Topic: Scandinavian Orthodoxy

[Ansgar]

hi friends!
do u have any resources in finnish or about orthodoxy in finland?
i have a finnish friend who is orthodox, but he doesn't live in finland at the moment.
thanks
 

Oriental or eastern orthodox?

[Alpo]

hi friends!
do u have any resources in finnish or about orthodoxy in finland?
i have a finnish friend who is orthodox, but he doesn't live in finland at the moment.
thanks
 

Did he/she have something specific in mind?

[mabsoota]

oriental, but eastern resources also useful.
nothing specific, thanks 

[Alpo]

oriental, but eastern resources also useful.
nothing specific, thanks  

A Finnish Oriental Orthodox Christian I didn't that such people exist.

I know hardly anything about Oriental Orthodoxy in Finland. I know that there has been Ethiopian OO services in Helsinki's EO parish's chapel and there is some Ethiopian community or parish in Helsinki but I don't think they have any actual church building and their priest lives in Denmark so I don't think they have much services or anything. I don't live in Helsinki but I've heard that many OO christians attend local EO services there. As for the other cities and communes, I haven't heard any other OO communities. I guess there are some OO immigrants at least in larger cities but that's about it.

As of EO church of Finland, here is the the official website. Two other fairly good sites are Ortodoksi.net which is sort of overall databank about all Orthodox-related things and Tsasouna.net in which a Finnish priest has published numerous articles about teaching of the Fathers and the Church. Here is the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Finnish and in English and in case your friend a Swedish-speaking Finn here is the liturgy in Swedish. If your friend understands Finnish he/she might find these interesting.

[Ansgar]

I have finally been able to find a site where you can watch pictures of the coptic church in Denmark. 

Just scroll down one the page
 http://www.dr.dk/P1/Stedsans/Udsendelser/2009/03/17180238.htm

[mabsoota]

thanks, friends
God bless u and may you have a beautiful Christmas fast and feast
 

[celticfan1888]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

[Ansgar]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Really? Do you know the name?

[Alpo]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian!

Why? There is a Norwegian priest or there are many Norwegian immigrants in that area?

[Volnutt]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian!

Why? There is a Norwegian priest or there are many Norwegian immigrants in that area?

Lot of Scandinavian ancestry and strong cultural ties in Minnesota, might be some kind of bilingual community.

[ialmisry]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian!

Why? There is a Norwegian priest or there are many Norwegian immigrants in that area?

When I was in Finland, I met a Finn who had visited his aunt for the summer/half a year in the Upper Peninsula

He had hoped to practice his English.  She, however, lived in a town where everyone spoke Finnish, and so he used his English for only 1-2 weeks, when they went to Detroit.

I had a friend in grammar school whose family sent the children back to Minnesota every year to keep up their Finnish, and to have them confirmed at the Finnish church when that came about.

On the Norwegians:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Minnesotan#Norwegian_communities_in_Minnesota
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language#Norwegian_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language#Norwegian_language_by_state

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Norwegian1346.gif
Enig og tro til Dovre faller


I recall a while back that a few Lutheran pastors and their families embraced Orthodoxy (as the Lutherans embraced apostacy more and more). Maybe it's part of that trend.

[ialmisry]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Winter.

[Alpo]

She, however, lived in a town where everyone spoke Finnish, and so he used his English for only 1-2 weeks, when they went to Detroit.

LOL. I've heard that there are quite many Finnish-speaking Americans in some areas but that is little more than I expected.

If I moved to US I wouldn't like to live in that kind of area. What's the point of moving to foreign country and living in a Finnish ghetto?

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Winter.

Winter is actually rather good reason to move to somewhere.

[celticfan1888]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Winter.

There is no such thing as winter in Louisiana. 

[celticfan1888]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Really? Do you know the name?

I'm almost 100% it was St. Olav Orthodox Church (Who would've guessed right? lol)

[celticfan1888]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian!

Why? There is a Norwegian priest or there are many Norwegian immigrants in that area?

MANY Norwegian immigrants

[Ansgar]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Really? Do you know the name?

I'm almost 100% it was St. Olav Orthodox Church (Who would've guessed right? lol)

Is it this one?
http://netministries.org/churches.aspx/?ch=ch04576&frame=N

[Volnutt]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Really? Do you know the name?

I'm almost 100% it was St. Olav Orthodox Church (Who would've guessed right? lol)

Is it this one?
http://netministries.org/churches.aspx/?ch=ch04576&frame=N

Those guys seem schismatic.

[Ansgar]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Really? Do you know the name?

I'm almost 100% it was St. Olav Orthodox Church (Who would've guessed right? lol)

Is it this one?
http://netministries.org/churches.aspx/?ch=ch04576&frame=N

Those guys seem schismatic.

They are. I think they call their church the 'English nordic orthodox church' or something like that.

[Orthodox11]

I think they call their church the 'English nordic orthodox church' or something like that.

A western rite church that isn't in Communion with any of the Orthodox... In other words, it's a conservative Anglican church.

[Orthodox11]

The short melodies for Lord, I have cried (Psalm 140) in all the 8 tones (Norwegian Bokmål with Byzantine notation).

De korte melodiene til Herre, jeg roper (Salme 140) i alle de 8 tonene.

[Gorazd]

Last week, I visited this monastery in Sweden:
http://www.crkva.se/kloster.htm
They use Swedish as their liturgical language.

I highly recommend it to everyone in Scandinavia, who wants to get an authentic impression of Orthodoxy.

[Ansgar]

Perfect. Now we are the only one in Scandinavia who desn't have a monastery 

[Gorazd]

Perfect. Now we are the only one in Scandinavia who desn't have a monastery 

Don't think so negatively. Visit the monastery instead, it's not so far from you.

And if you want a monastery in Denmark, why don't you found one? You could use the existing Norwegian Bokmål texts, and change a bit of spelling and pronounciation, then it's already Danish.

[Ansgar]

Don't think so negatively. Visit the monastery instead, it's not so far from you.

Of course  but i'm a dane, so I have to complain about Norway and Sweden having things we don't have.

And if you want a monastery in Denmark, why don't you found one? You could use the existing Norwegian Bokmål texts, and change a bit of spelling and pronounciation, then it's already Danish.

I could, but it would be pretty difficult. I mean, I would have to raise money, write to a bishop, find monks/nuns etc.

Could be nice though 

[Ansgar]

That monastery really have a beutiful church 

[Ansgar]

Happy Pascha to all the finns

Kristus nousi kuolleista! Totisesti nousi!

[Orthodox11]

Kristus er oppstanden fra de døde, med døden nedtrampet Han døden, og til dem i gravene gav Han liv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWkSc--DRkc&feature=related

God Påske!

[Alpo]

Kristus er oppstanden fra de døde, med døden nedtrampet Han døden, og til dem i gravene gav Han liv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWkSc--DRkc&feature=related

God Påske!

Sannerligen Han är uppstånden!

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

[Ansgar]

Kristus er Opstanden! 

[ialmisry]

Kristus er oppstanden!

Kristus er oppstanden fra de døde, med døden nedtrampet Han døden, og til dem i gravene gav Han liv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWkSc--DRkc&feature=related

God Påske!

Sannerligen Han är uppstånden!

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

That's because they were Orthodox.  St. Olaf spent plenty of time among the Rus'.  One of the earliest Churches to him was in Novgorod, and the earliest image of him is from Bethlehem.

[Alpo]

Kristus er oppstanden!

Kristus er oppstanden fra de døde, med døden nedtrampet Han døden, og til dem i gravene gav Han liv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWkSc--DRkc&feature=related

God Påske!

Sannerligen Han är uppstånden!

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

That's because they were Orthodox.  St. Olaf spent plenty of time among the Rus'.  One of the earliest Churches to him was in Novgorod, and the earliest image of him is from Bethlehem.

However I was speaking in a little different sense. Theologically and theoretically speaking there's loads of Orthodox architecture in the West but most of that doesn't necessarily look Orthodox on the level of gut feeling since WRO is just a hypothesis for most of us living in the old continent. For some reason these Norwegian Stave Churches besides being theoretically Orthodox also look Orthodox. A Byzantine service in a Gothic church would probably look a little out of place but I could imagine one being celebrated in a Stave church.

[Orthodox11]

the earliest image of him is from Bethlehem.

I didn't know this. Do you have a picture?

[Orthodox11]

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

They're incredibly beautiful, such a shame so few remain standing. A couple of them still have some of the original iconography in tact. If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to build one complete with iconostasis. Alas, I doubt that will ever happen, especially since I never play the lottery.


Wall painting from Gol stavkirke.

[Ansgar]

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

They're incredibly beautiful, such a shame so few remain standing. A couple of them still have some of the original iconography in tact. If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to build one complete with iconostasis. Alas, I doubt that will ever happen, especially since I never play the lottery.


Wall painting from Gol stavkirke.

I saw this church when I was on vacation in Norway last year. Only on the outside, sadly.

[Alpo]

Awesome. For some reason I though their walls were bare white. Probably associated them with more recent wooden Finnish Lutheran churches which was fairly foolish now that I think of it. I hope that some day EOs revive the use of that kind of native iconography.

[ialmisry]

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

They're incredibly beautiful, such a shame so few remain standing. A couple of them still have some of the original iconography in tact. If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to build one complete with iconostasis. Alas, I doubt that will ever happen, especially since I never play the lottery.


Wall painting from Gol stavkirke.

This is an interesting representation of St. Olaf's life on a stavkirke's door

[ialmisry]

the earliest image of him is from Bethlehem.

I didn't know this. Do you have a picture?

http://arneberge.wordpress.com/2009/07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trondheim_byarkiv/4103558871/

[Orthodox11]

http://arneberge.wordpress.com/2009/07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trondheim_byarkiv/4103558871/

Awesome. Thanks. I'm very annoyed that I didn't know to look out for this when I visited some years ago.

[Alpo]

I'm very annoyed that I didn't know to look out for this when I visited some years ago.

+ 1

St. Olaf might be a Norwegian but he used to be hugely popular in Finland too. Even to the point that Swedish authorities became worried because he was more popular than the Swedish Saints.

[ialmisry]

Christ er opstanden!

http://arneberge.wordpress.com/2009/07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trondheim_byarkiv/4103558871/

Awesome. Thanks. I'm very annoyed that I didn't know to look out for this when I visited some years ago.

Ditto. But then I was Lutheran when I was there, so there was a lot I missed.  Fortunately, I made it to Jerusalem and the environs (Bethlehem wasn't within range, things were that bad) again, to do that right.

Btw, the photo is before WWI.  It is not as clear today.  The second link shows what it looks like now.

[Orthodox11]

Happy Halsok!

Under Olav den Helliges regjeringstid vokste Hallvard Vebjørnsson (ca. 1020-1043) opp i en kristen familie. Hans foreldre var velstående storbønder og eide gården Husaby i Lier. Moren het Thorny og var Olav den Helliges frende. Faren Vebjørn var kjøpmann. Hallvard var tidlig ven og uselvisk. Han var Thornys førstefødte og fór ofte med far sin på handelsreiser i Østersjø-området. Blant folk fikk han ry som en gjev og gild og rettferdig kristenmann; de mente han var eslet til stordåd. Det var han vel òg, men ikke just slik de hadde ventet seg.

Da Hallvard var treogtyve vintre gammel, skulle han en vårdag fare over Drammensfjorden. I ferd med å legge fra land, hørte han rop og skrik. En gravid fattigkone kom springende; hakk i hæl halset tre karer. Den arme kvinnen tryglet Hallvard om å ta henne med over fjorden.

Barnkona var visst en trellkvinne. De tre mennene hadde beskyldt henne for innbrudd og tyveri, en forbrytelse som kunne straffes med døden. Hun skulle med makt ha brutt opp låsen på et hus; dette til tross for at hun var svanger og svakelig. Lite hjalp det at hun sa seg uskyldig; for hennes stand var rettsvernet slett, og mennenes harme lot seg ikke stagge.

Hallvard var høybåren, kona trellbunden; slike som ham innlot seg efter skikken ikke med slike som henne. Men Hallvard fyltes av medfølelse og tok henne med i båten; til tross for at han var rik, og på tvers av standsskiller, rakte den fromme ut en hånd. Hun fikk sitte i baugen, mens han grep årene. Som den barmhjertige samaritan (Luk. 10,29-37) viser Hallvard at spørsmålet ikke er hvem som er ens neste, men hvorledes man kan vise seg som en neste for den som trenger en.

De rodde for livet. Forfølgerne fant seg kjapt en egen båt og kastet seg på årene. Ute på fjorden tok de til å skrike at ynglingen måtte gi fra seg kjerringa. Var han gått fra vettet denne rikmannssønnen som våget ofre sitt gode omdømme for en tyvaktig tøs?

Fra ikonostasen i Hl Nikolai ortodokse kirke. Ikonet fremstilles Hl. Hallvard fra Lier sammen med Hl. Sunniva fra Selje.

Hallvard nektet; ei ville han utlevere en barntung søye til ulver. Som kong David kvad: Den som ikke tar imot bestikkelser til skade for én som er uskyldig, skal ikke rokkes evindelig. (Sal. 15,5) Hallvard rokkes ikke; han forsvarer den uskyldige i det opphetede ordskiftet. Olm er øyegnisten fra de tre. Og så - brått spenner én av mennene en bue. Pilen er dødelig og rammer Hallvard i halsen.

Med ett var de tre blitt drapsmenn. Efter å ha slått også den fruktsommelige ihjel, begrov de henne og fosteret i fjæra. Hallvards kropp bandt de til en møllestein og søkkte den ned i fjorden. De fryktet for hevn og måtte for alt i verden skjule sin illgjerning.

Folk fra egnen soknet og lette med vidjekvister, men uten hell. I efterkant oppdaget de imidlertid at kvistene ikke visnet; tvert imot tok de til å blomstre. En tid senere fløt liket og den tunge steinen opp og ble liggende og duppe i vannskorpa i Drammensfjorden. Folk ble forundret over dette merkelige jærtegnet. Således skulle sannheten om Hallvards og den gravide kvinnens bane komme for en dag.

Evangeliet ber oss elske vår neste som oss selv. Hva dere har gjort mot én av Mine minste, det har dere gjort imot Meg, sier Vårherre. (Matt. 25,40) Ved sitt enkle eksempel viste Hl. Hallvard hva disse ord betyr i praksis: Idet han forsvarte en uskyldig kvinnes liv, forsvarte han også Kristus og gav sitt liv for Ham. Av Hallvard kan vi lære at det å være kristen er mere enn bare kirkegang; et kristenliv er et liv hvor man søker å se Kristus i alt, for Han fyller alt i alle (Ef.1,23) og alt er skapt ved Ham og til Ham. (Kol. 1,16) Om denne kristne livsholdning var revolusjonerende i Hallvards vikingtid, er den ikke mindre skjellsettende i vår egen samtid.

Hallvards legeme ble gravlagt på Husaby. Ved graven opplevet folk uvanlige ting, og syke ble helbredet. Østlendingene husket hvilket rettferdig menneske han hadde vært. De forstod at det var tale om en hellig mann og at han var fagnet vel av den allmektige Gud.

Et par tiår efter drapet på Drammensfjorden fikk Adam av Bremen (i Tyskland) vite om Hl. Hallvard av en dansk konge! Det tok altså bemerkelsesverdig kort tid før venerasjonen av helgenen var viden kjent.

Siden har nordmenn bedt om helligmannens forbønner. Helgendagen Hallsok eller Hallvardsvaka feires på dødsdagen 15. mai og ble i tidligere tider helligholdt i hele landet. Gåsungene som vokser på vidjekvistene i mai, minner oss ennå om Hl. Hallvards død. Ikke bare ble Liermannen regnet som skytshelgen for Østlandet, og særlig Oslo; også Bohuslän i Vest-Sverige feiret og feirer ham. I tillegg ble han æret av islendinger, og et Hallvard-billede er funnet på Island. Hl. Hallvard har likevel alltid vært en lokal, skandinavisk helgen. I Borre i Vestfold veller der frem en Hallvardskilde; på dette stedet ble der alt i det ellevte århundre reist en Hallvardskirke. Kirker viet Hallvard fantes i gammel tid flere steder i Norge (og i Sverige.) Hans jordiske levninger ble efterhånden gravet opp fra bakken i Lier og flyttet til Oslo.

Hl. Hallvard fra Lier er fremdeles en ortodoks helgen, og Hallsok står den dag idag oppført i svenske ortodokse kirkekalendere. Han avbildes vanligvis med en kvernstein og somme ganger med pilen som drepte ham.

Snart utviklet imidlertid det fatale bruddet mellom øst og vest seg; Norge og hele Vest-Europa ble avskåret fra den ortodokse kristendommen. Det skulle gå nesten tusen år før ortodoksien atter dukket opp som en åndelig kraft i landet (med unntak av Hl. Trifons misjon og den østsamiske ortodoksi, som vi skal ta for oss i et senere nummer av menighetsbladet.) De norske kristne fulgte pavens romersk-katolske vei, og de norske helgenene ble tatt til inntekt for denne veien. Dermed var der ikke lenger ortodokse tilbake som kunne ære de norske helgenene. Minnet om Hl. Hallvard har dog levet videre blant katolske og protestantiske nordmenn helt opp til vår egen tid - på allehånde vis: I katolsk tid viet man Oslos domkirke og mangfoldige andre kirkebygg til Hallvard; i protestantisk tid har vi fått Oslo byvåpen bestående av et Hallvard-billede og Oslodraktens som er prydet med helgenens billede.

Source

[Alpo]

I hope this may be seen also outside of Finland. Here's a video of Divine Liturgy in Swedish at Uspenski cathedral in Helsinki. Apparently some new Swedish translation was used.

The video should be available for 28 days from now on and IIRC the liturgy will be seen at Swedish and Norwegian television sometimes during next autumn.

[Hrugnir]

I hope this may be seen also outside of Finland. Here's a video of Divine Liturgy in Swedish at Uspenski cathedral in Helsinki. Apparently some new Swedish translation was used.

The video should be available for 28 days from now on and IIRC the liturgy will be seen at Swedish and Norwegian television sometimes during next autumn.

I might add that the liturgy used is the first official Swedish translation ever of the Liturgy, and this Sunday was the first time it was ever used!

[Orthodox11]

Very nice video. The flow of the language sounds very different with the Finnish pronunciation. Where can I find the text of the Swedish translation?