Author Topic: For all us Celtophiles.  (Read 2719 times)

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Offline Volnutt

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For all us Celtophiles.
« on: August 19, 2011, 06:10:16 AM »
Father Gabriel Rochelle's series on Celtic Christian spirituality continues with this really good episode on Celtic monasticism and pilgrimage.  ;D

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_monasticism

Offline FrChris

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2011, 07:32:49 AM »
Awesome! Someday I will go back to my family's ancestral homeland of Armagh....but of course I've been saying that for 20 years now.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2011, 07:42:11 PM »
Yeah, I need to go to County Cork someday...

Offline biro

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2011, 11:32:34 PM »
So do I. Some of my Dad's family are from there.  :)

Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2011, 11:35:52 PM »
I have some cousins there as well.

Offline Andrew Crook

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2011, 01:03:28 AM »
thanks.. I didn't realize there was a series on this.  For those of us who are Celtic in some fashion, even if it is a corrupted Anglo-Saxon Celt.. learning about this stuff is important to us.  ;D :)
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Offline Ansgar

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2011, 05:38:23 AM »
I love the celts  :)

The history and culture of the celtic people are so fascinating plus I admire them especially the scots since they were one of only two people whom my viking ancestors were affraid of.  ;)
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2011, 06:19:02 AM »
 :laugh: indeed!

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2011, 11:35:54 AM »
Thanks for the link! :)

Our ancestral homeland is in the Scottish Lowlands, and then later, County Donegal, Ireland.
"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2011, 08:31:20 PM »
I've got County Down ancestry, neighbor!  ;D

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2011, 03:59:36 AM »
And the big question....

Was the first Pope of Rome a Celt?

See message 167
at
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13801.msg625178.html#msg625178
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 04:01:33 AM by Irish Hermit »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2011, 06:36:32 AM »
Wow!

So, if that account is true, who would it have been who converted Bran, Joseph of Arimathea?

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2011, 04:29:16 AM »
And the big question....

Was the first Pope of Rome a Celt?

See message 167
at
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13801.msg625178.html#msg625178

A bit more from a friend...

According to Ancient British Triads the
Term Ceile-De or Culdee was applied to
Joseph of Arimathea and his 12 Companions
and the Church Established was called the
Culdee Church the use of the Term Christian
did not happen until much later.

Claudia & Linus the children of Caradoc were
converted to the faith before being taken
off into Capitivity in Rome.The person who
converted them could have been either
Simon Zelotes or Aristobolus.
The rest of the Silurian Family were converted
in Rome. The children of Claudia and Pudens
were instructed in the Faith by St.Paul himself,
so it is reasonable to assume that St.Paul
instructed Bran,Caradoc, Gladys(Cardoc's Sister)
and Eurgen(Caradoc's other daughter).



Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2011, 04:58:17 AM »
Why would Joseph seek out Gentiles to evangelize in the first place though? Doesn't Acts indicate they only preached to Jews at this point? Given that Joseph didn't tell them about the word "Christian," his arrival in Britain must have very, very early.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 04:59:09 AM by Volnutt »

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2011, 07:55:32 AM »
Why would Joseph seek out Gentiles to evangelize in the first place though? Doesn't Acts indicate they only preached to Jews at this point? Given that Joseph didn't tell them about the word "Christian," his arrival in Britain must have very, very early.

The term "Christian" was not universal until the second century, AFAIK. In the Lives of the Apostles, they preached to both Jews and Gentiles.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2011, 08:10:02 AM »
Why would Joseph seek out Gentiles to evangelize in the first place though? Doesn't Acts indicate they only preached to Jews at this point? Given that Joseph didn't tell them about the word "Christian," his arrival in Britain must have very, very early.

The term "Christian" was not universal until the second century, AFAIK.
Ok.

In the Lives of the Apostles, they preached to both Jews and Gentiles.
Yes, but not at first (Acts 11:18-20). I thought the tradition was that Joseph of Arimathea went to Britain like right after the Resurrection because the Sanhedrin was going to have him killed.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2011, 08:53:47 AM »
Why would Joseph seek out Gentiles to evangelize in the first place though? Doesn't Acts indicate they only preached to Jews at this point? Given that Joseph didn't tell them about the word "Christian," his arrival in Britain must have very, very early.

The term "Christian" was not universal until the second century, AFAIK.
Ok.

In the Lives of the Apostles, they preached to both Jews and Gentiles.
Yes, but not at first (Acts 11:18-20). I thought the tradition was that Joseph of Arimathea went to Britain like right after the Resurrection because the Sanhedrin was going to have him killed.

And why would he then have had a problem evangelizing Gentiles? Other missionaries at the time were doing it, to, even in the Jerusalem Church under St. James.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2011, 08:55:38 AM »
I guess it depends on what contact he had with the Apostles at the time. Before Cornelius, it doesn't look like preaching to Gentiles ever crossed anyone's mind.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2011, 10:02:58 PM »
The conclusion of the series. http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_christianity_part_3

If anyone has never seen the Ring of Kerry, here is what it looks like :).


Offline Riddikulus

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2011, 02:10:44 AM »
Father Gabriel Rochelle's series on Celtic Christian spirituality continues with this really good episode on Celtic monasticism and pilgrimage.  ;D

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_monasticism

That's part 2 - how does this technologically hampered half-blood Celt find part 1?
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2011, 02:47:55 AM »
Father Gabriel Rochelle's series on Celtic Christian spirituality continues with this really good episode on Celtic monasticism and pilgrimage.  ;D

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_monasticism

That's part 2 - how does this technologically hampered half-blood Celt find part 1?
You just need to click on the index link above the name. http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_christianity_part_1

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2011, 03:54:22 AM »
Thanks Volnutt.
I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

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Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2011, 04:14:02 AM »
yw

Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2011, 03:01:20 AM »
This episode is awesome http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/highdesert/celtic_christianity_part_5

I thought the series was over.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 03:02:34 AM by Volnutt »

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2011, 03:42:45 AM »
Just spent the last couple of days (after a very busy, wonderful Christmas Day) blobbing out and watching celtic documentaries on youtube.   And loving it!  ;D
I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)

Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2011, 03:44:12 AM »
Sweet!  ;D

The podcast is up to episode 13 or so now, btw.

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2011, 05:05:11 AM »
Oh my goodness. I need to get onto that!  :laugh:
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Offline biro

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2011, 06:49:21 PM »
Awesome! Someday I will go back to my family's ancestral homeland of Armagh....but of course I've been saying that for 20 years now.

My Dad's family is from Cork and Killarney. I've got to go someday.  :)

Offline orthonorm

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2011, 07:04:44 PM »
If you have no romantic notions about "celtic" heritage because you rolled out of the potato patch recently enough to know better, is this still any good?
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2011, 07:18:52 PM »
If you have no romantic notions about "celtic" heritage because you rolled out of the potato patch recently enough to know better, is this still any good?

I don't think that we should have romantic notions about any heritage. One can only have a real appreciation of the past if one realises that there is often something very wrong with who our ancestors were. But no one group is all bad, no one group is all good. Would I rather have Celtic heritage or Italian (Roman)? Germanic or Asian? Not much in any of it, as far as I can tell. It's just that mine is Anglo/Celt.

What we know of the Celts; the bad I can accept, the good I can appreciate, but romanticism is strictly for the birds!  ;)
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Offline Schultz

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2011, 07:33:18 PM »
I used to identify as a "celtophile" but the older I get and the more I read, that's like calling myself an "Yugoslavphile".

Pan-Celtic identity is a modern construct.
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline orthonorm

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2011, 07:34:59 PM »
I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".

« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 07:35:14 PM by orthonorm »
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Offline biro

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2011, 07:35:23 PM »
If you have no romantic notions about "celtic" heritage because you rolled out of the potato patch recently enough to know better, is this still any good?

Of course. I know the difference between reality and fiction, and between one culture and another. But why not enjoy culture and travel? I don't think life is like a novel, but I can still see more of it than just my own immediate area.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2011, 07:36:51 PM »
I used to identify as a "celtophile" but the older I get and the more I read, that's like calling myself an "Yugoslavphile".

Pan-Celtic identity is a modern construct.

Too bad you didn't come to this realization earlier in life, you might have been able to sport this to the HS Prom:



« Last Edit: December 27, 2011, 07:41:16 PM by orthonorm »
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Offline biro

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2011, 07:37:03 PM »
I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".



 ::)

Those could be fightin' words, mister, but it's St. Stephen's Day, so I won't.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2011, 07:38:04 PM »
I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".



 ::)

Those could be fightin' words, mister, but it's St. Stephen's Day, so I won't.

So I take it you are far from the patch?
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Offline biro

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2011, 07:38:35 PM »
And I take it you're pushing it.

Don't.

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2011, 07:45:02 PM »
I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".



Oh, I see. Yes, that would be a response, I suppose, reaching for a sense of identity in a new country with so many identities. Though, I do see much "pride" in being Celtic in Celtic countries. Then, I suppose the identity of people in those countries has been under attack for many centuries. I can blame my father's ancestors for that!  :laugh:

My personal ancestral history is fascinating to me, but I do prefer realism every time.
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Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)

Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2011, 08:07:37 PM »
If you have no romantic notions about "celtic" heritage because you rolled out of the potato patch recently enough to know better, is this still any good?
I think so. Good biographies of Saints, he goes into the Pelagian controversy, the making of insular manuscripts, etc.

Offline Schultz

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2011, 12:16:46 AM »
I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".



Oh, I see. Yes, that would be a response, I suppose, reaching for a sense of identity in a new country with so many identities. Though, I do see much "pride" in being Celtic in Celtic countries. Then, I suppose the identity of people in those countries has been under attack for many centuries. I can blame my father's ancestors for that!  :laugh:

My personal ancestral history is fascinating to me, but I do prefer realism every time.

No, what you see is pride in being Irish, Scottish, Cornish, Welsh, Manx or Breton. 

The idea of being "Celtic" is a diasporic one, and a decidedly American one, at that.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2011, 12:27:28 AM »
I just find that in the States the farther you're away from Potato Patch, the more "pride" you have being from such a place.

Those that ain't so far away, ain't that "proud".



Oh, I see. Yes, that would be a response, I suppose, reaching for a sense of identity in a new country with so many identities. Though, I do see much "pride" in being Celtic in Celtic countries. Then, I suppose the identity of people in those countries has been under attack for many centuries. I can blame my father's ancestors for that!  :laugh:

My personal ancestral history is fascinating to me, but I do prefer realism every time.

No, what you see is pride in being Irish, Scottish, Cornish, Welsh, Manx or Breton.  

The idea of being "Celtic" is a diasporic one, and a decidedly American one, at that.

I've never read any Americans on the subject, but certainly have read the British opinion.  :) The idea of being Celtic is much older than any American, seeing as the ancient Greeks coined the term; Keltoi. I'm really not sure what you are getting at. All the areas you mention are vestigially Celtic; linked lingually if not so much tribally these days.

My main area of interest is the Ancient Celts, including those who resided in England before and including the Roman period; brother tribes to those in mainland Europe.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 12:46:06 AM by Riddikulus »
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Offline Schultz

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2011, 01:21:26 AM »
Try telling a Highland Scot from, say, Ft William, that he's a "Celt" as to a Scot and he will laugh at you.  Tell a Cornishman that about some mythical pan-Celtic identity and he will wonder what you've been smoking.  Acting like the people of the so-called Celtic Fringe are alike in all but the mist vague ways is like acting the people of the Powhatan Confederacy  of Virginia are the same as the Lakota Sioux of the Northern Plains.  The term 'Celtic' as used now has as much ethnographic weight as 'Indian' does. 

And I write this as a proud descendant of the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh people.  I also wear a July as an everyday garment and did so daily for almost two years.  The term 'Celtic' as used by most people to mean some homogeneous cultural mores if the people who populated the aforementioned Celtic Fringe is meaningless.  You might as well say the Druids built Stonehenge.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2011, 01:40:20 AM »
I see what you're saying and points well taken. I'm not sure that is what Fr. Rochelle is trying to do here though, I think he's looking for common threads among the groups just as although there are many differences between the Powhattan and the Lakota, there are also commonalities such that an anthropological study of "Indians" can be a meaningful exercise.

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2011, 02:02:19 AM »
I see what you're saying and points well taken. I'm not sure that is what Fr. Rochelle is trying to do here though, I think he's looking for common threads among the groups just as although there are many differences between the Powhattan and the Lakota, there are also commonalities such that an anthropological study of "Indians" can be a meaningful exercise.

No, I don't believe Fr Rochelle is doing that, either; if I understand what Shultz is getting at.  :laugh:

Fr Rochelle is reaching back in time to a people who are connected - the Celts; who the Romans called Gauls and Britons, Picts and Hibernians, who referred to themselves tribally, until they were thoroughly absorbed as Romans; though not all were. They never referred to themselves as Celts. The Greeks called them Keltoi, and identified them as a specific and diverse people linked by language and customs. And their survivors are still alive and well in Wales, Cornwall, Breton, Scotland and Ireland; where their language survives.  

From what I have seen in Britain, there is still an understanding of some connection amongst these different "tribes". National identity aside, there are enough historical writers making the point regarding the origins of the people of Britain, and if they have an interest in the historty of the Ancients to be aware of it, they do consider themselves the remnants of an ancient "Celtic nationhood".

« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 02:04:03 AM by Riddikulus »
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Offline dcommini

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Re: For all us Celtophiles.
« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2011, 08:24:35 AM »
Try telling a Highland Scot from, say, Ft William, that he's a "Celt" as to a Scot and he will laugh at you.  Tell a Cornishman that about some mythical pan-Celtic identity and he will wonder what you've been smoking.  Acting like the people of the so-called Celtic Fringe are alike in all but the mist vague ways is like acting the people of the Powhatan Confederacy  of Virginia are the same as the Lakota Sioux of the Northern Plains.  The term 'Celtic' as used now has as much ethnographic weight as 'Indian' does. 

And I write this as a proud descendant of the Irish, Scottish, and Welsh people.  I also wear a July as an everyday garment and did so daily for almost two years.  The term 'Celtic' as used by most people to mean some homogeneous cultural mores if the people who populated the aforementioned Celtic Fringe is meaningless.  You might as well say the Druids built Stonehenge.

First of all... The Druids didn't build Stonehenge? :o But how else could some ancient neolithic race have the knowledge to move those stones and put them in those positions with out the help of the Druids?  ??? ??? ??? :P

And second... when you say that you "wear a July as an everyday garment" do you mean a Kilt? Because I googled July just to see if I could find any garment under that name just to be sure that was a typo.
N/OblSB

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