Author Topic: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?  (Read 6316 times)

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Offline wolf

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Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« on: August 10, 2011, 01:59:15 PM »
Sorry for the obscure title but I couldn't really think of one that reflected my question.

I have a bookshelf plus tabletop full of occult/pagan/Hindu books images and things, and I was wondering what the position in Orthodoxy is as to whether they can spiritually harm me on their own. Would just owning or being near these things harm me? Should I chuck them out as soon as possible? Or are they harmless without the intent of the person using them?

Thanks,

Wolf.



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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2011, 02:05:44 PM »
Sorry for the obscure title but I couldn't really think of one that reflected my question.

I have a bookshelf plus tabletop full of occult/pagan/Hindu books images and things, and I was wondering what the position in Orthodoxy is as to whether they can spiritually harm me on their own. Would just owning or being near these things harm me? Should I chuck them out as soon as possible? Or are they harmless without the intent of the person using them?

Thanks,

Wolf.




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Offline wolf

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2011, 02:08:44 PM »
Sorry for the obscure title but I couldn't really think of one that reflected my question.

I have a bookshelf plus tabletop full of occult/pagan/Hindu books images and things, and I was wondering what the position in Orthodoxy is as to whether they can spiritually harm me on their own. Would just owning or being near these things harm me? Should I chuck them out as soon as possible? Or are they harmless without the intent of the person using them?

Thanks,

Wolf.




Why are you hanging on to them?  (note, not accusatory, but a genuine question)

Well, I am not Orthodox yet - I still live in my parents house and am only really an inquirer. I am not holding onto them for any particular reason, but just haven't got the chance to do anything with them yet.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2011, 02:10:20 PM »
I think it'd go by a case by case basis as to whether to keep them, though I don't have much experience with that so maybe stuff happens that I don't know about.  I used to have a book on the Carvaka (ancient Hindu materialists), which was interesting, even if I couldn't remember any names or places or whatever (seriously, does every word have to be like Tattvopaplavasimha and whatnot?  :D )... I don't think it harmed me having it... not any more than the ancient Greek materialists anyway  :police:
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Offline Andrew Crook

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2011, 02:11:36 PM »
I would say Wolf you're going to have to get more specific.  Most books are not really harmful in and of themselves, neither are most images.. even Hindu ones as far as I've noticed.  If you use them as just decoration, that's one thing.  However if you're chanting at them, then that's quite another.. -- no need to "chant" for Orthodox Christians.  At least chanting of mantras anyways..

The only thing that can harm you about a book is if you're not absolutely certain what the Orthodox Church teaches, and thereby you might end up getting very confused and lost.  But other then that, you should be okay..
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Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2011, 02:26:23 PM »
It depends.  Some occult books are 'consecrated' and can cause problems.  Academic books on the various topics generally cause no problems.

The main issue is whether a demonic spitit has been 'attached' to the book.  Remember, there is no such thing as 'bad luck' or 'evil energies' that can be mindlessly attached to some object.  There is only the personhood of evil, the demonic.


Sorry for the obscure title but I couldn't really think of one that reflected my question.

I have a bookshelf plus tabletop full of occult/pagan/Hindu books images and things, and I was wondering what the position in Orthodoxy is as to whether they can spiritually harm me on their own. Would just owning or being near these things harm me? Should I chuck them out as soon as possible? Or are they harmless without the intent of the person using them?

Thanks,

Wolf.



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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2011, 02:48:08 PM »
I have a bookshelf plus tabletop full of occult/pagan/Hindu books images and things, and I was wondering what the position in Orthodoxy is as to whether they can spiritually harm me on their own. Would just owning or being near these things harm me? Should I chuck them out as soon as possible? Or are they harmless without the intent of the person using them?

My best guess (and that's only what it is) is that, depending on what you mean by "occult," things have only the power that we give them. After all, no demon can withstand the power of Christ.
For myself, I prefer not to have these things around, but not because I'm afraid of them. Why bother when I can have icons and tons of Orthodox books? (I just keep buying bookshelves!)
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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 02:48:32 PM »
It depends.  Some occult books are 'consecrated' and can cause problems.  Academic books on the various topics generally cause no problems.

The main issue is whether a demonic spitit has been 'attached' to the book.  Remember, there is no such thing as 'bad luck' or 'evil energies' that can be mindlessly attached to some object.  There is only the personhood of evil, the demonic.


Sorry for the obscure title but I couldn't really think of one that reflected my question.

I have a bookshelf plus tabletop full of occult/pagan/Hindu books images and things, and I was wondering what the position in Orthodoxy is as to whether they can spiritually harm me on their own. Would just owning or being near these things harm me? Should I chuck them out as soon as possible? Or are they harmless without the intent of the person using them?

Thanks,

Wolf.




Do you have a book on this stuff that you would recommend?  I have read "The Soul After Death" by Father Seraphim Rose and have a copy of the Malleus Maleficarum.  I am interested in this sort of thing, but generally avoid reading about it because the interest can be the gateway to obsession with things that are better left unknown.  But nonetheless, I generally find that reading something written by an Orthodox Priest or Monk are probably safer since they are likely to have a better perspective.
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2011, 03:00:44 PM »
I am interested in this sort of thing, but generally avoid reading about it because the interest can be the gateway to obsession with things that are better left unknown.  

Exactly.
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Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2011, 03:09:02 PM »
If the books are scholarly rather than 'how to' guides then it might be worth keeping a few of them for reference. I have a Koran and some LDS books that have come in useful from time to time when trying to work out what someone else believes or has been exposed to.

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2011, 03:48:57 PM »
Sorry for the obscure title but I couldn't really think of one that reflected my question.

I have a bookshelf plus tabletop full of occult/pagan/Hindu books images and things, and I was wondering what the position in Orthodoxy is as to whether they can spiritually harm me on their own. Would just owning or being near these things harm me? Should I chuck them out as soon as possible? Or are they harmless without the intent of the person using them?

Thanks,

Wolf.




I got rid of anything that smacked of occult or heresy long before I was chrismated into Orthodoxy including the Book of Mormon, African deities, and JW tracts and magazines. My Orthodox Priest recommended that I destroy anything that was not Orthodox since I had a nine year old son who was very inquisitive. He said that I could easily visit a library if I should need heterodox books for any research I might need to do. He was correct.

Among the African items was an expensive hardwood shoe horn made in Africa with a household deity on top of it. When I burned it, it was very hard to ignite. Finally, using clamps, I put it under the flame of my gas stove burner. Once it ignited, I quickly ran outside with it. The side door was only 6 feet away from the stove. Then I watched it burn as the eyes, nose, mouth, and ears of this deity shot forth six to 12 inch flames. A friend who was with me said, "Surely, this thing was possessed." Interestingly, only the deity burned; the rest of the shoe horn was not damaged.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 03:50:24 PM by Maria »
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Offline Maria

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2011, 03:52:35 PM »
It depends.  Some occult books are 'consecrated' and can cause problems.  Academic books on the various topics generally cause no problems.

The main issue is whether a demonic spitit has been 'attached' to the book.  Remember, there is no such thing as 'bad luck' or 'evil energies' that can be mindlessly attached to some object.  There is only the personhood of evil, the demonic.



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Offline Xenia1918

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 03:59:13 PM »
I have a situation that is a little similar, only in that I have loads of religious books that are not Orthodox, and I don't know what to do with them...including a complete set of the Babylonian Talmud (Talmud Bavli.)

I think I'm going to just keep the ones I will need for reference, and chuck the rest.
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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2011, 04:19:47 PM »
You could pray over the book.
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Offline wolf

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2011, 04:29:40 PM »
Thanks for all the help and guidance.

I would say Wolf you're going to have to get more specific.  Most books are not really harmful in and of themselves, neither are most images.. even Hindu ones as far as I've noticed.  If you use them as just decoration, that's one thing.  However if you're chanting at them, then that's quite another.. -- no need to "chant" for Orthodox Christians.  At least chanting of mantras anyways..

The only thing that can harm you about a book is if you're not absolutely certain what the Orthodox Church teaches, and thereby you might end up getting very confused and lost.  But other then that, you should be okay..

Most of the books are academic books on Witchcraft and Ancient Religion which may come in handy someday, but I have a copy of the Satanic bible and some other books on practicing witchcraft. Also Tarot cards, rune stones, incense, images of deities and hand copied seals and sigils which have all been consecrated or "blessed" and used at some point.

My Orthodox Priest recommended that I destroy anything that was not Orthodox since I had a nine year old son who was very inquisitive.

This is also something that has been on my mind - in the event that I do get rid of all this stuff I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable selling or giving it away, in case it dragged others into the occult. But book burning seems such an extreme thing to do.

On the topic of religious books though - I have many non-christian religious texts - several Hindu texts, some books of Buddhism, several copies of the Quran. I trust that this kind of thing would not be as damaging?

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2011, 10:58:05 AM »
I have written a tract on the topic of magic.  If you want a copy, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you in PDF format.

There is a pretty good book: http://www.amazon.com/Confronting-Occult-Vassilios-Archim-Bakoyannis/dp/B003UD9FA0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313073745&sr=8-1

You can get it through numerous Orthodox bookmongers.  It is really about the only thing out there.

There are no books to my knowledge which systematically explain the topic.  Fr. Seraphim's books are generally reactions to the issues of his time rather than thorough evaluations of his topics.



Do you have a book on this stuff that you would recommend?  I have read "The Soul After Death" by Father Seraphim Rose and have a copy of the Malleus Maleficarum.  I am interested in this sort of thing, but generally avoid reading about it because the interest can be the gateway to obsession with things that are better left unknown.  But nonetheless, I generally find that reading something written by an Orthodox Priest or Monk are probably safer since they are likely to have a better perspective.
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2011, 11:39:11 AM »

Most of the books are academic books on Witchcraft and Ancient Religion which may come in handy someday, but I have a copy of the Satanic bible and some other books on practicing witchcraft. Also Tarot cards, rune stones, incense, images of deities and hand copied seals and sigils which have all been consecrated or "blessed" and used at some point.


I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Offline IsmiLiora

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2011, 11:48:22 AM »
Academic books -- MAYBE keep them if you feel so inclined. I don't even like studying about the occult, though. Gives me that "spiritually oppressed" feeling. Texts on Judaism and Islam are as far as I can go. (EDIT: Mr. Ismi does have a few of them on the shelves though, including the Satanist Bible, which is a hoot and a half. He just met a lot of people who believed in those things and wanted to read up on it.)

But the other stuff? Burn. Go for it.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 11:49:20 AM by IsmiLiora »
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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2011, 11:49:58 AM »
seriously, does every word have to be like Tattvopaplavasimha and whatnot?  :D

I remember thinking the same while taking a course on World religions. It was pretty interesting task to try to remember all those names and terms while reading for an exam. :P

As of the topic, I would draw the line to whether these items has been used for religious purposes. If not there isn't any acute reason to throw them away.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 12:13:14 PM by Alpo »
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Offline mersch

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2011, 06:38:50 PM »
I had quite a few books of like, some I took to the used book store, some I threw away. 

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2011, 09:03:28 PM »
I would give them to the library.

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2011, 09:20:57 PM »
If I were you, I would get rid of them immediately. I'm not exactly sure of the schematics, but if our priest can bless items, it makes sense that an occult priest can curse them :/ That's the simplest way I can think to explain it.

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2011, 09:26:09 PM »
If I were you, I would get rid of them immediately. I'm not exactly sure of the schematics, but if our priest can bless items, it makes sense that an occult priest can curse them :/ That's the simplest way I can think to explain it.

I think you overestimate the authority and power of corruption.
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Offline MichaelArchangelos

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2011, 11:02:56 PM »
At least get rid of the Satanic Bible and the images of pagan deities, as well as anything that has been "blessed" by a non-Christian priest. It would be better if you could get rid of all the pagain stuff, though.

The best thing to do, in my opinion, would be to throw the things out in the rubbish. Selling them would be tacitly approving of their use by other people, and if they are cursed then you could in fact be harming the people who buy them.


Offline wolf

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2011, 04:20:13 AM »
Thank you for all the replies.

I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Thank you for your prayers.
I wish it were that simple, though. The nearest priest is in the next county and so would be a substantial trip for him to come and do that, and I don't think my parents would be too pleased if a priest came and blessed their house! I will get rid of these things as soon as possible though.

Offline Maria

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2011, 04:54:27 AM »
Thank you for all the replies.

I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Thank you for your prayers.
I wish it were that simple, though. The nearest priest is in the next county and so would be a substantial trip for him to come and do that, and I don't think my parents would be too pleased if a priest came and blessed their house! I will get rid of these things as soon as possible though.


Just getting rid of these things might help, but you might need to call a priest.

Once I was housesitting to help out a business acquaintance. Unbeknown to me, she had dabbled in Tarot Cards.
I was led to these cards after being scared out of my wits by bizarre flashings of light which pointed out their hiding place.
Even after removing and destroying these Tarot Cards, I was awakened a few nights later with the feeling of invisible fingers around my neck that were trying to strangle me. Then I noticed green slanted eyes staring at me. After praying the Jesus Prayer three times, those green eyes vanished, and I was able to turn on the lamp adjacent to my bed.

Needless to say, I called my priest.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 04:56:34 AM by Maria »
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Offline Byron

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2011, 07:00:34 AM »
Thank you for all the replies.

I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Thank you for your prayers.
I wish it were that simple, though. The nearest priest is in the next county and so would be a substantial trip for him to come and do that, and I don't think my parents would be too pleased if a priest came and blessed their house! I will get rid of these things as soon as possible though.


Just getting rid of these things might help, but you might need to call a priest.

Once I was housesitting to help out a business acquaintance. Unbeknown to me, she had dabbled in Tarot Cards.
I was led to these cards after being scared out of my wits by bizarre flashings of light which pointed out their hiding place.
Even after removing and destroying these Tarot Cards, I was awakened a few nights later with the feeling of invisible fingers around my neck that were trying to strangle me. Then I noticed green slanted eyes staring at me. After praying the Jesus Prayer three times, those green eyes vanished, and I was able to turn on the lamp adjacent to my bed.

Needless to say, I called my priest.

You just freaked me out big time. I found a pack of tarot in the house after i thought my mother through them out. I'm chucking them out as soon as i finish here.

One other query for the people on this thread. I picked up a Tangaroa deity (deity of fertility) statue when in the South Pacific purely because i found it kitchy. People in the Cooks no longer believe in the old gods and are regular churchgoers and extremely strong in their Christian (albeit Protestant) faith. Would you consider this statue harmful?

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2011, 07:07:08 AM »
Thank you for all the replies.

I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Thank you for your prayers.
I wish it were that simple, though. The nearest priest is in the next county and so would be a substantial trip for him to come and do that, and I don't think my parents would be too pleased if a priest came and blessed their house! I will get rid of these things as soon as possible though.


Just getting rid of these things might help, but you might need to call a priest.

Once I was housesitting to help out a business acquaintance. Unbeknown to me, she had dabbled in Tarot Cards.
I was led to these cards after being scared out of my wits by bizarre flashings of light which pointed out their hiding place.
Even after removing and destroying these Tarot Cards, I was awakened a few nights later with the feeling of invisible fingers around my neck that were trying to strangle me. Then I noticed green slanted eyes staring at me. After praying the Jesus Prayer three times, those green eyes vanished, and I was able to turn on the lamp adjacent to my bed.

Needless to say, I called my priest.

You just freaked me out big time. I found a pack of tarot in the house after i thought my mother through them out. I'm chucking them out as soon as i finish here.

One other query for the people on this thread. I picked up a Tangaroa deity (deity of fertility) statue when in the South Pacific purely because i found it kitchy. People in the Cooks no longer believe in the old gods and are regular churchgoers and extremely strong in their Christian (albeit Protestant) faith. Would you consider this statue harmful?



Yes

(1) You could scandalize someone.

(2) It could be possessed.

If it is a nice piece, perhaps you could donate it to a museum that handles such things.
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Offline Byron

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2011, 07:28:58 AM »
Thank you for all the replies.

I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Thank you for your prayers.
I wish it were that simple, though. The nearest priest is in the next county and so would be a substantial trip for him to come and do that, and I don't think my parents would be too pleased if a priest came and blessed their house! I will get rid of these things as soon as possible though.


Just getting rid of these things might help, but you might need to call a priest.

Once I was housesitting to help out a business acquaintance. Unbeknown to me, she had dabbled in Tarot Cards.
I was led to these cards after being scared out of my wits by bizarre flashings of light which pointed out their hiding place.
Even after removing and destroying these Tarot Cards, I was awakened a few nights later with the feeling of invisible fingers around my neck that were trying to strangle me. Then I noticed green slanted eyes staring at me. After praying the Jesus Prayer three times, those green eyes vanished, and I was able to turn on the lamp adjacent to my bed.

Needless to say, I called my priest.

You just freaked me out big time. I found a pack of tarot in the house after i thought my mother through them out. I'm chucking them out as soon as i finish here.

One other query for the people on this thread. I picked up a Tangaroa deity (deity of fertility) statue when in the South Pacific purely because i found it kitchy. People in the Cooks no longer believe in the old gods and are regular churchgoers and extremely strong in their Christian (albeit Protestant) faith. Would you consider this statue harmful?



Yes

(1) You could scandalize someone.

(2) It could be possessed.

If it is a nice piece, perhaps you could donate it to a museum that handles such things.

I forgot to add, it's not a vintage piece, just a tourist item made by craftsmen on the island. There are hundreds of these statues for sale at every tourist shop.
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Offline wolf

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2011, 07:43:16 AM »
Just getting rid of these things might help, but you might need to call a priest.

Once I was housesitting to help out a business acquaintance. Unbeknown to me, she had dabbled in Tarot Cards.
I was led to these cards after being scared out of my wits by bizarre flashings of light which pointed out their hiding place.
Even after removing and destroying these Tarot Cards, I was awakened a few nights later with the feeling of invisible fingers around my neck that were trying to strangle me. Then I noticed green slanted eyes staring at me. After praying the Jesus Prayer three times, those green eyes vanished, and I was able to turn on the lamp adjacent to my bed.

Needless to say, I called my priest.

Tarot cards were originally used as an ordinary deck of cards in Europe before the French suited ones we use now were introduced. They weren't used for occult purposes until the 18th century, so I doubt they could be harmful on their own, without something else having been done to them.  In fact, I have been meaning to learn the medieval games associated with Tarot suits for ages now.
Do you think this is the case with you, that they had been consecrated in some way? Nevertheless, after reading this, I am definitely getting rid of the pack that has been used for divinatory purposes.

« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 07:46:01 AM by wolf »

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2011, 09:50:06 AM »

The statute should not be a problem, since:

1) Neither you nor the knick-knack maker ever worshipped in front of it.

2) The religion is no longer practiced, and so it was not consecrated.

The truth is, Orthodox folks have lots of occult things in their homes that nobody freaks out about.  For example, how many Greeks and Arabs have those Evil Eye amulets in their homes?  Even for you 'white folks,' how many 'hex signs' and 'dreamcatchers' are hanging up on your walls and nobody thinks they are in much spiritual trouble?

I recall going to an elderly Arab couple's home and finding an Egyptian fertility talisman hanging on the front door.  I laughed.

I'd say that if you are concerned, get a cross and hang it around the statute.  That should be enough.

Not too long ago, I bought a folk mask on eBay, and to be safe, I brought the package (unopened) to the church, where I read an exorcism prayer and sprinkled it with Holy Water.  No problems.  Of course, I was not sure it had a problem to begin with, but better safe than sorry.  A year or so ago, I had a family dealing with a problem which we narrowed down to an antique clock.  The clock was later sold, and the entity stopped manifesting.


You just freaked me out big time. I found a pack of tarot in the house after i thought my mother through them out. I'm chucking them out as soon as i finish here.

One other query for the people on this thread. I picked up a Tangaroa deity (deity of fertility) statue when in the South Pacific purely because i found it kitchy. People in the Cooks no longer believe in the old gods and are regular churchgoers and extremely strong in their Christian (albeit Protestant) faith. Would you consider this statue harmful?


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Offline Xenia1918

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2011, 01:34:48 PM »

Not too long ago, I bought a folk mask on eBay, and to be safe, I brought the package (unopened) to the church, where I read an exorcism prayer and sprinkled it with Holy Water.  No problems.  Of course, I was not sure it had a problem to begin with, but better safe than sorry.  A year or so ago, I had a family dealing with a problem which we narrowed down to an antique clock.  The clock was later sold, and the entity stopped manifesting.

I wonder if it was my great grandmother's antique clock?   :o

My mom's family had a mantel clock which kept being tossed around between family members' homes....there was a story that our great grandmother (who had been a streghe in Italy) had put a curse on the clock, that if any family member sold it to a non-family member, there would be trouble.....I finally gave it back to my sister after she abandoned the care of our mother...I left it on her back porch.  :D
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 01:36:33 PM by Xenia1918 »
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Offline Sauron

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2011, 03:42:00 PM »
Thank you for all the replies.

I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Thank you for your prayers.
I wish it were that simple, though. The nearest priest is in the next county and so would be a substantial trip for him to come and do that, and I don't think my parents would be too pleased if a priest came and blessed their house! I will get rid of these things as soon as possible though.


Just getting rid of these things might help, but you might need to call a priest.

Once I was housesitting to help out a business acquaintance. Unbeknown to me, she had dabbled in Tarot Cards.
I was led to these cards after being scared out of my wits by bizarre flashings of light which pointed out their hiding place.
Even after removing and destroying these Tarot Cards, I was awakened a few nights later with the feeling of invisible fingers around my neck that were trying to strangle me. Then I noticed green slanted eyes staring at me. After praying the Jesus Prayer three times, those green eyes vanished, and I was able to turn on the lamp adjacent to my bed.

Needless to say, I called my priest.

It also could have been sleep paralysis, which is often known as the "old hag" sitting on one's chest. I once experienced the "old hag", complete with hearing eerie screaming. At the time, I knew what sleep paralysis was, so I did not attribute any supernatural nature to it. Despite that, it was still a very scary experience.

Offline wolf

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2011, 04:27:01 PM »
It also could have been sleep paralysis, which is often known as the "old hag" sitting on one's chest. I once experienced the "old hag", complete with hearing eerie screaming. At the time, I knew what sleep paralysis was, so I did not attribute any supernatural nature to it. Despite that, it was still a very scary experience.

Sleep paralysis runs in my family - both my mum and I get it. Although I'm sure experiences differ, I knew that it wasn't anything supernatural at the time despite not knowing what it was. My mum on the other hand, was convinced it was a ghost  ;D

Offline Thomas

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2011, 04:39:06 PM »
My personal advice is to get rid of them completely. You will still not be able to rid yourself of the images but at least they will not be in your home or room enticing you.

After getting rid of them ask thepriest to come and bless your room or house with holy water to consecrate your home/room for worship of the one true god.

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Offline Sauron

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2011, 04:18:05 PM »
It also could have been sleep paralysis, which is often known as the "old hag" sitting on one's chest. I once experienced the "old hag", complete with hearing eerie screaming. At the time, I knew what sleep paralysis was, so I did not attribute any supernatural nature to it. Despite that, it was still a very scary experience.

Sleep paralysis runs in my family - both my mum and I get it. Although I'm sure experiences differ, I knew that it wasn't anything supernatural at the time despite not knowing what it was. My mum on the other hand, was convinced it was a ghost  ;D

Finally, some rationality. I must say, I get concerned sometimes by the posters of this forum with their talk of haunted clocks and demon-protected decks of cards.  :laugh:

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2011, 04:42:52 PM »
Thank you for all the replies.

I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Thank you for your prayers.
I wish it were that simple, though. The nearest priest is in the next county and so would be a substantial trip for him to come and do that, and I don't think my parents would be too pleased if a priest came and blessed their house! I will get rid of these things as soon as possible though.


Just getting rid of these things might help, but you might need to call a priest.

Once I was housesitting to help out a business acquaintance. Unbeknown to me, she had dabbled in Tarot Cards.
I was led to these cards after being scared out of my wits by bizarre flashings of light which pointed out their hiding place.
Even after removing and destroying these Tarot Cards, I was awakened a few nights later with the feeling of invisible fingers around my neck that were trying to strangle me. Then I noticed green slanted eyes staring at me. After praying the Jesus Prayer three times, those green eyes vanished, and I was able to turn on the lamp adjacent to my bed.

Needless to say, I called my priest.

It also could have been sleep paralysis, which is often known as the "old hag" sitting on one's chest. I once experienced the "old hag", complete with hearing eerie screaming. At the time, I knew what sleep paralysis was, so I did not attribute any supernatural nature to it. Despite that, it was still a very scary experience.

Well, to be fair-that doesn't explain the flashing lights she saw.

Offline Sauron

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2011, 05:05:27 PM »
Thank you for all the replies.

I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Thank you for your prayers.
I wish it were that simple, though. The nearest priest is in the next county and so would be a substantial trip for him to come and do that, and I don't think my parents would be too pleased if a priest came and blessed their house! I will get rid of these things as soon as possible though.


Just getting rid of these things might help, but you might need to call a priest.

Once I was housesitting to help out a business acquaintance. Unbeknown to me, she had dabbled in Tarot Cards.
I was led to these cards after being scared out of my wits by bizarre flashings of light which pointed out their hiding place.
Even after removing and destroying these Tarot Cards, I was awakened a few nights later with the feeling of invisible fingers around my neck that were trying to strangle me. Then I noticed green slanted eyes staring at me. After praying the Jesus Prayer three times, those green eyes vanished, and I was able to turn on the lamp adjacent to my bed.

Needless to say, I called my priest.

It also could have been sleep paralysis, which is often known as the "old hag" sitting on one's chest. I once experienced the "old hag", complete with hearing eerie screaming. At the time, I knew what sleep paralysis was, so I did not attribute any supernatural nature to it. Despite that, it was still a very scary experience.

Well, to be fair-that doesn't explain the flashing lights she saw.

Flashing lights are a commonly reported visual hallucination when sleep paralysis occurs.

Offline Maria

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2011, 05:24:07 PM »
Thank you for all the replies.

I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Thank you for your prayers.
I wish it were that simple, though. The nearest priest is in the next county and so would be a substantial trip for him to come and do that, and I don't think my parents would be too pleased if a priest came and blessed their house! I will get rid of these things as soon as possible though.


Just getting rid of these things might help, but you might need to call a priest.

Once I was housesitting to help out a business acquaintance. Unbeknown to me, she had dabbled in Tarot Cards.
I was led to these cards after being scared out of my wits by bizarre flashings of light which pointed out their hiding place.
Even after removing and destroying these Tarot Cards, I was awakened a few nights later with the feeling of invisible fingers around my neck that were trying to strangle me. Then I noticed green slanted eyes staring at me. After praying the Jesus Prayer three times, those green eyes vanished, and I was able to turn on the lamp adjacent to my bed.

Needless to say, I called my priest.

It also could have been sleep paralysis, which is often known as the "old hag" sitting on one's chest. I once experienced the "old hag", complete with hearing eerie screaming. At the time, I knew what sleep paralysis was, so I did not attribute any supernatural nature to it. Despite that, it was still a very scary experience.

Well, to be fair-that doesn't explain the flashing lights she saw.

I talked with my priest. The very fact that the flashing spiraling cards led me to their hiding place was a sign of their origin.
The devil does appear as an Angel of Light.

Incidentally, these Tarot Cards were hidden behind the "T'" book of the Britannica Encyclopedias for what that is worth.
When our Orthodox Priest prayed the prayer of exorcism over me and my family due to all the weird events that were happening,
the problems immediately ceased. My acquaintance who owned the house said that she did not recall placing those cards behind that Britannica Encyclopedia. In fact, she was not even aware that they were in her house. As a newly baptized Christian, she was rather shocked and told me to get rid of them immediately.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 05:38:18 PM by Maria »
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Offline Maria

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2011, 05:37:07 PM »
Thank you for all the replies.

I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Thank you for your prayers.
I wish it were that simple, though. The nearest priest is in the next county and so would be a substantial trip for him to come and do that, and I don't think my parents would be too pleased if a priest came and blessed their house! I will get rid of these things as soon as possible though.


Just getting rid of these things might help, but you might need to call a priest.

Once I was housesitting to help out a business acquaintance. Unbeknown to me, she had dabbled in Tarot Cards.
I was led to these cards after being scared out of my wits by bizarre flashings of light which pointed out their hiding place.
Even after removing and destroying these Tarot Cards, I was awakened a few nights later with the feeling of invisible fingers around my neck that were trying to strangle me. Then I noticed green slanted eyes staring at me. After praying the Jesus Prayer three times, those green eyes vanished, and I was able to turn on the lamp adjacent to my bed.

Needless to say, I called my priest.

It also could have been sleep paralysis, which is often known as the "old hag" sitting on one's chest. I once experienced the "old hag", complete with hearing eerie screaming. At the time, I knew what sleep paralysis was, so I did not attribute any supernatural nature to it. Despite that, it was still a very scary experience.

Well, to be fair-that doesn't explain the flashing lights she saw.

Flashing lights are a commonly reported visual hallucination when sleep paralysis occurs.


Yes. What degrees do you have to be diagnosing people without seeing them?
That could be dangerous and illegal.

Flashing lights can also be a sign of a retinal tear or a vitreous humor detachment.
I did experienced those visual disturbances recently while attending church, and then experienced irritating floaters.
Tests done at my ophthalmologist show that both eyes were affected. There is no cure for a vitreous humor detachment per my doctor. I must live with it.

And my visual problem mentioned above occurred about 20 years after the encounter with the Tarot Cards. No connection.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 05:43:02 PM by Maria »
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Offline Sauron

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2011, 05:42:59 PM »
Thank you for all the replies.

I got scared just reading the list and was compelled to chant the troparion of the Cross (see below). Lord have mercy! Please, please get an Orthodox priest to your house, ask him to bless it for the first time (this involves exorcism) and GET RID OF THESE EVIL THINGS!!!

"O Lord, save Thy people and bless Thy inheritance, granting victory to Orthodox Christians over their adversaries. And, by the power of Thy Cross, preserve Thy estate." (I mentally substituted "...over the evil one.)

Thank you for your prayers.
I wish it were that simple, though. The nearest priest is in the next county and so would be a substantial trip for him to come and do that, and I don't think my parents would be too pleased if a priest came and blessed their house! I will get rid of these things as soon as possible though.


Just getting rid of these things might help, but you might need to call a priest.

Once I was housesitting to help out a business acquaintance. Unbeknown to me, she had dabbled in Tarot Cards.
I was led to these cards after being scared out of my wits by bizarre flashings of light which pointed out their hiding place.
Even after removing and destroying these Tarot Cards, I was awakened a few nights later with the feeling of invisible fingers around my neck that were trying to strangle me. Then I noticed green slanted eyes staring at me. After praying the Jesus Prayer three times, those green eyes vanished, and I was able to turn on the lamp adjacent to my bed.

Needless to say, I called my priest.

It also could have been sleep paralysis, which is often known as the "old hag" sitting on one's chest. I once experienced the "old hag", complete with hearing eerie screaming. At the time, I knew what sleep paralysis was, so I did not attribute any supernatural nature to it. Despite that, it was still a very scary experience.

Well, to be fair-that doesn't explain the flashing lights she saw.

Flashing lights are a commonly reported visual hallucination when sleep paralysis occurs.


Yes. What degrees do you have to be diagnosing people without seeing them?
That could be dangerous and illegal.

Flashing lights can also be a sign of a retinal tear or a vitreous humor detachment.
I did experienced those visual disturbances recently while attending church, and then experienced irritating floaters.
Tests done at my ophthalmologist show that both of eyes were affected. There is no cure for a vitreous humor detachment per my doctor. I must live with it.


Sleep paralysis is not a diagnosis. While I have no medical degree, I do have a law license, so I will keep my own counsel as to what may be illegal.

Here we have a person who say flashing lights, which are both experienced with sleep paralysis and with VHDs. Yet for some reason, these much more likely physical reasons are waved away for an exceedingly unlikely demonic one. If something goes missing, do you blame it on forgetfulness or an imp?

Offline Maria

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2011, 05:45:50 PM »
Again read my above posts.

The two events of flashing tarot cards and a flashing visual disturbance associated with VHD are two separate events separated by at least 20 years. One was confirmed by an Orthodox Priest as demonic as they involved tarot cards and many other weird events, which will NOT be detailed here, and the other (20 years later) was confirmed by my medical doctor as VHD.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 05:48:25 PM by Maria »
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Offline Sauron

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2011, 05:54:50 PM »
Again read my above posts.

The two events of flashing tarot cards and a flashing visual disturbance associated with VHD are two separate events separated by at least 20 years. One was confirmed by an Orthodox Priest as demonic as they involved tarot cards and many other weird events, which will NOT be detailed here, and the other (20 years later) was confirmed by my medical doctor as VHD.

How did he eliminate sleep paralysis as a possible cause?

You have to give it to the RCs. When they get called in to do an exorcism, they eliminate all natural and medical causes before determining that the supernatural is involved. Is this not also the case for Eastern Orthodox?\

Offline Maria

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2011, 05:59:48 PM »
Again read my above posts.

The two events of flashing tarot cards and a flashing visual disturbance associated with VHD are two separate events separated by at least 20 years. One was confirmed by an Orthodox Priest as demonic as they involved tarot cards and many other weird events, which will NOT be detailed here, and the other (20 years later) was confirmed by my medical doctor as VHD.

How did he eliminate sleep paralysis as a possible cause?

You have to give it to the RCs. When they get called in to do an exorcism, they eliminate all natural and medical causes before determining that the supernatural is involved. Is this not also the case for Eastern Orthodox?\


He talked with the Bishop. His Grace was concerned since my son had a freezing breeze following him in the house in 100 degree weather.
Again, you are probably not interested in all the details. It should be sufficient that the Orthodox Bishop determined that an exorcism would be beneficial. And it was.

Asking a child to suffer needlessly with nightmares and experiencing chills (without running a fever or having any medical problems) while waiting for needless medical testing would be wrong.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 06:06:17 PM by Maria »
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Offline Sauron

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Re: Are occult items harmless without the intent to use them?
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2011, 06:03:49 PM »
Again read my above posts.

The two events of flashing tarot cards and a flashing visual disturbance associated with VHD are two separate events separated by at least 20 years. One was confirmed by an Orthodox Priest as demonic as they involved tarot cards and many other weird events, which will NOT be detailed here, and the other (20 years later) was confirmed by my medical doctor as VHD.

How did he eliminate sleep paralysis as a possible cause?

You have to give it to the RCs. When they get called in to do an exorcism, they eliminate all natural and medical causes before determining that the supernatural is involved. Is this not also the case for Eastern Orthodox?\


He talked with the Bishop. His Grace was concerned since my son had a freezing breeze following him in the house in 100 degree weather.
Again, you are probably not interested in all the details. It should be sufficient that the Orthodox Bishop determined that an exorcism would be beneficial. And it was.

That wasn't an answer to my question of how sleep paralysis was eliminated as what happened when you were housesitting.

Children never get the chills? I find it remarkable that the bishop could make a determination without even visiting the site of the supposed occurrence.