For all us Celtophiles.

[Volnutt]

Father Gabriel Rochelle's series on Celtic Christian spirituality continues with this really good episode on Celtic monasticism and pilgrimage. 

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_monasticism

[FrChris]

Awesome! Someday I will go back to my family's ancestral homeland of Armagh....but of course I've been saying that for 20 years now.

[Volnutt]

Yeah, I need to go to County Cork someday...

[biro]

So do I. Some of my Dad's family are from there. 

[Volnutt]

I have some cousins there as well.

[Andrew Crook]

thanks.. I didn't realize there was a series on this.  For those of us who are Celtic in some fashion, even if it is a corrupted Anglo-Saxon Celt.. learning about this stuff is important to us. 

[Ansgar]

I love the celts 

The history and culture of the celtic people are so fascinating plus I admire them especially the scots since they were one of only two people whom my viking ancestors were affraid of. 

[Volnutt]

  indeed!

[GabrieltheCelt]

Thanks for the link!

Our ancestral homeland is in the Scottish Lowlands, and then later, County Donegal, Ireland.

[Volnutt]

I've got County Down ancestry, neighbor! 

[Irish Hermit]

And the big question....

Was the first Pope of Rome a Celt?

See message 167
at
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13801.msg625178.html#msg625178

[Volnutt]

Wow!

So, if that account is true, who would it have been who converted Bran, Joseph of Arimathea?

[Irish Hermit]

And the big question....

Was the first Pope of Rome a Celt?

See message 167
at
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13801.msg625178.html#msg625178

A bit more from a friend...

According to Ancient British Triads the
Term Ceile-De or Culdee was applied to
Joseph of Arimathea and his 12 Companions
and the Church Established was called the
Culdee Church the use of the Term Christian
did not happen until much later.

Claudia & Linus the children of Caradoc were
converted to the faith before being taken
off into Capitivity in Rome.The person who
converted them could have been either
Simon Zelotes or Aristobolus.
The rest of the Silurian Family were converted
in Rome. The children of Claudia and Pudens
were instructed in the Faith by St.Paul himself,
so it is reasonable to assume that St.Paul
instructed Bran,Caradoc, Gladys(Cardoc's Sister)
and Eurgen(Caradoc's other daughter).

[Volnutt]

Why would Joseph seek out Gentiles to evangelize in the first place though? Doesn't Acts indicate they only preached to Jews at this point? Given that Joseph didn't tell them about the word "Christian," his arrival in Britain must have very, very early.

[Shanghaiski]

Why would Joseph seek out Gentiles to evangelize in the first place though? Doesn't Acts indicate they only preached to Jews at this point? Given that Joseph didn't tell them about the word "Christian," his arrival in Britain must have very, very early.

The term "Christian" was not universal until the second century, AFAIK. In the Lives of the Apostles, they preached to both Jews and Gentiles.

[Volnutt]

Why would Joseph seek out Gentiles to evangelize in the first place though? Doesn't Acts indicate they only preached to Jews at this point? Given that Joseph didn't tell them about the word "Christian," his arrival in Britain must have very, very early.

The term "Christian" was not universal until the second century, AFAIK.

Ok.

In the Lives of the Apostles, they preached to both Jews and Gentiles.

Yes, but not at first (Acts 11:18-20). I thought the tradition was that Joseph of Arimathea went to Britain like right after the Resurrection because the Sanhedrin was going to have him killed.

[Shanghaiski]

Why would Joseph seek out Gentiles to evangelize in the first place though? Doesn't Acts indicate they only preached to Jews at this point? Given that Joseph didn't tell them about the word "Christian," his arrival in Britain must have very, very early.

The term "Christian" was not universal until the second century, AFAIK.

Ok.

In the Lives of the Apostles, they preached to both Jews and Gentiles.

Yes, but not at first (Acts 11:18-20). I thought the tradition was that Joseph of Arimathea went to Britain like right after the Resurrection because the Sanhedrin was going to have him killed.

And why would he then have had a problem evangelizing Gentiles? Other missionaries at the time were doing it, to, even in the Jerusalem Church under St. James.

[Volnutt]

I guess it depends on what contact he had with the Apostles at the time. Before Cornelius, it doesn't look like preaching to Gentiles ever crossed anyone's mind.

[Volnutt]

The conclusion of the series. http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_christianity_part_3

If anyone has never seen the Ring of Kerry, here is what it looks like .

[Riddikulus]

Father Gabriel Rochelle's series on Celtic Christian spirituality continues with this really good episode on Celtic monasticism and pilgrimage. 

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_monasticism

That's part 2 - how does this technologically hampered half-blood Celt find part 1?

[Volnutt]

Father Gabriel Rochelle's series on Celtic Christian spirituality continues with this really good episode on Celtic monasticism and pilgrimage. 

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_monasticism

That's part 2 - how does this technologically hampered half-blood Celt find part 1?

You just need to click on the index link above the name. http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_christianity_part_1

[Riddikulus]

Thanks Volnutt.

[Volnutt]

yw

[Volnutt]

This episode is awesome http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_christianity_part_5

I thought the series was over.

[Riddikulus]

Just spent the last couple of days (after a very busy, wonderful Christmas Day) blobbing out and watching celtic documentaries on youtube.   And loving it! 

[Volnutt]

Sweet! 

The podcast is up to episode 13 or so now, btw.

[Riddikulus]

Oh my goodness. I need to get onto that! 

[biro]

Awesome! Someday I will go back to my family's ancestral homeland of Armagh....but of course I've been saying that for 20 years now.

My Dad's family is from Cork and Killarney. I've got to go someday. 

[orthonorm]

If you have no romantic notions about "celtic" heritage because you rolled out of the potato patch recently enough to know better, is this still any good?

[Riddikulus]

If you have no romantic notions about "celtic" heritage because you rolled out of the potato patch recently enough to know better, is this still any good?

I don't think that we should have romantic notions about any heritage. One can only have a real appreciation of the past if one realises that there is often something very wrong with who our ancestors were. But no one group is all bad, no one group is all good. Would I rather have Celtic heritage or Italian (Roman)? Germanic or Asian? Not much in any of it, as far as I can tell. It's just that mine is Anglo/Celt.

What we know of the Celts; the bad I can accept, the good I can appreciate, but romanticism is strictly for the birds! 

[Schultz]

I used to identify as a "celtophile" but the older I get and the more I read, that's like calling myself an "Yugoslavphile".

Pan-Celtic identity is a modern construct.

[orthonorm]

I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".

[biro]

If you have no romantic notions about "celtic" heritage because you rolled out of the potato patch recently enough to know better, is this still any good?

Of course. I know the difference between reality and fiction, and between one culture and another. But why not enjoy culture and travel? I don't think life is like a novel, but I can still see more of it than just my own immediate area.

[orthonorm]

I used to identify as a "celtophile" but the older I get and the more I read, that's like calling myself an "Yugoslavphile".

Pan-Celtic identity is a modern construct.

Too bad you didn't come to this realization earlier in life, you might have been able to sport this to the HS Prom:

[biro]

I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".

 

Those could be fightin' words, mister, but it's St. Stephen's Day, so I won't.

[orthonorm]

I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".

 

Those could be fightin' words, mister, but it's St. Stephen's Day, so I won't.

So I take it you are far from the patch?

[biro]

And I take it you're pushing it.

Don't.

[Riddikulus]

I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".

Oh, I see. Yes, that would be a response, I suppose, reaching for a sense of identity in a new country with so many identities. Though, I do see much "pride" in being Celtic in Celtic countries. Then, I suppose the identity of people in those countries has been under attack for many centuries. I can blame my father's ancestors for that!  

My personal ancestral history is fascinating to me, but I do prefer realism every time.

[Volnutt]

If you have no romantic notions about "celtic" heritage because you rolled out of the potato patch recently enough to know better, is this still any good?

I think so. Good biographies of Saints, he goes into the Pelagian controversy, the making of insular manuscripts, etc.

[Schultz]

I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".

Oh, I see. Yes, that would be a response, I suppose, reaching for a sense of identity in a new country with so many identities. Though, I do see much "pride" in being Celtic in Celtic countries. Then, I suppose the identity of people in those countries has been under attack for many centuries. I can blame my father's ancestors for that!  

My personal ancestral history is fascinating to me, but I do prefer realism every time.

No, what you see is pride in being Irish, Scottish, Cornish, Welsh, Manx or Breton. 

The idea of being "Celtic" is a diasporic one, and a decidedly American one, at that.

[Riddikulus]

I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".

Oh, I see. Yes, that would be a response, I suppose, reaching for a sense of identity in a new country with so many identities. Though, I do see much "pride" in being Celtic in Celtic countries. Then, I suppose the identity of people in those countries has been under attack for many centuries. I can blame my father's ancestors for that!  

My personal ancestral history is fascinating to me, but I do prefer realism every time.

No, what you see is pride in being Irish, Scottish, Cornish, Welsh, Manx or Breton.  

The idea of being "Celtic" is a diasporic one, and a decidedly American one, at that.

I've never read any Americans on the subject, but certainly have read the British opinion.   The idea of being Celtic is much older than any American, seeing as the ancient Greeks coined the term; Keltoi. I'm really not sure what you are getting at. All the areas you mention are vestigially Celtic; linked lingually if not so much tribally these days.

My main area of interest is the Ancient Celts, including those who resided in England before and including the Roman period; brother tribes to those in mainland Europe.

[Schultz]

Try telling a Highland Scot from, say, Ft William, that he's a "Celt" as to a Scot and he will laugh at you.  Tell a Cornishman that about some mythical pan-Celtic identity and he will wonder what you've been smoking.  Acting like the people of the so-called Celtic Fringe are alike in all but the mist vague ways is like acting the people of the Powhatan Confederacy  of Virginia are the same as the Lakota Sioux of the Northern Plains.  The term 'Celtic' as used now has as much ethnographic weight as 'Indian' does. 

And I write this as a proud descendant of the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh people.  I also wear a July as an everyday garment and did so daily for almost two years.  The term 'Celtic' as used by most people to mean some homogeneous cultural mores if the people who populated the aforementioned Celtic Fringe is meaningless.  You might as well say the Druids built Stonehenge.

[Volnutt]

I see what you're saying and points well taken. I'm not sure that is what Fr. Rochelle is trying to do here though, I think he's looking for common threads among the groups just as although there are many differences between the Powhattan and the Lakota, there are also commonalities such that an anthropological study of "Indians" can be a meaningful exercise.

[Riddikulus]

I see what you're saying and points well taken. I'm not sure that is what Fr. Rochelle is trying to do here though, I think he's looking for common threads among the groups just as although there are many differences between the Powhattan and the Lakota, there are also commonalities such that an anthropological study of "Indians" can be a meaningful exercise.

No, I don't believe Fr Rochelle is doing that, either; if I understand what Shultz is getting at.  

Fr Rochelle is reaching back in time to a people who are connected - the Celts; who the Romans called Gauls and Britons, Picts and Hibernians, who referred to themselves tribally, until they were thoroughly absorbed as Romans; though not all were. They never referred to themselves as Celts. The Greeks called them Keltoi, and identified them as a specific and diverse people linked by language and customs. And their survivors are still alive and well in Wales, Cornwall, Breton, Scotland and Ireland; where their language survives.  

From what I have seen in Britain, there is still an understanding of some connection amongst these different "tribes". National identity aside, there are enough historical writers making the point regarding the origins of the people of Britain, and if they have an interest in the historty of the Ancients to be aware of it, they do consider themselves the remnants of an ancient "Celtic nationhood".

[dcommini]

Try telling a Highland Scot from, say, Ft William, that he's a "Celt" as to a Scot and he will laugh at you.  Tell a Cornishman that about some mythical pan-Celtic identity and he will wonder what you've been smoking.  Acting like the people of the so-called Celtic Fringe are alike in all but the mist vague ways is like acting the people of the Powhatan Confederacy  of Virginia are the same as the Lakota Sioux of the Northern Plains.  The term 'Celtic' as used now has as much ethnographic weight as 'Indian' does. 

And I write this as a proud descendant of the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh people.  I also wear a July as an everyday garment and did so daily for almost two years.  The term 'Celtic' as used by most people to mean some homogeneous cultural mores if the people who populated the aforementioned Celtic Fringe is meaningless.  You might as well say the Druids built Stonehenge.

First of all... The Druids didn't build Stonehenge? But how else could some ancient neolithic race have the knowledge to move those stones and put them in those positions with out the help of the Druids? 

And second... when you say that you "wear a July as an everyday garment" do you mean a Kilt? Because I googled July just to see if I could find any garment under that name just to be sure that was a typo.

[Schultz]

Try telling a Highland Scot from, say, Ft William, that he's a "Celt" as to a Scot and he will laugh at you.  Tell a Cornishman that about some mythical pan-Celtic identity and he will wonder what you've been smoking.  Acting like the people of the so-called Celtic Fringe are alike in all but the mist vague ways is like acting the people of the Powhatan Confederacy  of Virginia are the same as the Lakota Sioux of the Northern Plains.  The term 'Celtic' as used now has as much ethnographic weight as 'Indian' does. 

And I write this as a proud descendant of the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh people.  I also wear a July as an everyday garment and did so daily for almost two years.  The term 'Celtic' as used by most people to mean some homogeneous cultural mores if the people who populated the aforementioned Celtic Fringe is meaningless.  You might as well say the Druids built Stonehenge.

First of all... The Druids didn't build Stonehenge? But how else could some ancient neolithic race have the knowledge to move those stones and put them in those positions with out the help of the Druids? 

And second... when you say that you "wear a July as an everyday garment" do you mean a Kilt? Because I googled July just to see if I could find any garment under that name just to be sure that was a typo.

Blast!  Yes I meant kilt.  Bloody autocorrect!

[dcommini]

Try telling a Highland Scot from, say, Ft William, that he's a "Celt" as to a Scot and he will laugh at you.  Tell a Cornishman that about some mythical pan-Celtic identity and he will wonder what you've been smoking.  Acting like the people of the so-called Celtic Fringe are alike in all but the mist vague ways is like acting the people of the Powhatan Confederacy  of Virginia are the same as the Lakota Sioux of the Northern Plains.  The term 'Celtic' as used now has as much ethnographic weight as 'Indian' does. 

And I write this as a proud descendant of the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh people.  I also wear a July as an everyday garment and did so daily for almost two years.  The term 'Celtic' as used by most people to mean some homogeneous cultural mores if the people who populated the aforementioned Celtic Fringe is meaningless.  You might as well say the Druids built Stonehenge.

First of all... The Druids didn't build Stonehenge? But how else could some ancient neolithic race have the knowledge to move those stones and put them in those positions with out the help of the Druids? 

And second... when you say that you "wear a July as an everyday garment" do you mean a Kilt? Because I googled July just to see if I could find any garment under that name just to be sure that was a typo.

Blast!  Yes I meant kilt.  Bloody autocorrect!

Just curious, ever worn it to church?

[Schultz]

Try telling a Highland Scot from, say, Ft William, that he's a "Celt" as to a Scot and he will laugh at you.  Tell a Cornishman that about some mythical pan-Celtic identity and he will wonder what you've been smoking.  Acting like the people of the so-called Celtic Fringe are alike in all but the mist vague ways is like acting the people of the Powhatan Confederacy  of Virginia are the same as the Lakota Sioux of the Northern Plains.  The term 'Celtic' as used now has as much ethnographic weight as 'Indian' does. 

And I write this as a proud descendant of the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh people.  I also wear a July as an everyday garment and did so daily for almost two years.  The term 'Celtic' as used by most people to mean some homogeneous cultural mores if the people who populated the aforementioned Celtic Fringe is meaningless.  You might as well say the Druids built Stonehenge.

First of all... The Druids didn't build Stonehenge? But how else could some ancient neolithic race have the knowledge to move those stones and put them in those positions with out the help of the Druids? 

And second... when you say that you "wear a July as an everyday garment" do you mean a Kilt? Because I googled July just to see if I could find any garment under that name just to be sure that was a typo.

Blast!  Yes I meant kilt.  Bloody autocorrect!

Just curious, ever worn it to church?

I stopped wearing them full time before I became Orthodox, but I wore them to my Greek Catholic church.  Everyone loved it.

[dcommini]

I stopped wearing them full time before I became Orthodox, but I wore them to my Greek Catholic church.  Everyone loved it.

nice. my first priest wanted me to wear mine to church one day to get a point across to the parishoners about being more accepting. this was a Greek parish. I never did though... well not to an Orthodox parish

[Schultz]

I stopped wearing them full time before I became Orthodox, but I wore them to my Greek Catholic church.  Everyone loved it.

nice. my first priest wanted me to wear mine to church one day to get a point across to the parishoners about being more accepting. this was a Greek parish. I never did though... well not to an Orthodox parish

When I wore one to the Greek festival at the Cathedral in Baltimore, one of the parishoners, a rather swarthy, charming fellow, came up to me, embraced me Greek style and said, "Ah, you must be Greek!"

He then proceeded to tell us about the "beautiful mousaka" downstairs.

Hard for Greeks to say anything when they wear those little skirts themselves.

[dcommini]

I stopped wearing them full time before I became Orthodox, but I wore them to my Greek Catholic church.  Everyone loved it.

nice. my first priest wanted me to wear mine to church one day to get a point across to the parishoners about being more accepting. this was a Greek parish. I never did though... well not to an Orthodox parish

When I wore one to the Greek festival at the Cathedral in Baltimore, one of the parishoners, a rather swarthy, charming fellow, came up to me, embraced me Greek style and said, "Ah, you must be Greek!"

He then proceeded to tell us about the "beautiful mousaka" downstairs.

Hard for Greeks to say anything when they wear those little skirts themselves.

Funny, and true! I doubt those at my Antiochian parish would be very accepting of my wearing a kilt to church. Outside of the church, not a problem.

[recent convert]

I stopped wearing them full time before I became Orthodox, but I wore them to my Greek Catholic church.  Everyone loved it.

nice. my first priest wanted me to wear mine to church one day to get a point across to the parishoners about being more accepting. this was a Greek parish. I never did though... well not to an Orthodox parish

When I wore one to the Greek festival at the Cathedral in Baltimore, one of the parishoners, a rather swarthy, charming fellow, came up to me, embraced me Greek style and said, "Ah, you must be Greek!"

He then proceeded to tell us about the "beautiful mousaka" downstairs.

Hard for Greeks to say anything when they wear those little skirts themselves.

Funny, and true! I doubt those at my Antiochian parish would be very accepting of my wearing a kilt to church. Outside of the church, not a problem.

A subdeacon of Scots-Irish ancestry wore one in our parish on Sunday of Orthodoxy (concealed when serving,  of course,but later carrying a St. Patrick icon). No one seemed to pay any matter of mind & for me being Arabic & Welsh, an expression of another ancestry.

[Irish Melkite]

kilt -> july - autocorrect? 

Ok, for those from Donegal and those from Cork, need to find out if there are any long-lost relatives hiding on here ...

where in Donegal ??

Anyone from Newtoncunningham, St Johnstown, Monfad, or Murlough,

where in Cork?

How about Rathcormac or Lisgoold?

Many years,

Neil

[Volnutt]

Bantry

[Riddikulus]

If anyone is interested. The BBC have a series, "A history of Celtic Britain", with Scottish presenter Neil Oliver.

[Cognomen]

A subdeacon of Scots-Irish ancestry wore one in our parish on Sunday of Orthodoxy (concealed when serving,  of course,but later carrying a St. Patrick icon).

Of course most Scots-Irish were not Highlanders, and thus most never wore kilts.  I guess figuring out that they're not Irish is a start though.

[akimori makoto]

I stopped wearing them full time before I became Orthodox, but I wore them to my Greek Catholic church.  Everyone loved it.

nice. my first priest wanted me to wear mine to church one day to get a point across to the parishoners about being more accepting. this was a Greek parish. I never did though... well not to an Orthodox parish

When I wore one to the Greek festival at the Cathedral in Baltimore, one of the parishoners, a rather swarthy, charming fellow, came up to me, embraced me Greek style and said, "Ah, you must be Greek!"

He then proceeded to tell us about the "beautiful mousaka" downstairs.

Hard for Greeks to say anything when they wear those little skirts themselves.

I wouldn't put it past them.

[Volnutt]

If anyone is interested. The BBC have a series, "A history of Celtic Britain", with Scottish presenter Neil Oliver.

Thanks! Btw, the last episode of the podcast series was recently posted.

[Irish Melkite]

And second... when you say that you "wear a July as an everyday garment" do you mean a Kilt? Because I googled July just to see if I could find any garment under that name just to be sure that was a typo.

Blast!  Yes I meant kilt.  Bloody autocorrect!

kilt -> july - autocorrect?  Huh

Ok, I couldn't let this go and finally figured it out. Either Schultz has fat fingers and doesn't want to admit it or his autocorrect is correcting on the basis of the adjacent keys, j and u for k and i. Any bets to be had on which it was?

Many years,

Neil (where's a smirk emoticon when you need one?)

[Schultz]

And second... when you say that you "wear a July as an everyday garment" do you mean a Kilt? Because I googled July just to see if I could find any garment under that name just to be sure that was a typo.

Blast!  Yes I meant kilt.  Bloody autocorrect!

kilt -> july - autocorrect?  Huh

Ok, I couldn't let this go and finally figured it out. Either Schultz has fat fingers and doesn't want to admit it or his autocorrect is correcting on the basis of the adjacent keys, j and u for k and i. Any bets to be had on which it was?

Many years,

Neil (where's a smirk emoticon when you need one?)

I DO NOT HAVE FAT FINGERS!

[Jason.Wike]

A subdeacon of Scots-Irish ancestry wore one in our parish on Sunday of Orthodoxy (concealed when serving,  of course,but later carrying a St. Patrick icon).

Of course most Scots-Irish were not Highlanders, and thus most never wore kilts.  I guess figuring out that they're not Irish is a start though.

A lot of what is now the "Lowlands" used to be the Highlands though. People used to speak Gaelic even in Galloway. Back when I used to read the Scotsman it was always depressing to hear of people from places with thoroughly Gaelic names, who had Gaelic names themselves like "Iain Duncan" (just a made up example), who said Gaelic was "foreign" and they shouldn't be having any Gaelic medium education in their towns.

[biro]

The website Learn Gaelic is for Scots Gaelic. I think they also have a site for Irish. 

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