Definition of the Word Ousia in the OO Tradition

[Father Peter]

No, I don't think St Severus says that.

It is one thing to say that the humanity is hypostatic, as he does, and another to say that it is a hypostasis.

I think that for us hypostasis means the inner identity, where prosopon might mean external relational identity. For us, Christ is not only God the Word in an external relational sense (as Theodore of Mopsuestia would have agreed). But he is God the Word in an interior reality of identity.

The humanity is hypostatic, because it is a real instance of humanity with an interior identity, but that interior identity is God the Word who is incarnate in his own humanity. St Severus uses the concept of en-hypostasis before Leontius (even if there is debate at the present time about what Leontius actually means). We can say that the humanity of Christ finds its interior identity only in union with the Word of God because the Word of God is the interior identity of the humanity.

We can say that 'this man' is 'God the Word incarnate', not because the humanity is in an external relationship of grace, or favour, or will with God the Word, as Theodore proposed, but because the humanity is in a relationship of interior identity or hypostatic union with God the Word.

[Severian]

Oh yes, of course. I do realize that St. Severus did not teach that there existed two hypostases (or at least, not the way Nestorius would have it), but rather that the individually designated human nature subsisted by virtue of its unity with the Divine person. I was just wondering if Severian Christology attributed the suffering on the cross to the Divine hypostasis.

[Father Peter]

Surely all Orthodox Christology insists that the divine hypostasis of the Word suffered on the crossd?

[Severian]

Surely all Orthodox Christology insists that the divine hypostasis of the Word suffered on the crossd?

Of course, that's what I thought. Just checking.

[Father Peter]

This is the touchstone of Orthodoxy.

A person may confess that Christ is in two natures, but must also be able to confess that "one of the Holy Trinity suffered and died", to exclude the possibility of a Theodorean Christology. Theodore, Ibas, Theodoret, Nestorius etc could not confess that truly the Divine hypostasis of the Word of God experienced suffering and death.

Father Peter

[Severian]

There are some interesting comments on terms in this thread..

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,2422.15

I found it while googling for something entirely different. Interestingly enough I seem to have just joined OCnet at this time in 2003, and Linus7 says he is glad of my contributions (that shows that the post was from a very, very long time ago, before the great Chalcedon Wars of 2004. Where is Linus7 now?)

I wish Linus stuck around, I would have loved to have had some fun with him.

I am incredibly insulted, however, that he referred to HH Pope Shenouda as "Coptic Pope Shenouda". Do you hear me calling Pat. Theodorus II "Melkite Patriach Theodore II"?

*Shrugs his shoulders* But then again, that *is* the traditional language of our/the Church.

And I am very frustrated that he completely ignored all of the information and research that you brought to the various discussions you had with him. It's very sad some people ignore the facts simply to vindicate their confessional prejudices.

Why am I resurrecting this thread just to say this, some might ask? Well, I just had to get my feelings out there.

[Pikhristos Aftonf]

i don't know about you, but being called Coptic is perhaps the highest praise anyone can give me.
Melkite on the other hand is offensive because of its association with the bloody hands of the Roman emperors of late antiquity.
I am actually surprised they still take pride in being called melkites, if it was me, i would have tried to tone it down a bit

[Pikhristos Aftonf]

Also, severian,
you resurrect all the good threads, thanks for that. having joined OCnet recently, all the juicy Chalcedon threads are dead, it would be 'fun' to get a bit of Chalcedon discussions

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