Author Topic: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"  (Read 2061 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« on: August 14, 2011, 12:41:11 AM »
According to the OO tradition the monogenes was written by St Severus of Antioch, but in the Byzantine tradition it is said to have been written by Emperor Justinian. So could someone cite textual evidence which might indicate who actually wrote it? As an OO I believe that St Severus wrote it, but I am curious what "evidence" either side might cite to indicate who actually penned it.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 12:41:26 AM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline Salpy

  • Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,375
  • New Martyrs of Libya pray for us!
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2011, 12:49:45 AM »
I recall VasnTearn once saying that in the Armenian tradition it is attributed to St. Cyril. 

So who knows?   :)

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2011, 12:55:31 AM »
I recall VasnTearn once saying that in the Armenian tradition it is attributed to St. Cyril. 

So who knows?   :)
I think an article on Wikipedia attributes it to St Athanasius, so I guess you're right. :)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 12:56:07 AM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline Salpy

  • Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,375
  • New Martyrs of Libya pray for us!
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2011, 01:04:36 AM »

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,378
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian+Greek
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2011, 02:11:09 AM »
The actual author is probably lost to history. Justinian probably promulgated it as part of his reconciliation program, later on the Coptics attributed it to Severus and the Armenians to Cyril.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 02:13:52 AM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2011, 02:14:39 AM »
The actual author is probably lost to history. Justinian probably promulgated it, later on the Coptics attributed it to Severus and the Armenians to Cyril.
Just a note, the only time the word 'Coptic' is a noun is when it refers to the Coptic language. The Coptic people are known as "the Copts".  :)

God bless.
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,378
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian+Greek
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2011, 02:34:17 AM »
The actual author is probably lost to history. Justinian probably promulgated it, later on the Coptics attributed it to Severus and the Armenians to Cyril.
Just a note, the only time the word 'Coptic' is a noun is when it refers to the Coptic language. The Coptic people are known as "the Copts".  :)

God bless.
I was referring to the Coptic Orthodox Church. Is it still "Copts"? Sorry. :P
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2011, 02:38:19 AM »
The actual author is probably lost to history. Justinian probably promulgated it, later on the Coptics attributed it to Severus and the Armenians to Cyril.
Just a note, the only time the word 'Coptic' is a noun is when it refers to the Coptic language. The Coptic people are known as "the Copts".  :)

God bless.
I was referring to the Coptic Orthodox Church. Is it still "Copts"? Sorry. :P
Yes, it is. :) And don't worry about it. ;)
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2011, 08:41:49 AM »
For the sake of reference, here's the hymn:

Only-Begotten Son and Immortal Word of God,
Who for our salvation didst will to be incarnate of the holy Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary;
Who without change didst become man and was crucified;
Who art one of the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit:
O Christ our God, trampling down death by death, save us!
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline Salpy

  • Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,375
  • New Martyrs of Libya pray for us!
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2011, 08:44:27 PM »
A tangent was split off and put in the private forum:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,38980.0.html
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 08:44:45 PM by Salpy »

Offline biro

  • Excelsior
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,556
  • Leave me alone, I was only singing
    • Alaska Volcanoes
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2011, 09:02:54 PM »
I like to sing that one.  :)
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

--

And if I seem a little strange, well, that's because I am

Offline copticyouth93

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2011, 10:01:47 PM »
Severian, I always was taught that according to Coptic tradition, the author of this hymn was St. Athanasius. Do you have any Coptic references which refer to St. Severus?

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Re: Authorship of the Hymn "Monogenes"
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2011, 10:31:11 PM »
@Copticyouth93: This thread actually talks about that: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13023.0.html

Reply #16 is particularly helpful.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 10:43:09 PM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.