Scandinavian Orthodoxy

[Orthodox11]

Since there seems to be quite a number of Scandinavians on this board, I wanted to make a thread where people could share Orthodox resources (videos, hymns, articles, news, useful websites, etc.) relating to Norway, Sweden and Denmark.

This site publishes a very good magazine. Here is the most recent copy.

[Alpo]

Perhaps we could make a list of Scandinavian Saints. I wonder whether there any more than these four:

- St. Ansgar
- St. Sigfrid
- St. Olaf of Norway
- St. Anna of Novgorod

If one wants to know about pre-Schism Orthodoxy in Scandinavia I would recommend reading  History of the Archbishops of Hamburg-Bremen by Adam of Bremen. It's written in post-Schism period but it contains interesting information about pre-Schism period such as how Orthodoxy arrived to Scandinavia from the West.

[Ansgar]

Well this site contains a series of podcasts of sermons and lectures on orthodoxy (one of them is in english and one in swedish but the rest is in danish). There are also are lot of articles written by our priest and other orthodox clergy and theologians which are pretty good.
http://ortodoks.dk/podcast/

This site is made by a friend of mine and is directed at young people who are interested in orthodoxy.
http://gudstro.wordpress.com/

[Orthodox11]

For Byzantine chant in Norwegian:

http://www.orthodoxmysteries.com/chant-norwegian.html
http://www.youtube.com/user/EkteAsatru

You can also find the Byzantine notation for Vespers in Tones 1 and Plagal 4th, and the Resurrection Apolytikia in all 8 Tones. I've attached them below.

[Orthodox11]

Ortodoks Bønnebok contains basic morning and evening prayers, preparation for Holy Communion, Sunday material from the Ochtoechos, Troparia and Kontakia for feasts, and other helpful material.

Den ortodokse kirkes guddomelige liturgier contains the Liturgies of St. John Chrysostom, St. Basil the Great, and the Presanctified Liturgy of St. Gregory with supplimentary material.

[John of the North]

Perhaps we could make a list of Scandinavian Saints. I wonder whether there any more than these four:

- St. Ansgar
- St. Sigfrid
- St. Olaf of Norway
- St. Anna of Novgorod

St Uni (Unni, Unno, Huno) Sept 17
+ 936. A monk at New Corvey in Germany, in 917 he became Bishop of Bremen-Hamburg. He helped enlighten Sweden and Denmark and reposed in Birka in Sweden.

St Willibrord (Clement) Nov 7
c 658-739. Born in Northumbria, he went to Ireland. From there he went to Friesland in Holland (c 690) accompanied by eleven other monks from England. Six years later he was consecrated bishop with the name of Clement and he founded his Cathedral in Utrecht. His work with the Frisians bore much fruit, as also in Heligoland and Denmark. He founded the monastery of Echternach in Luxembourg in 698 where his relics remain.

St Ulfrid (Wolfred, Wilfrid) Jan 18
+ 1028. Born in England, he became a missionary in Germany and Sweden. He was martyred for destroying an image of Thor.

St Nithard Feb 4
+ 845. A monk at Corbie in Saxony in Germany and a companion of St Ansgar whom he followed to Sweden as a missionary. He was martyred there by pagan Swedes.

St Sigfrid Feb 15
+ c 1045. A priest and monk, probably at Glastonbury in England. He went to enlighten Sweden and was based in Vaxjo. One of his converts was King Olaf of Sweden.

Sts Winaman, Unaman and Sunaman Feb 15
+ c 1040. Monks and nephews of St Sigfrid whom they followed to Sweden. They were martyred by pagans.

St Hallvard (Halward) May 14
+ c 1043. Of the royal family of Norway, he met his death while defending a woman who had appealed to him for help. He is the patron-saint of Oslo.

St Sunniva (Sunnifa) July 8
10th cent. By tradition, Sunniva was a princess who fled from Ireland with her brother and others. They were shipwrecked off the coast of Norway but landed on Selje Island. Here they were slain by people from the mainland and their relics were enshrined in Bergen.

St Olav of Norway (Olaf, Tola) July 29
995-1030. Son of King Harald of Norway. His early youth was spent as a pirate but in 1010 he was baptised in Rouen in France and in 1013 he helped Ethelred of England against the Danes. In 1015 he succeeded to the throne of Norway and at once called missionaries, mainly from England, to enlighten his homeland. He succeeded in part but was driven from his kingdom. In an attempt to recover it, he fell in battle at Stiklestad. In Norway he is regarded as the champion of national independence.

St Olav of Sweden July 30
+ c 950. King of Sweden, martyred by the heathen for refusing to sacrifice to idols at the spot where Stockholm now stands.

St Gorman Aug 28
+ 965. A monk at Reichenau in Germany, he preached the Gospel and became Bishop of Schleswig in Denmark.

[Robert W]

There are also numerous saints that spread Christianity from the east (Saints Sergei and Herman of Valamo being chief examples). These saints are highly venerated in the Finnish Church.

But I guess OP does not count Finland as being part of scandinavia. 

Jag ser nu att detta är postat i Foreign Languages Forum sektionen. Varför pratar vi inte nordiska språk?

[Orthodox11]

But I guess OP does not count Finland as being part of scandinavia. 

Jeg inkluderte ikke Finland siden den ortodokse kirke allerede er godt etablert som en statskirke, og finskspråkelige resurser er lett tilgjengelige. Så dette var mer for oss som ikke er fult så heldige

[Ansgar]

Hvad med den hellige Trifon af Petsjenga som missionerede iblandt Skoltesamerne. Han var den sidste ortodoks helgen der virkede i Norge

[Alpo]

Thank you for these. Here's one more: St. Rimbert, the second Apostle of the North and the successor of St. Ansgar.

Hopefully someone will someday paint an icon of All Saints of Scandinavia.

[Robert W]

Hvad med den hellige Trifon af Petsjenga som missionerede iblandt Skoltesamerne. Han var den sidste ortodoks helgen der virkede i Norge

Verkligen intressant att helige Trifon av Petsamo också verkade i Norge. Bor det ännu skoltsamer i Norge?

Helige Trifon av Petsamo firas, tillsammans med Helgonen Sergius och Herman, som Finlands upplysare. Tydligen är han också Norges (i varje fall nordnorges)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryphon_of_Pechenga

Tackar Ansgar, varje dag lär man sig något nytt.

[Ansgar]

Hvad med den hellige Trifon af Petsjenga som missionerede iblandt Skoltesamerne. Han var den sidste ortodoks helgen der virkede i Norge

Verkligen intressant att helige Trifon av Petsamo också verkade i Norge. Bor det ännu skoltsamer i Norge?

Helige Trifon av Petsamo firas, tillsammans med Helgonen Sergius och Herman, som Finlands upplysare. Tydligen är han också Norges (i varje fall nordnorges)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryphon_of_Pechenga

Tackar Ansgar, varje dag lär man sig något nytt.

Ja, der lever stadig skoltesamere i Norge men jeg tror ikke at det er mange.

De har et lille kapel i Neiden



Den hellige George kapel

[Robert W]

Jag börjar bli lite imponerad av Helige Trifons livsverk.

Vet du vilken biskop Skoltsamerna, som bor i Norge, vänder sig till för att få präster?

[Ansgar]

Jag börjar bli lite imponerad av Helige Trifons livsverk.

Vet du vilken biskop Skoltsamerna, som bor i Norge, vänder sig till för att få präster?

Hvis jeg ikke tager fejl så tilhører de samme eksarkat som vi, hvilket må betyde at de hører under Ærkebiskop Gabriel af Comane.

[Volnutt]

For Byzantine chant in Norwegian:

http://www.orthodoxmysteries.com/chant-norwegian.html
http://www.youtube.com/user/EkteAsatru

You can also find the Byzantine notation for Vespers in Tones 1 and Plagal 4th, and the Resurrection Apolytikia in all 8 Tones. I've attached them below.

Does Asatru mean something different in Norway? In the US, it means neopagans who worship the Norse gods.

[celticfan1888]

Ortodokse Kristne Bønner På Norsk: Trosbekjennelsen

[Robert W]

Does Asatru mean something different in Norway? In the US, it means neopagans who worship the Norse gods.

Yeah, the username for the youtube account does not really match the uploaded content. 
But it is as you say that asatro is neopaganism, also in the nordic countries.

[Volnutt]

Yeah, it doesn't match lol.

[Orthodox11]

Does Asatru mean something different in Norway? In the US, it means neopagans who worship the Norse gods.

Literally, "Ekte Asatru" means "Genuine God-belief". If you look up any video on youtube of Norwegian folk music, metal, or anything to do with the Vikings, you have a million comments from morons the world over saying "HAIL ODIN!" etc. I think the name was a tongue-in-cheek way of getting the attention of those people.

[Volnutt]

Ah. Ok, makes sense. Thanks.

[Orthodox11]

Ortodokse Kristne Bønner På Norsk: Trosbekjennelsen

Ortodokse Kristne Bønner På Norsk: Det Lille Kompletoriet

[Alpo]

Johannes Chrysostomos liturgi på svenska

[Robert W]

Johannes Chrysostomos liturgi på svenska

Material på svenska från ortodoksi.net? Fantastiskt! Vem ska man skicka tackkort och blombuketter åt? 

[Ansgar]

Det her er første del af en dansk amatørdokumentar om ørkenfædrene. To danskere rejser til Egypten for at møde de koptiske munke. Filmen er ikke af den bedste kvalitet men den er rigtig god og indeholder blandt andet en samtale med en eremit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5QhmyVVIrg

 

[Volnutt]

Funny that Danish should have a native for "desert."

[Ansgar]

All those who understand norwegian just have to watch this. It is a small documentary about father Christofóros Schuff who live in Soothern Norway.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SchuffNorway#p/a/u/2/FuUtNgQ8p1g

[Fotina02]

All those who understand norwegian just have to watch this. It is a small documentary about father Christofóros Schuff who live in Soothern Norway.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SchuffNorway#p/a/u/2/FuUtNgQ8p1g

I watched this but don't speak norwegian. The wife was only in a few photos. Is he widowed? I liked his home chapel.

[Ansgar]

All those who understand norwegian just have to watch this. It is a small documentary about father Christofóros Schuff who live in Soothern Norway.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SchuffNorway#p/a/u/2/FuUtNgQ8p1g

I watched this but don't speak norwegian. The wife was only in a few photos. Is he widowed? I liked his home chapel.

I also wondered about that. You can see his wife on some of his other videos, so I suppose she is still around 

[Alpo]

All those who understand norwegian just have to watch this. It is a small documentary about father Christofóros Schuff who live in Soothern Norway.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SchuffNorway#p/a/u/2/FuUtNgQ8p1g

I watched this but don't speak norwegian. The wife was only in a few photos. Is he widowed? I liked his home chapel.

I also wondered about that. You can see his wife on some of his other videos, so I suppose she is still around 

Maybe she wanted to avoid publicity since that document seem to have been broadcasted in Norwegian television.

[Ansgar]

Maybe.

[Alpo]

Några andra liturgiska texter på svenska: 1, 2.

[Orthodox11]

I watched this but don't speak norwegian. The wife was only in a few photos. Is he widowed? I liked his home chapel.

His wife is still alive and kicking. He says in the documentary "my wife is away in China at the moment, so I'm alone this week". He's an American convert to Orthodoxy who married a Norwegian and set up a little mission in southern Norway. He belongs to the Russian Exarchate under Constantinople, but received his theological training at the University of Thessaloniki and makes use of many Greek practices with the blessing of Archbishop Gabriel. He is, for example, working on setting Norwegian liturgical texts to the Byzantine melodies, although I have not yet heard any recordings/seen any sheet music to know what it's like.

[Ansgar]

I watched this but don't speak norwegian. The wife was only in a few photos. Is he widowed? I liked his home chapel.

His wife is still alive and kicking. He says in the documentary "my wife is away in China at the moment, so I'm alone this week". He's an American convert to Orthodoxy who married a Norwegian and set up a little mission in southern Norway. He belongs to the Russian Exarchate under Constantinople, but received his theological training at the University of Thessaloniki and makes use of many Greek practices with the blessing of Archbishop Gabriel. He is, for example, working on setting Norwegian liturgical texts to the Byzantine melodies, although I have not yet heard any recordings/seen any sheet music to know what it's like.

I think that in one of his videos he is singing psalm 141 in norwegian but I can't say for sure if it is byzantine.

[Orthodox11]

I found a 1983 edition of the Sobornost journal in Norwegian. The whole journal was too large to upload, so I've just attached an article by John Meyendorff on Tradition.

[Orthodox11]

Byzantine chant in Norwegian: Psalm 22  - The Lord is my Shepherd (Salme 22 - Herren er min Hyrde) with Byzantine notation.

[Ansgar]

Leena-Maija Trapp fortæller om sin ortodokse tro i det svenske program Från Sverige till himlen.

 http://svtplay.se/t/152223/fran_sverige_till_himlen

[Jason.Wike]

All those who understand norwegian just have to watch this. It is a small documentary about father Christofóros Schuff who live in Soothern Norway.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SchuffNorway#p/a/u/2/FuUtNgQ8p1g

That's funny, why at the beginning is the title in English "The Priest at Greipstad" and then the rest of it is entirely in Norwegian? Is that common?

[Ansgar]

Maybe, it is because he is american.

[Alpo]

Leena-Maija Trapp fortæller om sin ortodokse tro i det svenske program Från Sverige till himlen.

 http://svtplay.se/t/152223/fran_sverige_till_himlen

Thank you for this. She seems to be originally a Finn so it's nice to think that my people can be a help in bringing Orthodoxy to other Scandinavians.

Also, Swedish is a beautiful language and rikssvenska is even more beautiful than finlandssvenska and I haven't heard neither of them for a long time since my compulsory Swedish courses are long gone and there are hardly any Sweadish-speaking Finns in my part of Finland. Maybe I should make an effort to read something in Swedish again.

[Ansgar]

Leena-Maija Trapp fortæller om sin ortodokse tro i det svenske program Från Sverige till himlen.

 http://svtplay.se/t/152223/fran_sverige_till_himlen

Thank you for this. She seems to be originally a Finn so it's nice to think that my people can be a help in bringing Orthodoxy to other Scandinavians.

Also, Swedish is a beautiful language and rikssvenska is even more beautiful than finlandssvenska and I haven't heard neither of them for a long time since my compulsory Swedish courses are long gone and there are hardly any Sweadish-speaking Finns in my part of Finland. Maybe I should make an effort to read something in Swedish again.

I actually thought about you when I posted it. I just have to be sure, the chuldren who were transported to Sweden, was that WW2?

[Alpo]

I just have to be sure, the chuldren who were transported to Sweden, was that WW2?

Yes. If you want to know more about them just search "krigsbarn" from some search engine. There seems to be plenty of information available.

[Ansgar]

I just have to be sure, the chuldren who were transported to Sweden, was that WW2?

Yes. If you want to know more about them just search "krigsbarn" from some search engine. There seems to be plenty of information available.

Thank you. I was just wondering beacuse she looked so young so I thought maybe Finland had been involved in some weird war, I didn't know about 

[Alpo]

I just have to be sure, the chuldren who were transported to Sweden, was that WW2?

Yes. If you want to know more about them just search "krigsbarn" from some search engine. There seems to be plenty of information available.

Thank you. I was just wondering beacuse she looked so young so I thought maybe Finland had been involved in some weird war, I didn't know about 

In a way our wars were separate from WWII since we fought for our independence whereas others fought against Nazis or for Lebensraum. I believe that even if there wasn't WWII there would have been war in Finland anyway. Conflict with USSR was inevitable.

[Ansgar]

I just have to be sure, the chuldren who were transported to Sweden, was that WW2?

Yes. If you want to know more about them just search "krigsbarn" from some search engine. There seems to be plenty of information available.

Thank you. I was just wondering beacuse she looked so young so I thought maybe Finland had been involved in some weird war, I didn't know about 

In a way our wars were separate from WWII since we fought for our independence whereas others fought against Nazis or for Lebensraum. I believe that even if there wasn't WWII there would have been war in Finland anyway. Conflict with USSR was inevitable.

Sadly, I think you're right.

[mabsoota]

hi friends!
do u have any resources in finnish or about orthodoxy in finland?
i have a finnish friend who is orthodox, but he doesn't live in finland at the moment.
thanks
 

[Ansgar]

hi friends!
do u have any resources in finnish or about orthodoxy in finland?
i have a finnish friend who is orthodox, but he doesn't live in finland at the moment.
thanks
 

Oriental or eastern orthodox?

[Alpo]

hi friends!
do u have any resources in finnish or about orthodoxy in finland?
i have a finnish friend who is orthodox, but he doesn't live in finland at the moment.
thanks
 

Did he/she have something specific in mind?

[mabsoota]

oriental, but eastern resources also useful.
nothing specific, thanks 

[Alpo]

oriental, but eastern resources also useful.
nothing specific, thanks  

A Finnish Oriental Orthodox Christian I didn't that such people exist.

I know hardly anything about Oriental Orthodoxy in Finland. I know that there has been Ethiopian OO services in Helsinki's EO parish's chapel and there is some Ethiopian community or parish in Helsinki but I don't think they have any actual church building and their priest lives in Denmark so I don't think they have much services or anything. I don't live in Helsinki but I've heard that many OO christians attend local EO services there. As for the other cities and communes, I haven't heard any other OO communities. I guess there are some OO immigrants at least in larger cities but that's about it.

As of EO church of Finland, here is the the official website. Two other fairly good sites are Ortodoksi.net which is sort of overall databank about all Orthodox-related things and Tsasouna.net in which a Finnish priest has published numerous articles about teaching of the Fathers and the Church. Here is the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in Finnish and in English and in case your friend a Swedish-speaking Finn here is the liturgy in Swedish. If your friend understands Finnish he/she might find these interesting.

[Ansgar]

I have finally been able to find a site where you can watch pictures of the coptic church in Denmark. 

Just scroll down one the page
 http://www.dr.dk/P1/Stedsans/Udsendelser/2009/03/17180238.htm

[mabsoota]

thanks, friends
God bless u and may you have a beautiful Christmas fast and feast
 

[celticfan1888]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

[Ansgar]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Really? Do you know the name?

[Alpo]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian!

Why? There is a Norwegian priest or there are many Norwegian immigrants in that area?

[Volnutt]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian!

Why? There is a Norwegian priest or there are many Norwegian immigrants in that area?

Lot of Scandinavian ancestry and strong cultural ties in Minnesota, might be some kind of bilingual community.

[ialmisry]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian!

Why? There is a Norwegian priest or there are many Norwegian immigrants in that area?

When I was in Finland, I met a Finn who had visited his aunt for the summer/half a year in the Upper Peninsula

He had hoped to practice his English.  She, however, lived in a town where everyone spoke Finnish, and so he used his English for only 1-2 weeks, when they went to Detroit.

I had a friend in grammar school whose family sent the children back to Minnesota every year to keep up their Finnish, and to have them confirmed at the Finnish church when that came about.

On the Norwegians:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Minnesotan#Norwegian_communities_in_Minnesota
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language#Norwegian_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language#Norwegian_language_by_state

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Norwegian1346.gif
Enig og tro til Dovre faller


I recall a while back that a few Lutheran pastors and their families embraced Orthodoxy (as the Lutherans embraced apostacy more and more). Maybe it's part of that trend.

[ialmisry]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Winter.

[Alpo]

She, however, lived in a town where everyone spoke Finnish, and so he used his English for only 1-2 weeks, when they went to Detroit.

LOL. I've heard that there are quite many Finnish-speaking Americans in some areas but that is little more than I expected.

If I moved to US I wouldn't like to live in that kind of area. What's the point of moving to foreign country and living in a Finnish ghetto?

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Winter.

Winter is actually rather good reason to move to somewhere.

[celticfan1888]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Winter.

There is no such thing as winter in Louisiana. 

[celticfan1888]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Really? Do you know the name?

I'm almost 100% it was St. Olav Orthodox Church (Who would've guessed right? lol)

[celticfan1888]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian!

Why? There is a Norwegian priest or there are many Norwegian immigrants in that area?

MANY Norwegian immigrants

[Ansgar]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Really? Do you know the name?

I'm almost 100% it was St. Olav Orthodox Church (Who would've guessed right? lol)

Is it this one?
http://netministries.org/churches.aspx/?ch=ch04576&frame=N

[Volnutt]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Really? Do you know the name?

I'm almost 100% it was St. Olav Orthodox Church (Who would've guessed right? lol)

Is it this one?
http://netministries.org/churches.aspx/?ch=ch04576&frame=N

Those guys seem schismatic.

[Ansgar]

There's an Orthodox Church in Minnesota (ROCOR, I believe) that has liturgy in Norwegian! Why did we move to Louisiana and not there...? 

Really? Do you know the name?

I'm almost 100% it was St. Olav Orthodox Church (Who would've guessed right? lol)

Is it this one?
http://netministries.org/churches.aspx/?ch=ch04576&frame=N

Those guys seem schismatic.

They are. I think they call their church the 'English nordic orthodox church' or something like that.

[Orthodox11]

I think they call their church the 'English nordic orthodox church' or something like that.

A western rite church that isn't in Communion with any of the Orthodox... In other words, it's a conservative Anglican church.

[Orthodox11]

The short melodies for Lord, I have cried (Psalm 140) in all the 8 tones (Norwegian Bokmål with Byzantine notation).

De korte melodiene til Herre, jeg roper (Salme 140) i alle de 8 tonene.

[Gorazd]

Last week, I visited this monastery in Sweden:
http://www.crkva.se/kloster.htm
They use Swedish as their liturgical language.

I highly recommend it to everyone in Scandinavia, who wants to get an authentic impression of Orthodoxy.

[Ansgar]

Perfect. Now we are the only one in Scandinavia who desn't have a monastery 

[Gorazd]

Perfect. Now we are the only one in Scandinavia who desn't have a monastery 

Don't think so negatively. Visit the monastery instead, it's not so far from you.

And if you want a monastery in Denmark, why don't you found one? You could use the existing Norwegian Bokmål texts, and change a bit of spelling and pronounciation, then it's already Danish.

[Ansgar]

Don't think so negatively. Visit the monastery instead, it's not so far from you.

Of course  but i'm a dane, so I have to complain about Norway and Sweden having things we don't have.

And if you want a monastery in Denmark, why don't you found one? You could use the existing Norwegian Bokmål texts, and change a bit of spelling and pronounciation, then it's already Danish.

I could, but it would be pretty difficult. I mean, I would have to raise money, write to a bishop, find monks/nuns etc.

Could be nice though 

[Ansgar]

That monastery really have a beutiful church 

[Ansgar]

Happy Pascha to all the finns

Kristus nousi kuolleista! Totisesti nousi!

[Orthodox11]

Kristus er oppstanden fra de døde, med døden nedtrampet Han døden, og til dem i gravene gav Han liv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWkSc--DRkc&feature=related

God Påske!

[Alpo]

Kristus er oppstanden fra de døde, med døden nedtrampet Han døden, og til dem i gravene gav Han liv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWkSc--DRkc&feature=related

God Påske!

Sannerligen Han är uppstånden!

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

[Ansgar]

Kristus er Opstanden! 

[ialmisry]

Kristus er oppstanden!

Kristus er oppstanden fra de døde, med døden nedtrampet Han døden, og til dem i gravene gav Han liv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWkSc--DRkc&feature=related

God Påske!

Sannerligen Han är uppstånden!

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

That's because they were Orthodox.  St. Olaf spent plenty of time among the Rus'.  One of the earliest Churches to him was in Novgorod, and the earliest image of him is from Bethlehem.

[Alpo]

Kristus er oppstanden!

Kristus er oppstanden fra de døde, med døden nedtrampet Han døden, og til dem i gravene gav Han liv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWkSc--DRkc&feature=related

God Påske!

Sannerligen Han är uppstånden!

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

That's because they were Orthodox.  St. Olaf spent plenty of time among the Rus'.  One of the earliest Churches to him was in Novgorod, and the earliest image of him is from Bethlehem.

However I was speaking in a little different sense. Theologically and theoretically speaking there's loads of Orthodox architecture in the West but most of that doesn't necessarily look Orthodox on the level of gut feeling since WRO is just a hypothesis for most of us living in the old continent. For some reason these Norwegian Stave Churches besides being theoretically Orthodox also look Orthodox. A Byzantine service in a Gothic church would probably look a little out of place but I could imagine one being celebrated in a Stave church.

[Orthodox11]

the earliest image of him is from Bethlehem.

I didn't know this. Do you have a picture?

[Orthodox11]

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

They're incredibly beautiful, such a shame so few remain standing. A couple of them still have some of the original iconography in tact. If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to build one complete with iconostasis. Alas, I doubt that will ever happen, especially since I never play the lottery.


Wall painting from Gol stavkirke.

[Ansgar]

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

They're incredibly beautiful, such a shame so few remain standing. A couple of them still have some of the original iconography in tact. If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to build one complete with iconostasis. Alas, I doubt that will ever happen, especially since I never play the lottery.


Wall painting from Gol stavkirke.

I saw this church when I was on vacation in Norway last year. Only on the outside, sadly.

[Alpo]

Awesome. For some reason I though their walls were bare white. Probably associated them with more recent wooden Finnish Lutheran churches which was fairly foolish now that I think of it. I hope that some day EOs revive the use of that kind of native iconography.

[ialmisry]

Gotta love the Stavkirke at the beginning. I'm a little jealous of those for you Norwegians. Besides being beautiful they also look Orthodox.

They're incredibly beautiful, such a shame so few remain standing. A couple of them still have some of the original iconography in tact. If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to build one complete with iconostasis. Alas, I doubt that will ever happen, especially since I never play the lottery.


Wall painting from Gol stavkirke.

This is an interesting representation of St. Olaf's life on a stavkirke's door

[ialmisry]

the earliest image of him is from Bethlehem.

I didn't know this. Do you have a picture?

http://arneberge.wordpress.com/2009/07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trondheim_byarkiv/4103558871/

[Orthodox11]

http://arneberge.wordpress.com/2009/07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trondheim_byarkiv/4103558871/

Awesome. Thanks. I'm very annoyed that I didn't know to look out for this when I visited some years ago.

[Alpo]

I'm very annoyed that I didn't know to look out for this when I visited some years ago.

+ 1

St. Olaf might be a Norwegian but he used to be hugely popular in Finland too. Even to the point that Swedish authorities became worried because he was more popular than the Swedish Saints.

[ialmisry]

Christ er opstanden!

http://arneberge.wordpress.com/2009/07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/trondheim_byarkiv/4103558871/

Awesome. Thanks. I'm very annoyed that I didn't know to look out for this when I visited some years ago.

Ditto. But then I was Lutheran when I was there, so there was a lot I missed.  Fortunately, I made it to Jerusalem and the environs (Bethlehem wasn't within range, things were that bad) again, to do that right.

Btw, the photo is before WWI.  It is not as clear today.  The second link shows what it looks like now.

[Orthodox11]

Happy Halsok!

Under Olav den Helliges regjeringstid vokste Hallvard Vebjørnsson (ca. 1020-1043) opp i en kristen familie. Hans foreldre var velstående storbønder og eide gården Husaby i Lier. Moren het Thorny og var Olav den Helliges frende. Faren Vebjørn var kjøpmann. Hallvard var tidlig ven og uselvisk. Han var Thornys førstefødte og fór ofte med far sin på handelsreiser i Østersjø-området. Blant folk fikk han ry som en gjev og gild og rettferdig kristenmann; de mente han var eslet til stordåd. Det var han vel òg, men ikke just slik de hadde ventet seg.

Da Hallvard var treogtyve vintre gammel, skulle han en vårdag fare over Drammensfjorden. I ferd med å legge fra land, hørte han rop og skrik. En gravid fattigkone kom springende; hakk i hæl halset tre karer. Den arme kvinnen tryglet Hallvard om å ta henne med over fjorden.

Barnkona var visst en trellkvinne. De tre mennene hadde beskyldt henne for innbrudd og tyveri, en forbrytelse som kunne straffes med døden. Hun skulle med makt ha brutt opp låsen på et hus; dette til tross for at hun var svanger og svakelig. Lite hjalp det at hun sa seg uskyldig; for hennes stand var rettsvernet slett, og mennenes harme lot seg ikke stagge.

Hallvard var høybåren, kona trellbunden; slike som ham innlot seg efter skikken ikke med slike som henne. Men Hallvard fyltes av medfølelse og tok henne med i båten; til tross for at han var rik, og på tvers av standsskiller, rakte den fromme ut en hånd. Hun fikk sitte i baugen, mens han grep årene. Som den barmhjertige samaritan (Luk. 10,29-37) viser Hallvard at spørsmålet ikke er hvem som er ens neste, men hvorledes man kan vise seg som en neste for den som trenger en.

De rodde for livet. Forfølgerne fant seg kjapt en egen båt og kastet seg på årene. Ute på fjorden tok de til å skrike at ynglingen måtte gi fra seg kjerringa. Var han gått fra vettet denne rikmannssønnen som våget ofre sitt gode omdømme for en tyvaktig tøs?

Fra ikonostasen i Hl Nikolai ortodokse kirke. Ikonet fremstilles Hl. Hallvard fra Lier sammen med Hl. Sunniva fra Selje.

Hallvard nektet; ei ville han utlevere en barntung søye til ulver. Som kong David kvad: Den som ikke tar imot bestikkelser til skade for én som er uskyldig, skal ikke rokkes evindelig. (Sal. 15,5) Hallvard rokkes ikke; han forsvarer den uskyldige i det opphetede ordskiftet. Olm er øyegnisten fra de tre. Og så - brått spenner én av mennene en bue. Pilen er dødelig og rammer Hallvard i halsen.

Med ett var de tre blitt drapsmenn. Efter å ha slått også den fruktsommelige ihjel, begrov de henne og fosteret i fjæra. Hallvards kropp bandt de til en møllestein og søkkte den ned i fjorden. De fryktet for hevn og måtte for alt i verden skjule sin illgjerning.

Folk fra egnen soknet og lette med vidjekvister, men uten hell. I efterkant oppdaget de imidlertid at kvistene ikke visnet; tvert imot tok de til å blomstre. En tid senere fløt liket og den tunge steinen opp og ble liggende og duppe i vannskorpa i Drammensfjorden. Folk ble forundret over dette merkelige jærtegnet. Således skulle sannheten om Hallvards og den gravide kvinnens bane komme for en dag.

Evangeliet ber oss elske vår neste som oss selv. Hva dere har gjort mot én av Mine minste, det har dere gjort imot Meg, sier Vårherre. (Matt. 25,40) Ved sitt enkle eksempel viste Hl. Hallvard hva disse ord betyr i praksis: Idet han forsvarte en uskyldig kvinnes liv, forsvarte han også Kristus og gav sitt liv for Ham. Av Hallvard kan vi lære at det å være kristen er mere enn bare kirkegang; et kristenliv er et liv hvor man søker å se Kristus i alt, for Han fyller alt i alle (Ef.1,23) og alt er skapt ved Ham og til Ham. (Kol. 1,16) Om denne kristne livsholdning var revolusjonerende i Hallvards vikingtid, er den ikke mindre skjellsettende i vår egen samtid.

Hallvards legeme ble gravlagt på Husaby. Ved graven opplevet folk uvanlige ting, og syke ble helbredet. Østlendingene husket hvilket rettferdig menneske han hadde vært. De forstod at det var tale om en hellig mann og at han var fagnet vel av den allmektige Gud.

Et par tiår efter drapet på Drammensfjorden fikk Adam av Bremen (i Tyskland) vite om Hl. Hallvard av en dansk konge! Det tok altså bemerkelsesverdig kort tid før venerasjonen av helgenen var viden kjent.

Siden har nordmenn bedt om helligmannens forbønner. Helgendagen Hallsok eller Hallvardsvaka feires på dødsdagen 15. mai og ble i tidligere tider helligholdt i hele landet. Gåsungene som vokser på vidjekvistene i mai, minner oss ennå om Hl. Hallvards død. Ikke bare ble Liermannen regnet som skytshelgen for Østlandet, og særlig Oslo; også Bohuslän i Vest-Sverige feiret og feirer ham. I tillegg ble han æret av islendinger, og et Hallvard-billede er funnet på Island. Hl. Hallvard har likevel alltid vært en lokal, skandinavisk helgen. I Borre i Vestfold veller der frem en Hallvardskilde; på dette stedet ble der alt i det ellevte århundre reist en Hallvardskirke. Kirker viet Hallvard fantes i gammel tid flere steder i Norge (og i Sverige.) Hans jordiske levninger ble efterhånden gravet opp fra bakken i Lier og flyttet til Oslo.

Hl. Hallvard fra Lier er fremdeles en ortodoks helgen, og Hallsok står den dag idag oppført i svenske ortodokse kirkekalendere. Han avbildes vanligvis med en kvernstein og somme ganger med pilen som drepte ham.

Snart utviklet imidlertid det fatale bruddet mellom øst og vest seg; Norge og hele Vest-Europa ble avskåret fra den ortodokse kristendommen. Det skulle gå nesten tusen år før ortodoksien atter dukket opp som en åndelig kraft i landet (med unntak av Hl. Trifons misjon og den østsamiske ortodoksi, som vi skal ta for oss i et senere nummer av menighetsbladet.) De norske kristne fulgte pavens romersk-katolske vei, og de norske helgenene ble tatt til inntekt for denne veien. Dermed var der ikke lenger ortodokse tilbake som kunne ære de norske helgenene. Minnet om Hl. Hallvard har dog levet videre blant katolske og protestantiske nordmenn helt opp til vår egen tid - på allehånde vis: I katolsk tid viet man Oslos domkirke og mangfoldige andre kirkebygg til Hallvard; i protestantisk tid har vi fått Oslo byvåpen bestående av et Hallvard-billede og Oslodraktens som er prydet med helgenens billede.

Source

[Alpo]

I hope this may be seen also outside of Finland. Here's a video of Divine Liturgy in Swedish at Uspenski cathedral in Helsinki. Apparently some new Swedish translation was used.

The video should be available for 28 days from now on and IIRC the liturgy will be seen at Swedish and Norwegian television sometimes during next autumn.

[Hrugnir]

I hope this may be seen also outside of Finland. Here's a video of Divine Liturgy in Swedish at Uspenski cathedral in Helsinki. Apparently some new Swedish translation was used.

The video should be available for 28 days from now on and IIRC the liturgy will be seen at Swedish and Norwegian television sometimes during next autumn.

I might add that the liturgy used is the first official Swedish translation ever of the Liturgy, and this Sunday was the first time it was ever used!

[Orthodox11]

Very nice video. The flow of the language sounds very different with the Finnish pronunciation. Where can I find the text of the Swedish translation?

[Jason.Wike]

I hope this may be seen also outside of Finland. Here's a video of Divine Liturgy in Swedish at Uspenski cathedral in Helsinki. Apparently some new Swedish translation was used.

The video should be available for 28 days from now on and IIRC the liturgy will be seen at Swedish and Norwegian television sometimes during next autumn.

Nice. How did Swedish get to be so different from Norwegian and Danish though?

[Orthodox11]

Nice. How did Swedish get to be so different from Norwegian and Danish though?

It isn't. Or did you mean pronunciation? They all have Finnish accents. Finnish, of course, is a very different sounding language to Norwegian and Danish.

[Alpo]

They all have Finnish accents. Finnish, of course, is a very different sounding language to Norwegian and Danish.

While it could be that many people in the video are Finnish-speaking Finns who just fail to pronounce Swedish properly there probably are also some Swedish-speaking Finns. Their language is more of an actual dialect than mere accent.

[Gorazd]

Any way to download this video?

[Ansgar]

They all have Finnish accents. Finnish, of course, is a very different sounding language to Norwegian and Danish.

While it could be that many people in the video are Finnish-speaking Finns who just fail to pronounce Swedish properly there probably are also some Swedish-speaking Finns. Their language is more of an actual dialect than mere accent.

Tell me about it. I can hardly read it. I have a book on orthodox theology written by clergymen in the north and I have a hard understanding the finland-swedish text.

[Alpo]

They all have Finnish accents. Finnish, of course, is a very different sounding language to Norwegian and Danish.

While it could be that many people in the video are Finnish-speaking Finns who just fail to pronounce Swedish properly there probably are also some Swedish-speaking Finns. Their language is more of an actual dialect than mere accent.

Tell me about it. I can hardly read it. I have a book on orthodox theology written by clergymen in the north and I have a hard understanding the finland-swedish text.

LOL. What book is that?

Sorry Ansgar, but you reminded of this and I just have to place it here. Andre Wickström is a Finnish Swedish-speaking stand-up comedian who apparently had some serious trouble understanding Danish language. A sort of English version can be found here. I hope you don't find those offending since he makes fun of Finns too.

Any way to download this video?

There are loads of programs which can be used for downloading streaming videos from internet but I'm not exactly sure how legal that is. Finnish national public-broadcasting company itself doesn't offer any means for downloading videos from that site. Or anywhere else for that matter.

[Alveus Lacuna]

On another thread, or perhaps in this one, somebody posted some Ukrainian Orthodox churches that look very similar to the stave churches. Can anybody clue me in on these and maybe their history?

[Ansgar]

LOL. What book is that?

Ortodokse Røster i Nord. It's very good.  
http://www.ambon.se/ambon.se/bokhandel/ortodokse-roster-i-nord-i

Sorry Ansgar, but you reminded of this and I just have to place it here. Andre Wickström is a Finnish Swedish-speaking stand-up comedian who apparently had some serious trouble understanding Danish language.

Is that how we sound to you guys

[Orthodox11]

Is that how we sound to you guys

Hahaha, I thought his Danish was spot on! Funny guy!

[Ansgar]

Is that how we sound to you guys

Hahaha, I thought his Danish was spot on! Funny guy!

It actually sounded quite danish

[Jason.Wike]

On another thread, or perhaps in this one, somebody posted some Ukrainian Orthodox churches that look very similar to the stave churches. Can anybody clue me in on these and maybe their history?

Like this? There's similar ones in Slovakia, Poland, and around the area. Even Protestants built some churches like that.

[celticfan1888]

Is that how we sound to you guys

Ja! Ja! lol

[Orthodox11]

On another thread, or perhaps in this one, somebody posted some Ukrainian Orthodox churches that look very similar to the stave churches. Can anybody clue me in on these and maybe their history?

The Rus were of Scandinavian descent, there's plenty of cultural overlap.

[celticfan1888]

On another thread, or perhaps in this one, somebody posted some Ukrainian Orthodox churches that look very similar to the stave churches. Can anybody clue me in on these and maybe their history?

History of the Rus' (who were Vikings that came from mostly modern-day Sweden). Explains why some of these things are similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_people

[Alpo]

On another thread, or perhaps in this one, somebody posted some Ukrainian Orthodox churches that look very similar to the stave churches. Can anybody clue me in on these and maybe their history?

History of the Rus' (who were Vikings that came from mostly modern-day Sweden). Explains why some of these things are similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_people

There was a rather cool map over there. Beware, O Russia and Sweden! Some day we take our belonings back!

[ialmisry]

On another thread, or perhaps in this one, somebody posted some Ukrainian Orthodox churches that look very similar to the stave churches. Can anybody clue me in on these and maybe their history?

History of the Rus' (who were Vikings that came from mostly modern-day Sweden). Explains why some of these things are similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rus%27_people

There was a rather cool map over there. Beware, O Russia and Sweden! Some day we take our belonings back!

Rurik was a Swedized Finn, with Slavicized progeny.  The Finns kept it but lost their language.

[Alpo]

Rurik was a Swedized Finn, with Slavicized progeny.  The Finns kept it but lost their language.

You lost me. What we kept and what we lost?

[Jason.Wike]

Rurik was a Swedized Finn, with Slavicized progeny.  The Finns kept it but lost their language.

You lost me. What we kept and what we lost?

Finno-Ugrics in Russia kept their territory but they became Russians.

[Alpo]

Rurik was a Swedized Finn, with Slavicized progeny.  The Finns kept it but lost their language.

You lost me. What we kept and what we lost?

Finno-Ugrics in Russia kept their territory but they became Russians.

Thanks, Jason.Wike.

Now that I think of it this explains why Ingegerd Olofsdotter of Sweden became St. Anna of Novgorod.

[Alpo]

I'd like to ask all of our Scandinavians in here whether you miss Western liturgy? AFAIK all Scandinavian state churches have fairly traditional Western liturgy as their standard sunday service so it's sort of part of our cultures.

[Ansgar]

I'd like to ask all of our Scandinavians in here whether you miss Western liturgy? AFAIK all Scandinavian state churches have fairly traditional Western liturgy as their standard sunday service so it's sort of part of our cultures.

Well, it's hard to say. When I attend a lutheran church, I sometimes do miss it and think about how great it would be if the churches could be filled again, but I still think that something is missing from the danish liturgy. The swedish and norwegian liturgies for example have kept much more of their catholic inheritance. I once attended a norwegian wedding and I was surprised to see that the priest were wearing a chasuble. I have only seen one danish priest wearing a chasuble in all my life. So while the danish liturgy is nice, I wouldn't give away the divine liturgy for anything.

[ialmisry]

I'd like to ask all of our Scandinavians in here whether you miss Western liturgy? AFAIK all Scandinavian state churches have fairly traditional Western liturgy as their standard sunday service so it's sort of part of our cultures.

Well, it's hard to say. When I attend a lutheran church, I sometimes do miss it and think about how great it would be if the churches could be filled again, but I still think that something is missing from the danish liturgy. The swedish and norwegian liturgies for example have kept much more of their catholic inheritance. I once attended a norwegian wedding and I was surprised to see that the priest were wearing a chasuble. I have only seen one danish priest wearing a chasuble in all my life. So while the danish liturgy is nice, I wouldn't give away the divine liturgy for anything.

I wonder how the liturgy of the Nordic Catholic Church compares.

[Gorazd]

I'd like to ask all of our Scandinavians in here whether you miss Western liturgy? AFAIK all Scandinavian state churches have fairly traditional Western liturgy as their standard sunday service so it's sort of part of our cultures.

I'm not a Scandinavian, but I went to see a Lutheran mass in a small Swedish town about 3 months ago, and it was really beautiful. And, in fact, extremely similar to what I have seen in the ECUSA.

[Orthodox11]

Well, it's hard to say. When I attend a lutheran church, I sometimes do miss it and think about how great it would be if the churches could be filled again, but I still think that something is missing from the danish liturgy. The swedish and norwegian liturgies for example have kept much more of their catholic inheritance. I once attended a norwegian wedding and I was surprised to see that the priest were wearing a chasuble. I have only seen one danish priest wearing a chasuble in all my life. So while the danish liturgy is nice, I wouldn't give away the divine liturgy for anything.

I attended a Church of Norway service last Sunday. It opens with the "Kyrie eleison, Gud Fader, forbarme Deg", etc. sung in very traditional plainchant. As a child, the plainchant stuff was the only part of the service I ever liked. I found it very moving, despite the organ, and I suddenly got very nostalgic. The next hour was a collection of hymns (all of which sound like children's songs), solo performances, and various readings (all of which contained failed attempts at humour). I went from almost being moved to tears in the first couple of minutes, to spending the next 58minutes dying to leave. I couldn't get over just how empty, lifeless and superficial it all was.

[Ansgar]

I'd like to ask all of our Scandinavians in here whether you miss Western liturgy? AFAIK all Scandinavian state churches have fairly traditional Western liturgy as their standard sunday service so it's sort of part of our cultures.

Well, it's hard to say. When I attend a lutheran church, I sometimes do miss it and think about how great it would be if the churches could be filled again, but I still think that something is missing from the danish liturgy. The swedish and norwegian liturgies for example have kept much more of their catholic inheritance. I once attended a norwegian wedding and I was surprised to see that the priest were wearing a chasuble. I have only seen one danish priest wearing a chasuble in all my life. So while the danish liturgy is nice, I wouldn't give away the divine liturgy for anything.

I wonder how the liturgy of the Nordic Catholic Church compares.

I just watched some parts of their liturgy. It really looks like a lutheran mass, just with some catholic elements and I could recognize some of the things. They don't sound weird or anything though. Just another high lutheran traditionalist group.

[Ansgar]

I attended a Church of Norway service last Sunday. It opens with the "Kyrie eleison, Gud Fader, forbarme Deg", etc. sung in very traditional plainchant. As a child, the plainchant stuff was the only part of the service I ever liked. I found it very moving, despite the organ, and I suddenly got very nostalgic

I know. The danish church doesn't use chant anymore and then, last year, when I watched the memorial service for the Utøya victims (may their memory be eternal), the deacon(or church servant, I'm not really sure) started chanting the creed and I was completely mindblowed. It was beautiful.

[Alpo]

I just watched some parts of their liturgy. It really looks like a lutheran mass, just with some catholic elements and I could recognize some of the things. They don't sound weird or anything though. Just another high lutheran traditionalist group.

I don't know about Norwegian and Danish Lutherans but to me this definetely seems more Roman and Catholic than Lutheran.

[orthonorm]

Ansgar and Alpo,

Reading your posts today have brought more than a few smiles.

I laugh a lot but smile rarely.

You two are (there is no decent English word that doesn't come off as patronizing or at least I can't think of one, but it's really, really, good whatever it is).

Thanks.

[orthonorm]

I'd like to ask all of our Scandinavians in here whether you miss Western liturgy? AFAIK all Scandinavian state churches have fairly traditional Western liturgy as their standard sunday service so it's sort of part of our cultures.

Well, it's hard to say. When I attend a lutheran church, I sometimes do miss it and think about how great it would be if the churches could be filled again, but I still think that something is missing from the danish liturgy. The swedish and norwegian liturgies for example have kept much more of their catholic inheritance. I once attended a norwegian wedding and I was surprised to see that the priest were wearing a chasuble. I have only seen one danish priest wearing a chasuble in all my life. So while the danish liturgy is nice, I wouldn't give away the divine liturgy for anything.

Maybe I missed it, but do you have a link to a Lutheran liturgy from your parts?

[Ansgar]

I just watched some parts of their liturgy. It really looks like a lutheran mass, just with some catholic elements and I could recognize some of the things. They don't sound weird or anything though. Just another high lutheran traditionalist group.

I don't know about Norwegian and Danish Lutherans but to me this definetely seems more Roman and Catholic than Lutheran.

That was quite catholic. I watched this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Vvx3hc-bA&feature=player_embedded

Many of the prayers can also be found in the danish church, just in a less liturgical fashion.

[Ansgar]

I'd like to ask all of our Scandinavians in here whether you miss Western liturgy? AFAIK all Scandinavian state churches have fairly traditional Western liturgy as their standard sunday service so it's sort of part of our cultures.

Well, it's hard to say. When I attend a lutheran church, I sometimes do miss it and think about how great it would be if the churches could be filled again, but I still think that something is missing from the danish liturgy. The swedish and norwegian liturgies for example have kept much more of their catholic inheritance. I once attended a norwegian wedding and I was surprised to see that the priest were wearing a chasuble. I have only seen one danish priest wearing a chasuble in all my life. So while the danish liturgy is nice, I wouldn't give away the divine liturgy for anything.

Maybe I missed it, but do you have a link to a Lutheran liturgy from your parts?

Man, are you lucky. I just found a complete danish christmas mass and here, the priest are actually wearing a chasuble. The liturgy is still as in every other church though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-MK5dGgYrA&feature=relmfu (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cDIyDo0q3o&feature=related (part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cDIyDo0q3o&feature=relmfu (part 3)

(You will see the priest singing some of the parts of the mass which is very rare but do happen in some parishes)

[Alpo]

That was quite catholic. I watched this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Vvx3hc-bA&feature=player_embedded

Well that was indeed more Lutheran. Except for the icons and Slavic crosses which are painful reminder that this could have been an Orthodox church if something hadn't went wrong.

[Ansgar]

That was quite catholic. I watched this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9Vvx3hc-bA&feature=player_embedded

Well that was indeed more Lutheran. Except for the icons and Slavic crosses which are painful reminder that this could have been an Orthodox church if something hadn't went wrong.

Yeah, it's sad. Appearently, they know about the orthodox church. They mention it shortly in the introduction.

[celticfan1888]

I'd like to ask all of our Scandinavians in here whether you miss Western liturgy? AFAIK all Scandinavian state churches have fairly traditional Western liturgy as their standard sunday service so it's sort of part of our cultures.

Some days I legitimately do. And when I go back and visit I wish it could be part of Orthodoxy.

[Ansgar]

Our archimandrite led a pilgrimage to Serbia. They even met Patriarch Irenej.  
http://www.ortodoks.com/

[William]

Are Lutheran masses kind of Roman rite or a unique Germanic rite?

Also, I'd think the Slavic rite would work culturally in Scandinavia seeing as how the Rus' were Scandinavians and Russian Orthodoxy is a state church in Finland.

[Ansgar]

Are Lutheran masses kind of Roman rite or a unique Germanic rite?

Also, I'd think the Slavic rite would work culturally in Scandinavia seeing as how the Rus' were Scandinavians and Russian Orthodoxy is a state church in Finland.

It depends. The norwegian liturgy is still relatively high liturgical, while the danish liturgy(with a few excpetions) is very lutheranized.

[Orthodox11]

Also, I'd think the Slavic rite would work culturally in Scandinavia seeing as how the Rus' were Scandinavians

The Rus were Scandinavians, but the Rite used is Byzantine, the modern Slavic form of which developed in an environment which was quite distinct from that of the Scandinavian countries. The grandure of Imperial Russia, which shapes so much of modern Russian practice, is pretty much antithetical to every aspect of Scandinavian culture. "It's just too much" has been the general verdict of Norwegians I know who have attended Orthodox liturgies. So I don't think the cultural connection is as meaningful as it might appear at first sight.

I have always thought the Old Rite (in a less austere form perhaps) would be very appropriate in a Scandinavian context.

[Ansgar]

I have always thought the Old Rite (in a less austere form perhaps) would be very appropriate in a Scandinavian context.
 

Really? I have always thought that even with the old rite, most scandinavians would find the liturgy way to emotional.

[Orthodox11]

Really? I have always thought that even with the old rite, most scandinavians would find the liturgy way to emotional.

It will always be foreign to those who grew up in such a radically different tradition but I think the older, simpler, less ostentatious Russian forms preserved in the Old Rite would be more appropriate in a Scandinavian context. I'm talking here only about the rite, of course, not about the "Old Believers" themselves.

[Gorazd]

The "lower" Lutheran services in Germany are due to the enlightenment and Reformed influences (remember, the Hohenzollern family was Calvinist, not Lutheran).

Luther himself said mass in German, but in quite a high style. About the same as Lutheran masses in Sweden or Finland today.

As for liturgy being "too much", we can respond that we do not do ur own thing, but we do join the worship of the angels in heaven.

[Jason.Wike]

Also, I'd think the Slavic rite would work culturally in Scandinavia seeing as how the Rus' were Scandinavians

The Rus were Scandinavians, but the Rite used is Byzantine, the modern Slavic form of which developed in an environment which was quite distinct from that of the Scandinavian countries. The grandure of Imperial Russia, which shapes so much of modern Russian practice, is pretty much antithetical to every aspect of Scandinavian culture. "It's just too much" has been the general verdict of Norwegians I know who have attended Orthodox liturgies. So I don't think the cultural connection is as meaningful as it might appear at first sight.

I have always thought the Old Rite (in a less austere form perhaps) would be very appropriate in a Scandinavian context.

I'm curious how the Old Rite is different and what would make it more appropriate? I've seen videos of their services that always seem to be set in the woods, so not sure how that is different from when they actually have a church.

[Orthodox11]

I'm curious how the Old Rite is different and what would make it more appropriate? I've seen videos of their services that always seem to be set in the woods, so not sure how that is different from when they actually have a church.

It's not so much the rites themselves (I don't really like calling them "rites" since they're all just variants of the same Byzantine Rite), and more the manner in which they're performed today. The Old Rite just seems to be more understated, lesh flashy. I don't have first hand experience of it though, so my impression of it might be wrong.

[Alpo]

The grandure of Imperial Russia, which shapes so much of modern Russian practice, is pretty much antithetical to every aspect of Scandinavian culture. "It's just too much" has been the general verdict of Norwegians I know who have attended Orthodox liturgies. So I don't think the cultural connection is as meaningful as it might appear at first sight.

I don't know about (former?) state church of Norway but the developments of liturgical services in the state church of Finland has been more
to high church direction than the other way around.

[Ansgar]

Theotoke parthene in Norwegian 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12OXczv8GGA&feature=plcp

[biro]

Theotoke parthene in Norwegian 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12OXczv8GGA&feature=plcp

My favorite hymn! 

[Orthodox11]

Theotoke parthene in Norwegian 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12OXczv8GGA&feature=plcp

I noticed he uses Gudføderinne instead of Gudføderske. How is Theotokos translated in the Danish Orthodox liturgical books?

[Ansgar]

Theotoke parthene in Norwegian 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12OXczv8GGA&feature=plcp

I noticed he uses Gudføderinne instead of Gudføderske. How is Theotokos translated in the Danish Orthodox liturgical books?

We translate it to Gudsføderske too.

[Orthodox11]

We translate it to Gudsføderske too.

I actually perfer Gudføderinne (first time I hear it), but too many syllables to work in most liturgical texts. Gudføderske has the benefit of having the same amount of syllables as the Greek, which makes it easier to adapt to the Byzantine melodies.

[Alpo]

Theotoke parthene in Norwegian  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12OXczv8GGA&feature=plcp

Beautiful! I don't mind Greek so much but the Norwegian part was awesome.

Btw, It's Gudsföderska also in Finlandssvensk.

[Orthodox11]

HAPPY OLSOK!!!

Olav den Hellige - Norges evige konge

Olav Haraldsson (995-1030) står i en særstilling blant norske helgener: Han var konge mens han levde og ble siden en uhyre populær helgen både i øst og vest. Det er ingen overdrivelse å si at Olav er verdenshistoriens mest betydningsfulle nordmann. Derfor er der skrevet uttallige tusen sider de siste tusen årene om hans liv og død, hans jærtegn og mirakler. I denne omtalen må vi nøye oss med et lite omriss av hans levned og eftermæle.

   
Olav var en eftertenksom og staut mann, rettferdig men streng; han var både skald (dikter) og treskjærer. Men først og fremst var han kongelig, ætling av Harald Hårfagre. Han vokste opp som hedning på en kongsgård på Ringeriket.

Ungdomsårene

Det var en rå og brutal tid kongsemnet fødtes inn i. Som tolvåring forlot den kraftige, brunhårede gutten gårdslivets ro og drog til sjøs som viking. Han herjet i øst og i vest. Efter en stund havnet han i tjeneste hos en kristen konge, Æthelred II av England; lite tydet imidlertid på at Olav skulle bli en hellig mann. Dog gikk han snart i tjeneste hos en annen kristen, hertug Richard II av Normandie. Påvirkningen fra de europeiske herskerne må ha gjort noe med Olavs sinnelag, for her, i Rouen, åpnet han seg for evangeliet og lot seg døpe til Kristus.
Omlag år 1014 ligger Olav med skipene sine ved Gibraltar. Han hører en stemme som sier: "Far du tilbake til din odel, for du skal bli Norges konge til evig tid!" Den unge mannen fatter ikke helt hva dette innebærer, men han skjønner at det er et tegn og stevner nordover.

Konge av Norge

Året efter lander Olav på Selja, helgenøya. Idet han steger ut av skipet, snubler han og utbryter: "Nå falt jeg!" Men følgesvennen svarer: "Du falt ikke, konge - nå festet du fot i landet." Drotten ler og sier: "Det kan så være, om Gud vil."

I Olavs liv viser nederlag seg ikke sjelden å bli til seier. Til tross for det politiske nederlaget som skulle komme, ble han Norges apostel.


Norge er på denne tiden et splittet rike styrt av lokale høvdinger og mektige menn. Olav kommer til makten og evner å samle det splittede Norgesveldet. Ti år med fred følger. Og Olav utnytter tiden vel: Med seg i skipene som la til på Vestlandet hadde kongen biskop Grimkjell og flere andre biskoper og prester; kongens kall er å fullende kristningen av Norge.

Han forkynner den Gud som har skapt verden og alt som lever; han forkynner Hvitekrist (som vikingene kaller Kristus) født av en jomfru og oppstanden fra døden til menneskets frelse; han forkynner Den Hellige Ånd som lever i Kirken. I en liturgisk Olavshymne heter det at han "utførte evangelistens tjeneste på mest hengivne vis, iført troens brynje og frelsens hjelm. Han besøkte egnene der omkring og sådde overalt frelsens lære. Gode Jesus, hvilke anstrengelser tålte han ikke for å omvende folket."

På denne tiden innfører Hl. Olav kristenretten: Ved tinget på Moster (1024) får han vedtatt kristne lover, og han befester troens og kirkeinstitusjonens stilling i landet. Før Olavs tid var kirken i Norge en løselig sammensatt misjonskirke; nå blir kirken nordmennenes religiøse fellesskap. Kristendommen trer inn som et viktig element i norsk kultur; det blir påbudt å gi arbeidsfolk og seg selv fri om søndagen, det blir forbudt å sette ut uønskede spedbarn for å dø, tvangsekteskap og flerkoneri forbys, faste- og festdagene blir innført som en del av folks dagligliv osv. Der hvor man tidligere har blotet og dyrket hedendommen, på gårder og helligsteder, reises nå kirkebygg - stort sett små stavkirker. Hver bygd skal ha en kirke. Messen, Den guddommelige liturgi, feires rundt om i riket.

Men Olav har altså ikke utelukkende fremgang. Den digre mannens iver og strenghet driver ham til å bruke ufine metoder; han oppfører seg tidvis mere som politiker enn som kristenmann og får folk imot seg. Idet han utvider lovens og rikskongedømmets myndighet, svekker han de lokale krigshøvdingenes makt. Heller ikke stormakten Danmark er begeistret for utviklingen. Når høvdingene og danskekongen rotter seg sammen - og deler av bondestanden henger seg på - har Olav skaffet seg et så stort kobbel fiender at han må rømme landet. I 1028 tvinges kongen i utlegd. På vei østover misjonerer han på Gotland og blir siden regnet som Gotlands nasjonalhelgen.

Kjærlighet og eksil i Russland

Heller ikke i kjærlighetslivet hadde kongen hatt det store hellet. Tidlig ble Olav trolovet med den fromme Ingegjerd fra Sverige (som senere skulle regnes blant de hellige), men før han visste ordet av det, hadde faren gitt henne til Jaroslav den Vise i Russland. Olav ektet isteden Ingegjerds halvsøster, frilledatteren Astrid. Forholdet mellom Olav og Ingegjerd var imidlertid et inderlig kjærlighetsforhold, og begge tok bruddet svært tungt.

Men nå, flere år senere, blir han altså nødt til å gå i eksil. Efter Gotlandsoppholdet farer han videre østover til Russland. Som en slagen mann søker han ly hos storfyrsteparet Jaroslav og Ingegjerd. De tar vel imot ham i Novgorod (eller Kiev - det er uklart hvilken av de to hovedstedene han oppholder seg i.) Sagaen beretter at Olav er begeistret for å møte sin gamle flamme, for de to har fremdeles et godt øye til hverandre. Men i det voksende russiske riket møter Olav også en vital kristendom og en kirke som blomstrer i all sin prakt. Og i all ydmykhet - klostrene skyter frem i Jaroslav og Ingegjerds rike.

Hl. Olav var ingen asketisk helgen som levde et dydig liv i all fromhet og renhet. Hans religiøsitet trengte lang tid for å modnes. Men nå, som en fallen konge, får han flust av tid til å gruble over livet og gå til Gudstjeneste. Snorre forteller at først her, i Gardarike (Russland), lot Olav sin personlige kristentro utdypes. Han vurderte å dra til Jerusalem på pilegrimsferd eller å gå i kloster. Det viste seg også at han hadde evnen til å helbrede syke, blant andre Ingegjerds blinde sønn Vladimir.

Nederlag og seier

I 1030 viser Olav Tryggvason seg for Haraldssønnen i drømme; han byr ham å vende tilbake til fedrelandet. Olav røskes ut av grubleriene og takker nei til fyrsteparets tilbud om å overta styret av Bulgaria. Han har kanskje allerede innsett at seieren må skje gjennom nederlag, og at hans kors ligger i Norge. I hvert fall lar han sin sønn Magnus bli tilbake i Russland når han selv drar med en liten styrke mot Norge; han vil forsøke å gjenvinne riket, selv om norske og svenske stormenn råder ham fra det.

Drotten rir inn i Norge gjennom Verdalen. Slaget står tidlig om morgenen på Stiklestad i Trøndelag. Det går ikke lenge før Olavs menn må gi tapt mot overmakten. Kongen blir drept av Thore Hunds hugg før non den 29. juli. Dagen efter går merkelig nok banemannen ut på marken og vasker liket. Blodet fra den døde heler Thores egne sår.

Mangt i Olavs liv handlet om ukristelige ting som makt og vold og krig. Men det underligste med Olav er hvorledes han døde som en mislykket konge og en ussel kriger med mangfoldige fiender i landet. I vikingtiden - en tid da krigersk heltemot og styrke var en manns viktigste dyder - døde Olav som en svekling. Likesom for hans lidelsesdøyende trosbrødre Hl. Boris og Gleb ble hans svakhet ham til styrke og hans død til liv.

Snart efter slaget på Stiklestad skjedde nemlig en mengde mirakler i forbindelse med martyrens legeme; der finnes egne bokverk som tar for seg alle Olavs mirakler og undergjerninger, så mangfoldige er de. Kongens levninger råtnet ikke, men håret fortsatte å vokse, hans kinn var rødlatne og livlige. Folk ble helbredet i hopetall.

Med Olav den Helliges død ble kristendommen hele Norges tro. De som nettopp hadde kvestet kongen, ble med ett hans tilhengere. Selve drapsmannen Thore Hund angret og drog på botsferd til Jerusalem. I døden maktet Olav hva han ikke greide i livet: å samle og kristne riket. Slik ble han Norges evige konge.

En europeisk helgen

Ikke bare ble Olav hurtig Nordens mest populære helgen; han ble også en av de store europeiske helgener. Nidaros (Trondheim) ble straks et pilegrimsmål for folk fra "hele verden". I vår egen tid valfarter fremdeles ortodokse kristne (samt protestanter og katolikker) til Trondheim, selv om det meste av Olavsrelikviene dessverre gikk tapt i forbindelse med reformasjonen. Én relikvie er imidlertid bevart; den befinner seg nå i St. Olav romersk-katolske domkirke i Oslo. Resten av Hl. Olavs levninger er trolig begravet ett eller annet sted rundt Nidarosdomen.

Men over det meste av Norge finnes Olavskilder og andre hellige steder som lokale tradisjoner setter i forbindelse med Olavs nærvær. Norske guttebarn er overalt siden blitt kalt Ola(v/f) eller Ole efter den store helgenen. Også legende urter og planter i den norske floraen fikk navn efter ham. Hl. Olav er av eftertiden blitt sett på som en helbreder og bekjemper av troll.

Olavskulten spredte seg raskt i den kristne verden, både østover og vestover. Olavskirker og -monumenter ble snart efter 1030 reist også i alle deler av den kristne verden, blant annet i Novgorod og Vyborg (i Russland), Gdansk (Polen) og Tallinn (Estland). Olavskapellet i Konstantinopel skal ha oppbevart Olavs mirakuløse sverd Bæsing. I Fødselskirken i Betlehem finnes et gammelt Olavsikon (fra 1200-tallet) i bysantinsk stil malt på en av kirkens søyler. I Norden og Vest-Europa har Olavskulten vært enda videre utbredt; i Sverige alene har hver tredje middelalderkirke et Olavsbillede, og man kjenner over 75 Olavskirker i landet. Der er forresten en del eksempler på at kirker (blant annet i London og København) ble viet både Hl. Olav og Hl. Nikolai!

Hl. Olav ble ikke minst en nasjonal helgen for Norge. Olavsikoner ble i middelalderen båret i prosesjon rundt åkrene med bønner for årsveksten; Olav ble dertil regnet som dyrenes og særlig hestenes beskytter. Hans festdag Olsok feires den 29. juli (11. august); dagen ble og blir fremdeles feiret med dans, bål og et festmåltid med øl, rømmegrøt og spekemat. Vesle Olsok kalles 3. august (16. august) som er en feiring av at hans legeme ble gravet opp og lagt i et relikvieskrin i 1031. Over gravstedet ble der senere reist en Kristkirke som vi idag kaller Nidarosdomen.

Både Hl. Nikolai og Hl. Olga menighet ærer Olav som ortodoks helgen, og for noen måneder siden ble et Olasvsikon innviet av russiske geistlige i den norske ambassaden i Moskva. Olav avbildes ofte med en øks - martyrvåpenet. Source

[celticfan1888]

HAPPY OLSOK!!!

Indeed! We sang for St. Olav at the church today. My priest pointed to me at the end of liturgy and said "look, there's the King of the Norse himself". lol

[Alpo]

I just heard that there is a relic of St. Olav in Helsinki! Even more cooler is that it's located on an altar of (RC) chapel of St. Olav, not in a museum. Guess who's going to make a pilgrimage.

I'm having a temptation to steal it in order to place in it's proper context i.e. Orthodox altar table or into an icon. After all, they took our relics of St. Mark so it's kind of fair that we get our share of their relics.  

[Ansgar]

I just heard that there is a relic of St. Olav in Helsinki! Even more cooler is that it's located on an altar of (RC) chapel of St. Olav, not in a museum. Guess who's going to make a pilgrimage.

I'm having a temptation to steal it in order to place in it's proper context i.e. Orthodox altar table or into an icon. After all, they took our relics of St. Mark so it's kind of fair that we get our share of their relics.  

Good luck 

[mabsoota]

hey, they gave back some relics of saint mark, so we should give them a break!
 
http://www.copticchurch.net/synaxarium/10_15.html#1

[celticfan1888]

I just heard that there is a relic of St. Olav in Helsinki! Even more cooler is that it's located on an altar of (RC) chapel of St. Olav, not in a museum. Guess who's going to make a pilgrimage.

I'm having a temptation to steal it in order to place in it's proper context i.e. Orthodox altar table or into an icon. After all, they took our relics of St. Mark so it's kind of fair that we get our share of their relics.  

Do it! It isn't stealing, just taking back what's ours.

[William]

Are Nordic countries really secular?

[Alpo]

Are Nordic countries really secular?

AFAIK with the exception of Norway, we have state churches and most of the population are still members of these state churches but people rarely attend the services. They might believe in God or some other supernatural entity, have somewhat Christian moral views, baptize their children and celebrate Santa Claus Chrismas but that's about it.

[celticfan1888]

Are Nordic countries really secular?

Absolutely, check out the agnosticism. Most of family isn't very church-going. lol

[ialmisry]

Are Nordic countries really secular?

AFAIK with the exception of Norway, we have state churches and most of the population are still members of these state churches but people rarely attend the services. They might believe in God or some other supernatural entity, have somewhat Christian moral views, baptize their children and celebrate Santa Claus Chrismas but that's about it.

Wasn't the Swedish church disestablished a few years ago?

[ialmisry]

Theotoke parthene in Norwegian  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12OXczv8GGA&feature=plcp

I noticed he uses Gudføderinne instead of Gudføderske. How is Theotokos translated in the Danish Orthodox liturgical books?

We translate it to Gudsføderske too.

LOL.  We dealt with this in passing:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,27405.msg520154.html#msg520154
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,42150.msg690506.html#msg690506

[Orthodox11]

LOL.  We dealt with this in passing:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,27405.msg520154.html#msg520154
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,42150.msg690506.html#msg690506

There's no difference in meaning between Gudføderske and Gudføderinne - they both mean Theotokos/God-birther - it's just a question of which feminine ending is more pleasing to the ear, and which is more suitable for liturgical texts given the different number of syllables.


Miter Theou/Mother of God would be Guds Moder.

[VarangianGuard]

Hei,

Ny mann her.
Er katolikk, men har kommet i sterk tvil om en del saker og har bestemt meg for å undersøke  bedre de ortodokse standpunkter, idet noen av de ting jeg har begynt å tvile på nettopp  er noen av de ortodokse stridigheter med Romas krav, deriblant ecclesiologi.

[Ansgar]

Endnu en nordmand

Hvornår kommer svenskerne?

[Gorazd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TURF8W0c39c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3OcBTNG_DE&feature=plcp

Annual celebration of St. George in Neiden, Norway. I wonder, what languages are they singing in?

[Ansgar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TURF8W0c39c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3OcBTNG_DE&feature=plcp

Annual celebration of St. George in Neiden, Norway. I wonder, what languages are they singing in?

I think it's finnish.

[Ansgar]

Uhh, I saw archimandrite Johannes in the second video 

[Alpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TURF8W0c39c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3OcBTNG_DE&feature=plcp

Annual celebration of St. George in Neiden, Norway. I wonder, what languages are they singing in?

I think it's finnish.

Correct. The bishops are Metropolitan Panteleimon of Oulu and auxiliary Bishop Arseny of Joensuu. They seemed to be on a some kind of pilgrimage in Norway

[ialmisry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TURF8W0c39c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3OcBTNG_DE&feature=plcp

Annual celebration of St. George in Neiden, Norway. I wonder, what languages are they singing in?

I think it's finnish.

Perhaps Skot Sami?

[Gorazd]

Perhaps Skot Sami?

That's what I thought first, but I wasn't sure. So I asked.

Anyway, we see in these videos that Orthodoxy is doing fine in Scandinavia. Glory to God for that!

[ialmisry]

Perhaps Skot Sami?

That's what I thought first, but I wasn't sure. So I asked.

Anyway, we see in these videos that Orthodoxy is doing fine in Scandinavia. Glory to God for that!

LOL.  I was just guessing.  I wouldn't know Sami if I heard it (though I know I have heard it, I've been to Lappland).

God grant it!  Especially among the natives!

[William]

Finnmark!

[Alpo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TURF8W0c39c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3OcBTNG_DE&feature=plcp
bu
Annual celebration of St. George in Neiden, Norway. I wonder, what languages are they singing in?

I think it's finnish.

Perhaps Skot Sami?

Nope. Skolt Sami is used liturgically at some extentent in Finnish Lapland but the language in the video is just plain old Finnish.

[Ansgar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TURF8W0c39c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3OcBTNG_DE&feature=plcp
bu
Annual celebration of St. George in Neiden, Norway. I wonder, what languages are they singing in?

I think it's finnish.

Perhaps Skot Sami?

Nope. Skolt Sami is used liturgically at some extentent in Finnish Lapland but the language in the video is just plain old Finnish.

I would love to hear a liturgy in Skolt Sami.
I wonder what the Orthodox Church has to say about joik.

[Alpo]

I wonder what the Orthodox Church has to say about joik.

It cannot be incorporated into services but apart from that I don't think the Church has any specific opinion about it. Just like she doesn't have one about other forms of ethnic music.

[Ansgar]

Fadervor på svensk 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVt_5yF65Dk&feature=plcp

[celticfan1888]

Maybe my next tattoo.

[Alpo]

Välkommen till Ambon!
Din ortodoxa bokhandel på nätet!

[Ansgar]

Pascha in Sweden 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oft_Upvz8Gg&feature=plcp

I wonder if Jonathan Gress will be joining us at some point.

[Alpo]

Pascha in Sweden  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oft_Upvz8Gg&feature=plcp

AFAIK that's the only Finnish EO parish outside of Finland and it's primary language is Swedish. AFAIK the Finnish church provides at least some of their clergy and Finnish bishops make visits there but it's not part of the Finnish church but a regular part of local EP's diocese. IMO that's how Orthodox diaspora should work: accept clergy from your homecountry but don't bring your church with you if there is already an Orthodox church where you live.

[Gorazd]

The Finnish parish in Stockholm doesnt really "work", since the Greek metropolitan prevents the installation of a permanent priest. The one suggested by Archbishop Leo of Finland was a Finland-Swedish priest, who would have used mostly Swedish. The Greek hierarchy told Finland to send a "real Finn". Somehow that didnt work out, so currently there arent weekly liturgies, only about once a month, and the clergy travels over from Finland for that.

[Alpo]

The Finnish parish in Stockholm doesnt really "work", since the Greek metropolitan prevents the installation of a permanent priest. The one suggested by Archbishop Leo of Finland was a Finland-Swedish priest, who would have used mostly Swedish. The Greek hierarchy told Finland to send a "real Finn". Somehow that didnt work out, so currently there arent weekly liturgies, only about once a month, and the clergy travels over from Finland for that.

LOL. Are all Greek hierarchs like that? I have no real-life experience about them but it seems that every time someone wrotes on internet something about Greek Orthodoxy it's always incidents like that.

[Alpo]

I'd like to ask all people here who live in Scandinavia whether you have noticed any interest in pre-Schism Scandinavian Orthodoxy in your countries? Does your parishes revere Scandinavian Saints? Is there any interest in Western rite?

[Ansgar]

I'd like to ask all people here who live in Scandinavia whether you have noticed any interest in pre-Schism Scandinavian Orthodoxy in your countries? Does your parishes revere Scandinavian Saints? Is there any interest in Western rite?

My priest wrote an article about Christianity in Denmark before the Schism. He was criticised by a church historian who seemed to have a rather strange understanding of ecclesiastic unity.
I know that Saint Olav is very popular in Norway and Saint Anna in Sweden. I don't think many people in Denmark know about Saint Ansgar (the only orthodox saint who can be associated with Denmark) and Orthodoxy is still rather unknown.

I know that a small group of lutherans are using high liturgical rites and vestments. Maybe one day, if they get tired of the lutheran church, they will discover Orthodoxy.

[Gorazd]

I'd like to ask all people here who live in Scandinavia whether you have noticed any interest in pre-Schism Scandinavian Orthodoxy in your countries? Does your parishes revere Scandinavian Saints? Is there any interest in Western rite?

I have not noticed any of this on visiting Sweden. Examples for an indigenous Scandinavian Orthodoxy seem to be rather Finland and Neiden.

[Alpo]

I'd like to ask all people here who live in Scandinavia whether you have noticed any interest in pre-Schism Scandinavian Orthodoxy in your countries? Does your parishes revere Scandinavian Saints? Is there any interest in Western rite?

I have not noticed any of this on visiting Sweden. Examples for an indigenous Scandinavian Orthodoxy seem to be rather Finland and Neiden.

In Finland Orthodoxy has grew out of Karelia only during recent decades and mostly because of massive evacuation of Karelians from those areas which were annexed to Soviet Union after wars. Still, even today some seem to deem is just a Karelian phenomenon and it seems that our church has no interest in changing it. Finnish Synaxarium contains some Scandinavian Saints but I don't think they are on the calendar.

[celticfan1888]

Does your parishes revere Scandinavian Saints? Is there any interest in Western rite?

The parish in Bergen, dear God, yes. To both.

The parish is Russian though, so I doubt there will be Western Rite anytime soon (and all parishes in the country I know of are either Russian or Greek).

[Orthodox11]

The parish in Bergen, dear God, yes. To both.

The parish is Russian though, so I doubt there will be Western Rite anytime soon (and all parishes in the country I know of are either Russian or Greek).

Orthodoxy in Norway is so small, with so few priests, so little oversight over parishes (most don't have weekly Liturgies - it's mostly lay reader services), very little good material available in translation, that setting up Western Rite parishes would be a total disaster.

[celticfan1888]

The parish in Bergen, dear God, yes. To both.

The parish is Russian though, so I doubt there will be Western Rite anytime soon (and all parishes in the country I know of are either Russian or Greek).

Orthodoxy in Norway is so small, with so few priests, so little oversight over parishes (most don't have weekly Liturgies - it's mostly lay reader services), very little good material available in translation, that setting up Western Rite parishes would be a total disaster.

Agreed. To my sadness.

[Alpo]

The parish in Bergen, dear God, yes. To both.

The parish is Russian though, so I doubt there will be Western Rite anytime soon (and all parishes in the country I know of are either Russian or Greek).

Orthodoxy in Norway is so small, with so few priests, so little oversight over parishes (most don't have weekly Liturgies - it's mostly lay reader services), very little good material available in translation, that setting up Western Rite parishes would be a total disaster.

I don't mean to advocate anything but if there is an area without fully functioning Orthodox parish or without local Orthodox priest who actually live in the midst of his parishioners why would it be a total disaster if some priest wanted to set up a WR parish in that kind of area?

[Orthodox11]

I don't mean to advocate anything but if there is an area without fully functioning Orthodox parish or without local Orthodox priest who actually live in the midst of his parishioners why would it be a total disaster if some priest wanted to set up a WR parish in that kind of area?

Who would this priest be? If there's no one to serve the existing small group of Orthodox, shall we bring in a new priest to serve an even smaller group of people rather than ministering to the needs of those already there? Would seem like terrible mismanagement, no?

[Alpo]

I don't mean to advocate anything but if there is an area without fully functioning Orthodox parish or without local Orthodox priest who actually live in the midst of his parishioners why would it be a total disaster if some priest wanted to set up a WR parish in that kind of area?

Who would this priest be? If there's no one to serve the existing small group of Orthodox, shall we bring in a new priest to serve an even smaller group of people rather than ministering to the needs of those already there? Would seem like terrible mismanagement, no?

I was speaking theoretically. I've no idea who that priest would be.

Why would a WR priest serve only smaller community? If there is no ER priest available this theoretical WR priest could minister all of the Orthodox in the area regardless of cultural background. A priest is a priest and sacraments are sacraments no matter the rite.

[celticfan1888]

I don't mean to advocate anything but if there is an area without fully functioning Orthodox parish or without local Orthodox priest who actually live in the midst of his parishioners why would it be a total disaster if some priest wanted to set up a WR parish in that kind of area?

Who would this priest be? If there's no one to serve the existing small group of Orthodox, shall we bring in a new priest to serve an even smaller group of people rather than ministering to the needs of those already there? Would seem like terrible mismanagement, no?

Now that I think about it:

You could bring in maybe one traveling ROCOR WR priest to start out with, and see how it does. Maybe just in Oslo, Bergen, and/or Trondhjem to start with.

A lot of these parishes around the country don't have a permanent priest, so I really don't see how it would "hurt" Orthodoxy in the areas in anyway to have a change of Rite. It obviously doesn't (and shouldn't) need to be every congregation, but maybe just one or two. If anything, maybe Western Rite will make people feel a little more familiar (in a sense) to experience it.

But I'm no expert.

[celticfan1888]

Does anyone know where I can get the number of Orthodox in Norway? The wiki doesn't give a number, but I am guessing...maybe 8,000 across the country (who are members, not necessarily attend weekly)?

http://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den_ortodokse_kyrkja_i_Noreg

[Alpo]

I don't know how things work in Norway but in Finland there are many immigrant EOs who doesn't ever officiallly register as a member of the Church despite being sacramentally a member of the Church. Most of the World doesn't work as bureuecratically as Scandinavian socialism does.

[ialmisry]

I don't mean to advocate anything but if there is an area without fully functioning Orthodox parish or without local Orthodox priest who actually live in the midst of his parishioners why would it be a total disaster if some priest wanted to set up a WR parish in that kind of area?

Who would this priest be? If there's no one to serve the existing small group of Orthodox, shall we bring in a new priest to serve an even smaller group of people rather than ministering to the needs of those already there? Would seem like terrible mismanagement, no?

It was terrible mismanagement which shut the door on the Nordic Catholic Church.  We could have had a whole WRO Church in Norway.

[Alpo]

It was terrible mismanagement which shut the door on the Nordic Catholic Church.  We could have had a whole WRO Church in Norway.

Any source? You've said that quite often but I've seen nothingabout it on online interviews etc. Do you have Norwegian contacts or something?

IMO rite is a secondary question in conversion. If one believes that Orthodoxy is the Church one will convert even if local bishop doesn't grant permisson for WRO.

[Gorazd]

If they want to be Orthodox, they should affirm Orthodox ecclesiology, rather than the branch theory. And any kind of intercommunion with low-chburch Anglican Calvinists is absolutely incompatible with Orthodoxy, even if those are conservatives who reject gay marriage...

[Alpo]

If they want to be Orthodox, they should affirm Orthodox ecclesiology, rather than the branch theory. And any kind of intercommunion with low-chburch Anglican Calvinists is absolutely incompatible with Orthodoxy, even if those are conservatives who reject gay marriage...

Huh? Are you talking about Nordic Catholic Church? I thought they were in communion only with PNCC.

[Gorazd]

If they want to be Orthodox, they should affirm Orthodox ecclesiology, rather than the branch theory. And any kind of intercommunion with low-chburch Anglican Calvinists is absolutely incompatible with Orthodoxy, even if those are conservatives who reject gay marriage...

Huh? Are you talking about Nordic Catholic Church? I thought they were in communion only with PNCC.

At the moment, yes. But there are talks between the Union of Scranton and ACNA to establish a kind of Bonn Agreement.

[Ansgar]

A syriac liturgy in Sweden 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgKxiLqHoHA

[JorgenThorbjørnsen]

My church in Halmstad has a larger congregation than I've seen anywhere else in a Scandinavian country. What are your average attendances?

[Ansgar]

We are a small congregation. About 30-40, I think.

[JorgenThorbjørnsen]

We are a small congregation. About 30-40, I think.

That is truly not that bad.

We have probably 200 in Halmstad, seems ridiculous, but I kid you not.

[Orthodox11]

En ortodoks prest i Aftenposten.

Velsignet være kullkraften

"Den serbisk-ortodokse presten fader Rodney Torbic i Carmichaels, Pennsylvania er vant til å ha kullkraftverket som nærmeste nabo. Kirken hans har vært der siden området var et av USAs mest veldstående."

[Orthodox11]

Made a new thread

[ialmisry]

It was terrible mismanagement which shut the door on the Nordic Catholic Church.  We could have had a whole WRO Church in Norway.

Any source? You've said that quite often but I've seen nothingabout it on online interviews etc. Do you have Norwegian contacts or something?

IMO rite is a secondary question in conversion. If one believes that Orthodoxy is the Church one will convert even if local bishop doesn't grant permisson for WRO.

Somewhere I posted the Touchstone Article where the NKK pretty says that, but yes, I have contacts which tell the grittier truth.  In this case the local bishop doesn't grant permission for Scandinavians, i.e. Orthodoxy is strictly an immigrant thing.

[ialmisry]

Does anyone know where I can get the number of Orthodox in Norway? The wiki doesn't give a number, but I am guessing...maybe 8,000 across the country (who are members, not necessarily attend weekly)?

http://nn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den_ortodokse_kyrkja_i_Noreg

I don't know.  The contacts I've had with Norwegian Orthodox can't give an exact number, especially outside of Oslo.

[Ansgar]

I need some help.

http://kyrillos.dinstudio.se/

I have never heard about them before.

[Tommelomsky]

Avoid them. They are not in canonical OK state. The russians (ROCOR) totally avoids them and so should serbs, greeks and others do too.
Before anyone tells me what a fool I am to say this: many people at my parish that has been there since the beginning in 1995 has told me this in a crystal clear way that cannot and should not be misunderstood.

[Orthodox11]

I need some help.

http://kyrillos.dinstudio.se/

I have never heard about them before.

They're not Orthodox, they're just playing dress-up. Some of them are active on FB, part of 'Hellige Olavs Ortodokse Brorskap', just so you know who to avoid.

[Ansgar]

Thanks.

[Suryoyutho]

I was asked to write something about Oriental Orthodoxy in Scandinavia here. I don't really know what to write but the Syriac Church is big in Scandinavia (especielly Sweden). Besides some of the homelands the Church is probably biggest in Sweden with Germany pretty much even. My Church for example has around 1300-1400 members I believe. The other OO Churches aren't that strong in Scandinavia but all of them have congregations here in Sweden.

So if anyone has any questions, feel free.

[Dominika]

I was asked to write something about Oriental Orthodoxy in Scandinavia here. I don't really know what to write but the Syriac Church is big in Scandinavia (especielly Sweden). Besides some of the homelands the Church is probably biggest in Sweden with Germany pretty much even. My Church for example has around 1300-1400 members I believe. The other OO Churches aren't that strong in Scandinavia but all of them have congregations here in Sweden.

So if anyone has any questions, feel free.

Yeah, I've heard there are a lot Syriacs in Sweden. So my question is why particulary Sweden? Do you work more as missionary parishes or as for cradles? What's the language of sermons (as for Liturgy I think it's syriac, isn't it?)?

[Suryoyutho]

Yeah, I've heard there are a lot Syriacs in Sweden. So my question is why particulary Sweden? Do you work more as missionary parishes or as for cradles? What's the language of sermons (as for Liturgy I think it's syriac, isn't it?)?

It's a good country for people fleeing and who were in our situation I guess (especially at that time). Some went and people followed.

Much more for cradles but there are Swedes who have converted to the Church, some even involved in the Church now (f.ex. youth associations).

Mostly Syriac but in some (few in Sweden) they mix Arabic (depends on where the majority of the congregation is from).

[Ansgar]

I can't tell how many syrians we have, but I think that the copts are probably the most visible in Denmark. We also have a considerable number of ethiopians.

The copts have a beautiful little church in Tåstrup. 

[Suryoyutho]

Nice Church

Coptic Church growing in Sweden as well: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48743.0.html

[Ansgar]

Nice 

The coptic priest has stated that he would very much like to celebrate the liturgy in danish at some point in the future.

[Jason.Wike]

I need some help.

http://kyrillos.dinstudio.se/

I have never heard about them before.

Rule 73 of the internets: If they have a crappy website, they're not legit (exs. "Old Catholics," otherkin, ancient Celtick Wicca covens that were persecuted by Puritans in the middle ages etc).

[Alpo]

So my question is why particulary Sweden?

Liberal immigration policy? AFAIK there's lots of every kinds of immigrants  in Sweden.

Suryoyutho, are you aware of any OO parish in Scandinavia which has services in a Scandinavian language? What about any interest in Scandinavian Saints?

[Suryoyutho]

Suryoyutho, are you aware of any OO parish in Scandinavia which has services in a Scandinavian language? What about any interest in Scandinavian Saints?

Nope, but I've only attended Syriac services. Reminds me of my Church as a child where they held the services in Syriac, Arabic, and Kurdish, on Christmas/Easter it started at like 7-8 AM and ended at 12-1 PM. Quite tough at that age.

No, not much interest that I know of. But St Lucy's day is quite big in Sweden (even if she wasn't Scandinavian) and that tradition has kinda come into the Church . I know St Lucy is a saint in the EO Churches but not sure about OO, even though she lived before the councils.

[Alpo]

Kurdish?! There are Syriac Orthodox Kurds?

[Dominika]

Kurdish?! There are Syriac Orthodox Kurds?

Or rather Syriacs from Turkey and Iraq who due to living with Kurds for ages have started to talk their language, because it's more common and living language than Syriac/late Aramean

[Alpo]

Thanks. I should have thought that option too.

In my small corner of the World being able to speak Finnish an being a Finn are almost synonymous so I have hard time understanding other kind of cultures.

[Ansgar]

A finnish liturgy 

http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1748123

[Alpo]

A finnish liturgy 

http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1748123

Just in case anyone is interested, Swedish version of the same website can be found here:

http://arenan.yle.fi/tv

"YLE" is Finnish public broadcasting company and this website is their streaming service. As the Finnish Orthodox Church is the second state church, that website offers Orthodox services from time to time. I don't know how often though.

[Cantor Krishnich]

A finnish liturgy 

http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1748123

Just in case anyone is interested, Swedish version of the same website can be found here:

http://arenan.yle.fi/tv

"YLE" is Finnish public broadcasting company and this website is their streaming service. As the Finnish Orthodox Church is the second state church, that website offers Orthodox services from time to time. I don't know how often though.

I want to see the Orthodox liturgy in Sami, that would be cool!

[Alpo]

I want to see the Orthodox liturgy in Sami, that would be cool!

You're not the first one here who says that. Travel agencies have done their job well.

[Cantor Krishnich]

You're not the first one here who says that. Travel agencies have done their job well.

But are there any ethnic Sami Orthodox Christians?

[Alpo]

You're not the first one here who says that. Travel agencies have done their job well.

But are there any ethnic Sami Orthodox Christians?

Skolt Samis are Orthodox. However I don't know whether any of the liturgical texts are translated into their language. Probably something but I believe not entirely.

[Ansgar]

There was an orthodox reburial of some Skolt Samis back in 2011

 http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/troms_og_finnmark/1.7809234

[Cantor Krishnich]

Kurdish?! There are Syriac Orthodox Kurds?

Or rather Syriacs from Turkey and Iraq who due to living with Kurds for ages have started to talk their language, because it's more common and living language than Syriac/late Aramean

And the many Kurds who are converting to Christianity via the Syriac Churches and Protestantism. From what I've read, Kurds have been in the Syriac church for a long time...

[Ansgar]

Pictures from Theophany (not mine) 

[WPM]

It looks like European village Orthodoxy and not one of the bigger Metropolitan establishments.

[Ansgar]

You could call it that. It's a suburb outside of Copenhagen.

[Jason.Wike]

Pictures from Theophany (not mine) 

Its kinda odd seeing an Orthodox church full of such Germanic looking people.

[Tommelomsky]

That is because some of us are of germanic heritage.

[Alpo]

Pictures from Theophany (not mine) 

Its kinda odd seeing an Orthodox church full of such Germanic looking people.

Behold the Orthodox exotics: Western European White people.

[mildert]

Thanks for the pictures.  I met the Priest and Deacon at the last General Assembly in Paris.

In XC,

Deacon Philip

You could call it that. It's a suburb outside of Copenhagen.