Author Topic: Are there canons against tofu dogs?  (Read 2947 times)

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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« on: August 16, 2011, 08:08:57 PM »
If not, then there need to be some. This garbage is Satanic.

Offline LBK

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2011, 08:12:35 PM »
I would add "chocolate" made from carob to the "uncanonical" list. Blech. :P :P :laugh:
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2011, 08:59:42 PM »
Add soy milk to that list. :P
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2011, 09:05:52 PM »
Add soy milk to that list. :P

Soy milk is great, especially with loads of sugar.

Tofu dogs are awful but tofu bacon ain't bad at all.

Offline LBK

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 09:09:26 PM »
Add soy milk to that list. :P

YES!! Coffee with soy milk is vile.  :P :P :P I'd rather go black if milk is off the menu.
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2011, 09:10:10 PM »
Guys, soy milk is not meant to be put in coffee. Come on.

Offline stavros_388

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2011, 09:11:47 PM »
Guys, soy milk is not meant to be put in coffee. Come on.

Almond milk. That's where it's at.
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Offline KBN1

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2011, 09:15:31 PM »
Guys, soy milk is not meant to be put in coffee. Come on.

Almond milk. That's where it's at.

Coconut cream is even better.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 09:24:04 PM »
Reminds me of vegetarian rabbit from 12 Chairs by Ilf&Petrov.

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2011, 09:59:25 PM »
Add soy milk to that list. :P

YES!! Coffee with soy milk is vile.  :P :P :P I'd rather go black if milk is off the menu.

I think milk in coffee is the sin. Soy is the penance.
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 10:55:26 PM »
If not, then there need to be some. This garbage is Satanic.

For me, eating anything made of soy is deadly. Yuk.
And they feed the poor cattle soy, so I cannot eat that either.
I have serious allergies to the legume family: peanuts, beans, and peas.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 10:58:08 PM by Maria »
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2011, 10:57:23 PM »
Anyone here try Tofu turkey during the Thanksgiving season (last week in November)?
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Offline LBK

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2011, 11:02:42 PM »
Anyone here try Tofu turkey during the Thanksgiving season (last week in November)?

That. Sounds. Utterly. Abominably. Disgusting.  :P :P
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Offline JLatimer

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2011, 11:03:15 PM »
Add soy milk to that list. :P

You can't milk a bean.
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Offline MichaelArchangelos

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2011, 01:43:14 AM »
Having been a vegetarian for 2 years, I love meat substitutes and ate them regularly while I was a vegetarian. After the first time I encountered such a thing (which was on holiday in Malaysia), I asked the local Orthodox priest if it would be a sin to eat fake meat on fast days, and he said no.

Do you think a person is following the spirit of the fast if they are eating Morningstar burgers and other products which (to them) taste almost exactly like meat? If you are eating something which is 100% vegetarian and in line with Orthodox fasting laws but tastes exactly like meat, which you are supposed to be giving up as a penance, isn't that defeating the purpose of fasting?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 01:44:39 AM by MichaelArchangelos »

Offline JimCBrooklyn

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2011, 01:51:09 AM »
I think soy can be tasty in some forms, but I won't touch it. Stuff is awful for you.
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Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2011, 04:20:06 AM »
A chai teabag and a cinnamon stick steeped for a while in warm almond milk is just gorgeous. Almond milk has been one of my best discoveries since I had breast cancer and was told that soy contains oestrogen  ???  I read recently about a very slender vegan actress who had to become a Marilyn Monroe lookalike for a role did it by eating lots of soy ice-cream, she thought it would put on weight where needed most and it apparently did!

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(modified to make sense!)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 04:21:34 AM by Margaret S. »

Offline Poppy

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2011, 04:56:52 AM »
I'm not a vege, i love getting my chops round a huge sausage now an then haha.... but i love soy as well.

Costa do a soya capuccino that is sooo yummy (but other than this, soy in coffee is rank i agree) and also the chocolate milk that you can buy in the store made with soya is nice too!!!

I love quorn as well they make them as sausages which are yummers.

Not almond milk but cinnamon milk is ......O.....M........DAYS....to die for!!!! Dyhn makes amazing cinnamon milk that sends me right off to sleep in a minute!!! WW£ could be going on outside and i wouldnt wake up after that.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 04:57:28 AM by Poppy »

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2011, 05:08:19 AM »
Do you think a person is following the spirit of the fast if they are eating Morningstar burgers and other products which (to them) taste almost exactly like meat? If you are eating something which is 100% vegetarian and in line with Orthodox fasting laws but tastes exactly like meat, which you are supposed to be giving up as a penance, isn't that defeating the purpose of fasting?

In short, yes. It's pharisaism. Not to mention the fact that these vegetarian meat substitutes are often much more expensive, leaving you with less money for charity, making that important element of fasting redundant too.

The only thing that is upheld is perhaps the avoidance of the physical effects of meat and other animal products. The Fathers write quite extensively about the connection between eating too much meat and an increase in sexual desire, for example.

Offline J.M.C

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2011, 05:32:41 AM »
Having been a vegetarian for 2 years, I love meat substitutes and ate them regularly while I was a vegetarian. After the first time I encountered such a thing (which was on holiday in Malaysia), I asked the local Orthodox priest if it would be a sin to eat fake meat on fast days, and he said no.

Do you think a person is following the spirit of the fast if they are eating Morningstar burgers and other products which (to them) taste almost exactly like meat? If you are eating something which is 100% vegetarian and in line with Orthodox fasting laws but tastes exactly like meat, which you are supposed to be giving up as a penance, isn't that defeating the purpose of fasting?

Penance is not the purpose of fasting in Orthodoxy - or at least not the main purpose. The main purpose is asceticism. This is why, though Orthodox11 agrees with you, his most pertinent comments are those relating to the Fathers:

Quote
The only thing that is upheld is perhaps the avoidance of the physical effects of meat and other animal products. The Fathers write quite extensively about the connection between eating too much meat and an increase in sexual desire, for example.

Abstaining from animal products, therefore, is the main guiding principle of fasting rules, and "fake meats" help with this - they do not, in themselves, go against the spirit of the fast. Regardless of their taste, if you eat a veggie burger you are not eating meat, and the "effects" of eating meat described by the Fathers are thus avoided.

What eating a lot of this processed fake-meats does do is free up time, as they take less preparation then preparing and cooking vegetables. This is a neutral thing, but quite obviously can be put to good effect if we spend this extra time wisely.

Here is an article which talks about the role of fake-meat in fasting:

http://www.pravmir.com/what-about-meat-and-dairy-substitutes-during-great-lent/

You don't have to listen to me, but equally I would advise you to listen to a priest over any anonymous bod on the Internet. With the Malaysian priest, and now Fr David who wrote the article above, you have two priests' opinion on the matter.
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2011, 05:40:42 AM »
I once tasted a piece of tofu sushi. It was disgusting. I don't know if this counts for all kinds of tofu but it tasted like someone had covered it with suckar. Yuk
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2011, 06:28:43 AM »
Tofu is a crime against humanity. Too bad that my girlfriend is a vegetarian and seem to like it. That means that I have to eat it from time to time. :-X On the other hand it's perfect lenten food since is so bad that nobody wants to eat it excessively.

Soy milk on the other hand is not that bad.

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2011, 08:04:05 AM »
You guys don't understand tofu, and that's because white people keep trying to do dumb stuff with it like make it into turkeys and sushi. When it's properly cooked (and there are many varieties, so it depends) it's absolutely delicious. And no, I'm not a vegetarian.

Offline akimori makoto

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2011, 08:15:08 AM »
There are so many different ways of making and cooking tofu, it's hard to believe it's all bad to you dudes.
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2011, 08:30:05 AM »
I've eaten tofu so many ways that it's hard to believe why people LIKE it ;) Even fried.

Although I can tolerate the small blocks of it in miso soup. Mmm, miso soup.

I do like: Boca chicken nuggets and patties, Morningstar breakfast patties (actually, almost everything Morningstar, with the exception of their chicken nuggets, blagh), so I guess I am a soy, fake protein monster. I even eat it when it's not a fasting period. The stuff is expensive, though, so I can't exactly finish off a bag of chicken nuggets in one (or even two) sitting. $3.99 down the drain in one shot! No thank you.

During Lent we try to minimize our consumption of the fake meat products. There, I said it. Yes, we still eat it.

I don't really like soy milk. It's okay, but I never drink milk -- don't eat coffee and don't really eat cereal anymore, so i don't have a reason to keep it around. Mr. Ismi doesn't drink it during Lent either, but then again, he likes his coffee black so it isn't too much of a sacrifice.
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2011, 08:56:52 AM »
Mrs. Ismi, so those Boca chicken nuggets are pretty good?  How close do they taste to the real thing?  I have had a hankering for chicken nuggets for a long time but generally don't eat processed chicken anymore.  I sell industrial products and I was working on a job that had an exhaust fan at a packing plant on one of the ammonia washes.  This thing had to have special construction with special coatings so the STEEL wouldn't corrode.  At first I didn't think about it, then I found out that the ammonia wash is not for the tools but for the chicken, to sterilize it.  Then flavor is added to mask the ammonia. 

I have an incredible stomach and can generally eat store bought meats and just get over the fact that I know a bit more about the process than most people do.  But soy meat has been a good thing and I have been trying to eat more and more of it.
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2011, 09:20:37 AM »
About to make some blackened tofu with jerk asparagus and rice tonight.  YUM!

I don't eat tofu that much because I generally don't like it, although I do enjoy properly prepared tempeh.  This will be the first time I try the above  and I have high hopes for it.
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2011, 09:42:16 AM »
About to make some blackened tofu with jerk asparagus and rice tonight.  YUM!

I don't eat tofu that much because I generally don't like it, although I do enjoy properly prepared tempeh.  This will be the first time I try the above  and I have high hopes for it.
The trick to blackened tofu, I've heard, is to press out the extra moisture.
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2011, 09:45:34 AM »
About to make some blackened tofu with jerk asparagus and rice tonight.  YUM!

I don't eat tofu that much because I generally don't like it, although I do enjoy properly prepared tempeh.  This will be the first time I try the above  and I have high hopes for it.
The trick to blackened tofu, I've heard, is to press out the extra moisture.

Thanks for the tip!
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2011, 09:54:35 AM »
Do you think a person is following the spirit of the fast if they are eating Morningstar burgers and other products which (to them) taste almost exactly like meat? If you are eating something which is 100% vegetarian and in line with Orthodox fasting laws but tastes exactly like meat, which you are supposed to be giving up as a penance, isn't that defeating the purpose of fasting?

None of the burgers and other soy products taste even remotely like meat - or dairy, for that matter. The only difference between them is whether one tastes slightly less disgusting than another.
Eating anything made of soy is most certainly a penitential act.
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2011, 10:45:36 AM »
You guys don't understand tofu, and that's because white people keep trying to do dumb stuff with it like make it into turkeys and sushi. When it's properly cooked (and there are many varieties, so it depends) it's absolutely delicious. And no, I'm not a vegetarian.

Crispy twice fried tofu with peanut sauce is really yummy.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2011, 10:49:02 AM »
Add soy milk to that list. :P

YES!! Coffee with soy milk is vile.  :P :P :P I'd rather go black if milk is off the menu.

I think milk in coffee is the sin. Soy is the penance.

The pure in coffee drink it black.
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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2011, 10:51:16 AM »
Tofu in Meso Soup is fantastic....but thats it. Tofu meat you can keep.

If you're lactose intolerant, I can understand Soy Milk (Almond milk, etc) however if you're not just use milk. If you NEED soy milk to be healthy you have alot worse problems than milk....

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2011, 10:55:06 AM »

I absolutely LOVE Szechwan Veggies with Tofu at my local Chinese Restaurant!  I would eat even on non-fasting days!  It's the best.

I personally love tofu, just not all the fake meats made of tofu.

MorningStar makes a good "burger", but, I can't eat any of the hot dogs, bacon, chicken immitations.  They taste terrible.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2011, 11:01:20 AM »
Do you think a person is following the spirit of the fast if they are eating Morningstar burgers and other products which (to them) taste almost exactly like meat? If you are eating something which is 100% vegetarian and in line with Orthodox fasting laws but tastes exactly like meat, which you are supposed to be giving up as a penance, isn't that defeating the purpose of fasting?

I am only a vegetarian during fasting periods and I can assure anyone, even if force of arms is necessary, that fake meat does not at all taste like meat and those who think so do not have taste buds.

Fasting is not about taste of foods or about saving money or about losing weight. It is a tool for spiritual growth.
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Offline JimCBrooklyn

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2011, 11:06:26 AM »
With all of the demands in our lives, I really don't think it's pharasaism to eat things that taste kinda like meat. Like I said, I barely eat tofu, even though I think it's good,  because it's like injecting estrogen into your veins, which has a lot of negative consequences for a man or woman, and I never eat Seitan (also called "wheat gluten", the stuff that tastes the most like meat), because I don't eat gluten, or many grains, period, but I definitely indulge in other things that are very tasty but fasting foods.

Coconut milk, avocados and nuts dominate my fast, and I'm totally comfortable with that. As I've said before, I have 2+ kids and a wife, business/house to attend to, school work (still, ugh), 2 sports I play and coach, and I'm a workout nut. I try to tone it all down to the extent that is possible during the fast, but based on what my priest tells me, I'll eat whatever feels and tastes good, as long as I'm not breaking guidelines. It reminds me of what/why I'm doing it, and I'm such a carnivore that it's already a big deal for me, and definitely beats down those carnal desires :)
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2011, 11:07:02 AM »
There are so many different ways of making and cooking tofu, it's hard to believe it's all bad to you dudes.

I can eat it "raw".

I never saw the big deal about tofu.

I will not eat a tofu dog and other such garbage if I can avoid it.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2011, 11:10:24 AM »
Zarked quotes. No time to fix. I'll lulz at the dietary statements made later.


« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 11:11:16 AM by orthonorm »
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Offline JimCBrooklyn

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2011, 11:16:42 AM »
Zarked quotes. No time to fix. I'll lulz at the dietary statements made later.




I know you hate my dietary approach. I'm cool with that, we've had that discussion. I'm just sharing how I fast, and how I feel about what one can or can't eat during the fast.
It is not the task of Christianity to provide easy answers to every question, but to make us progressively aware of a mystery. God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder.
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Offline JimCBrooklyn

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2011, 11:22:44 AM »
Hate's a strong word. I meant, scoff at, and think is ridiculous. I doubt you mind enough to hate it.
It is not the task of Christianity to provide easy answers to every question, but to make us progressively aware of a mystery. God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder.
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2011, 11:26:07 AM »
I've never had seitan that "tastes" like meat.  It might have a similar "bite" but once it hits the tongue, no matter how it was marinated or slathered in bbq sauce or whatever, it's definitely not meat.

I really have to wonder at the quality of meat people who think soy/seitan/tempeh tastes like meat.
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Offline JimCBrooklyn

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2011, 11:27:47 AM »
I've never had seitan that "tastes" like meat.  It might have a similar "bite" but once it hits the tongue, no matter how it was marinated or slathered in bbq sauce or whatever, it's definitely not meat.

I really have to wonder at the quality of meat people who think soy/seitan/tempeh tastes like meat.
I mean, I've had seitan that was so processed and jumbled up with other crap, that once soaked in sauce, tasted vaguely like some kind of very cheap meat, but I agree with you. Tempeh's the only yummy one of the bunch, to me, but it tastes nothing like meat.
It is not the task of Christianity to provide easy answers to every question, but to make us progressively aware of a mystery. God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder.
-Metropolitan Kallistos Ware

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2011, 11:31:45 AM »
Zarked quotes. No time to fix. I'll lulz at the dietary statements made later.




I know you hate my dietary approach. I'm cool with that, we've had that discussion. I'm just sharing how I fast, and how I feel about what one can or can't eat during the fast.

Its not your approach (as I've said multiple time, I've eaten how you try to do for practical reasons) it is your willingness you spout off absolutely unsubstantiated claims which fly in the face of reality. Banging estrogen is hardly eating tofu.

Eating tofu is just fine.

If I thought you were being hyperbolic for humor sake, I wouldn't care.

Soy is OK.

Food is OK.

Tofu hot dogs are garbage.

And seitan should never be eaten by a Christian. //:=)
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Offline JimCBrooklyn

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2011, 11:36:07 AM »
Zarked quotes. No time to fix. I'll lulz at the dietary statements made later.




I know you hate my dietary approach. I'm cool with that, we've had that discussion. I'm just sharing how I fast, and how I feel about what one can or can't eat during the fast.

Its not your approach (as I've said multiple time, I've eaten how you try to do for practical reasons) it is your willingness you spout off absolutely unsubstantiated claims which fly in the face of reality. Banging estrogen is hardly eating tofu.

Eating tofu is just fine.

If I thought you were being hyperbolic for humor sake, I wouldn't care.

Soy is OK.

Food is OK.

Tofu hot dogs are garbage.

And seitan should never be eaten by a Christian. //:=)
Do I think that eating tofu occasionally=banging estrogen? No, so to some extent, yes I'm being hyperbolic. But There's a very clearly established connection between eating a lot of soy and estrogen levels, especially as often as many Americans eat soy, whether for "health" reasons, or because it's added to everything processed.

Not to mention a lot of studies that have suggested other nasty things about soy, i.e., hindering mineral absorption due to phytic acid, thyroid issues, etc. I'm not saying any of these theories are slam dunks, but there's enough out there to support avoiding soy, especially that which is in any way processed. Whole soy? Maybe.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 11:40:08 AM by JimCBrooklyn »
It is not the task of Christianity to provide easy answers to every question, but to make us progressively aware of a mystery. God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder.
-Metropolitan Kallistos Ware

Offline IsmiLiora

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Re: Are there canons against tofu dogs?
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2011, 11:40:44 AM »
Mrs. Ismi, so those Boca chicken nuggets are pretty good?  How close do they taste to the real thing?  I have had a hankering for chicken nuggets for a long time but generally don't eat processed chicken anymore.  I sell industrial products and I was working on a job that had an exhaust fan at a packing plant on one of the ammonia washes.  This thing had to have special construction with special coatings so the STEEL wouldn't corrode.  At first I didn't think about it, then I found out that the ammonia wash is not for the tools but for the chicken, to sterilize it.  Then flavor is added to mask the ammonia. 

I have an incredible stomach and can generally eat store bought meats and just get over the fact that I know a bit more about the process than most people do.  But soy meat has been a good thing and I have been trying to eat more and more of it.
Ugh, that makes my stomach turn (probably not enough to stop eating chicken, sadly :( ).

The Boca chicken nuggets are the closest to chicken that I've tried. The MorningStar nuggets have a very strange texture, but I got used to them. Boca honestly doesn't taste like fasting to me. Of course regular chicken is much more satisfying, but I recommend you try the chicken patties or something and make your determination. Of course these foods are very processed, but YMMV.
She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
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