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Author Topic: Traditions about the Mandylion  (Read 478 times) Average Rating: 0
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Volnutt
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« on: August 16, 2011, 09:55:43 PM »

I'm a bit confused. I thought that Orthodoxy did not subscribe to the Roman Catholic tradition of Saint Veronica and the image of Christ's face on a cloth, but rather that the story of King Abgar was sort of the "Orthodox version" of how the Mandylion came to be.

Now I've found out that Veronica is in fact an Orthodox saint and that the Orthodox tell the same story. So, how do these two traditions co-exist? Is there supposed to have been two Mandylions?

Also, I know some modern Orthodox are now identifying the Shroud of Turin as being the true Mandylion in addition to being the burial cloth of Christ. I suppose this would make both the Abgar and the St. Veronica stories just folklore designed to explain the Shroud of Turin when it was held at the Hagia Sophia. Is there any evidence of this theory from former centuries?
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LBK
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2011, 10:11:09 PM »

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Now I've found out that Veronica is in fact an Orthodox saint and that the Orthodox tell the same story. So, how do these two traditions co-exist? Is there supposed to have been two Mandylions?


The Orthodox St Veronica is the woman in the Gospels who was cured of the issue of blood when she touched the hem of Christ's garment. There are not two traditions in Orthodoxy concerning the Mandylion - only one, that of King Abgar being cured by the miraculous image.

Quote
Also, I know some modern Orthodox are now identifying the Shroud of Turin as being the true Mandylion in addition to being the burial cloth of Christ. I suppose this would make both the Abgar and the St. Veronica stories just folklore designed to explain the Shroud of Turin when it was held at the Hagia Sophia. Is there any evidence of this theory from former centuries?
 

Equating the shroud of Turin with the Mandylion is definitely a novelty, and contradicts the established traditions the Orthodox maintain about the Mandylion and its history. While some Orthodox do regard the shroud as the true burial shroud of Christ, this is not a teaching of the Orthodox Church as a whole.
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bogdan
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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2011, 10:30:12 PM »

The way I always understood it was:

- King Abgar's image was a painting of Christ from life



- St Veronica's image spontaneously appeared after Christ wiped his face, not unlike the smiley face in Forrest Gump



- The Shroud of Turin has no official status in Orthodoxy (though I personally believe it's more likely than not the real thing)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 10:32:07 PM by bogdan » Logged
LBK
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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2011, 10:44:10 PM »

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- King Abgar's image was a painting of Christ from life

This is not correct. From the hymnody of the feast of the Mandylion (August 16):

The king of Edessa, recognising you as King of all things, who do not offer sceptre and army, but with a word multitudes of wonders, implored you, the God-man, to come to him. But seeing your impress on the towel he cried out, ‘You are Lord and God’.

You were fairer in beauty beyond all the sons of mortals, O Saviour; for though you had neither form nor beauty at the moment of your passion, yet you truly enlightened all things, and the sight of your form is revealed. Its likeness, imprinted on a cloth, has been granted to us.

The multitude of the strength of the Hagarenes has been removed and has now given, like an Ark from among foreigners to the new Israel, your imprint on a towel, O Christ, and your glory which it had also gained; for it is not right for Holy Things to be thrown aside.


From the Syxaxarion: Ananias left for Jerusalem and having given the letter to the Lord he gazed intently at him, but, since he was unable to get near him because of the surging crowd, he climbed up onto a small outcrop of rock and at once began to move his eyes while press his hand to the paper and he began to copy the appearance of what he saw, but he was quite unable to capture his form because it appeared now with one now with another appearance and with differing aspect. But the Lord, who knows what is hidden and searches hearts, knowing his intention, revealed what was happening secretly. For he asked to wash, and while doing so he was given a cloth folded in four, and when he had washed he wiped his most pure and divine face with it. Thus his divine form and appearance were imprinted — O the wonder! — on the cloth. This he gave to Ananias saying, Go, give this back to the one who sent you’.

Seems pretty clear the image was not painted on the cloth.


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Volnutt
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 11:17:11 PM »

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Now I've found out that Veronica is in fact an Orthodox saint and that the Orthodox tell the same story. So, how do these two traditions co-exist? Is there supposed to have been two Mandylions?


The Orthodox St Veronica is the woman in the Gospels who was cured of the issue of blood when she touched the hem of Christ's garment.
So icons of her holding the Mandylion are an innovation?
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LBK
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2011, 11:20:48 PM »

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Now I've found out that Veronica is in fact an Orthodox saint and that the Orthodox tell the same story. So, how do these two traditions co-exist? Is there supposed to have been two Mandylions?


The Orthodox St Veronica is the woman in the Gospels who was cured of the issue of blood when she touched the hem of Christ's garment.
So icons of her holding the Mandylion are an innovation?

Yes, they are. They are based on western religious imagery.
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Volnutt
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2011, 11:23:40 PM »

Thanks, LBK and bogdan!
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Tags: Mandylion  Saint Veronica Shroud of Turin King Abgar 
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