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Author Topic: Length of Divine Liturgy??  (Read 1350 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: August 07, 2011, 09:02:33 PM »

This is going to sound like a stupid, selfish question, but I was wondering how long the DL last at different churches.  Is it the same all over the world?  Ive heard that it can last anywhere from an hour and a half all the way up to three hours.  As someone who grew up protestant, it sounds crazy to sit in church for a three hour service! Haha.  This wouldnt deter me from converting, but if I go to a Greek Orthodox Church in the Atlanta area, should I expect to be there for 3 hours?  Or have they found ways to shorten it since a lot of people dont have time to stay anywhere for three hours in our busy American culture?  And i certainly dont mean for this to sound selfish or disrespectful.  Im just curious so I can know what to expect!

And I know, Im crazy for not having been to a Orthodox service.  I have spent many months studying the faith, but since I do contract music/worship leading at different local churches, this has kept me from going as I am tied down at other places.  I am waiting for the parish near me to have a DL during the week which they sometimes do.
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2011, 09:05:24 PM »

At my local Antiochian parish I'd guess 1:15-1:25 on average, depending on how many commune, and if anything needs to be done at the end (which can vary week to week).
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2011, 09:08:02 PM »

What Protestant church did you attend? For me, the services were anywhere between an hour and 30 minutes to 3 and a half hours. I've had to have Mr. Ismi or a friend pinch me constantly while the pastors would preach sermons that went for more than an hour.


At my church, DL is about 2 hours. The way that the Greeks handle this is that they come in right before Communion and leave before the sermon. No joke. (Obviously, that's not everybody, but quite a few people do this).

I didn't even realize that it was that long until I thought about it. My mind wanders and my feet hurt, but it is always, always worth it, I promise.
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 09:09:47 PM »

Sit?

About 2 hours at my parish.

EDIT: But it seemed like an eternity for the first few months. I guess I really did get a taste of the kingdom to come, when I first went.
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 09:12:28 PM »

At my church, DL is about 2 hours. The way that the Greeks handle this is that they come in right before Communion and leave before the sermon. No joke. (Obviously, that's not everybody, but quite a few people do this).
Yep my parish too. Too bad for them my priest delivers fantastic homilies.
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2011, 09:15:12 PM »

Same with mine. I really love it, but the sermon is the icing on top of the cake and I always look forward to it! So while I can't wait for DL to end sometimes (like today, I can't even tell you where my mind was the entire time), I'm usually looking forward to hearing what he is going to say.
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2011, 09:15:56 PM »

At my local Antiochian parish I'd guess 1:15-1:25 on average, depending on how many commune, and if anything needs to be done at the end (which can vary week to week).
That's pretty much ours, too. We were at the top end of that today. Our limited numbers and rented space usually deter us from celebrating the Feasts on the day itself when not a Sunday, so we had the traditional blessing of the grapes for Transfiguration this morning. Really, it was mostly peaches. That's what's in season now (great crop this year, BTW); grapes won't be around for another couple of weeks.
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2011, 09:16:17 PM »

It is sometimes that way at my church as well.  Smiley Our priest has also been taking a longer time each week to give the homily. I think that's been good.
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2011, 09:18:12 PM »

At my church, DL is about 2 hours. The way that the Greeks handle this is that they come in right before Communion and leave before the sermon. No joke. (Obviously, that's not everybody, but quite a few people do this).

Jigga what?

In our parish the homily is delivered after the Gospel Reading before the end of the Liturgy of Word and thus before the Liturgy of the Gifts.

If you ain't there by the Gospel reading, unless you have tons of kids and the like, you might not get to take part in the Eucharist.

Am I misunderstanding the above?

Folks are communed before the homily?
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2011, 09:20:27 PM »

At my church, DL is about 2 hours. The way that the Greeks handle this is that they come in right before Communion and leave before the sermon. No joke. (Obviously, that's not everybody, but quite a few people do this).

Jigga what?

In our parish the homily is delivered after the Gospel Reading before the end of the Liturgy of Word and thus before the Liturgy of the Gifts.

If you ain't there by the Gospel reading, unless you have tons of kids and the like, you might not get to take part in the Eucharist.

Am I misunderstanding the above?

Folks are communed before the homily?


We do have a more "informal" post DL presentation / discussion / what have you before the Veneration of the Cross, but the homily / sermon is after the Gospel Reading.
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2011, 09:22:52 PM »

 Huh I actually have thought about this before, but rather passively. Check your PMs in a moment.

And if you say "jigga what" one more time...
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2011, 09:37:34 PM »

I had always thought the homily should go right after the Gospel.  At least thats what I have become familiar with in the Anglican liturgies I have been attending for a while now.
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2011, 09:44:59 PM »

At the parish in Prescott, which I won't be attending except rarely, once I leave for Tempe, the sermon comes right after the Gospel reading, well before Communion.  Anyways, to answer the original question, liturgy usually runs about two hours (sometimes an hour and forty-five minutes or so, sometimes fifteen or so after two hours).
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2011, 09:54:51 PM »

This is going to sound like a stupid, selfish question, but I was wondering how long the DL last at different churches.  Is it the same all over the world?  Ive heard that it can last anywhere from an hour and a half all the way up to three hours.  As someone who grew up protestant, it sounds crazy to sit in church for a three hour service! Haha.  This wouldnt deter me from converting, but if I go to a Greek Orthodox Church in the Atlanta area, should I expect to be there for 3 hours?  Or have they found ways to shorten it since a lot of people dont have time to stay anywhere for three hours in our busy American culture?  And i certainly dont mean for this to sound selfish or disrespectful.  Im just curious so I can know what to expect!

And I know, Im crazy for not having been to a Orthodox service.  I have spent many months studying the faith, but since I do contract music/worship leading at different local churches, this has kept me from going as I am tied down at other places.  I am waiting for the parish near me to have a DL during the week which they sometimes do.


"Sit" for three hours? hehe.....actually, its "Stand" for three hours. Orthodox churches do not have pews usually. Standing is traditional in Orthodoxy.


And when I was an Orthodox Jew, our services ran from 9 AM to 1 PM....of course, we got to sit for much of that....
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2011, 09:55:34 PM »

Sit?

About 2 hours at my parish.

EDIT: But it seemed like an eternity for the first few months. I guess I really did get a taste of the kingdom to come, when I first went.

1:30 to 1:45 in my parish, depending on the particular Sunday and how many to commune.

Sit? You stand, aside from the sermon and the announcements at the end of Liturgy. In some OCA and Antiochian parishes, there is a habit of sitting down for some of the litanies, or even the antiphons. I saw this last at an OCA parish I visited in another state recently. Big head scratcher. Folks sat down for the litany after the first antiphon and then didn't stand up until the Little Entrance! In my parish, people sit down for the litanies in between the sermon and the Creed. I'm choir, so I'm always standing anyway.

You get used to the length of services. That's why my priest recommends Vespers for the first service people come to.

Pascha is THREE hours in my parish. Heh heh. Wink
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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2011, 10:04:39 PM »

At my church, DL is about 2 hours. The way that the Greeks handle this is that they come in right before Communion and leave before the sermon. No joke. (Obviously, that's not everybody, but quite a few people do this).

Jigga what?

In our parish the homily is delivered after the Gospel Reading before the end of the Liturgy of Word and thus before the Liturgy of the Gifts.

If you ain't there by the Gospel reading, unless you have tons of kids and the like, you might not get to take part in the Eucharist.

Am I misunderstanding the above?

Folks are communed before the homily?


Some priests do the homily after the Liturgy.



My parish's Sunday Liturgies are roughly 1.5 hours, give or take. Weekday Liturgies are normally about an hour, as there is a much shorter communion line and no homily. During Lent, as there are some more and longer prayers, the Liturgy may be between 1.5 and 2 hours. If you attend Liturgy at various monasteries, it will likely last closer to an hour, as most monasteries don't have a homily (since it's not a "parish", per se).
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« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2011, 10:06:36 PM »

Thanks everyone! And yes, I was aware that you actually stand for most of it.  Shouldnt have put "sit" in the original post!
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« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2011, 10:16:02 PM »

What Protestant church did you attend? For me, the services were anywhere between an hour and 30 minutes to 3 and a half hours. I've had to have Mr. Ismi or a friend pinch me constantly while the pastors would preach sermons that went for more than an hour.


At my church, DL is about 2 hours. The way that the Greeks handle this is that they come in right before Communion and leave before the sermon. No joke. (Obviously, that's not everybody, but quite a few people do this).


My priest does not commune folks who come after the Gospel reading.I have a feeling that the priest is trying to accommodate the (very lax) habits of his congregation by changing the order of the services so that the sermon comes at the end.

In any case, Sunday services start at 0930 with Pre-Communion Prayers and Hours, and continue with the Divine Liturgy until roughly noon. We do have Vespers on Wednesday and Saturday; usually atended by 25 to 30 folks.
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« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2011, 10:21:02 PM »

Here, DL itself averages an hour and 20 minutes.  Add another 5 to 10 minutes if we have a memorial service.  When we have Orthros, that is an extra hour before DL.
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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2011, 07:14:45 AM »

At my church, DL is about 2 hours. The way that the Greeks handle this is that they come in right before Communion and leave before the sermon. No joke. (Obviously, that's not everybody, but quite a few people do this).

Jigga what?

In our parish the homily is delivered after the Gospel Reading before the end of the Liturgy of Word and thus before the Liturgy of the Gifts.

If you ain't there by the Gospel reading, unless you have tons of kids and the like, you might not get to take part in the Eucharist.

Am I misunderstanding the above?

Folks are communed before the homily?


Some priests do the homily after the Liturgy.



My parish's Sunday Liturgies are roughly 1.5 hours, give or take. Weekday Liturgies are normally about an hour, as there is a much shorter communion line and no homily. During Lent, as there are some more and longer prayers, the Liturgy may be between 1.5 and 2 hours. If you attend Liturgy at various monasteries, it will likely last closer to an hour, as most monasteries don't have a homily (since it's not a "parish", per se).

About the same for us, maybe average 1.75 on most Sundays.
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« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2011, 07:31:11 AM »

Normal Sunday morning in my (Greek) church:

Midnight office 8:30-9
Matins: 9-10:30
Liturgy: 10:30-12:30
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« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2011, 08:47:08 AM »

I've attended Liturgies from 0:55 to 2:30 but the most of the time they last 1:20 - 1:40.
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« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2011, 09:58:28 AM »

Timon,
Quote
This is going to sound like a stupid, selfish question, but I was wondering how long the DL last at different churches.  Is it the same all over the world?  Ive heard that it can last anywhere from an hour and a half all the way up to three hours.  As someone who grew up protestant, it sounds crazy to sit in church for a three hour service! Haha.  This wouldnt deter me from converting, but if I go to a Greek Orthodox Church in the Atlanta area, should I expect to be there for 3 hours?  Or have they found ways to shorten it since a lot of people dont have time to stay anywhere for three hours in our busy American culture?  And i certainly dont mean for this to sound selfish or disrespectful.  Im just curious so I can know what to expect!

Not to worry, most Sunday DL last only an hour and a half to two hours, this is not as long as movies, concerts, or sporting events that many folks in our busy American culture find time to attend.  Also, if you are worshipping God, you will lose yourself to all earthly cares, and the time will fly.  I think it is very important to attend the service that is celebrated in a language that you understand, or it will seem much longer than it is.  Also read along in a service book, many parishes have them for the asking at that stand where they sell candles.

 Please don’t be alarmed by the length.  I do not know much about the churches of the Greek tradition, but of the Slavic tradition, it has historically been that folks don’t come to services if they are too short.   You can see this in the way that separate short services like hours, matins, or vespers, are mostly not served by themselves anymore, but grouped together, to form longer services that folks will attend.
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« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2011, 10:12:40 AM »

Most normal liturgies I've been to have ranged from 1:10 to 1:45, and I'd peg the average at 1:20. If the bishop is visiting or if it's a major feast day, it will be longer because other parts are added to the service for these special occasions.

This length has never bothered me, as the services at the Protestant church I was raised in almost always went longer than 1:30. The biggest adjustment was all the standing, but your legs adjust and get used to it after a few weeks/months.
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« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2011, 10:33:28 AM »

Timon,

This is another way to answer your question about the length of the Divine Liturgy, and why it does not bother most people that it is as long as it is. 

Many Orthodox Christians believe that this life is just preparation for something else that will come after we depart it.  We believe that it will be an everlasting life in the Kingdom of Heaven.  And we see the Kingdom of Heaven as being life with God and all others that are living this everlasting life with God our Father. 

To help us in this preparation, the Son of God himself became one of us, and one of the things He did for us was to start His Church here on Earth.  This Church can give us a taste of the Kingdom of Heaven if we let it. Many tell us the Divine Liturgy is very much like the Kingdom of Heaven. That hour and a half to two and a half hours is what eternity will be like after we depart.

So in our efforts, to become closer to God, we can use the experience of the Divine Liturgy, to help us experience Kingdom of Heaven here and now.

(I’m not a theologian, this is just my thoughts, I may be wrong)
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« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2011, 11:57:34 AM »

This is going to sound like a stupid, selfish question, but I was wondering how long the DL last at different churches.  Is it the same all over the world?  Ive heard that it can last anywhere from an hour and a half all the way up to three hours.  As someone who grew up protestant, it sounds crazy to sit in church for a three hour service! Haha.  This wouldnt deter me from converting, but if I go to a Greek Orthodox Church in the Atlanta area, should I expect to be there for 3 hours?  Or have they found ways to shorten it since a lot of people dont have time to stay anywhere for three hours in our busy American culture?  And i certainly dont mean for this to sound selfish or disrespectful.  Im just curious so I can know what to expect!

And I know, Im crazy for not having been to a Orthodox service.  I have spent many months studying the faith, but since I do contract music/worship leading at different local churches, this has kept me from going as I am tied down at other places.  I am waiting for the parish near me to have a DL during the week which they sometimes do.

Come to our parish. We're in Atlanta, and we don't sit for three hours. We stand! Also we have liturgy every day during the week.

www.saintjohnwonderworker.org
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« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2011, 12:07:30 PM »

Quote

Come to our parish. We're in Atlanta, and we don't sit for three hours. We stand! Also we have liturgy every day during the week.

www.saintjohnwonderworker.org

I have heard of that. In fact, I almost visited your bookstore one time when I was looking for some Icons as it was recommended to me by a friend. I will definitely check it out, likely within the next couple days! Im glad to hear you have a liturgy every day as Sundays are a problem for me, at least for right now.

I moved to Marietta from Atlanta a couple months ago, so I was looking at visiting Holy Transfiguration Greek  Orthodox Church.  Are you familiar with them at all?
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« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2011, 12:21:06 PM »

Spiritual life, prayer, care for the soul, worship of God is a 24/7 thing. It cannot be confined merely to Sunday mornings. Would you rather spend all your time in heaven, or just a couple hours a week?
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« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2011, 12:24:49 PM »

Quote

Come to our parish. We're in Atlanta, and we don't sit for three hours. We stand! Also we have liturgy every day during the week.

www.saintjohnwonderworker.org

I have heard of that. In fact, I almost visited your bookstore one time when I was looking for some Icons as it was recommended to me by a friend. I will definitely check it out, likely within the next couple days! Im glad to hear you have a liturgy every day as Sundays are a problem for me, at least for right now.

I moved to Marietta from Atlanta a couple months ago, so I was looking at visiting Holy Transfiguration Greek  Orthodox Church.  Are you familiar with them at all?

I have several good friends who are members of Holy Transfiguration. Fr. Panayiotis is a wonderful priest and a dear friend of our priest, Fr. Jacob.
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