for sure but the results would be worth it.
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« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2011, 10:29:29 AM »

Coming from a background where these men are highly respected, thus being familiar with their style and works, this video simply doesn't surprise me. They're not being vindictive in saying that Orthodoxy has no theology, but instead being ignorant; because Orthodoxy doesn't look like what they're used to, then Orthodoxy can have no theology.

As for the sermon issue, only once have I attended a service where a homily wasn't presented. Ironically enough, it was at the Cathedral in Wichita, KS. There was some reason behind it, though I don't remember now what it was.

But truth be told - and I've said this elsewhere on this board - I've heard more theology, Scripture, and Gospel-teaching in one liturgical service than I did in ten years of exegetical teachings at a Baptist church. Even now on the occasion I visit a Baptist church - churches that pride themselves in bringing theology and exegetical teaching in all their sermons - it just seems empty compared to Orthodox services.



You make some very good points, I was a very ardent fan of these guys,and many more like them. Their theology really can be reduced to nothing more than over dramatized bible stories. I call it Christian "baby food"!!! A regular diet of this for too many years can starve a person!!!

But I have to admit that sometimes I really miss the straightforward simplicity of my former Protestant churches. As a professor for who I was acting as a research assistant said to me once: "you're complicating the hell out of it again". It's true that some times over simplification can fail to provide what is needed (imagine trying to solve a Statistics question with nothing more than basic Arithmetic), but so too can insisting in over-analyzing (again, same analogy as before, but this time solving an Arithmetic question) cause problems too.

If you had Cancer ( God forbid it) would you go to a home spun country Doctor? He would be straight forward and simple within his power to help you. Sometimes such an approach works. But all in all you would do better at a modern hospital and even better at the Mayo Clinic. It would be more complicated in some ways for sure but the results would be worth it.

Interesting. Now can you please apply that analogy to Orthodox Vs. Protestant catechisms?
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« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2011, 10:43:01 AM »

I have been to exactly two Protestant Services in my life. One was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out in the country, deep into the Shenandoah Valley where my new wife's family lives. It's heavily Mennonite. Her family goes to the "Church of the Brethren" which I think is  another form of Anabaptist. I am not really sure but they are all regular secular type people with cars and jobs, some are farmers.

I found it to be very pleasant. . Very simple Zen-like hall, dark wood all around very pleasing ethos. The Sermon was  nice, the pie was great. They were having some sort of BBQ the next week. I was sorry we couldnt come back for it. I love BBQ.

Most everyone is related to each other in some way or another. it's a strong little community. I was well entertained and a little inspired by the Sermon, well fed (stomach) and made to feel at home. It made me want to flee the city.

I get the appeal.

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« Reply #67 on: September 06, 2011, 11:41:46 AM »

I have been to exactly two Protestant Services in my life. One was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out in the country, deep into the Shenandoah Valley where my new wife's family lives. It's heavily Mennonite. Her family goes to the "Church of the Brethren" which I think is  another form of Anabaptist. I am not really sure but they are all regular secular type people with cars and jobs, some are farmers.

I found it to be very pleasant. . Very simple Zen-like hall, dark wood all around very pleasing ethos. The Sermon was  nice, the pie was great. They were having some sort of BBQ the next week. I was sorry we couldnt come back for it. I love BBQ.

Most everyone is related to each other in some way or another. it's a strong little community. I was well entertained and a little inspired by the Sermon, well fed (stomach) and made to feel at home. It made me want to flee the city.

I get the appeal.



I've been to a few of the Bretheren churches too. Quite a few in the valley. Where at?

PP
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« Reply #68 on: September 06, 2011, 01:17:54 PM »

I have been to exactly two Protestant Services in my life. One was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out in the country, deep into the Shenandoah Valley where my new wife's family lives.
I thought your wife was Buddhist.
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« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2011, 07:10:47 AM »

Coming from a background where these men are highly respected, thus being familiar with their style and works, this video simply doesn't surprise me. They're not being vindictive in saying that Orthodoxy has no theology, but instead being ignorant; because Orthodoxy doesn't look like what they're used to, then Orthodoxy can have no theology.


Not sure. MacArthur, Kennedy, White, Morey and the like thrive on calling anything remotely reminiscent of Catholicism as evil. In their minds, since Orthodoxy is 'Catholic' we have to be bad.
Just for the record, I never considered Morey, MacArthur, or Kennedy to be Men of God anyway
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« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2011, 12:09:12 PM »

I have been to exactly two Protestant Services in my life. One was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out in the country, deep into the Shenandoah Valley where my new wife's family lives. It's heavily Mennonite. Her family goes to the "Church of the Brethren" which I think is  another form of Anabaptist. I am not really sure but they are all regular secular type people with cars and jobs, some are farmers.

I found it to be very pleasant. . Very simple Zen-like hall, dark wood all around very pleasing ethos. The Sermon was  nice, the pie was great. They were having some sort of BBQ the next week. I was sorry we couldnt come back for it. I love BBQ.

Most everyone is related to each other in some way or another. it's a strong little community. I was well entertained and a little inspired by the Sermon, well fed (stomach) and made to feel at home. It made me want to flee the city.

I get the appeal.



I've been to a few of the Bretheren churches too. Quite a few in the valley. Where at?

PP

Spring Creek VA. or just outside of it. South of Harrisonburg

Oh and the next town over is named something like "Brinie Branch"...  When I asked about it ( there was some kind of fair or gun show going on ) they responded..with a syrupy southern drawl:  "Oh those people over there are hicks"     ROFL
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« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2011, 12:11:10 PM »

I have been to exactly two Protestant Services in my life. One was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out in the country, deep into the Shenandoah Valley where my new wife's family lives.
I thought your wife was Buddhist.

I was a Buddhist. She was a secular Jew. She passed away five years ago. The new wifey is being referred to here.

   
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« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2011, 03:22:14 PM »

sacerdotal vs evangelical...hmmm

odd beliefs...theosis is bizzare warping of bibles teaching on sanctification...blah blah

attended a liturgy in Moscow...no theology...nothing...sacerdotalism + nothing...blah blah

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« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2011, 04:29:17 PM »

sacerdotal vs evangelical...hmmm

odd beliefs...theosis is bizzare warping of bibles teaching on sanctification...blah blah

attended a liturgy in Moscow...no theology...nothing...sacerdotalism + nothing...blah blah



In my fantasy life I want to see debates between Orthodox and folks like this. Wouldn't it be great if Ancient Faith Radio or some such could sponsor something like that, invite the usual suspects and then have at it in a semi-formal debate setting.. Vatican vs us too.
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« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2011, 04:33:06 PM »

sacerdotal vs evangelical...hmmm

odd beliefs...theosis is bizzare warping of bibles teaching on sanctification...blah blah

attended a liturgy in Moscow...no theology...nothing...sacerdotalism + nothing...blah blah



In my fantasy life I want to see debates between Orthodox and folks like this. Wouldn't it be great if Ancient Faith Radio or some such could sponsor something like that, invite the usual suspects and then have at it in a semi-formal debate setting.. Vatican vs us too.

I say a team of 3. Baptists can pick 3, Anglicans pick their 3, RC's and the Orthodox.  To steal a star trek quote, I'd pay real money to see that.


PP
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« Reply #75 on: September 08, 2011, 04:41:39 PM »

sacerdotal vs evangelical...hmmm

odd beliefs...theosis is bizzare warping of bibles teaching on sanctification...blah blah

attended a liturgy in Moscow...no theology...nothing...sacerdotalism + nothing...blah blah



In my fantasy life I want to see debates between Orthodox and folks like this. Wouldn't it be great if Ancient Faith Radio or some such could sponsor something like that, invite the usual suspects and then have at it in a semi-formal debate setting.. Vatican vs us too.

I can make your fantasy a reality: here you goWink
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« Reply #76 on: September 08, 2011, 05:23:20 PM »

sacerdotal vs evangelical...hmmm

odd beliefs...theosis is bizzare warping of bibles teaching on sanctification...blah blah

attended a liturgy in Moscow...no theology...nothing...sacerdotalism + nothing...blah blah



In my fantasy life I want to see debates between Orthodox and folks like this. Wouldn't it be great if Ancient Faith Radio or some such could sponsor something like that, invite the usual suspects and then have at it in a semi-formal debate setting.. Vatican vs us too.

I can make your fantasy a reality: here you goWink
You might actually get farther with a Google search if you spell the search terms correctly. It's "Christian", NOT "Chrisitan". LOL! laugh
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« Reply #77 on: September 08, 2011, 05:27:42 PM »

You might actually get farther with a Google search if you spell the search terms correctly. It's "Christian", NOT "Chrisitan". LOL! laugh

 Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy

Um... I did that on purpose. Yeah, that's right. If you spell it correctly you got all these snooty and elitist websites. Who wants that?

 angel
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« Reply #78 on: September 08, 2011, 05:32:42 PM »

You might actually get farther with a Google search if you spell the search terms correctly. It's "Christian", NOT "Chrisitan". LOL! laugh

 Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy

Um... I did that on purpose. Yeah, that's right. If you spell it correctly you got all these snooty and elitist websites. Who wants that?

 angel
Yeah, right. Roll Eyes  Wink
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Marc1152
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« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2011, 05:49:31 PM »

sacerdotal vs evangelical...hmmm

odd beliefs...theosis is bizzare warping of bibles teaching on sanctification...blah blah

attended a liturgy in Moscow...no theology...nothing...sacerdotalism + nothing...blah blah



In my fantasy life I want to see debates between Orthodox and folks like this. Wouldn't it be great if Ancient Faith Radio or some such could sponsor something like that, invite the usual suspects and then have at it in a semi-formal debate setting.. Vatican vs us too.

I say a team of 3. Baptists can pick 3, Anglicans pick their 3, RC's and the Orthodox.  To steal a star trek quote, I'd pay real money to see that.


PP

yes, teams of 3 or 4 but not  all groups at once.

Who would you pick on the Orthodox side vs Evangelicals?
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« Reply #80 on: September 09, 2011, 03:31:08 AM »

The longest I've heard was 30 mins....
Baptist preachers don't break a sweat until 45 minutes in.

Depends on how far south you go...some will be sweating right off the get-go Wink
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« Reply #81 on: September 09, 2011, 03:31:55 AM »

sacerdotal vs evangelical...hmmm

odd beliefs...theosis is bizzare warping of bibles teaching on sanctification...blah blah

attended a liturgy in Moscow...no theology...nothing...sacerdotalism + nothing...blah blah



In my fantasy life I want to see debates between Orthodox and folks like this. Wouldn't it be great if Ancient Faith Radio or some such could sponsor something like that, invite the usual suspects and then have at it in a semi-formal debate setting.. Vatican vs us too.

I say a team of 3. Baptists can pick 3, Anglicans pick their 3, RC's and the Orthodox.  To steal a star trek quote, I'd pay real money to see that.


PP

yes, teams of 3 or 4 but not  all groups at once.

Who would you pick on the Orthodox side vs Evangelicals?

1 vote for Fr. Hopko
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« Reply #82 on: September 09, 2011, 06:42:22 AM »

sacerdotal vs evangelical...hmmm

odd beliefs...theosis is bizzare warping of bibles teaching on sanctification...blah blah

attended a liturgy in Moscow...no theology...nothing...sacerdotalism + nothing...blah blah



In my fantasy life I want to see debates between Orthodox and folks like this. Wouldn't it be great if Ancient Faith Radio or some such could sponsor something like that, invite the usual suspects and then have at it in a semi-formal debate setting.. Vatican vs us too.

I say a team of 3. Baptists can pick 3, Anglicans pick their 3, RC's and the Orthodox.  To steal a star trek quote, I'd pay real money to see that.


PP

yes, teams of 3 or 4 but not  all groups at once.

Who would you pick on the Orthodox side vs Evangelicals?

1 vote for Fr. Hopko
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« Reply #83 on: September 09, 2011, 10:29:38 AM »

yes, teams of 3 or 4 but not  all groups at once.

Who would you pick on the Orthodox side vs Evangelicals?

Fr James Early (former Baptist preacher) for comparing beliefs

Fr Thomas Hopko for clarifying the Orthodox teaching on any given point

Fr Vasily (IS OUTRAGE) for giving an Orthodox response to Protestant teaching on any given point (   laugh )
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« Reply #84 on: September 09, 2011, 05:36:04 PM »

sacerdotal vs evangelical...hmmm

odd beliefs...theosis is bizzare warping of bibles teaching on sanctification...blah blah

attended a liturgy in Moscow...no theology...nothing...sacerdotalism + nothing...blah blah



In my fantasy life I want to see debates between Orthodox and folks like this. Wouldn't it be great if Ancient Faith Radio or some such could sponsor something like that, invite the usual suspects and then have at it in a semi-formal debate setting.. Vatican vs us too.

That would be very intresting,I do know of a particular podcast,hosted by Steve Robinson,and Bill Gould,that features I guess you could call an informal debate,between them and a gentleman by the name of James White,who is a Reformed Baptist Apologist,He has had debates will different Roman Catholic priests. They are discussing the issue of Sola Scriptura,you might check that out on Ancient Faith Radio,the title of the Podcast is "Our Life in Christ".
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« Reply #85 on: September 09, 2011, 07:09:07 PM »

For the Anglican side, I'd nominate the Most Reverend Peter D. Robinson of the United Episcopal Church of North America and Father Robert Hart of the Anglican Catholic Church. Both are contributors to The Continuum, an Anglican blog of which I am rather fond. ( http://anglicancontinuum.blogspot.com )
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« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2011, 11:40:58 PM »

sacerdotal vs evangelical...hmmm

odd beliefs...theosis is bizzare warping of bibles teaching on sanctification...blah blah

attended a liturgy in Moscow...no theology...nothing...sacerdotalism + nothing...blah blah



In my fantasy life I want to see debates between Orthodox and folks like this. Wouldn't it be great if Ancient Faith Radio or some such could sponsor something like that, invite the usual suspects and then have at it in a semi-formal debate setting.. Vatican vs us too.

That would be very intresting,I do know of a particular podcast,hosted by Steve Robinson,and Bill Gould,that features I guess you could call an informal debate,between them and a gentleman by the name of James White,who is a Reformed Baptist Apologist,He has had debates will different Roman Catholic priests. They are discussing the issue of Sola Scriptura,you might check that out on Ancient Faith Radio,the title of the Podcast is "Our Life in Christ".

Yup, Big fan. I know Steve a bit. I wish they would produce a few more shows.
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