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Poll
Question: When do you think Jesus will come back again???  (Voting closed: August 22, 2011, 07:18:13 PM)
not for at least 11 years - 3 (33.3%)
not for at least 2713 years - 2 (22.2%)
tomorrow - 2 (22.2%)
hes been already - 1 (11.1%)
Jesus who?? - 1 (11.1%)
Total Voters: 9

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« on: August 19, 2011, 07:18:13 PM »

Bring on the trumpets!!!!!

Are you looking forward to it?? Are you scared?? What will you be doing when it happens?? What do you hope your not doing when it happens?? haha...
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2011, 08:48:22 PM »

Whenever it's going to happen, I hope I'm sober.
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2011, 08:49:35 PM »

Whenever the Father decides it is time.  We don't know until then.
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2011, 08:55:07 PM »

Whenever it's going to happen, I hope I'm sober.

Interestingly, He came more than a few times, when I wasn't.

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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2011, 08:59:11 PM »

Papal secretary: "Your Holiness, I have good news and bad news".

Pope: "What's the good news?"

Papal secretary: "Jesus has returned to Earth and is on the phone".

Pope: "Praise God! What's the bad news?"

Papal secretary: "He's calling from Salt Lake City."
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2011, 09:01:04 PM »

 Shocked THAT would make me reach for a bottle!
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2011, 09:06:45 PM »

Shocked THAT would make me reach for a bottle!

OR THREE!  Shocked laugh laugh
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2011, 02:26:32 AM »

I can honestly see it happening within a generation.

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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2011, 02:41:49 AM »

I can honestly see it happening within a generation.



crikey really?? You think there will be any warning that hes about to come??
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2011, 03:27:31 AM »

It really depends upon interpretation. In my more dubious moments, I wonder if the Book of Revelations is more properly understood as allegory. There's a growing body of argument to that effect. Of course, disbelief in the Book of Revelations could be interpreted as a sign of the end times...

There are a lot of indications that the Times are near. The establishment of Israel as a nation is widely seen as having fulfilled prophecy and places us in the end times. We have the technology available now (RDIF chips, for example) to fulfill some of the more chilling INTERPRETATIONS of prophecy. Global economics, global weather patterns, etc. Can, and in some circles are, being interpreted as signs of the Second Coming being imminent. Moslem prophecies regarding the Twelfth Imams seem to intermesh frighteningly well with the Final Antichrist - or so I have been told.

There's been a lot of periods in Christian history that sober-minded believers could reasonably think they were living in the (very) last days, and I think we are living in one of those periods. I personally try not to get too worked up about it (any more!). Whether I live to see the Second Coming is rather irrelevant, as the Judgement is the same either way - and THAT'S what I'M worried about!

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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2011, 03:47:46 AM »

Indeed, I've noticed we Orthodox don't tend to focus a whole lot on the End Times.  We place much more emphasis on how we live every day, that way we'll be prepared (when the End does come).  By the way,  the Revelations according to St. John were never included in the Church lectionary.  The entire Apocalypse is so very vague, and can be taken so many different ways -- you can literally read whatever you want into it; and many have done just that (both "Christian" and non-Christian). 
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2011, 05:46:16 AM »

Indeed, I've noticed we Orthodox don't tend to focus a whole lot on the End Times.

You should Jesus talked about it allot!!!
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« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2011, 07:15:59 AM »

His coming won't be today because it's already tomorrow in parts of the western Pacific  Grin.

Yes, I know that's just plain silly. But I've been through enough serious discussions about this over the years.
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2011, 05:14:10 PM »

Why is "I Don't Know" not given as an option?
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« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2011, 05:48:35 PM »

Why is "I Don't Know" not given as an option?

because i don't like "i don't know" so its not valid
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2011, 06:05:25 PM »

Why is "I Don't Know" not given as an option?

because i don't like "i don't know" so its not valid

Just because you do not like something doesn't make it invalid. No one knows the hour upon the Lord's Second Coming, and it's not on us to contemplate on when it is going to happen. Christ wants to see us repenting and working on our salvation.
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2011, 06:08:47 PM »

Why is "I Don't Know" not given as an option?

because i don't like "i don't know" so its not valid

Just because you do not like something doesn't make it invalid. No one knows the hour upon the Lord's Second Coming, and it's not on us to contemplate on when it is going to happen. Christ wants to see us repenting and working on our salvation.

oh crikey read the bible uh??

Jesus talks about knowing the signs all the time and being aware of the seasons, he talks about the end times all the time. Just because someone dont know THE HOUR it dont mean they should be just like....... so thas it then!!

There is whole chunks of text on the end of the world. BIBLICALLY idk isn't valid because Jesus tells people they should know
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2011, 06:17:16 PM »

St. Paul isn't quite clear upon when the anti-Christ will come, for something has to take place which would then allow the anti-Christ to manifest itself; both the Orthodox and RCC agree that this would take place at the end of the world.

But as to when? You can speculate all you want but Orthodoxy isn't concerned so much upon when it's going to happen. It's focus is more on transforming the individual to become more like Christ and to have communion with God.

Plus Mt 24:27 says it will be like a strike of lightning when Christ does come, but yet no man knows the hour.
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« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2011, 06:24:37 PM »

Indeed, I've noticed we Orthodox don't tend to focus a whole lot on the End Times.

I beg to differ. I have a half-remembered story in my mind of an old Greek priest being asked "what is the most important thing affecting your parish in these modern times?" .. his reply was "The Parousia ". It has always been so, and always will be. But you yourself say this:

 
We place much more emphasis on how we live every day, that way we'll be prepared (when the End does come). 

Which is really focusing on the End Times and our preparation for it. I do understand why you say the Orthodox don't focus on the End Times, because in terms of working out when it will be, you're right that we don't. By not doing this we are listening to Jesus when He rebuked the disciples for asking when the kingdom of Israel would be restored, and the Apostles who warn us not to ask after when the end times will come. However, to say we are not focused much on the End Times generally is a little misleading. Everything about Orthodox life and worship is orientated to the final ages of all ages. It's later than you think!

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« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2011, 06:31:50 PM »

St. Paul isn't quite clear upon when the anti-Christ will come, for something has to take place which would then allow the anti-Christ to manifest itself; both the Orthodox and RCC agree that this would take place at the end of the world.

But as to when? You can speculate all you want but Orthodoxy isn't concerned so much upon when it's going to happen. It's focus is more on transforming the individual to become more like Christ and to have communion with God.

Plus Mt 24:27 says it will be like a strike of lightning when Christ does come, but yet no man knows the hour.

Matth 16
Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven, He answered and said to them, "When it is evening you say, '[It will be] fair weather, for the sky is red';"and in the morning, '[It will be] foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.' Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot [discern] the signs of the times.

Jesus said watch and be ready all the time.....why does that mean that you should be unconcerned??? no

whole chunks of Matthew and John and other books is about it where Jesus says ....as it is in the days of Noah, so shall it be when the son of man returns (Matthew 24) the whole of Matthew 23 and 24 and 25 is about it.... the parable of the talents is about it, the virgins parable is about it.....he keeps saying blessed is the man who is ready.....and it will be like this and that at the end times......was Jesus wasting his own words?? ?? ??

NO
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« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2011, 06:38:44 PM »

Jesus said watch and be ready all the time.....why does that mean that you should be unconcerned??? no

Jesus told us to be ready all the time because the End could come at any time. We should be very concerned with this. But by definition that means working out exactly when the End will come is useless, and even harmful, because thinking the end is some time off we might put off our repentance.

The point is, whether the end is in one, three or a thousand years time, we will never know when our own end will be, and that is really the main deadline we should all be working to.
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« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2011, 06:40:18 PM »

Jesus said watch and be ready all the time.....why does that mean that you should be unconcerned??? no

Jesus told us to be ready all the time because the End could come at any time. We should be very concerned with this. But by definition that means working out exactly when the End will come is useless, and even harmful, because thinking the end is some time off we might put off our repentance.

The point is, whether the end is in one, three or a thousand years time, we will never know when our own end will be, and that is really the main deadline we should all be working to.

really?? we should be more concerned with our own end than the plan of God for the end of the world?? whos end is more impotant??
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« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2011, 06:43:35 PM »

But if it's the plan of God, rahter than our own, then we should leave it up to Him for no man knows the hour (Mt. 24:36), even Christ says in that passage that only the Father knows.

And Christ wasn't wasting his words, but acted as more of a warning to those to motivate them into repenting. Yes you have to be ready for when He will come, but we are not called to guess upon when that will happen.
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« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2011, 06:46:22 PM »

But if it's the plan of God, rahter than our own, then we should leave it up to Him for no man knows the hour (Mt. 24:36), even Christ says in that passage that only the Father knows.

And Christ wasn't wasting his words, but acted as more of a warning to those to motivate them into repenting. Yes you have to be ready for when He will come, but we are not called to guess upon when that will happen.

Is that the best you can do?? Just one verse you keep reposting??

I have given you whole chapters in Matthew John and Mark so far, a tonne of text all saying the same thing no not just for a warning to repent, Jesus himself says its so that his servants can be ready and know all the stuff he is telling them.....the fact that you dont know is astonishing?? Have you even read them parables??
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« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2011, 06:49:14 PM »

Jesus said watch and be ready all the time.....why does that mean that you should be unconcerned??? no

Jesus told us to be ready all the time because the End could come at any time. We should be very concerned with this. But by definition that means working out exactly when the End will come is useless, and even harmful, because thinking the end is some time off we might put off our repentance.

The point is, whether the end is in one, three or a thousand years time, we will never know when our own end will be, and that is really the main deadline we should all be working to.

really?? we should be more concerned with our own end than the plan of God for the end of the world?? whos end is more impotant??

Whose end do we have any control over?
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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2011, 06:53:02 PM »

Jesus said watch and be ready all the time.....why does that mean that you should be unconcerned??? no

Jesus told us to be ready all the time because the End could come at any time. We should be very concerned with this. But by definition that means working out exactly when the End will come is useless, and even harmful, because thinking the end is some time off we might put off our repentance.

The point is, whether the end is in one, three or a thousand years time, we will never know when our own end will be, and that is really the main deadline we should all be working to.

really?? we should be more concerned with our own end than the plan of God for the end of the world?? whos end is more impotant??

Whose end do we have any control over?

God has control of yours, so you should be concerned with his and he will take care of yours
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« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2011, 06:53:43 PM »

Yes I have read the eschatological parables; the ten virgins, the fishing net, the rich fool, etc.

But even in these parables you cannot derive from when His Second Coming will occur.

Quote
Elder Cleopa: Christs true Church provides us with a number of apt testimonies which show that God did not entrust this date to anyone, neither to angels, nor to men, nor even to His own Son as man.

Quote
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be ... Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh ... (Mat. 24:36-51)

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If neither the angels in heaven nor the Son of Man Himself as man know the appointed time, how is it possible for it to be known among men? From the words of the Saviour it is understood only that we must be ever vigilant and mindful of our salvation, ever ready for the coming of the Lord, for we know neither the day nor the hour of His coming, nor even the hour of our own end in this life. His appearance will be unexpected, as the Lord forewarned us when he said, Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of Man cometh. (Mat. 25:13)
http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/ec_secondcoming.aspx
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« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2011, 06:55:39 PM »

Jesus said watch and be ready all the time.....why does that mean that you should be unconcerned??? no

Jesus told us to be ready all the time because the End could come at any time. We should be very concerned with this. But by definition that means working out exactly when the End will come is useless, and even harmful, because thinking the end is some time off we might put off our repentance.

The point is, whether the end is in one, three or a thousand years time, we will never know when our own end will be, and that is really the main deadline we should all be working to.

really?? we should be more concerned with our own end than the plan of God for the end of the world?? whos end is more impotant??

Whose end do we have any control over?

God has control of yours, so you should be concerned with his and he will take care of yours

I don't quite understand your meaning: if we are concerned with the end of the world, God will take care of our own personal end?

All the parables of the end times Jesus gives us concern being prepared in terms of moral and virtue. If we are prepared in this respect - i.e. prepared for the Judgment - what other preparation is needed? And how does our preparation for the End in terms of moral and virtue have any connection with when the End will be? Are there certain aspects of Salvation not open to us until nearer the End Times? If not, then what does it matter when it will happen. The only thing I can think of is that if we knew the time, then we could put off our repentance until nearer the time. But Jesus expressly warns against this sort of attitude.
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« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2011, 06:58:15 PM »

Jesus said watch and be ready all the time.....why does that mean that you should be unconcerned??? no

Jesus told us to be ready all the time because the End could come at any time. We should be very concerned with this. But by definition that means working out exactly when the End will come is useless, and even harmful, because thinking the end is some time off we might put off our repentance.

The point is, whether the end is in one, three or a thousand years time, we will never know when our own end will be, and that is really the main deadline we should all be working to.

really?? we should be more concerned with our own end than the plan of God for the end of the world?? whos end is more impotant??

Whose end do we have any control over?

God has control of yours, so you should be concerned with his and he will take care of yours

I don't quite understand your meaning: if we are concerned with the end of the world, God will take care of our own personal end?

yeah. well we dont have control over even our end do we?? no
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« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2011, 07:02:46 PM »

Jesus said watch and be ready all the time.....why does that mean that you should be unconcerned??? no

Jesus told us to be ready all the time because the End could come at any time. We should be very concerned with this. But by definition that means working out exactly when the End will come is useless, and even harmful, because thinking the end is some time off we might put off our repentance.

The point is, whether the end is in one, three or a thousand years time, we will never know when our own end will be, and that is really the main deadline we should all be working to.

really?? we should be more concerned with our own end than the plan of God for the end of the world?? whos end is more impotant??

Whose end do we have any control over?

God has control of yours, so you should be concerned with his and he will take care of yours

I don't quite understand your meaning: if we are concerned with the end of the world, God will take care of our own personal end?

yeah. well we dont have control over even our end do we?? no

We don't have any control over when it will happen, no - none at all. That's the point.
What we do have control over is what our relationship with God is like - now, and therefore what it will be like when our personal end does come.

As for the end of the world, we have no control over either when it will happen or the state of it when the end does come...... except, in how we personally influence those around us. Which leads us back to being concerned with our own end and being prepared for it.
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« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2011, 07:12:16 PM »

Jesus said watch and be ready all the time.....why does that mean that you should be unconcerned??? no

Jesus told us to be ready all the time because the End could come at any time. We should be very concerned with this. But by definition that means working out exactly when the End will come is useless, and even harmful, because thinking the end is some time off we might put off our repentance.

The point is, whether the end is in one, three or a thousand years time, we will never know when our own end will be, and that is really the main deadline we should all be working to.

really?? we should be more concerned with our own end than the plan of God for the end of the world?? whos end is more impotant??

Whose end do we have any control over?

God has control of yours, so you should be concerned with his and he will take care of yours

I don't quite understand your meaning: if we are concerned with the end of the world, God will take care of our own personal end?

yeah. well we dont have control over even our end do we?? no

We don't have any control over when it will happen, no - none at all. That's the point.
What we do have control over is what our relationship with God is like - now, and therefore what it will be like when our personal end does come.

As for the end of the world, we have no control over either when it will happen or the state of it when the end does come...... except, in how we personally influence those around us. Which leads us back to being concerned with our own end and being prepared for it.

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« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2011, 07:35:37 PM »

This is one of those questions that Jesus Himself said He didn't know the answer to.

We could quote Scripture forever: thief in the night and all that.

But I think fundamentally, every Christian and certainly nearly every generation of Christians including Orthodox throughout time thought they were in the last times.

And they all were right.

Poppy, I like your straight talk style and chutzpah to ask difficult questions and call BS on what you think are tepid answers.

So we have two ways of addressing as I can see:

A Poppy like answer, which are probably the best:

Don't worry about, just lead your life as if tomorrow or better yet the next moment will be your last on this planet.

Or unfortunately a more "sophisticated" answer, which are probably least helpful:

Our relationship with God to the degree we have one is apocalyptic by nature: revelatory. We are in the end times. History ended on the Cross. Christ's death perfected, finished, fulfilled, all that came before.

We as Christians, to the degree we have a relationship with God and are honest, are living the shadows of the age which is over and living in the age which has been coming, is coming, and is yet to come.

Christ is here, Christ is coming, Christ is yet to come.

In fact, during the DL, the fulness of time is celebrated as if all has been accomplished, from beginning to the rule of Christ over all and all, because the Orthodox Church is THE Catholic Church, which means every parish celebrating the Divine Liturgy is absolutely "complete". Every saint or holy person from the beginning of time, now, and those to come are present, as are all the myriads of noetic beings, and God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Divine Liturgy is a celebration and partaking in that age to come in its fulness.

Christ has come in His second coming and He has not and He is on His way.

The Divine Liturgy among other things ought to serve as a wake up call (see Gethsemane) about this fact for Orthodox. Orthodox claim to have the fulness of faith, which ain't a list things to believe, but that they truly know through experience what the end of the old age is and what the new age is to be.

They are the Epistles to those living in the age that is fading of this truth. That ought to be very sobering.

Lord have mercy on them! 
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« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2011, 08:10:23 PM »

Sometimes I wonder if you are Fr. Hopko's protege Wink
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« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2011, 08:18:30 PM »

Sometimes I wonder if you are Fr. Hopko's protege Wink

He is my forerunner. //:=)
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« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2011, 11:10:03 PM »

Bring on the trumpets!!!!!

Are you looking forward to it?? Are you scared?? What will you be doing when it happens?? What do you hope your not doing when it happens?? haha...

I'm looking forward to it. I can think of many things I wouldnt want to be doing.  police
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« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2011, 12:55:07 AM »

But if it's the plan of God, rahter than our own, then we should leave it up to Him for no man knows the hour (Mt. 24:36), even Christ says in that passage that only the Father knows.

And Christ wasn't wasting his words, but acted as more of a warning to those to motivate them into repenting. Yes you have to be ready for when He will come, but we are not called to guess upon when that will happen.

Is that the best you can do?? Just one verse you keep reposting??

I have given you whole chapters in Matthew John and Mark so far, a tonne of text all saying the same thing no not just for a warning to repent, Jesus himself says its so that his servants can be ready and know all the stuff he is telling them.....the fact that you dont know is astonishing?? Have you even read them parables??

Why are you, an agnostic explorer according to your profile, so concerned with the chronology?  And what makes you think, having described yourself as such, translates into you actually knowing more Scripture, about Scripture, hermeneutics of Scripture, interpretation of Scripture, etc.?

Besides, as for an exact time, we don't know. That's clear in everything you said. There have always been wars and civil strife and false prophets. Why didn't Christ come again 1000 years ago when there were just as many of such things?  We do not know.

It's as if you got a fortune cookie saying that "Today you will find the love of your life."  That may have been at 8:00 am; there's still plenty of time. You know to look for it but you don't know when it will actually be.  Good grief.
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« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2011, 04:33:50 AM »

But if it's the plan of God, rahter than our own, then we should leave it up to Him for no man knows the hour (Mt. 24:36), even Christ says in that passage that only the Father knows.

And Christ wasn't wasting his words, but acted as more of a warning to those to motivate them into repenting. Yes you have to be ready for when He will come, but we are not called to guess upon when that will happen.

Is that the best you can do?? Just one verse you keep reposting??

I have given you whole chapters in Matthew John and Mark so far, a tonne of text all saying the same thing no not just for a warning to repent, Jesus himself says its so that his servants can be ready and know all the stuff he is telling them.....the fact that you dont know is astonishing?? Have you even read them parables??

Why are you, an agnostic explorer according to your profile, so concerned with the chronology?  And what makes you think, having described yourself as such, translates into you actually knowing more Scripture, about Scripture, hermeneutics of Scripture, interpretation of Scripture, etc.?

Besides, as for an exact time, we don't know. That's clear in everything you said. There have always been wars and civil strife and false prophets. Why didn't Christ come again 1000 years ago when there were just as many of such things?  We do not know.

It's as if you got a fortune cookie saying that "Today you will find the love of your life."  That may have been at 8:00 am; there's still plenty of time. You know to look for it but you don't know when it will actually be.  Good grief.

haha.... don't be sounding so indignant to me!!! Agnostic explorers can be interested in everything and i spend months reading the bible so i do know allot of scripture and also i don't have to interpret it. Just reading it is good enough and seeing how many times in all the gospels Jesus says ....listen to what i am about to tell you.....watch...., be ready...., i am telling you these things because.... he says that just like the people could read the signs in the sky of the weather and the seasons that they should know about the end of the world. Apparently Jesus thinks its rli important.

J.M.C. even agrees with me and he's brilliant about understanding the bible

^_-
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« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2011, 10:02:19 AM »

Hey Poppy, does your avatar mean you're shaking those haters off?  Cheesy 
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« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2011, 10:05:09 AM »

Hey Poppy, does your avatar mean you're shaking those haters off?  Cheesy 

Yeah, you can have it on monday if you like....you tooo can be hater freeeeeeeee!!! lolOl
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