Author Topic: Liturgical abuse celebrated by pope Francis  (Read 175 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mountain

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 191
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox Church
Liturgical abuse celebrated by pope Francis
« on: February 08, 2016, 05:46:19 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_YHpffNUrg hahaha, he was cardinal back then.

What is wrong with them...
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 05:46:33 AM by Mountain »
"It is over! The fortress is taken! What can man do against such reckless hate?"

Online Asteriktos

  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 33,368
Re: Liturgical abuse celebrated by pope Francis
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2016, 05:54:42 AM »
I'm not very familiar with Catholic services--which part is the abuse? Also, what does that mean exactly, 'abuse'?
"I, Lucian, wrote this, I who am skilled in what is old and foolish; For what men think wise is foolish. So then nothing that the mind of man can conceive is certain; What you admire, seems ridiculous to others." - St. Lucian of Antioch

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,055
  • Faith: Pseudo-Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Liturgical abuse celebrated by pope Francis
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2016, 06:04:57 AM »
I'm not very familiar with Catholic services--which part is the abuse? Also, what does that mean exactly, 'abuse'?

I'm guessing:

Women speaking
Altar girls
Nonstandard music
Clapping
The celebrant is not the only one speaking
The big Jesus balloon

Of course, as Mountain has acknowledged before (and which makes me think he's just trolling now), from the Orthodox point of view the traditional Latin Mass is a perversion anyway.
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

Rome doesn't care. Rome is actually very cool guy.

Offline Alpo

  • Lying Chalcedonian Liar
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,062
Re: Liturgical abuse celebrated by pope Francis
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2016, 06:15:23 AM »
The Orthodox stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this Catholic.
- 2. Epistle to the Netodox 3:17
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,055
  • Faith: Pseudo-Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Liturgical abuse celebrated by pope Francis
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2016, 07:07:42 AM »
The Orthodox stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this Catholic.
- 2. Epistle to the Netodox 3:17

"And lo, it came to pass that the winning of an internetz was bestowed upon Alpo. And yea verily, it was good."
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

Rome doesn't care. Rome is actually very cool guy.

Offline wgw

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,090
  • The above Syriac icon is of St. Athansius.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Syriac Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch
Re: Liturgical abuse celebrated by pope Francis
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2016, 08:31:53 AM »
I'm not very familiar with Catholic services--which part is the abuse? Also, what does that mean exactly, 'abuse'?

Strictly speaking, a departure fro, the rubrics and liturgical guidance of the Roman church.

I'm not very familiar with Catholic services--which part is the abuse? Also, what does that mean exactly, 'abuse'?

I'm guessing:

Women speaking
Altar girls
Nonstandard music
Clapping
The celebrant is not the only one speaking
The big Jesus balloon

Of course, as Mountain has acknowledged before (and which makes me think he's just trolling now), from the Orthodox point of view the traditional Latin Mass is a perversion anyway.

The extent to which it might be a perversion is, I would argue, limited to the practical implications of the Schism, communion in one species, and, one might argue, the relatively weak epiclesis.  It's worth noting that the Antiochian Western Rite Vicarate and other WRO jurisdictions use something very similiar to the Tridentine mass, but with communion in both kinds using prosphora, a more explicit epiclesis and certain other adjustments in the form of the pre-communion prayer and so on, which one might regard as "structural repairs."

On the other hand, the Novus Ordo Missae as commonly celebrated is entirely unacceptable.  I believe the three year lectionary, the pattern of lections in the liturgy, the response to scripture lessons, the structure of the anaphorae, such as it is, celebration versus populum and other related practices, take  together (as opposed to viewed individually) render the Novus Ordo Missae broadly unacceotable from an Orthodox perspective.

I feel strongly enough anout this to argue that a return to a modified form of the old rites ought to be a precondition for Orthodox-Catholic reconciliation.  Which is reconciliation I personally desire, however, my desire for Rome to rejoin the holy Orthodox church organically, is exceeded by my desire to never in my lifetime be subjected to a guitar liturgy.

Offline wynd

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 553
  • Transfiguration
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Liturgical abuse celebrated by pope Francis
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 12:06:03 PM »
On the other hand, the Novus Ordo Missae as commonly celebrated is entirely unacceptable.  I believe the three year lectionary, the pattern of lections in the liturgy, the response to scripture lessons, the structure of the anaphorae, such as it is, celebration versus populum and other related practices, take  together (as opposed to viewed individually) render the Novus Ordo Missae broadly unacceotable from an Orthodox perspective.

I feel strongly enough anout this to argue that a return to a modified form of the old rites ought to be a precondition for Orthodox-Catholic reconciliation.  Which is reconciliation I personally desire, however, my desire for Rome to rejoin the holy Orthodox church organically, is exceeded by my desire to never in my lifetime be subjected to a guitar liturgy.

What's wrong with the three-year lectionary, and what do you mean by the response to Scripture lessons? I agree with you on the rest.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,420
  • This dog's body intentionally left blank
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Liturgical abuse celebrated by pope Francis
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2016, 01:00:26 PM »
Of course, as Mountain has acknowledged before (and which makes me think he's just trolling now), from the Orthodox point of view the traditional Latin Mass is a perversion anyway.

It would be nice if "Pseudo-Christians" didn't always feel like presenting "the Orthodox point of view" on things, especially when they get it wrong. 
This is a great day for this forum and for the internet. Mor's energies like a burning comet are raining possibilities for enlightenment upon us all.

Everyone wants Mor.

Mor, you're a jackass.