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Author Topic: Muhammad's letter to the St. Catherine's Monastery Monks  (Read 1349 times) Average Rating: 0
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GTAsoldier
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GTAsoldier
« on: August 13, 2011, 12:55:31 PM »

I don't know if any of you have read this, but I found this via a orthodox christian's tumblr page and also here on a page of the examiner. It's a letter written in 628 by Islam's prophet Muhammad towards the Monks at St. Catherine's monastery in Sinai. He says that his followers should not attack Christians and should defend them. With all the violence that's going on in Egypt between the Muslims there and the Copts, it's clear to me that those militants there (as well in other areas of the middle east) aren't heeding to his message. Here the English translation (sourced from 'Muslim History: 570 - 1950 C.E.' by Dr. A. Zahoor and Dr. Z. Haq, ZMD Corporation.):

Continue reading on Examiner.com Letter to all Christians from Prophet Muhammad - National Islam | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/islam-in-national/letter-to-all-christians-from-prophet-muhammad#ixzz1UvduuSbp
:

Quote
“This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”

What say ye, Orthodox brethren?
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ialmisry
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2011, 12:58:11 PM »

I don't know if any of you have read this, but I found this via a orthodox christian's tumblr page and also here on a page of the examiner. It's a letter written in 628 by Islam's prophet Muhammad towards the Monks at St. Catherine's monastery in Sinai. He says that his followers should not attack Christians and should defend them. With all the violence that's going on in Egypt between the Muslims there and the Copts, it's clear to me that those militants there (as well in other areas of the middle east) aren't heeding to his message. Here the English translation (sourced from 'Muslim History: 570 - 1950 C.E.' by Dr. A. Zahoor and Dr. Z. Haq, ZMD Corporation.):

Continue reading on Examiner.com Letter to all Christians from Prophet Muhammad - National Islam | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/islam-in-national/letter-to-all-christians-from-prophet-muhammad#ixzz1UvduuSbp
:

Quote
“This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”

What say ye, Orthodox brethren?
It's a forgery. Not that that matters.
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
GTAsoldier
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GTAsoldier
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2011, 01:04:41 PM »

How so?
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Quote from: IoanC
the best way of conveying God's love to people is through your own presence and deeds.
No longer posting on this forum. Thanks to all the helpful people who inspired me. God bless.
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2011, 01:07:54 PM »

I don't know if any of you have read this, but I found this via a orthodox christian's tumblr page and also here on a page of the examiner. It's a letter written in 628 by Islam's prophet Muhammad towards the Monks at St. Catherine's monastery in Sinai. He says that his followers should not attack Christians and should defend them. With all the violence that's going on in Egypt between the Muslims there and the Copts, it's clear to me that those militants there (as well in other areas of the middle east) aren't heeding to his message. Here the English translation (sourced from 'Muslim History: 570 - 1950 C.E.' by Dr. A. Zahoor and Dr. Z. Haq, ZMD Corporation.):

Continue reading on Examiner.com Letter to all Christians from Prophet Muhammad - National Islam | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/islam-in-national/letter-to-all-christians-from-prophet-muhammad#ixzz1UvduuSbp
:

Quote
“This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”

What say ye, Orthodox brethren?
It's a forgery. Not that that matters.

Do you have more information?
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ialmisry
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2011, 01:28:09 PM »

I don't know if any of you have read this, but I found this via a orthodox christian's tumblr page and also here on a page of the examiner. It's a letter written in 628 by Islam's prophet Muhammad towards the Monks at St. Catherine's monastery in Sinai. He says that his followers should not attack Christians and should defend them. With all the violence that's going on in Egypt between the Muslims there and the Copts, it's clear to me that those militants there (as well in other areas of the middle east) aren't heeding to his message. Here the English translation (sourced from 'Muslim History: 570 - 1950 C.E.' by Dr. A. Zahoor and Dr. Z. Haq, ZMD Corporation.):

Continue reading on Examiner.com Letter to all Christians from Prophet Muhammad - National Islam | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/islam-in-national/letter-to-all-christians-from-prophet-muhammad#ixzz1UvduuSbp
:

Quote
“This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”

What say ye, Orthodox brethren?
It's a forgery. Not that that matters.

Do you have more information?
yes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achtiname_of_Muhammad

Yes, I can provide more than wikipedia, but I'm not in the mood right now, and this my main objection to its "authenticity"
Quote
The traditional explanation which accounts for the loss of the original claims that during the Conquest of Egypt by the Ottoman sultan Selim I in 1517, the original document was seized from the monastery by Ottoman soldiers and taken to Selim's palace at Constantinople.  A copy was then made to compensate for its loss at the monastery.
the prominent handprint, which is at the time was the explanation of the Ottoman Ṭuğrā
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tugra
makes me suspicious.  IIRC the God-trod Holy Mt. had charters from the Fatimids, which do not mention anything from their ancestor.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2011, 02:55:27 PM »

It doesn't really matter whether it is forgery or not. Militant Muslims believe that their version of Islam is the most correct form of Islam and they won't probably be convinced if bunch of Christians try to argue otherwise.
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2011, 03:12:15 PM »

It doesn't really matter whether it is forgery or not. Militant Muslims believe that their version of Islam is the most correct form of Islam and they won't probably be convinced if bunch of Christians try to argue otherwise.

That's how I feel. Even if we could prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that it's authentic, I doubt that the persecution of the Copts would stop.
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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2011, 05:18:36 PM »

It doesn't really matter whether it is forgery or not. Militant Muslims believe that their version of Islam is the most correct form of Islam and they won't probably be convinced if bunch of Christians try to argue otherwise.

That's how I feel. Even if we could prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that it's authentic, I doubt that the persecution of the Copts would stop.

Of course. In matters such as these, the dispute is not about religion at all but about other grievances wrapped up in religion. Does anyone think that The Troubles would have stopped if the Pope proclaimed that all Catholics who continued to fight would be excommunicated? Even if the caliphate were restored and the caliph said that Israel should be left alone, the blood would continue.

Many times, people are much more concerned with identifying with a certain religion than actually practicing its precepts.
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GTAsoldier
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GTAsoldier
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2011, 05:59:42 PM »

Many times, people are much more concerned with identifying with a certain religion than actually practicing its precepts.

That's true.
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God be merciful to us sinners.

Quote from: IoanC
the best way of conveying God's love to people is through your own presence and deeds.
No longer posting on this forum. Thanks to all the helpful people who inspired me. God bless.
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