neon_knights
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My political hero.
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« on: August 18, 2011, 05:47:03 AM » |
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Is it true that Justinian and Theodora are considered saints in the Orthodox Church?
Many historians portray Justinian as cruel, and Theodora as sexually promiscuous... is this just slander?
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 05:47:46 AM by neon_knights »
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Fabio Leite
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2011, 08:56:54 AM » |
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Is it true that Justinian and Theodora are considered saints in the Orthodox Church?
Many historians portray Justinian as cruel, and Theodora as sexually promiscuous... is this just slander?
Theodora's sexual promiscuity is overrated. She was an actress when young performing eschatologic comedies that were probably more vulgar than American Pie or Porky's. Remember that it was late Roman culture so this vulgarity probably mean she had to perform these very vulgar scenes in front of the public, live. That's the main source of the legends about her promiscuity. Did she really went one step further and accepted money for sex like many actresses of the time? We'll never know, although that would be plausible. We do know that the "reports" on this were made by a political enemy who hated her and had lots of personal interest in having her slandered. What we also know is that she first married a Roman centurion who gave her a child and abandoned her and she had to return to the theater, where she met Justinian. After she married him, except from the mouth of this political enemy, she was very respected, sometimes even more than Justinian himself. She had lots of charities, had a special concern for poor women and ex-prostitues. According to Wikipedia: She had laws passed that prohibited forced prostitution and closed brothels. She created a convent on the Asian side of the Dardanelles called the Metanoia (Repentance), where the ex-prostitutes could support themselves. She also expanded the rights of women in divorce and property ownership, instituted the death penalty for rape, forbade exposure of unwanted infants, gave mothers some guardianship rights over their children, and forbade the killing of a wife who committed adultery. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodora_(wife_of_Justinian_I) That suggests that *if* she engaged in prostitution at an early age, it was not for promiscuity but forced by necessity and circumstance. Even if she was one, she clearly saw it as a humiliating, non-desirable state. Her laws for protecting women show that she suffered and learned a lot. |
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Many Energies, Three Persons, Two Natures, One God.
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Severian
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2011, 10:17:39 AM » |
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NVM
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 10:34:49 AM by Severian »
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Christ is risen! !المسيح قام Χριστός ἀνέστη! ⲠⲓⲬⲣⲓⲥⲧⲟⲥ ⲁϥⲧⲱⲛϥ! Christus resurrexit! Come and join OCnet's new book club! |
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Michał Kalina
proud Podlachian Belarusian parajournalistic engineer in spe
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2011, 10:30:24 AM » |
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Justinian did persecute the non-Chalcedonians of his day, but I am not going to allow myself to be dragged into another debate on the subject. It has been discussed to death before.
You've started that debate. |
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formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole.  Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
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Severian
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 10:35:37 AM » |
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Justinian did persecute the non-Chalcedonians of his day, but I am not going to allow myself to be dragged into another debate on the subject. It has been discussed to death before.
You've started that debate. Perhaps you're right, I edited my post. Sorry, it wasn't my intention to try to cause trouble. Forgive me.  |
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 10:35:57 AM by Severian »
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Christ is risen! !المسيح قام Χριστός ἀνέστη! ⲠⲓⲬⲣⲓⲥⲧⲟⲥ ⲁϥⲧⲱⲛϥ! Christus resurrexit! Come and join OCnet's new book club! |
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2011, 12:08:15 PM » |
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Is it true that Justinian and Theodora are considered saints in the Orthodox Church?
Many historians portray Justinian as cruel, and Theodora as sexually promiscuous... is this just slander?
Yes, they are saints in the Eastern Orthodox Churches. And yes, much of what is written about them is probably exaggeration or untrue--slander--coming from the secret histories of Procopius who certainly had an axe to grind. |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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Benjamin the Red
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Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2011, 12:52:34 PM » |
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Is it true that Justinian and Theodora are considered saints in the Orthodox Church?
Many historians portray Justinian as cruel, and Theodora as sexually promiscuous... is this just slander?
Yes, they are saints in the Eastern Orthodox Churches. And yes, much of what is written about them is probably exaggeration or untrue--slander--coming from the secret histories of Procopius who certainly had an axe to grind. This. They're both actually quite beloved saints. St. Justianian, who was quite the hymnist, wrote one of my favorite hymns that we Byzantines sing at every Divine Liturgy (i.e., O Monogenes Yios, or in English Only Begotten Son). |
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 12:53:21 PM by Benjamin the Red »
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"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
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dhinuus
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2011, 04:01:22 PM » |
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This. They're both actually quite beloved saints. St. Justianian, who was quite the hymnist, wrote one of my favorite hymns that we Byzantines sing at every Divine Liturgy (i.e., O Monogenes Yios, or in English Only Begotten Son).
In the Oriental Orthodox tradition O Monogenes Yios, or in English Only Begotten Son) is ascribed to St. Severus the Great of Antioch. |
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Benjamin the Red
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Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.
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« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2011, 04:04:03 PM » |
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This. They're both actually quite beloved saints. St. Justianian, who was quite the hymnist, wrote one of my favorite hymns that we Byzantines sing at every Divine Liturgy (i.e., O Monogenes Yios, or in English Only Begotten Son).
In the Oriental Orthodox tradition O Monogenes Yios, or in English Only Begotten Son) is ascribed to St. Severus the Great of Antioch. Really? I have never heard that before. |
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"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
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dhinuus
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2011, 04:14:27 PM » |
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This. They're both actually quite beloved saints. St. Justianian, who was quite the hymnist, wrote one of my favorite hymns that we Byzantines sing at every Divine Liturgy (i.e., O Monogenes Yios, or in English Only Begotten Son).
In the Oriental Orthodox tradition O Monogenes Yios, or in English Only Begotten Son) is ascribed to St. Severus the Great of Antioch. Really? I have never heard that before. Refer to the Holy Qurbana (Divine Liturgy) of the Syriac Orthodox Church online at http://sor.cua.edu/Liturgy/Anaphora/PubCeleb.html. You can see the antiphon by St. Severius, (in Syriac Maneetho of Mor Severius) the Patriarch of Antioch. You can listen this hymn in Syriac at: http://youtu.be/JuWDGWB-YmMYou can listen this hymn in Malayalam (Malankara aka Indian Orthodox) at: http://youtu.be/CjDhFp4E7N4 .Read the text as part of this video. |
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« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 04:16:17 PM by dhinuus »
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Jason.Wike
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« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2011, 12:20:26 AM » |
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Saints aren't always born Saints. St. Cyprian used to worship demons.
If the things we've done before we come to Christ could ever keep us from becoming Saints then Christ would not be God.
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If you give up pride of place for yourself to God, you will find your soul and eternity.. if you insist on putting yourself before God you will loose yourself eternally.
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Jason.Wike
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2011, 12:26:12 AM » |
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In regards to St. Justinian, I guess you are talking about the massacre after the riots?
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« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 12:31:52 AM by Jason.Wike »
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If you give up pride of place for yourself to God, you will find your soul and eternity.. if you insist on putting yourself before God you will loose yourself eternally.
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neon_knights
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My political hero.
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« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2011, 06:38:33 AM » |
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In regards to St. Justinian, I guess you are talking about the massacre after the riots?
Yes, that was the main thing I was referring to. |
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2011, 07:52:15 AM » |
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In regards to St. Justinian, I guess you are talking about the massacre after the riots?
Yes, that was the main thing I was referring to. Consider that the rioters destroyed St. Constantine's Hagia Sophia Church and much of the city. They were not innocent victims. |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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