Where do the Hyperdox live?

[Agabus]

I ask this because I run into them on the Internet with some frequency, but in real life I don't know anyone like that. I realize that my experience up to this point is limited to a handful of churches, but proportionally speaking if churches were as full of the Hyperdox as the Internet is I would surely know at least one of them.

But yet no matter how hard I look I can't find anyone who can off-the-cuff quote canons and ecumenical anathemas. Most Orthodox people I know just want to talk about normal human stuff like sports and kids and maybe politics. I suppose I should correct them and tell them to properly fixate on fasting and hating Catholics, but everything seems so pleasant as is.

[Tallitot]

But if all we talked about here was kids, sports and stuff what would be the point?

[biro]

I think Hyperdox is that kind of chocolate cookie... 

[Achronos]

If it weren't for some certain circumstances in my life, and after my baptism, I would be hyperdox. I don't know I think Orthodoxy is such a beautiful faith that you can swim in an endless sea of knowledge and it doesn't bore me in the least. I'd like to be as knowledgable in Orthodoxy as our fellow Librarian, maybe one day.

[orthonorm]

PM me, I'll send you my address.

[Tallitot]

they move silently among you. They say little....but they watch

[FrChris]

I ask this because I run into them on the Internet with some frequency, but in real life I don't know anyone like that. I realize that my experience up to this point is limited to a handful of churches, but proportionally speaking if churches were as full of the Hyperdox as the Internet is I would surely know at least one of them.

But yet no matter how hard I look I can't find anyone who can off-the-cuff quote canons and ecumenical anathemas. Most Orthodox people I know just want to talk about normal human stuff like sports and kids and maybe politics. I suppose I should correct them and tell them to properly fixate on fasting and hating Catholics, but everything seems so pleasant as is.

You're exactly right about this! I wonder if the Hyperdox/Netodox phenomenon can also be that some folks may adopt a certain 'personality' when they are on the Internet so they can feel superior to others or be something like a Troll, but in person they are just like everyone else.

But, what do I know?

[IsmiLiora]

I told someone at my church that I would pray for her, and she laughed. Don't come to my church. They're too realistic and worried about their families to hang around message boards.  

[Agabus]

But if all we talked about here was kids, sports and stuff what would be the point?

There are message boards dedicated to that kind of thing. And they, too, are filled with their version of the Hyperdox.

To clarify: I simply want to know where the exaggerated personalities of the Netodox are in real life. I mean, surely they are coloring someone's life in the same way they color our Internet experiences. Or is everything posturing?

(To answer that last question: I believe a lot of it is, yes.)

EDIT: FrChris said something along these lines as I was typing it.

[orthonorm]

I ask this because I run into them on the Internet with some frequency, but in real life I don't know anyone like that. I realize that my experience up to this point is limited to a handful of churches, but proportionally speaking if churches were as full of the Hyperdox as the Internet is I would surely know at least one of them.

But yet no matter how hard I look I can't find anyone who can off-the-cuff quote canons and ecumenical anathemas. Most Orthodox people I know just want to talk about normal human stuff like sports and kids and maybe politics. I suppose I should correct them and tell them to properly fixate on fasting and hating Catholics, but everything seems so pleasant as is.

You're exactly right about this! I wonder if the Hyperdox/Netodox phenomenon can also be that some folks may adopt a certain 'personality' when they are on the Internet so they can feel superior to others or be something like a Troll, but in person they are just like everyone else.

But, what do I know?

Father,

I can PM you some members who can vouch, I am pretty much this obnoxious, awesome, annoying, and sweet in person.

[orthonorm]

But if all we talked about here was kids, sports and stuff what would be the point?

There are message boards dedicated to that kind of thing. And they, too, are filled with their version of the Hyperdox.

To clarify: I simply want to know where the exaggerated personalities of the Netodox are in real life. I mean, surely they are coloring someone's life in the same way they color our Internet experiences. Or is everything posturing?

(To answer that last question: I believe a lot of it is, yes.)

EDIT: FrChris said something along these lines as I was typing it.

nerdom my friend. nerdom.

[Agabus]

nerdom my friend. nerdom.

Such are the days.

[Melodist]

They say little....but they watch

That would be me, at least most of the time.

[orthonorm]

I already have a stack a letters to my Bishop detailing how my Priest has messed up ROYALLY since I first began attending.

As soon as I am Chrismated: I'm dropping that 6 lb. package off at the post office. Overnight no less mind you.

Things are going to change.

[augustin717]

^ROFL

[Punch]

I think that there are a couple people on this forum that can vouch that I am no different in person that I am on here.

I ask this because I run into them on the Internet with some frequency, but in real life I don't know anyone like that. I realize that my experience up to this point is limited to a handful of churches, but proportionally speaking if churches were as full of the Hyperdox as the Internet is I would surely know at least one of them.

But yet no matter how hard I look I can't find anyone who can off-the-cuff quote canons and ecumenical anathemas. Most Orthodox people I know just want to talk about normal human stuff like sports and kids and maybe politics. I suppose I should correct them and tell them to properly fixate on fasting and hating Catholics, but everything seems so pleasant as is.

You're exactly right about this! I wonder if the Hyperdox/Netodox phenomenon can also be that some folks may adopt a certain 'personality' when they are on the Internet so they can feel superior to others or be something like a Troll, but in person they are just like everyone else.

But, what do I know?

Father,

I can PM you some members who can vouch, I am pretty much this obnoxious, awesome, annoying, and sweet in person.

[podkarpatska]

They existed long before the net...many priests used to lovingly refer to such types as 'the super-Orthos'. More was never enough.....

[sainthieu]

In my experience, most Orthodox---and, right now, I'm certainly not one of them---are self-effacing. They're actually quite humble and would never dream of giving unsolicited opinions, correcting someone, or making a big deal about any of their own virtues. In fact, most of the people in my church are like that.

When I grow up, I want to be just like them.

[Ionnis]

I think people behave very differently when they are anonymous.  Also I think a lot of people can quote canons and fathers and all those sorts of things because the information is a click away.  In person this seemingly knowledgeable person doesn't have access to google so to keep from looking like a fool he remains silent. If he doesn't keep silent his thinking/arguments are muddled and come across as silly and uniformed.  I think we all have a little of this in us, if we're honest.

[Agabus]

I already have a stack a letters to my Bishop detailing how my Priest has messed up ROYALLY since I first began attending.

As soon as I am Chrismated: I'm dropping that 6 lb. package off at the post office. Overnight no less mind you.

Things are going to change.

You have given me an idea. I am going to write to the Metropolitan and get rid of my bishop. I am sure he has not listened to as many podcasts as I have.

[orthonorm]

I already have a stack a letters to my Bishop detailing how my Priest has messed up ROYALLY since I first began attending.

As soon as I am Chrismated: I'm dropping that 6 lb. package off at the post office. Overnight no less mind you.

Things are going to change.

You have given me an idea. I am going to write to the Metropolitan and get rid of my bishop. I am sure he has not listened to as many podcasts as I have.

Dude, I totally have at least a year to go before I get to that level. A couple more volumes of the Philokalia and I'll be joining you. Promise.

[Poppy]

I think that there are a couple people on this forum that can vouch that I am no different in person that I am on here.

people are always different online to what they are in person. I don't speak dyslexic ^.^

[orthonorm]

I think that there are a couple people on this forum that can vouch that I am no different in person that I am on here.

people are always different online to what they are in person. I don't speak dyslexic ^.^

I am dyslexic as well. No sarcasm.

[Agabus]

Dude, I totally have at least a year to go before I get to that level. A couple more volumes of the Philokalia and I'll be joining you. Promise.

Don't worry. You can get a copy of Facing East real cheap on Amazon, and if you get a better Internet connection you will be able to stream AFR and acquire the correct phronema at a very fast pace.

When you do, I will email you my manuscript trashing my Baptist heritage. It will really help you out knowing how wrong the Southern Baptists are.

[Poppy]

When you do, I will email you my manuscript trashing my Baptist heritage. It will really help you out knowing how wrong the Southern Baptists are.

Zechariah 4:10 despise not the day of small beginnings

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Agabus]

When you do, I will email you my manuscript trashing my Baptist heritage. It will really help you out knowing how wrong the Southern Baptists are.

Zechariah 4:10 despise not the day of small beginnings

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

FWIW, I have a real soft spot for backwoods fundamentalists who still baptize in the creeks and hollers; whose churches still are heated by a large butane tank during the cold months because you can't get a gas line out that far out in the country; who mince no words about how they feel about the spirit of these last days; who think Herschel Hobbs was too grandiloquent; who will give until it really does hurt them to help out a fellow church member.

Those are the people of my small beginnings, and one of the bittersweet realities of Orthodoxy is that I can never go home again.

[Punch]

FWIW, I have a real soft spot for backwoods fundamentalists who still baptize in the creeks and hollers; whose churches still are heated by a large butane tank during the cold months because you can't get a gas line out that far out in the country; who mince no words about how they feel about the spirit of these last days; who think Herschel Hobbs was too grandiloquent; who will give until it really does hurt them to help out a fellow church member.

Those are the people of my small beginnings, and one of the bittersweet realities of Orthodoxy is that I can never go home again.

Amen.

[Punch]

I think people behave very differently when they are anonymous.  Also I think a lot of people can quote canons and fathers and all those sorts of things because the information is a click away.  In person this seemingly knowledgeable person doesn't have access to google so to keep from looking like a fool he remains silent. If he doesn't keep silent his thinking/arguments are muddled and come across as silly and uniformed.  I think we all have a little of this in us, if we're honest.

I think that there is another possibility that you overlook, and one that I know to be true due to my personal knowledge of some of the people on this forum.  However, for now, I will speak for myself.

I go to Church to worship, not to argue.  In fact, I intentionally avoid any discussion like we have on this board when I am at Church or in the parish hall thereafter.  First off, the Priest is there and if people come and ask me questions, I usually refer them to the Priest.  If the matter is simple, I may address it then, but always tell them to follow up with the Priest.  Secondly, I am there to worship, and I make the assumption that others are there for the same purpose.  I see no benefit to getting into contentious discussions directly after celebrating the Divine Liturgy. 

There are a good number of people on this list who are well educated in matters of Theology and do not need Google to present a lucid argument.  Not all of them are Orthodox.  There are a fair number of Latins that have taken the time to study their Faith and can argue it well without Google, and many Protestants coming from denominations that take Christian Education seriously can hold their own in a discussion with even many Orthodox clergy.  A good number of Latins and Protestants seek out Orthodoxy precisely because they have taken the time to search the Scriptures and other spiritual texts and have been guided to Orthodoxy by the Holy Spirit.  And in the case of the Latins, their texts are often the same ones that we use.  These people do not need Google to do their thinking for them since most of them probably have the texts they need readily available.  Also, many Latins who I know personally, and also a good number of Protestants, come from a tradition of frequent attendance of church services (daily in some cases) and have prayer rules that would make the average Orthodox parishioner blush.  I have been in many Protestant churches that were smaller than the Orthodox parishes that I have attended, yet their midweek and Saturday night services were had much higher attendance than any Vespers that I have attended short of a major Feast Day.   The point of this?  Not everybody on this list, Orthodox or not, needs Google to back up their arguments.

So, I think people behave differently here than in Church for many reasons.  In my case, I don’t come here to worship, I come here to discuss and learn.  And yes, I sometimes come here to argue.  I do not do that because I am “anonymous” because anyone who wants to can go to this forum’s Facebook page and find out exactly who I am.  I behave differently here than I do at Church because this is a different environment, and this forum fulfills a different function than a Church.  If you want to go to my Church and argue with me, I will invite you to my house afterwards and you can have at it.  I will even give you access to my library so that you will not need Google either (except, perhaps, as an index to find which volume whatever you are looking for is found).   

[Kasatkin fan]

It's easy to quote canon's when you have google! It is unfortunate that it breaks a conversation when one tried to google in the middle of a dialogue.

I also doubt most of the people here want to discuss that sort of thing all the time. Although I suppose it is possible.

[Cavaradossi]

I already have a stack a letters to my Bishop detailing how my Priest has messed up ROYALLY since I first began attending.

As soon as I am Chrismated: I'm dropping that 6 lb. package off at the post office. Overnight no less mind you.

Things are going to change.

You have given me an idea. I am going to write to the Metropolitan and get rid of my bishop. I am sure he has not listened to as many podcasts as I have.

I'm writing to all of the bishops in the Patriarchate of Constantinople to have the Ecumenical Patriarch deposed. That'll teach him to pray the creed (even if it was in the original Greek) with that heretic bishop of Rome.

[thetraditionalfrog]

I go to church to pray and worship, not to engage in the unedifying and church politics. Thankfully there is very little of that in my parish. Whilst I do socialise after services on occasion, it is not my raison d'être. To be honest, despite my parish being primarily convert, I have noticed very few so called hyperdox these days. Those that are (in my humble opinion), tend not to push it at others. I went through a hyperdox phase, but found it was self defeating, spiritually unedifying and ended up with complete burn out. Not to mention, in my zealousness I was definitely Orthodox, but I ceased to be Christian. I ceased to excercise Christian love and charity. People started to become hurt, angry, and put out because of me. I realised I was on the totally wrong path.

I have long sense ceased to be a hyperdox, and have settled for simply unassuming Orthodoxy. No more long "monastic" rules of prayers. I pray morning and evening prayer from the Jordanville prayerbook, simple prayer before and after meals, a quick sign of the cross before I start out on a journey. That's it... simple and unassuming. I attend Liturgy on Sunday, Vespers on Wednesday, and Vigil on Saturday evening (although often I only stay through Vespers unless I have need to confess). Although lately I haven't been as regular due to moving house. I strive to follow the fasts as I can, to my strength. Sometimes I do fail, but I get up and keep striving. At the same time I say little about it, and don't make a dead legalism of it. It's a spiritual tool for our benefit, we are not meant to be slaves to it. When it comes to fasting and non Orthodox family and friends.... prayer and discernment.... charity above all things. I also avoid reading labels. As an Orthodox monk once advised "You know what's meat, you know what's dairy, you needn't read labels". The key words, simplicity and charity.


I have chosen to do away with the television, not because of hyperdoxia, but out of genuine lack of interest. Of course my faith had play in the decision, but wasn't the sole reason. I also dress old fashioned (not Amish like) much of the time, but that is a personal choice born primarily out my love for things vintage (1930s-1940s).

Anyway, when I first attended my parish in the late '90s there were some (in my opinion) very hyperdox. I felt I had to follow their advise to a "T", to be fully Orthodox. I felt so "on fire" I did the "great purge". I got rid of most everything I had that didn't exist before 1900. This was even more complicated as I lived in a modern block of flats. I did fine for about three weeks, then I started toward burn out. Ultimately, I became frustrated and considered leaving. My priest and I met, and he told me that there are no Orthodox secret police, and many of the things I claimed I had to be or do to be truly Orthodox were not required or necessary. Furthermore, the church has not made any official pronouncements on most them. He said that whilst people were entitled to share their opinions I needn't take them as gospel truth. Since then I do listen and consider what others say, but I now know I'm under no obligation to follow. If they don't like it, that is for them to deal with. They don't live with me.

Thanks to a goodly priest I was able to temper and channel my zealous hyperdoxy toward being not just Orthodox but Christian.

Like as during a fast, when Mother Church admonishes us to keep to our own kitchens and dining rooms, I keep to myself and strive not to judge others Orthodoxy or how they go about it... As in the prayer of St. Ephrem: "Lord, help me to see my own faults, and judge my brother not."

[ilyazhito]

"Beware of subdeacons" by augustin717
Are there many people who claim clerical rank that they don't have? How does the Bishop know whether these people are fake?There are православнутые around (people who are both crazy and hyperdox). Crazy in Russian is  чокнутый. "Ortho-crazies" abound in Russia, instead of hyperdox

[NicholasMyra]

Re: Where do the Hyperdox live?

In yurts.

[Ortho_cat]

Re: Where do the Hyperdox live?

In yurts.

In pre-communist Russia.

[Michał Kalina]

Warsaw currently.

[Schultz]

Warsaw currently.

In yurts?

[Michał Kalina]

Warsaw currently.

In yurts?

Close. 105 m^2 flat with 5 flatmates.

[Schultz]

Warsaw currently.

In yurts?

Close. 105 m^2 flat with 5 flatmates.

That's how big the mansions are in heaven, you know.

[podkarpatska]

I think we like to imagine that we  see them 'everywhere' but really - much of the time we do spend looking in a mirror! Seriously though, I think we tend to fixate on images as human beings that are out of the ordinary and the church is no exception to that general tendency!

Yurts? Aren't those from Mongolia?

[Schultz]

I think we like to imagine that we  see them 'everywhere' but really - much of the time we do spend looking in a mirror! Seriously though, I think we tend to fixate on images as human beings that are out of the ordinary and the church is no exception to that general tendency!

Yurts? Aren't those from Mongolia?

Central Asian, but, IIRC, the word "yurt" came into English through Russian.

[rakovsky]

Warsaw currently.

Iz kalld Warszawa. Vie you not say korrectli, MIKHAIL?

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