OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 02, 2014, 05:41:03 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Transferring a Feast Day  (Read 732 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Mickey
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 1,309



« on: August 12, 2011, 01:09:59 PM »

It has recently come to my attention that some Antiochian Churches have received the Bishop's blessing to transfer the Feast of the Dormition of the Most Holy Theotokos from Monday, August 15 .....to Sunday August 14.  I did not think it was proper for Orthodox Churches to transfer feasts to Sunday.  Is this something that is done frequently?  It sounds very Roman Catholic to me.  Huh
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 01:23:46 PM »

Yes, transferring feasts (to closest Sunday mostly) is a popular practise.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
AWR
Greetings from the Southern Jersey Shore.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 240


Expelled from Paradise


WWW
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2011, 01:31:58 PM »

A lot of very small parishes and mission parishes do not come together more than once a week on Sunday.  These parishes most often celebrate some of the major feasts on the Sunday following the feast, but sometimes if the feast falls on a Monday they may celebrate it a day early.  This is not uncommon.  It may not be right but what can they do?  Skip the feast?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 01:32:55 PM by AWR » Logged
genesisone
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 2,482



« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2011, 01:36:10 PM »

It has recently come to my attention that some Antiochian Churches have received the Bishop's blessing to transfer the Feast of the Dormition of the Most Holy Theotokos from Monday, August 15 .....to Sunday August 14.  I did not think it was proper for Orthodox Churches to transfer feasts to Sunday.  Is this something that is done frequently?  It sounds very Roman Catholic to me.  Huh
We frequently do it. We have rented space that isn't always available other than Sunday mornings. Also, we have one priest, three chanters (two actively employed, one -me- retired), no other altar servers. There is a physical limit to what we can do. So it's either transfer the Feast or ignore it (except of course as it is commemorated on a Sunday of the festal season).

We will be the first to agree that it isn't ideal. We look forward to having a place of our own and a bit more help to lead services. In the meantime, what would you do given our situation?
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,970


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 01:41:21 PM »

I am Antiochian, and I have not heard of this. This is not the case at my church. If there is a great feast midweek, but it is not possible to celebrate it in church, one celebrates it as much as one can at home. The practice of transferring for reasons other than a  festal conflict (which I think only happens on the new calendar), is not at all ideal since it messes with the liturgical rhythm.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,861



« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 01:42:22 PM »

I shouldn't happen ideally, but the typikon was made for man, not man for the typhoon.

I have never seen this myself.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 01:43:09 PM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,970


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2011, 01:46:28 PM »

I shouldn't happen ideally, but the typikon was made for man, not man for the typhoon.

I have never seen this myself.

But..the Eternal Typikon was delivered by an angel to St. Typikos after much prayer and fasting.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 12,924



WWW
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2011, 01:56:24 PM »


At our church, the feasts are always celebrated on their appointed days. 

However, if our parish feast day falls mid-week, while still celebrating Divine Liturgy that day, we will transfer the celebration to the following Sunday.  Therefore, the actual luncheon, program, hierarchical visit usually happens on the Sunday, not on the Thursday.

For Transfiguration, there will be a DL on Friday the 19th, as well as the blessing of fruits, etc.  However, most people work, and cannot attend the services.  Therefore, the following Sunday, there will also be the blessing of fruits, flowers, etc.

In other words, it' s not really "transferred", however, it is extended.




Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
Mickey
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 1,309



« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 02:05:46 PM »

Thank you everyone for the replies.  I have never experienced the transfer of feast days in the Orthodox Church...but I have experienced the extension type scenarios that Liza explained.  I recall during my time in the RCC that everything was transferred to Sunday.  However, I also understand the situation of small Orthodox parishes and missions which may not have many options.

Prayers,
Mickey
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 02:06:07 PM by Mickey » Logged
Punch
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Body of Christ
Posts: 5,307



« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2011, 08:54:39 PM »

It has recently come to my attention that some Antiochian Churches have received the Bishop's blessing to transfer the Feast of the Dormition of the Most Holy Theotokos from Monday, August 15 .....to Sunday August 14.  I did not think it was proper for Orthodox Churches to transfer feasts to Sunday.  Is this something that is done frequently?  It sounds very Roman Catholic to me.  Huh
We frequently do it. We have rented space that isn't always available other than Sunday mornings. Also, we have one priest, three chanters (two actively employed, one -me- retired), no other altar servers. There is a physical limit to what we can do. So it's either transfer the Feast or ignore it (except of course as it is commemorated on a Sunday of the festal season).

We will be the first to agree that it isn't ideal. We look forward to having a place of our own and a bit more help to lead services. In the meantime, what would you do given our situation?

It only takes two people, one of them a priest, to hold a Liturgy.  I know because I have attended many as the "second person", both in the Western Rite and the Byzantine Rite.  I attended these back before the fall of the Evil Empire, and the closeness of two or three people at a Liturgy somehow seemed to give an idea or a connection to those who worshiped in the catacombs and in the woods under persecution.  I wonder if they transferred Feasts?  In any case, the situation is not the "either / or" stated above.  In addition, I have led countless "Reader's Feasts" at my home using the materials provided by the ROCOR, and with the blessing of one of her Priests.  Where there is a will, there is a way.  Where there is no will, there are always excuses.
Logged

Orthodox only because of God and His Russians.
genesisone
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 2,482



« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2011, 09:40:07 PM »

It has recently come to my attention that some Antiochian Churches have received the Bishop's blessing to transfer the Feast of the Dormition of the Most Holy Theotokos from Monday, August 15 .....to Sunday August 14.  I did not think it was proper for Orthodox Churches to transfer feasts to Sunday.  Is this something that is done frequently?  It sounds very Roman Catholic to me.  Huh
We frequently do it. We have rented space that isn't always available other than Sunday mornings. Also, we have one priest, three chanters (two actively employed, one -me- retired), no other altar servers. There is a physical limit to what we can do. So it's either transfer the Feast or ignore it (except of course as it is commemorated on a Sunday of the festal season).

We will be the first to agree that it isn't ideal. We look forward to having a place of our own and a bit more help to lead services. In the meantime, what would you do given our situation?

It only takes two people, one of them a priest, to hold a Liturgy.  I know because I have attended many as the "second person", both in the Western Rite and the Byzantine Rite.  I attended these back before the fall of the Evil Empire, and the closeness of two or three people at a Liturgy somehow seemed to give an idea or a connection to those who worshiped in the catacombs and in the woods under persecution.  I wonder if they transferred Feasts?  In any case, the situation is not the "either / or" stated above.  In addition, I have led countless "Reader's Feasts" at my home using the materials provided by the ROCOR, and with the blessing of one of her Priests.  Where there is a will, there is a way.  Where there is no will, there are always excuses.
As a matter of fact, there have been some occasions where we as a parish have chosen to celebrate a Feast on its own day (other than Sunday) and had attendance of only three or four. You are quite right that there is a closeness of those who are able to join and the joy of the celebration is not diminished.

I understood the OP as referring to meeting together as a parish. Not what one does in one's own home privately. Since you are addressing my comment, I will tell you bluntly that your last sentence communicates a judgement that you are in no position to make.
Logged
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek by desire; Antiochian by necessity
Posts: 5,959



« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2011, 09:45:43 PM »

Yes, transferring feasts (to closest Sunday mostly) is a popular practise.

It's also a very Protestant practice (at least among those Protestants who do observe some sort of Calendar).

God forbid that people come to church on any day but Sunday!
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek by desire; Antiochian by necessity
Posts: 5,959



« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2011, 09:49:07 PM »


At our church, the feasts are always celebrated on their appointed days. 

However, if our parish feast day falls mid-week, while still celebrating Divine Liturgy that day, we will transfer the celebration to the following Sunday.  Therefore, the actual luncheon, program, hierarchical visit usually happens on the Sunday, not on the Thursday.

For Transfiguration, there will be a DL on Friday the 19th, as well as the blessing of fruits, etc.  However, most people work, and cannot attend the services.  Therefore, the following Sunday, there will also be the blessing of fruits, flowers, etc.

In other words, it' s not really "transferred", however, it is extended.


I don't know the "rules" of the Slavic Typikon, but in Greek Churches, most feasts, with some exceptions, are celebrated for at least a week following the actual feast where a great many of the hymns (at least the apolytikia and some of the stichera at Vespers) are repeated until the apodosis (Leave-taking) when the services are essentially repeated in full (wtih some omissions).  Thus, there is no need to transfer the feast to another day since the joyfulness of the hymns is experienced for at least another week.
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,987


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2011, 09:53:58 PM »

It has recently come to my attention that some Antiochian Churches have received the Bishop's blessing to transfer the Feast of the Dormition of the Most Holy Theotokos from Monday, August 15 .....to Sunday August 14.  I did not think it was proper for Orthodox Churches to transfer feasts to Sunday.  Is this something that is done frequently?  It sounds very Roman Catholic to me.  Huh

In the local Antiochian parish, we are not having paraclesis during the Dormition fast.
It seems like we are becoming less Orthodox as people cannot find the time or the money (gas prices) to go to an evening service.
However, if a priest does try to hold a Service in honor of the Theotokos, only about two people show up.

We used to have monthly days of recollection sponsored by the local pan-orthodox Clergy, but those have also ceased.
It is very frustrating. New converts who are full of zeal want to attend more church services and feel at a loss.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 10:00:08 PM by Maria » Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek by desire; Antiochian by necessity
Posts: 5,959



« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2011, 12:09:11 AM »

^Are there no other Orthodox jurisdictions present in your area which do hold church services during this time?
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
genesisone
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 2,482



« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2011, 06:50:05 AM »

Today's Epistle reading is included in this passage from St Paul's Epistle to the Romans (chapter 14):
Quote
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:


      “ As I live, says the LORD,
      Every knee shall bow to Me,
      And every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
(emphasis added)

If bishops allow the practice of transferring a Feast Day for pastoral reasons, then it is permitted.
Logged
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,021



« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2011, 07:00:47 AM »

I've heard of bishops transferring the celebration of feast days, including name days of parishes, to whatever day their schedule permits his visit to the parish.  ("Transferring" is not the term they use, but I can't think of the term I've heard used for this practice.)
Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.103 seconds with 44 queries.