Topic: Scandinavian Orthodoxy

[Orthodox11]

I don't mean to advocate anything but if there is an area without fully functioning Orthodox parish or without local Orthodox priest who actually live in the midst of his parishioners why would it be a total disaster if some priest wanted to set up a WR parish in that kind of area?

Who would this priest be? If there's no one to serve the existing small group of Orthodox, shall we bring in a new priest to serve an even smaller group of people rather than ministering to the needs of those already there? Would seem like terrible mismanagement, no?

[Alpo]

I don't mean to advocate anything but if there is an area without fully functioning Orthodox parish or without local Orthodox priest who actually live in the midst of his parishioners why would it be a total disaster if some priest wanted to set up a WR parish in that kind of area?

Who would this priest be? If there's no one to serve the existing small group of Orthodox, shall we bring in a new priest to serve an even smaller group of people rather than ministering to the needs of those already there? Would seem like terrible mismanagement, no?

I was speaking theoretically. I've no idea who that priest would be.

Why would a WR priest serve only smaller community? If there is no ER priest available this theoretical WR priest could minister all of the Orthodox in the area regardless of cultural background. A priest is a priest and sacraments are sacraments no matter the rite.

[celticfan1888]

I don't mean to advocate anything but if there is an area without fully functioning Orthodox parish or without local Orthodox priest who actually live in the midst of his parishioners why would it be a total disaster if some priest wanted to set up a WR parish in that kind of area?

Who would this priest be? If there's no one to serve the existing small group of Orthodox, shall we bring in a new priest to serve an even smaller group of people rather than ministering to the needs of those already there? Would seem like terrible mismanagement, no?

Now that I think about it:

You could bring in maybe one traveling ROCOR WR priest to start out with, and see how it does. Maybe just in Oslo, Bergen, and/or Trondhjem to start with.

A lot of these parishes around the country don't have a permanent priest, so I really don't see how it would "hurt" Orthodoxy in the areas in anyway to have a change of Rite. It obviously doesn't (and shouldn't) need to be every congregation, but maybe just one or two. If anything, maybe Western Rite will make people feel a little more familiar (in a sense) to experience it.

But I'm no expert.

[celticfan1888]

Does anyone know where I can get the number of Orthodox in Norway? The wiki doesn't give a number, but I am guessing...maybe 8,000 across the country (who are members, not necessarily attend weekly)?

http://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den_ortodokse_kyrkja_i_Noreg

[Alpo]

I don't know how things work in Norway but in Finland there are many immigrant EOs who doesn't ever officiallly register as a member of the Church despite being sacramentally a member of the Church. Most of the World doesn't work as bureuecratically as Scandinavian socialism does.

[ialmisry]

I don't mean to advocate anything but if there is an area without fully functioning Orthodox parish or without local Orthodox priest who actually live in the midst of his parishioners why would it be a total disaster if some priest wanted to set up a WR parish in that kind of area?

Who would this priest be? If there's no one to serve the existing small group of Orthodox, shall we bring in a new priest to serve an even smaller group of people rather than ministering to the needs of those already there? Would seem like terrible mismanagement, no?

It was terrible mismanagement which shut the door on the Nordic Catholic Church.  We could have had a whole WRO Church in Norway.

[Alpo]

It was terrible mismanagement which shut the door on the Nordic Catholic Church.  We could have had a whole WRO Church in Norway.

Any source? You've said that quite often but I've seen nothingabout it on online interviews etc. Do you have Norwegian contacts or something?

IMO rite is a secondary question in conversion. If one believes that Orthodoxy is the Church one will convert even if local bishop doesn't grant permisson for WRO.

[Gorazd]

If they want to be Orthodox, they should affirm Orthodox ecclesiology, rather than the branch theory. And any kind of intercommunion with low-chburch Anglican Calvinists is absolutely incompatible with Orthodoxy, even if those are conservatives who reject gay marriage...

[Alpo]

If they want to be Orthodox, they should affirm Orthodox ecclesiology, rather than the branch theory. And any kind of intercommunion with low-chburch Anglican Calvinists is absolutely incompatible with Orthodoxy, even if those are conservatives who reject gay marriage...

Huh? Are you talking about Nordic Catholic Church? I thought they were in communion only with PNCC.

[Gorazd]

If they want to be Orthodox, they should affirm Orthodox ecclesiology, rather than the branch theory. And any kind of intercommunion with low-chburch Anglican Calvinists is absolutely incompatible with Orthodoxy, even if those are conservatives who reject gay marriage...

Huh? Are you talking about Nordic Catholic Church? I thought they were in communion only with PNCC.

At the moment, yes. But there are talks between the Union of Scranton and ACNA to establish a kind of Bonn Agreement.

[Ansgar]

A syriac liturgy in Sweden 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgKxiLqHoHA

[JorgenThorbjørnsen]

My church in Halmstad has a larger congregation than I've seen anywhere else in a Scandinavian country. What are your average attendances?

[Ansgar]

We are a small congregation. About 30-40, I think.

[JorgenThorbjørnsen]

We are a small congregation. About 30-40, I think.

That is truly not that bad.

We have probably 200 in Halmstad, seems ridiculous, but I kid you not.

[Orthodox11]

En ortodoks prest i Aftenposten.

Velsignet være kullkraften

"Den serbisk-ortodokse presten fader Rodney Torbic i Carmichaels, Pennsylvania er vant til å ha kullkraftverket som nærmeste nabo. Kirken hans har vært der siden området var et av USAs mest veldstående."

[Orthodox11]

Made a new thread

[ialmisry]

It was terrible mismanagement which shut the door on the Nordic Catholic Church.  We could have had a whole WRO Church in Norway.

Any source? You've said that quite often but I've seen nothingabout it on online interviews etc. Do you have Norwegian contacts or something?

IMO rite is a secondary question in conversion. If one believes that Orthodoxy is the Church one will convert even if local bishop doesn't grant permisson for WRO.

Somewhere I posted the Touchstone Article where the NKK pretty says that, but yes, I have contacts which tell the grittier truth.  In this case the local bishop doesn't grant permission for Scandinavians, i.e. Orthodoxy is strictly an immigrant thing.

[ialmisry]

Does anyone know where I can get the number of Orthodox in Norway? The wiki doesn't give a number, but I am guessing...maybe 8,000 across the country (who are members, not necessarily attend weekly)?

http://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den_ortodokse_kyrkja_i_Noreg

I don't know.  The contacts I've had with Norwegian Orthodox can't give an exact number, especially outside of Oslo.

[Ansgar]

I need some help.

http://kyrillos.dinstudio.se/

I have never heard about them before.

[Tommelomsky]

Avoid them. They are not in canonical OK state. The russians (ROCOR) totally avoids them and so should serbs, greeks and others do too.
Before anyone tells me what a fool I am to say this: many people at my parish that has been there since the beginning in 1995 has told me this in a crystal clear way that cannot and should not be misunderstood.

[Orthodox11]

I need some help.

http://kyrillos.dinstudio.se/

I have never heard about them before.

They're not Orthodox, they're just playing dress-up. Some of them are active on FB, part of 'Hellige Olavs Ortodokse Brorskap', just so you know who to avoid.

[Ansgar]

Thanks.

[Suryoyutho]

I was asked to write something about Oriental Orthodoxy in Scandinavia here. I don't really know what to write but the Syriac Church is big in Scandinavia (especielly Sweden). Besides some of the homelands the Church is probably biggest in Sweden with Germany pretty much even. My Church for example has around 1300-1400 members I believe. The other OO Churches aren't that strong in Scandinavia but all of them have congregations here in Sweden.

So if anyone has any questions, feel free.

[Dominika]

I was asked to write something about Oriental Orthodoxy in Scandinavia here. I don't really know what to write but the Syriac Church is big in Scandinavia (especielly Sweden). Besides some of the homelands the Church is probably biggest in Sweden with Germany pretty much even. My Church for example has around 1300-1400 members I believe. The other OO Churches aren't that strong in Scandinavia but all of them have congregations here in Sweden.

So if anyone has any questions, feel free.

Yeah, I've heard there are a lot Syriacs in Sweden. So my question is why particulary Sweden? Do you work more as missionary parishes or as for cradles? What's the language of sermons (as for Liturgy I think it's syriac, isn't it?)?

[Suryoyutho]

Yeah, I've heard there are a lot Syriacs in Sweden. So my question is why particulary Sweden? Do you work more as missionary parishes or as for cradles? What's the language of sermons (as for Liturgy I think it's syriac, isn't it?)?

It's a good country for people fleeing and who were in our situation I guess (especially at that time). Some went and people followed.

Much more for cradles but there are Swedes who have converted to the Church, some even involved in the Church now (f.ex. youth associations).

Mostly Syriac but in some (few in Sweden) they mix Arabic (depends on where the majority of the congregation is from).

[Ansgar]

I can't tell how many syrians we have, but I think that the copts are probably the most visible in Denmark. We also have a considerable number of ethiopians.

The copts have a beautiful little church in Tåstrup. 

[Suryoyutho]

Nice Church

Coptic Church growing in Sweden as well: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48743.0.html

[Ansgar]

Nice 

The coptic priest has stated that he would very much like to celebrate the liturgy in danish at some point in the future.

[Jason.Wike]

I need some help.

http://kyrillos.dinstudio.se/

I have never heard about them before.

Rule 73 of the internets: If they have a crappy website, they're not legit (exs. "Old Catholics," otherkin, ancient Celtick Wicca covens that were persecuted by Puritans in the middle ages etc).

[Alpo]

So my question is why particulary Sweden?

Liberal immigration policy? AFAIK there's lots of every kinds of immigrants  in Sweden.

Suryoyutho, are you aware of any OO parish in Scandinavia which has services in a Scandinavian language? What about any interest in Scandinavian Saints?

[Suryoyutho]

Suryoyutho, are you aware of any OO parish in Scandinavia which has services in a Scandinavian language? What about any interest in Scandinavian Saints?

Nope, but I've only attended Syriac services. Reminds me of my Church as a child where they held the services in Syriac, Arabic, and Kurdish, on Christmas/Easter it started at like 7-8 AM and ended at 12-1 PM. Quite tough at that age.

No, not much interest that I know of. But St Lucy's day is quite big in Sweden (even if she wasn't Scandinavian) and that tradition has kinda come into the Church . I know St Lucy is a saint in the EO Churches but not sure about OO, even though she lived before the councils.

[Alpo]

Kurdish?! There are Syriac Orthodox Kurds?

[Dominika]

Kurdish?! There are Syriac Orthodox Kurds?

Or rather Syriacs from Turkey and Iraq who due to living with Kurds for ages have started to talk their language, because it's more common and living language than Syriac/late Aramean

[Alpo]

Thanks. I should have thought that option too.

In my small corner of the World being able to speak Finnish an being a Finn are almost synonymous so I have hard time understanding other kind of cultures.

[Ansgar]

A finnish liturgy 

http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1748123

[Alpo]

A finnish liturgy 

http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1748123

Just in case anyone is interested, Swedish version of the same website can be found here:

http://arenan.yle.fi/tv

"YLE" is Finnish public broadcasting company and this website is their streaming service. As the Finnish Orthodox Church is the second state church, that website offers Orthodox services from time to time. I don't know how often though.

[Cantor Krishnich]

A finnish liturgy 

http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1748123

Just in case anyone is interested, Swedish version of the same website can be found here:

http://arenan.yle.fi/tv

"YLE" is Finnish public broadcasting company and this website is their streaming service. As the Finnish Orthodox Church is the second state church, that website offers Orthodox services from time to time. I don't know how often though.

I want to see the Orthodox liturgy in Sami, that would be cool!

[Alpo]

I want to see the Orthodox liturgy in Sami, that would be cool!

You're not the first one here who says that. Travel agencies have done their job well.

[Cantor Krishnich]

You're not the first one here who says that. Travel agencies have done their job well.

But are there any ethnic Sami Orthodox Christians?

[Alpo]

You're not the first one here who says that. Travel agencies have done their job well.

But are there any ethnic Sami Orthodox Christians?

Skolt Samis are Orthodox. However I don't know whether any of the liturgical texts are translated into their language. Probably something but I believe not entirely.

[Ansgar]

There was an orthodox reburial of some Skolt Samis back in 2011

 http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/troms_og_finnmark/1.7809234

[Cantor Krishnich]

Kurdish?! There are Syriac Orthodox Kurds?

Or rather Syriacs from Turkey and Iraq who due to living with Kurds for ages have started to talk their language, because it's more common and living language than Syriac/late Aramean

And the many Kurds who are converting to Christianity via the Syriac Churches and Protestantism. From what I've read, Kurds have been in the Syriac church for a long time...

[Ansgar]

Pictures from Theophany (not mine) 

[WPM]

It looks like European village Orthodoxy and not one of the bigger Metropolitan establishments.

[Ansgar]

You could call it that. It's a suburb outside of Copenhagen.