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Author Topic: setting up an icon corner  (Read 2688 times) Average Rating: 0
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Timon
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« on: August 16, 2011, 01:24:32 AM »

im wanting to set up an icon corner. is there any way these icons should traditionally be arranged? ive seen a lot of pictures of peoples icon corners who have Jesus AND Mary at the top, even with each other.  Shouldnt Christ be centered and above all?  Or does it not really matter in the case of an icon corner?

I was thinking something simple: an icon of Christ (centered and raised a little higher than the others), Theotokos, and a saint on either side of Christ. (havent decided yet which saint yet. any suggestions on picking one?) I also would like to have a russian 3 bar cross somewhere.

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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2011, 01:33:31 AM »

Remember an icon of the Theotokos-and-child is an icon of the Lord. You could say it is an icon of the Incarnation.
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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2011, 01:51:18 AM »

I was thinking something simple: an icon of Christ (centered and raised a little higher than the others), Theotokos, and a saint on either side of Christ. (havent decided yet which saint yet. any suggestions on picking one?) I also would like to have a russian 3 bar cross somewhere.

I think it's a good idea to keep it simple.  As far as saints, do you have any idea who your patron is/will be?  Are there any saints that call out to you?
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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2011, 01:59:33 AM »

I do not know who my patron is. That was my next question. How do you get one? Do you pick? Or is it given to you?
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2011, 02:03:10 AM »

I do not know who my patron is. That was my next question. How do you get one? Do you pick? Or is it given to you?

It can go either way. If you're named after a saint your priest might counsel you to stay with that saint as a patron (and it could be said that that saint has been guiding you into the Church). If your name is a common saint name you might choose a saint who resonates most strongly with you or your priest might make a suggestion. If you aren't named after a saint you might consider a saint who is commemorated on your birthday or your priest might have other suggestions.
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2011, 02:24:25 AM »

We have a cross on top, in the middle, just above an icon of Christ, who is flanked just a bit lower on each side by Rublyev's Trinity and a Kazanskaya Theotokos. My patron, and our family patron saint, St. Nicholas, is directly below Christ, and a number of other smaller icons of various saints are by his side and below him.

Whatever you want, I think the only rule of thumb is keep the divine up top.
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2011, 03:07:10 AM »

I do not know who my patron is. That was my next question. How do you get one? Do you pick? Or is it given to you?

You might want to check whether you can find your name from this list.
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2011, 05:24:48 AM »

I do not know who my patron is. That was my next question. How do you get one? Do you pick? Or is it given to you?

The holy martyr Timon,one of the Seven Deacons and then a Bishop and one of the Seventy Apostles, is commemorated 4 January, 28 July and 30 December.

Святой Тимон был поставлен Апостолами во епископа города Бастории в Аравии и пострадал от иудеев и язычников за проповедь Евангелия. Он был брошен в печь, но силой Божией вышел из нее невредимым. Предание Римской Церкви говорит, что святой Тимон скончался распятым на кресте.

О нем повествуется в книге Деяний апостольских (Деян. 6,1-7). Был епископом г. Бостры (в Аравии), где много пострадал за проповедь имени Христова и был брошен в огонь, но вышел из него невредимым. Затем был предан крестной смерти.

Святой апостол Тимон был одним из 7 диаконов, поставленных апостолами для помощи бедным христианским вдовам. Впоследствии он был избран епископом в городе Бостре Аравийском, многих привел к христианству и мученически скончался: его бросили в раскаленную печь.

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глас 3
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Диакони честнии,/ и самовидцы Слова,/ и сосуди избраннии явистеся веры,/ Никанор, Прохор, Пармен и Тимон, славнии,/ темже днесь священную память вашу празднуем,// в веселии сердца вас ублажающе.

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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 10:36:25 AM »

My birthday is July 28th. Thats why I chose Timon as my username. But I didn't know if he could be my patron. There doesn't seem to be too much information about him either...
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2011, 03:28:09 PM »

I wouldn't worry too much about the specifics of your icon corner. It's there to aid in your prayer, not to establish it. You seem like you have it under control.

And Akimori Makoto is right; the icon of the Theotokos with Christ IS an icon of Christ. If you recall the Royal Doors at the iconostasis, the icons on either side are Christ and the Theotokos, and one of Christ. The one on the left when facing it is an icon of Christ's first coming. The icon on the right is Christ as Judge, His second coming. In between pass the Gospel and the Eucharist, the means by which He is with is in between His two comings.

As for your saint, IMHO, it is best to use your given name if it is the name of a saint, or a variation of the name of a saint. Even if you think your name is not that of a saint, some names, although difficult to see at first, are actually names of saints. For instance, Tiffany comes from Theophany. Rene would be the same thing - "rebirth" - baptism, with a feast day at Theophany. Those are just a couple examples.
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 07:36:53 PM »

well, my name is Kurtis.  I dont think there is a saint named Kurtis.  At least I couldnt find one... What should i do?

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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2011, 08:03:40 PM »

well, my name is Kurtis.  I dont think there is a saint named Kurtis.  At least I couldnt find one... What should i do?



What about your middle name? (if you have one)
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2011, 08:08:34 PM »

michael....

i guess there one with that name, or a name close to it. michael is a pretty common name.
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2011, 08:13:31 PM »

Yes there are quite a few saints named Michael.

Or another idea: "Kurtis" means "courageous" in Latin, so it is a sort of title. Perhaps you could seek out a pre-schism western/Latin saint who exhibited bravery, such as a martyr or confessor. That's a bit more of an esoteric approach but it could still tie in to your given name.

Or a courageous saint named Michael, and then you get both!
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2011, 08:18:34 PM »

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Rene would be the same thing - "rebirth" - baptism, with a feast day at Theophany.

Completely wrong. Rene, and the feminine Renee, are the French forms of Irenaeus/Irene, meaning peace. Nothing at all to do with Theophany. As for Tiffany/Theophany, any connection there is only that the girl's name sounds a bit like the feast's name. Baptismal names connected with Theophany are Photios and Photeini, names which mean light, as well as Theophanes/Theophania.
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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2011, 08:30:33 PM »

There are several "traditional" icon corner arrangements of which I am aware:

Christ to the right, Theotokos to the left. Just like on the iconostas in the church.

Christ in the center, Theotokos to His left, and St. John the Baptist to his right. This is also on the iconostas. St. John the Forerunner and Baptist is traditionally found immediately to Christ's right. As Our Lord says, "there is none born of woman who is greater than John the Baptist." He is immediately following the Theotokos in the ranks of the saints.

Rublev's Trinity in the center, Christ to the right, Theotokos to the left. Common especially in Russian/Slavic traditions (for obvious reasons).

Three-Bar Cross in the center, Christ to the right, Theotokos to the left. Obvious again.

A patron saint should also be held in high regard in the icon corner, near the top. However, Christ & Theotokos should always be at the top (or at least the largest/most central). As far as finding a patron saint, all of the methods given here are great. In my own experience, it came naturally. I've heard the same from many others.
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« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2011, 08:51:03 PM »

Quote
Rene would be the same thing - "rebirth" - baptism, with a feast day at Theophany.

Completely wrong. Rene, and the feminine Renee, are the French forms of Irenaeus/Irene, meaning peace. Nothing at all to do with Theophany. As for Tiffany/Theophany, any connection there is only that the girl's name sounds a bit like the feast's name. Baptismal names connected with Theophany are Photios and Photeini, names which mean light, as well as Theophanes/Theophania.
Knee V is correct. René definitely derives from renaître (to be reborn); it is related to Latin "Renatus", also seen in various languages as "Renato". The names Irénée and Irène should be obvious.

According to this source, Tiffany is a modernized form of Theophania.

A search on that same site for "light" turned up these results (not that I would necessarily recommend the use or non-use of any particular name found here).
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« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2011, 09:06:19 PM »

Remember an icon of the Theotokos-and-child is an icon of the Lord. You could say it is an icon of the Incarnation.

Perfectly lovely, to have a simple beginning with an icon of the Theotokos and Christ.

Said it before, when I didn't give a fig about Orthodoxy or God, I truly was touched by simplicity of many homes I saw in EE with one icon, or maybe two. And simple piety of many of those people.

While I find a bit jarring some of the stuff I come across here in the States. Icons on lawns?

But I do tend toward the least amount possible in junk, except clothing. And thinking.

FWIW.

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« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2011, 09:08:28 PM »

I wouldn't worry too much about the specifics of your icon corner. It's there to aid in your prayer, not to establish it. You seem like you have it under control.

And Akimori Makoto is right; the icon of the Theotokos with Christ IS an icon of Christ. If you recall the Royal Doors at the iconostasis, the icons on either side are Christ and the Theotokos, and one of Christ. The one on the left when facing it is an icon of Christ's first coming. The icon on the right is Christ as Judge, His second coming. In between pass the Gospel and the Eucharist, the means by which He is with is in between His two comings.

As for your saint, IMHO, it is best to use your given name if it is the name of a saint, or a variation of the name of a saint. Even if you think your name is not that of a saint, some names, although difficult to see at first, are actually names of saints. For instance, Tiffany comes from Theophany. Rene would be the same thing - "rebirth" - baptism, with a feast day at Theophany. Those are just a couple examples.

I need to read all the replies before I post. Going to delete some of my post.
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« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2011, 09:12:17 PM »

I wouldn't worry too much about the specifics of your icon corner. It's there to aid in your prayer, not to establish it. You seem like you have it under control.

And Akimori Makoto is right; the icon of the Theotokos with Christ IS an icon of Christ. If you recall the Royal Doors at the iconostasis, the icons on either side are Christ and the Theotokos, and one of Christ. The one on the left when facing it is an icon of Christ's first coming. The icon on the right is Christ as Judge, His second coming. In between pass the Gospel and the Eucharist, the means by which He is with is in between His two comings.

As for your saint, IMHO, it is best to use your given name if it is the name of a saint, or a variation of the name of a saint. Even if you think your name is not that of a saint, some names, although difficult to see at first, are actually names of saints. For instance, Tiffany comes from Theophany. Rene would be the same thing - "rebirth" - baptism, with a feast day at Theophany. Those are just a couple examples.

If find your knowledges and reasonables to be infuriatingly getting in my way to stir the pot a little. //:=)

Seriously, great posts. Already benefited from your being here. Although, it pains I have had yet a chance to flirt with offending you.

Thanks . . .
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« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2011, 09:51:32 PM »



But I do tend toward the least amount possible in junk, except clothing. And thinking.


Ah, a kindred spirit! A description I often use for myself is "The Orthodox Minimalist": maximalist in religion, minimalist in stuff.

 Grin

I used to have a TON of icons. Many given to me. I gave most away. I discovered that St. George Antiochian in Pharr, TX was looking for icons for the Mexican Orthodox, so I shipped off to them the ones I wasn't able to give away.

Now, I just have a diptych of the Theotokos & Christ, a hand-painted icon of my patron saint I commissioned (St. Theodora the Empress, who restored the icons to the churches). Those are the main ones. Then I have smaller ones of St. Nicholas, Rublev's Trinity, the Holy Royal Russian Marytrs (Nicholas II and his family), St. Elizabeth the New Martyr, and my parish's patron.

Base of icon "corner" is a small bookcase in my living room. Icons are on top, leaning against the wall, and flat on the top. My landlord doesn't want too many nail holes in the walls. It's not on an east wall. I don't have an east wall in my apartment that's not taken over by many windows.

I have several others scattered about my place - Theotokos and Christ next to my bed, and then a larger one of the Theotokos of the Sign as a sort of prayer area in my bedroom. Mystical Supper (Last Supper) over my kitchen table, St. Euphrosynos the Cook over sink.

I'm very happy with the number of icons I'm now down to.

OP, Just keep your icon corner simple. When you're received into the Church, you may very well find people giving you gifts of icons and you may amass a large collection this way! Wink
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« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2011, 02:59:59 AM »

Baptismal names connected with Theophany are Photios and Photeini, names which mean light, as well as Theophanes/Theophania.

There are Saint Photius (multiple), Saint Photini and Saint Theophanes (multiple).
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« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2011, 11:02:46 PM »

Kurtis comes from the same source as "courteous". Courteous can translate into Latin as "liberalis".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalis_of_Treviso

St Liberalis of Treviso (in northern Italy) was a 4th Century priest who opposed Arianism.

And, of course, there's always Michael. Just because it may be "common" doesn't mean that it's not a good name to take.
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« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2011, 11:59:59 PM »

Thanks for the help! Is the St. Michael I'm seeing the same as St. Michael the archangel?
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« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2011, 12:10:09 AM »

There are many Orthodox saints called Michael, as well as the Archangel by that name.
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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2011, 12:15:47 AM »

How about this: my patron is St. Joseph, so what if I put the Rublev Trinity top center, an icon of Christ to the left of center (left facing) and an icon of the Holy Family to the right of center?
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« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2011, 09:39:58 AM »

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and an icon of the Holy Family to the right of center?

The "Holy Family" (St Joseph, the Mother of God and a young Christ, and often showing St Joseph with his arm around the Virgin) is imagery which is from non-Orthodox sources. It is not part of Orthodox tradition, nor is it compatible with Orthodox doctrine. Better that you get yourself an icon of St Joseph (holding a budding rod, or two doves, or a scroll with Is.7:14 written on it). Do not get one with him holding the Christ-child. Such imagery might be permissible and prevalent in non-Orthodox circles, but is completely unacceptable as an Orthodox icon.

Other, easily-obtainable icons where St Joseph is present are the Nativity of the Lord, the Meeting of the Lord, and the Flight into Egypt.
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« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2011, 02:46:42 PM »

If you're drawn to Apostle Timon the Deacon of the Seventy, why not start up a relationship in prayer with him?

Troparion - Tone 3
 Holy apostle Timon of the Seventy;
 entreat the merciful;
 to grant our souls forgiveness of transgressions.


Kontakion - Tone 4
 The Church ever sees you as a shining star, O apostle Timon,
 Your miracles have manifested great enlightenment.
 Therefore we cry out to Christ:
 "Save those who with faith honor Your apostle, O Most Merciful One."

In my icon corner I have a diptych of Christ and the Theotokos. I also have icons of my patron St Aidan, and a crucifix. I have a secondary relic and icon of St Spyridon, of the Archangels Michael and Gabriel, and an icon card of St Seraphim of Sarov.

My most foolish mistake was to go my own way, buy in a lot of other icons of saints I don't really know and who don't seem to be the ones God has in mind for me. Now I pray I ask God to show me which icons to buy. I bought St Spyridon because the fragrance of myrrh came into my room when I put his relic there, and St Michael after the image of his icon gave me the gift of tears. As far as the saints go, the above are my best friends so far. The above icons are of saints who are special to me. I pray God will send me more.
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« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2011, 03:04:02 PM »

If you're drawn to Apostle Timon the Deacon of the Seventy, why not start up a relationship in prayer with him?

Troparion - Tone 3
 Holy apostle Timon of the Seventy;
 entreat the merciful;
 to grant our souls forgiveness of transgressions.


Kontakion - Tone 4
 The Church ever sees you as a shining star, O apostle Timon,
 Your miracles have manifested great enlightenment.
 Therefore we cry out to Christ:
 "Save those who with faith honor Your apostle, O Most Merciful One."

In my icon corner I have a diptych of Christ and the Theotokos. I also have icons of my patron St Aidan, and a crucifix. I have a secondary relic and icon of St Spyridon, of the Archangels Michael and Gabriel, and an icon card of St Seraphim of Sarov.

My most foolish mistake was to go my own way, buy in a lot of other icons of saints I don't really know and who don't seem to be the ones God has in mind for me. Now I pray I ask God to show me which icons to buy. I bought St Spyridon because the fragrance of myrrh came into my room when I put his relic there, and St Michael after the image of his icon gave me the gift of tears. As far as the saints go, the above are my best friends so far. The above icons are of saints who are special to me. I pray God will send me more.

Good call.  I was going to choose him as my patron, but I didnt know it would be more important to have one with the same name as you.  He is celebrated on my birthday.  However, I do have a question... Does the RC church celebrate different saints on different days?  Every time i search "saints celebrated on July 28th" i only find a couple of sources (which are Orthodox) that say Timon is celebrated on that day.  Do other churches view different people as saints? Or just celebrate them at different times?

Also, can Michael the Archangel be a patron? Or can he not because he is an angel?  Could someone help me find a list of saints named michael??? I cant hardly find any other than the angel...
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« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2011, 04:07:25 PM »

Does anyone know any prayers to St. Andrew? For those of us who have him as our patron saint at least..

I don't really have much of a "relationship" with him, except in name only -- perhaps this can change..? I set up an icon of him in my room though next to St. Irenaeus.  Those 2 are my favourite saints by far..
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« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2011, 05:29:02 PM »

Does anyone know any prayers to St. Andrew? For those of us who have him as our patron saint at least..

I don't really have much of a "relationship" with him, except in name only -- perhaps this can change..? I set up an icon of him in my room though next to St. Irenaeus.  Those 2 are my favourite saints by far..

Not every relationship grows at the same rate. Some saints will send signs, others work tirelessly behind the scenes. Here's the troparion and kontakion for S. Andrew

Apostle Andrew




Troparion - Tone 4
 First-enthroned of the apostles,
 teachers of the universe:
 Entreat the Master of all
 to grant peace to the world,
 and to our souls great mercy!


Kontakion - Tone 2
 Today Christ the Rock glorifies with highest honor
 The rock of Faith and leader of the Apostles,
 Together with Paul and the company of the twelve,
 Whose memory we celebrate with eagerness of faith,
 Giving glory to the one who gave glory to them!
 
I hope that helps
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« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2011, 06:29:33 PM »

If you're drawn to Apostle Timon the Deacon of the Seventy, why not start up a relationship in prayer with him?

Troparion - Tone 3
 Holy apostle Timon of the Seventy;
 entreat the merciful;
 to grant our souls forgiveness of transgressions.


Kontakion - Tone 4
 The Church ever sees you as a shining star, O apostle Timon,
 Your miracles have manifested great enlightenment.
 Therefore we cry out to Christ:
 "Save those who with faith honor Your apostle, O Most Merciful One."

In my icon corner I have a diptych of Christ and the Theotokos. I also have icons of my patron St Aidan, and a crucifix. I have a secondary relic and icon of St Spyridon, of the Archangels Michael and Gabriel, and an icon card of St Seraphim of Sarov.

My most foolish mistake was to go my own way, buy in a lot of other icons of saints I don't really know and who don't seem to be the ones God has in mind for me. Now I pray I ask God to show me which icons to buy. I bought St Spyridon because the fragrance of myrrh came into my room when I put his relic there, and St Michael after the image of his icon gave me the gift of tears. As far as the saints go, the above are my best friends so far. The above icons are of saints who are special to me. I pray God will send me more.

Good call.  I was going to choose him as my patron, but I didnt know it would be more important to have one with the same name as you.  He is celebrated on my birthday.  However, I do have a question... Does the RC church celebrate different saints on different days?  Every time i search "saints celebrated on July 28th" i only find a couple of sources (which are Orthodox) that say Timon is celebrated on that day.  Do other churches view different people as saints? Or just celebrate them at different times?

Also, can Michael the Archangel be a patron? Or can he not because he is an angel?  Could someone help me find a list of saints named michael??? I cant hardly find any other than the angel...

The Archangel Michael (and Gabriel and the others) can indeed be a patron saint. He's mine, as a matter of fact.
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« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2011, 09:49:07 PM »

Christ to the right, Theotokos to the left. Just like on the iconostas in the church.

I think this is a good thing to have at the top/center of an icon corner. Your patron saint (once you find yours) is good to have too.

Imitation of the Church's common prayer is a good place to start with personal prayer, at least in my opinion.
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« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2011, 11:22:38 PM »

Quote
and an icon of the Holy Family to the right of center?

The "Holy Family" (St Joseph, the Mother of God and a young Christ, and often showing St Joseph with his arm around the Virgin) is imagery which is from non-Orthodox sources. It is not part of Orthodox tradition, nor is it compatible with Orthodox doctrine. Better that you get yourself an icon of St Joseph (holding a budding rod, or two doves, or a scroll with Is.7:14 written on it). Do not get one with him holding the Christ-child. Such imagery might be permissible and prevalent in non-Orthodox circles, but is completely unacceptable as an Orthodox icon.

Other, easily-obtainable icons where St Joseph is present are the Nativity of the Lord, the Meeting of the Lord, and the Flight into Egypt.

Sorry, just curious: why is this considered unacceptable? I have actually seen Greek Orthodox icons of St. Joseph holding the Child Jesus...
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« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2011, 11:56:15 PM »

Does anyone know any prayers to St. Andrew? For those of us who have him as our patron saint at least..

I don't really have much of a "relationship" with him, except in name only -- perhaps this can change..? I set up an icon of him in my room though next to St. Irenaeus.  Those 2 are my favourite saints by far..

Hi Andrew!

Here are some more prayers to Apostle Andrew, the first-called of the apostles:
   
Apolytikion in the Fourth Tone
As first of the Apostles to be called, O Andrew, brother of him [Peter] who was foremost, beseech the Master of all to grant the world peace and our souls great mercy.

Kontakion in the Second Tone
Let us praise the namesake of bravery, the divinely eloquent and first to be called of the Disciples of Christ, the kinsman of Peter. As he called out to him in days of old, so now he calls to us, "Come, we have found Him for whom we yearned."

You might also consider searching for the Akathist to St. Andrew. I have it in Slavonic – I’m sure it’s available in English somewhere… I find akathists to be extremely helpful in building relationships with saints. Here are a few excerpts (self-translated) from the akathist. Hopefully someone has a better translation :-P

(From Ikos 1)
Rejoice, disciple of the great Forerunner of Christ [John the Baptist];
Rejoice; you were the first of all apostles whom the Lord called to apostolic service.
Rejoice; you called to the other apostles, “Come, we have found the Messiah for Whom we yearned”;
Rejoice, for you also bring us to Him.
Rejoice, O Andrew, first-called apostle of Christ!

(From Ikos 12)
Rejoice, friend of Christ; you suffered the cross for His sake;
Rejoice, faithful apostle; you preached the words of eternal life from your cross.
Rejoice; you were covered with light, as with lightning, when you were taken down from the cross;
Rejoice; you promised great graces to those who confess Christ to be the Son of God.
Rejoice, the apostolic foundation of the heavenly Jerusalem;
Rejoice; you sit on one of twelve thrones with the other apostles, judging the tribes of Israel.
Rejoice, O Andrew, first-called apostle of Christ!

FYI - the Russians love St. Andrew.
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« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2011, 12:37:29 AM »

Quote
and an icon of the Holy Family to the right of center?

The "Holy Family" (St Joseph, the Mother of God and a young Christ, and often showing St Joseph with his arm around the Virgin) is imagery which is from non-Orthodox sources. It is not part of Orthodox tradition, nor is it compatible with Orthodox doctrine. Better that you get yourself an icon of St Joseph (holding a budding rod, or two doves, or a scroll with Is.7:14 written on it). Do not get one with him holding the Christ-child. Such imagery might be permissible and prevalent in non-Orthodox circles, but is completely unacceptable as an Orthodox icon.

Other, easily-obtainable icons where St Joseph is present are the Nativity of the Lord, the Meeting of the Lord, and the Flight into Egypt.

Sorry, just curious: why is this considered unacceptable? I have actually seen Greek Orthodox icons of St. Joseph holding the Child Jesus...

There are indeed images painted in an "iconographic" style of St Joseph holding the Christ-child, but these are painted in (I hope honest) ignorance of what the Orthodox Church teaches about St Joseph, Christ, and the Mother of God. Such images have their origin in non-Orthodox religious art, and have simply been copied by Orthodox iconographers, without questioning the imagery as to whether it conforms to Orthodox liturgical, doctrinal or iconographic tradition.

Icons, like hymnography, must proclaim and express what the Orthodox Church teaches. Icons are not simply religious art painted in a distinctive, non-realistic style.
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« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2011, 12:11:38 PM »

The "Holy Family" (St Joseph, the Mother of God and a young Christ, and often showing St Joseph with his arm around the Virgin) is imagery which is from non-Orthodox sources. It is not part of Orthodox tradition, nor is it compatible with Orthodox doctrine. Better that you get yourself an icon of St Joseph (holding a budding rod, or two doves, or a scroll with Is.7:14 written on it). Do not get one with him holding the Christ-child. Such imagery might be permissible and prevalent in non-Orthodox circles, but is completely unacceptable as an Orthodox icon.

Other, easily-obtainable icons where St Joseph is present are the Nativity of the Lord, the Meeting of the Lord, and the Flight into Egypt.

Hello! I understand that icons must conform to Orthodox doctrinal tradition. My question was more about why painting St. Joseph with the Child Jesus goes against Church teaching.
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« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2011, 04:42:50 PM »

PrayForUs,

I can't seem to find an akathist to St. Andrew on Google.  Do you know of where I could find an English version of it?
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« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2011, 06:03:45 PM »

The "Holy Family" (St Joseph, the Mother of God and a young Christ, and often showing St Joseph with his arm around the Virgin) is imagery which is from non-Orthodox sources. It is not part of Orthodox tradition, nor is it compatible with Orthodox doctrine. Better that you get yourself an icon of St Joseph (holding a budding rod, or two doves, or a scroll with Is.7:14 written on it). Do not get one with him holding the Christ-child. Such imagery might be permissible and prevalent in non-Orthodox circles, but is completely unacceptable as an Orthodox icon.

Other, easily-obtainable icons where St Joseph is present are the Nativity of the Lord, the Meeting of the Lord, and the Flight into Egypt.

Hello! I understand that icons must conform to Orthodox doctrinal tradition. My question was more about why painting St. Joseph with the Child Jesus goes against Church teaching.



This should help:

http://www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?1674-St-Joseph-the-Betrothed/page2
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« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2011, 06:42:33 PM »

This is Father's translation of his posting in Reply 7 above---Thanks Irish Hermit

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Святой Тимон был поставлен Апостолами во епископа города Бастории в Аравии и пострадал от иудеев и язычников за проповедь Евангелия. Он был брошен в печь, но силой Божией вышел из нее невредимым. Предание Римской Церкви говорит, что святой Тимон скончался распятым на кресте.

Saint Timon was made bishop by the Apostles of the city Bostra in Arabia, and  suffered from the Jews and Gentiles in preaching the gospel. He was thrown into an oven, but by the power of God came out of it unscathed. The tradition of the Roman Church says that the holy Timon died crucified on a cross.

О нем повествуется в книге Деяний апостольских (Деян. 6,1-7). Был епископом г. Бостры (в Аравии), где много пострадал за проповедь имени Христова и был брошен в огонь, но вышел из него невредимым. Затем был предан крестной смерти.

He is spoken of in the Acts of the Apostles (Acts 6,1-7). He was bishop of Bostra (in Arabia), where he suffered greatly for preaching the name of Christ and was thrown into a fire, but he emerged unharmed. Then he was put to death on the cross.


Святой апостол Тимон был одним из 7 диаконов, поставленных апостолами для помощи бедным христианским вдовам. Впоследствии он был избран епископом в городе Бостре Аравийском, многих привел к христианству и мученически скончался: его бросили в раскаленную печь.

The Holy Apostle Timon was one of the seven deacons, created by the apostles to help poor Christian widows. Subsequently, he was elected bishop in the Arabian city of  Bostra,  he led many to Christianity and died as a martyr: he was thrown into a burning furnace.

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« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2011, 10:54:08 PM »

PrayForUs,

I can't seem to find an akathist to St. Andrew on Google.  Do you know of where I could find an English version of it?

Hi Andrew,

I can't seem to find an English version of the Akathist online...Perhaps you can ask around at your church? Akathists usually come in service books with many different Akathists in the same book. I found a few English ones on Amazon, but none of them seem to contain an Akathist to St. Andrew.

I did, however, find the Vespers and Matins for St. Andrew's feast day at the location below. This service contains many hymns and prayers to St. Andrew, including two canons to him. The canons are loacted about a third of the way down. (Canons are composed of nine odes - the second ode is only read during Great Lent. The service contains them in the following order: All the first odes, then all the third, fourth odes, etc. The service on November 30 has three canons- one to the Mother of God and two to St. Andrew. So all the first odes come first, then third odes, etc.)

Here's the first ode of the first canon to St. Andrew (just so you know that you've found it in the text):

**********
First Canon of the Apostle.
A Composition of the Monk John.
Ode 1. Tone 1. Your triumphant right hand. [This is a reference to the irmos which is sung before the ode, but they don't print it here.]

Purify my soul, muddied by thoughts and words, Andrew, herald of Christ, by the divine grace which dwells in you, that in purity I may offer you a worthy hymn.

Christ’s Forerunner, shoot of a barren womb, rejoicing brought you, Andrew, as the precious cornerstone of his own Disciples to the one born of a Virgin, Christ, who has been glorified.

With love and unwavering longing you mounted the steps of virtue, and ever meditating on ascents, Andrew, from feeble power you attained the highest power.

Theotokion. [The last troparion of every canon is always a prayer to the Mother of God.]

Hail, fount of grace. Hail, ladder and gate of heaven. Hail, lampstand and golden jar, and mountain unhewn, who bore for the world Christ the giver of life.

**********
http://www.anastasis.org.uk/30nov.htm

Hope this helps!
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« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2011, 01:28:26 PM »

These are absolutely beautiful everyone on the thread "What does everyones icon corner look like?".  So I get the idea that if the Theotokos is on the left, then Christ should be at the middle, and John the Baptist should be on the right?  Or should you put another saint there..

  If that's the case, then the patron saint should be immediately below Christ.. front and center perhaps?  Where to put the guardian angel, and why is it so important to have only icons of saints which you feel a close connection with?
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