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Offline lost

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Eucharist questions
« on: August 06, 2011, 04:29:52 PM »
Which was the nature of the Euharist in the time of the Apostles?Was it sacramental?I heard that it was just a meal shared by christians.

Is the Holy Eucharist , Christ's literal flesh and blood?How?Isn`t that cannibalism?Isn`t against the bible to eat blood?

Was the Last Supper , the Jewish Passover?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 04:02:08 PM by Michał Kalina »

Offline Shiny

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2011, 04:32:12 PM »
John 6:53
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2011, 04:35:14 PM »
John 6:53

Protestants argue that it was just a symbol.Anyway how does Jesus gaving us his flesh and blood is in the same line with the bible... In the Law it says you shall not eat blood that is an abomination.

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2011, 04:36:02 PM »
and isn`t it moraly wrong to do cannibalism even figuratively?

Offline JLatimer

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2011, 04:45:15 PM »
Which was the nature of the Euharist in the time of the Apostles?Was it sacramental?I heard that it was just a meal shared by christians.

1 Corinthians 10:16 (KJV)
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

Quote
Is the Holy Eucharist , Christ's literal flesh and blood?

John 6:55 (KJV)
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Quote
How?Isn`t that cannibalism?Isn`t against the bible to eat blood?

John 6:62 (KJV)
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Quote
Was the Last Supper , the Jewish Passover?

Couldn't have been, according to the Holy Apostle John, eyewitness to the Crucifixion:

John 19:13-16 (KJV)
When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. [14] And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! [15] But they cried out, Away with him , away with him , crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. [16] Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.

The lambs hadn't even been sacrificed yet when Jesus and his disciples ate the Last Supper.
1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2011, 04:46:38 PM »
In the Law it says you shall not eat blood that is an abomination.
The Eucharist is a bloodless sacrifice. It says so in the Divine Liturgy.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 04:47:06 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline JLatimer

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2011, 04:47:57 PM »
John 6:53

Protestants argue that it was just a symbol.Anyway how does Jesus gaving us his flesh and blood is in the same line with the bible... In the Law it says you shall not eat blood that is an abomination.

2 Corinthians 3:6b (KJV)
for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2011, 04:50:17 PM »
In the Law it says you shall not eat blood that is an abomination.
The Eucharist is a bloodless sacrifice. It says so in the Divine Liturgy.

but but but Christ said that it is his blood, so technically, directly or indirectly we are eating blood.. what does bloodless sacrifice mean?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 04:50:46 PM by lost »

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2011, 04:52:34 PM »
Which was the nature of the Euharist in the time of the Apostles?Was it sacramental?I heard that it was just a meal shared by christians.

1 Corinthians 10:16 (KJV)
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

Quote
Is the Holy Eucharist , Christ's literal flesh and blood?

John 6:55 (KJV)
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Quote
How?Isn`t that cannibalism?Isn`t against the bible to eat blood?

John 6:62 (KJV)
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Quote
Was the Last Supper , the Jewish Passover?

Couldn't have been, according to the Holy Apostle John, eyewitness to the Crucifixion:

John 19:13-16 (KJV)
When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. [14] And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! [15] But they cried out, Away with him , away with him , crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. [16] Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.

The lambs hadn't even been sacrificed yet when Jesus and his disciples ate the Last Supper.

So what was the Passover that Jesus wanted to eat with His disciples?

Offline Shiny

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2011, 05:05:39 PM »
Doesn't the Didache discuss the Eucharist?
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 05:07:15 PM »
In the Law it says you shall not eat blood that is an abomination.
The Eucharist is a bloodless sacrifice. It says so in the Divine Liturgy.

but but but Christ said that it is his blood, so technically, directly or indirectly we are eating blood.. what does bloodless sacrifice mean?
It means that the sacrifice is made without the shedding of blood because we are participating in Christ's once-for-all sacrifice.

Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline JLatimer

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2011, 05:08:40 PM »
Which was the nature of the Euharist in the time of the Apostles?Was it sacramental?I heard that it was just a meal shared by christians.

1 Corinthians 10:16 (KJV)
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

Quote
Is the Holy Eucharist , Christ's literal flesh and blood?

John 6:55 (KJV)
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Quote
How?Isn`t that cannibalism?Isn`t against the bible to eat blood?

John 6:62 (KJV)
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Quote
Was the Last Supper , the Jewish Passover?

Couldn't have been, according to the Holy Apostle John, eyewitness to the Crucifixion:

John 19:13-16 (KJV)
When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. [14] And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! [15] But they cried out, Away with him , away with him , crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. [16] Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.

The lambs hadn't even been sacrificed yet when Jesus and his disciples ate the Last Supper.

So what was the Passover that Jesus wanted to eat with His disciples?

Just because it wasn't a Passover Seder doesn't mean it wasn't a Passover.
1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 05:09:44 PM »
Which was the nature of the Euharist in the time of the Apostles?Was it sacramental?I heard that it was just a meal shared by christians.

1 Corinthians 10:16 (KJV)
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

Quote
Is the Holy Eucharist , Christ's literal flesh and blood?

John 6:55 (KJV)
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Quote
How?Isn`t that cannibalism?Isn`t against the bible to eat blood?

John 6:62 (KJV)
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Quote
Was the Last Supper , the Jewish Passover?

Couldn't have been, according to the Holy Apostle John, eyewitness to the Crucifixion:

John 19:13-16 (KJV)
When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. [14] And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! [15] But they cried out, Away with him , away with him , crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. [16] Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.

The lambs hadn't even been sacrificed yet when Jesus and his disciples ate the Last Supper.

So what was the Passover that Jesus wanted to eat with His disciples?

Just because it wasn't a Passover Seder doesn't mean it wasn't a Passover.

What Passover was it than?What did it symbolize.. BTW i can reason with it not being a Passover Seder.

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 05:19:16 PM »
Consistent with the perfection of Orthodox theology, the "change" that occurs at the consecretion during the Divine Liturgy, is referred to theologically, in the Greek language, as "metasiosis," (exact word may be a little off), meaning, a "change of 'essence."  "Transubstantiation" is a Western term.
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Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2011, 05:29:03 PM »
Doesn't the Didache discuss the Eucharist?

Didache was most probably invented..

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2011, 05:31:24 PM »
In the Law it says you shall not eat blood that is an abomination.
The Eucharist is a bloodless sacrifice. It says so in the Divine Liturgy.

but but but Christ said that it is his blood, so technically, directly or indirectly we are eating blood.. what does bloodless sacrifice mean?
It means that the sacrifice is made without the shedding of blood because we are participating in Christ's once-for-all sacrifice.



how does eating Christ's blood reconcile with 'thou shall not eat blood' ?

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2011, 05:35:53 PM »
Consistent with the perfection of Orthodox theology, the "change" that occurs at the consecretion during the Divine Liturgy, is referred to theologically, in the Greek language, as "metasiosis," (exact word may be a little off), meaning, a "change of 'essence."  "Transubstantiation" is a Western term.

so technically what what does it mean to eat the body of Christ and drink his blood?eating his human body or his divine?or both? what is the effect of Eucharist? Does it make anything of Christ active and actual in our soul?Is it a divine power that emanates in our soul?

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2011, 05:37:50 PM »
The Eucharist is a mystery, but we do know a few things.

Christ is there, He is present, and when we partake of Him, we partake not of mere flesh and blood, but Life-giving flesh and blood, on virtue of its unity with the divine nature.  The people of the Church, when they were baptized and chrismated, they become the Body of Christ.  Therefore, the Eucharist fortifies this body, and Christ's body and blood doesn't lose anything with it.  He is not digested, but it is we who are incorporated and fortified into His body.  It is a mystery in which the Church can only partake of, and even then, after proper honor and preparation.  It is how Christ incorporates us into Divine Life, and through us, we go back into the world trying to spread this divine life to others through examples and teachings, so that others may learn through us to "taste and see that the Lord is good" (Psalm 34:8).  This is not physical sustenance, but rather the ultimate divine blessing of utmost wonder for our lives as a whole.

The liturgy is also a very important aspect in all of this.  A perfect Eucharist is perfected by a perfect liturgy.  A liturgy that cleanses and elevates all our human and physical senses, our intellectual sense, our spiritual sense into the divine life.  There are icons and colors around you, icons especially of Christ for sight.  The hymns and readings for the hearing.  The touching of the icons, the candles, the hands of the priest, the touching of the Cross, the kiss of peace, and the touching of the hem of the altar as a remembrance to the lady who was healed by Christ just by merely touching a hem of his robe.  The engagement of our intellectual and social lives by the sermon of the priest.  The sweet smell of incense.  And the sweet taste of the Eucharist, a sense of real intimacy with Christ at the highest level.  All of these are to elevate us into the Holy of Holies and take this with us to the world that the world may be transformed.

Finally, if you eat, live, breathe, touch, smell, contemplate that the Lord is good (just as anyone would eat, live, breathe whatever their passions or careers are), then your life would be an exemplary one.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 05:47:14 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline JLatimer

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2011, 05:42:48 PM »
Consistent with the perfection of Orthodox theology, the "change" that occurs at the consecretion during the Divine Liturgy, is referred to theologically, in the Greek language, as "metasiosis," (exact word may be a little off), meaning, a "change of 'essence."  "Transubstantiation" is a Western term.

The word μετουσίωσισ is used in Greek theological literature to refer to the change. Transubstantiation is a Scholastic Latin equivalent this term. Transubstantiation means "change of essence". However, substantia/substance is nevertheless a bad translation for ousia/essence. Substantia should have been used to translate hypostasis, but for some reason became the word for ousia. In the Liturgy,

Μεταβαλὼν τῷ Πνεύματί σου τῷ Ἁγίῳ.  Ἀμήν· Ἀμήν· Ἀμήν.

the simple term 'change' is used.
1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2011, 05:48:21 PM »
The Eucharist is a mystery, but we do know a few things.

Christ is there, He is present, and when we partake of Him, we partake not of mere flesh and blood, but Life-giving flesh and blood, on virtue of its unity with the divine nature.  The people of the Church, when they were baptized and chrismated, they become the Body of Christ.  Therefore, the Eucharist fortifies this body, and Christ's body and blood doesn't lose anything with it.  He is not digested, but it is we who are incorporated and fortified into His body.  It is a mystery in which the Church can only partake of, and even then, after proper honor and preparation.  It is how Christ incorporates us into Divine Life, and through us, we go back into the world trying to spread this divine life to others through examples and teachings, so that others may learn through us to "taste and see that the Lord is good" (Psalm 34:8).  This is not physical sustenance, but rather the ultimate divine blessing of utmost wonder for our lives as a whole.

The liturgy is also a very important aspect in all of this.  A perfect Eucharist is perfected by a perfect liturgy.  A liturgy that cleanses and elevates all our human and physical senses, our intellectual sense, our spiritual sense into the divine life.  There are icons and colors around you, icons especially of Christ for sight.  The hymns and readings for the hearing.  The touching of the icons, the candles, the hands of the priest, the touching of the Cross, the kiss of peace, and the touching of the hem of the altar as a remembrance to the lady who was healed by Christ just by merely touching a hem of his robe.  The engagement of our intellectual and social lives by the sermon of the priest.  The sweet smell of incense.  And the sweet taste of the Eucharist, a sense of real intimacy with Christ at the highest level.  All of these are to elevate us into the Holy of Holies and take this with us to the world that the world may be transformed.

Finally, if you eat, live, breathe, touch, smell, contemplate that the Lord is good, then your life would be an exemplary one.

how come he is not digested?the wine and bread are, they go into the stomach and than out of the body.how are they remaining in us or us in them(elements of blood and flesh) if they are eliminated out of our organism?

You said that people are incorporated into the Body of Christ through Communion.. What happens to those who commune with unworthiness?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 05:49:13 PM by lost »

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2011, 06:13:03 PM »
You said that people are incorporated into the Body of Christ through Communion.. What happens to those who commune with unworthiness?
Damage.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2011, 06:14:26 PM »
how come he is not digested?the wine and bread are, they go into the stomach and than out of the body.how are they remaining in us or us in them(elements of blood and flesh) if they are eliminated out of our organism?
because it is not normal human flesh, but the glorified flesh and blood and presence of the New Adam. The flesh of a glorified, incorrupt resurrected body is different than yours or mine.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 06:14:41 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2011, 06:15:41 PM »
how come he is not digested?the wine and bread are, they go into the stomach and than out of the body.how are they remaining in us or us in them(elements of blood and flesh) if they are eliminated out of our organism?
Attempting this type of analysis actually impairs knowledge rather than improving it.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2011, 06:34:37 PM »
Isn`t that cannibalism?
Are organ donation and blood transfusion cannibalism?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 06:35:11 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2011, 07:32:44 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Which was the nature of the Euharist in the time of the Apostles?Was it sacramental?I heard that it was just a meal shared by christians.

Is the Holy Eucharist , Christ's literal flesh and blood?How?Isn`t that cannibalism?Isn`t against the bible to eat blood?

Was the Last Supper , the Jewish Passover?

This is silly, the first and second century fathers quoted Sacramental aspects of the Eucharist, folks who have suggested that the early Church did not practice Liturgical or Sacramental Holy Communion are being anachronistic applying the much later Protestant ethos to the "primitive" Church.  Remember that the Eucharistic Liturgies evolved DIRECTLY from the Temple Sacrifices, (in the Ethiopian tradition we still refer to the Eucharist as Qurbon paralleling the Hebrew terms from the 1st century Temple) which were of course long standing Hebrew liturgical services.  Many of the prayers, litanies, and mannerisms were adopted verbatim (especially those relying upon the Psalter) from the Hebrew liturgies, so to suggest that the Christian liturgical tradition was a later addition is not very accurate to the worshiping life of the early Church.

Further, the early Church theology also acknowledged what has later been called the Real Presence of the Holy Communion, that is the substantial presence of our Lord in the Body and Blood on  the Altar.  Yes, this is a seeming paradox to the Jewish community but that is exactly the point of it, a multi-layered paradox.  How can Bread become the real Body of God when it is Mysterious enough to say God even took on a physical Body in the first place (which has been contested by heretics for centuries)? These paradoxes take us out of our misguided, intellectual minds and bring us into the delves of our hearts where real worship and Communion with the Lord occurs.
Other threads have abundant quotes referencing these Fathers like Iraneas and others, but I do not have the time now to research them, check the bottom for similar threads and perhaps other brothers or sisters will kindly quote these for you :)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2011, 07:59:54 PM »
The Eucharist is a mystery, but we do know a few things.

Christ is there, He is present, and when we partake of Him, we partake not of mere flesh and blood, but Life-giving flesh and blood, on virtue of its unity with the divine nature.  The people of the Church, when they were baptized and chrismated, they become the Body of Christ.  Therefore, the Eucharist fortifies this body, and Christ's body and blood doesn't lose anything with it.  He is not digested, but it is we who are incorporated and fortified into His body.  It is a mystery in which the Church can only partake of, and even then, after proper honor and preparation.  It is how Christ incorporates us into Divine Life, and through us, we go back into the world trying to spread this divine life to others through examples and teachings, so that others may learn through us to "taste and see that the Lord is good" (Psalm 34:8).  This is not physical sustenance, but rather the ultimate divine blessing of utmost wonder for our lives as a whole.

The liturgy is also a very important aspect in all of this.  A perfect Eucharist is perfected by a perfect liturgy.  A liturgy that cleanses and elevates all our human and physical senses, our intellectual sense, our spiritual sense into the divine life.  There are icons and colors around you, icons especially of Christ for sight.  The hymns and readings for the hearing.  The touching of the icons, the candles, the hands of the priest, the touching of the Cross, the kiss of peace, and the touching of the hem of the altar as a remembrance to the lady who was healed by Christ just by merely touching a hem of his robe.  The engagement of our intellectual and social lives by the sermon of the priest.  The sweet smell of incense.  And the sweet taste of the Eucharist, a sense of real intimacy with Christ at the highest level.  All of these are to elevate us into the Holy of Holies and take this with us to the world that the world may be transformed.

Finally, if you eat, live, breathe, touch, smell, contemplate that the Lord is good, then your life would be an exemplary one.

how come he is not digested?the wine and bread are, they go into the stomach and than out of the body.how are they remaining in us or us in them(elements of blood and flesh) if they are eliminated out of our organism?

You said that people are incorporated into the Body of Christ through Communion.. What happens to those who commune with unworthiness?

I edited my post to make one small addition to hope that you may not ask that question, but apparently I added it too late.  I said:

Quote
Finally, if you eat, live, breathe, touch, smell, contemplate that the Lord is good (just as anyone would eat, live, breathe whatever their passions or careers are), then your life would be an exemplary one.

Let's say your passion is basketball.  Is it appropriate to ask someone how do you not digest a basketball if you "eat, live, and breathe" it?

In addition, the mechanics of how this union is achieved is a mystery.  We don't ask the question "how."  The Eucharist, in fact, all of faith, was never intended to be a "science."  The how in things is strictly the curiosity of other things in life.  But "how" in spirituality gets you nowhere.  Faith asks "why," and this why is extended to our practice and to our sacraments (mysteries).  The "how" in life is nice, but in faith, it is not nothing but vanity, and gets nowhere.  The important things in life never really cared about "how."  When your children, or your friend, or any loved one amazed by the loved you give him/her, do they ask, "how do you love me" or "why do you love me"?

So, when you eat, live, and breathe a passion in life, like trying to become like Christ, like God Incarnate Himself, this then becomes actualized concretely in the Eucharist.  By eating God's flesh and drinking God's blood and breathing in the Holy Spirit, you are vowing that you are actually living Christ's life to the fullest possible you can, as well as "proclaiming His death, confessing His resurrection and ascension into the highest heavens, and commemorating Him until He comes again" (commemorate here being living His life, not mere remembrance, as the Greek showed).  If this vow isn't taken seriously, then as St. Paul teaches, "For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body." (1 Cor. 11:29)
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline JLatimer

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2011, 10:41:46 PM »
how come he is not digested?the wine and bread are, they go into the stomach and than out of the body.how are they remaining in us or us in them(elements of blood and flesh) if they are eliminated out of our organism?
Attempting this type of analysis actually impairs knowledge rather than improving it.

I agree.
1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.

Offline JLatimer

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2011, 10:47:51 PM »
Isn`t that cannibalism?
Are organ donation and blood transfusion cannibalism?

Jehovah's Witnesses think so, which is an interesting thing, since Jehovah's Witnesses are Arians who don't accept the idea that God is incarnate.

Once you really accept that God, true God from true God, of one essence with the Father, is incarnate, everything else just flows out of that. The Eucharist makes perfect sense if you truly believe the Incarnation. I think perhaps that is why on the Royal Doors you have the Annunciation.
1 Samuel 25:22 (KJV)
So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2011, 10:51:00 PM »
I think perhaps that is why on the Royal Doors you have the Annunciation.

Yes, so do we  :)
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2011, 02:59:52 AM »
The Eucharist is a mystery, but we do know a few things.

Christ is there, He is present, and when we partake of Him, we partake not of mere flesh and blood, but Life-giving flesh and blood, on virtue of its unity with the divine nature.  The people of the Church, when they were baptized and chrismated, they become the Body of Christ.  Therefore, the Eucharist fortifies this body, and Christ's body and blood doesn't lose anything with it.  He is not digested, but it is we who are incorporated and fortified into His body.  It is a mystery in which the Church can only partake of, and even then, after proper honor and preparation.  It is how Christ incorporates us into Divine Life, and through us, we go back into the world trying to spread this divine life to others through examples and teachings, so that others may learn through us to "taste and see that the Lord is good" (Psalm 34:8).  This is not physical sustenance, but rather the ultimate divine blessing of utmost wonder for our lives as a whole.

The liturgy is also a very important aspect in all of this.  A perfect Eucharist is perfected by a perfect liturgy.  A liturgy that cleanses and elevates all our human and physical senses, our intellectual sense, our spiritual sense into the divine life.  There are icons and colors around you, icons especially of Christ for sight.  The hymns and readings for the hearing.  The touching of the icons, the candles, the hands of the priest, the touching of the Cross, the kiss of peace, and the touching of the hem of the altar as a remembrance to the lady who was healed by Christ just by merely touching a hem of his robe.  The engagement of our intellectual and social lives by the sermon of the priest.  The sweet smell of incense.  And the sweet taste of the Eucharist, a sense of real intimacy with Christ at the highest level.  All of these are to elevate us into the Holy of Holies and take this with us to the world that the world may be transformed.

Finally, if you eat, live, breathe, touch, smell, contemplate that the Lord is good, then your life would be an exemplary one.

how come he is not digested?the wine and bread are, they go into the stomach and than out of the body.how are they remaining in us or us in them(elements of blood and flesh) if they are eliminated out of our organism?

You said that people are incorporated into the Body of Christ through Communion.. What happens to those who commune with unworthiness?

I edited my post to make one small addition to hope that you may not ask that question, but apparently I added it too late.  I said:

Quote
Finally, if you eat, live, breathe, touch, smell, contemplate that the Lord is good (just as anyone would eat, live, breathe whatever their passions or careers are), then your life would be an exemplary one.

Let's say your passion is basketball.  Is it appropriate to ask someone how do you not digest a basketball if you "eat, live, and breathe" it?

In addition, the mechanics of how this union is achieved is a mystery.  We don't ask the question "how."  The Eucharist, in fact, all of faith, was never intended to be a "science."  The how in things is strictly the curiosity of other things in life.  But "how" in spirituality gets you nowhere.  Faith asks "why," and this why is extended to our practice and to our sacraments (mysteries).  The "how" in life is nice, but in faith, it is not nothing but vanity, and gets nowhere.  The important things in life never really cared about "how."  When your children, or your friend, or any loved one amazed by the loved you give him/her, do they ask, "how do you love me" or "why do you love me"?

So, when you eat, live, and breathe a passion in life, like trying to become like Christ, like God Incarnate Himself, this then becomes actualized concretely in the Eucharist.  By eating God's flesh and drinking God's blood and breathing in the Holy Spirit, you are vowing that you are actually living Christ's life to the fullest possible you can, as well as "proclaiming His death, confessing His resurrection and ascension into the highest heavens, and commemorating Him until He comes again" (commemorate here being living His life, not mere remembrance, as the Greek showed).  If this vow isn't taken seriously, then as St. Paul teaches, "For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body." (1 Cor. 11:29)

I don`t understand... if you already eat,drink,sleep, breath Christ what need you have for Eucharist from your point of view?

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2011, 03:04:54 AM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Which was the nature of the Euharist in the time of the Apostles?Was it sacramental?I heard that it was just a meal shared by christians.

Is the Holy Eucharist , Christ's literal flesh and blood?How?Isn`t that cannibalism?Isn`t against the bible to eat blood?

Was the Last Supper , the Jewish Passover?

This is silly, the first and second century fathers quoted Sacramental aspects of the Eucharist, folks who have suggested that the early Church did not practice Liturgical or Sacramental Holy Communion are being anachronistic applying the much later Protestant ethos to the "primitive" Church.  Remember that the Eucharistic Liturgies evolved DIRECTLY from the Temple Sacrifices, (in the Ethiopian tradition we still refer to the Eucharist as Qurbon paralleling the Hebrew terms from the 1st century Temple) which were of course long standing Hebrew liturgical services.  Many of the prayers, litanies, and mannerisms were adopted verbatim (especially those relying upon the Psalter) from the Hebrew liturgies, so to suggest that the Christian liturgical tradition was a later addition is not very accurate to the worshiping life of the early Church.

Further, the early Church theology also acknowledged what has later been called the Real Presence of the Holy Communion, that is the substantial presence of our Lord in the Body and Blood on  the Altar.  Yes, this is a seeming paradox to the Jewish community but that is exactly the point of it, a multi-layered paradox.  How can Bread become the real Body of God when it is Mysterious enough to say God even took on a physical Body in the first place (which has been contested by heretics for centuries)? These paradoxes take us out of our misguided, intellectual minds and bring us into the delves of our hearts where real worship and Communion with the Lord occurs.
Other threads have abundant quotes referencing these Fathers like Iraneas and others, but I do not have the time now to research them, check the bottom for similar threads and perhaps other brothers or sisters will kindly quote these for you :)

stay blessed,
habte selassie

The problem is there is almoust zero evidence of the sacramental essence of the Eucharist in the 1st century.I know of none.. In another site some Orthodox told me that the Lord's Supper was a meal of love, where everybody brought food and drink and ate them together.

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2011, 03:28:54 AM »
Was the Last Supper , the Jewish Passover?

This is not necessarily the case.  Scholars say that they do not expect to ever untangle the question as to whether the Last Supper used leavened or unleavened bread. 


Matthew, Mark and Luke indicate that it was a Passover meal.  John indicates that it was not.

The uncertainty about this emanates from sacred Scripture itself.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2011, 03:48:24 AM »
The problem is there is almoust zero evidence of the sacramental essence of the Eucharist in the 1st century.I know of none..

Actually, there is much evidence for sacramental Eucharist in the 1st century.

"Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?" -1 Corinthians 10:16

"Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep." -1 Corinthians 11:27-32

"The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, 'How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?'

Then Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” -Gospel of John 6:52-58

"But let none eat or drink of your Eucharist except those who have been baptised in the Lord's Name. For concerning this also did the Lord say, 'Give not that which is holy to the dogs." -Didache of the Twelve Apostles to the Gentiles (This quote emphasizes a sacramental restraint)

"They [Gnostics] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again." -Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans, early 2nd Century (unless Ignatius made it up within a decade after the First Century, a claim which any reasonable human would discount, this is a valid source for 1st Century belief)

It should also be pointed out that Christ tells the Apostles that they should perform the Lord's supper as a type of sacrifice that has its roots in the Old Testament. The word translated as "rememberance" or "memorial" actually conveys, I believe, something more akin to the word "invocation". Examine the following:

Book of Leviticus 24:5-9
“Then you shall take fine flour and bake twelve cakes with it; two-tenths of an ephah shall be in each cake. 'You shall set them in two rows, six to a row, on the pure gold table before the LORD. 'You shall put pure frankincense on each row that it may be a memorial [Septuagint Greek: Anamnesin] portion for the bread, even an offering by fire to the LORD. 'Every sabbath day he shall set it in order before the LORD continually; it is an everlasting covenant for the sons of Israel. 'It shall be for Aaron and his sons, and they shall eat it in a holy place; for it is most holy to him from the LORD’S offerings by fire, his portion forever.”

Epistle to the Hebrews 10:1-3
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? But in those there is a reminder [Greek: Anamnesis] of sins year by year."

Gospel of Luke 22:17-20
"And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, 'Take this and share it among yourselves; for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.' And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'This is My Body which is given for you; do this in remembrance [Greek: Anamnesin] of Me.' And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, 'This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My Blood."

In another site some Orthodox told me that the Lord's Supper was a meal of love, where everybody brought food and drink and ate them together.

Okay. I think you got a bit confused about what the person meant.

The Eucharist is a liturgical meal, like Passover, that was part of a larger meal context. Originally this meal was called an "Agape feast", and in many EO circles, it still is. Everyone brought food and drink; some of that food and drink would be wine and bread. Some of that wine and bread would be consecrated as the Eucharist.

St. Paul speaks of the many issues with this format in 1 Corinthians, which is why he gives the above warning about "eating and drinking judgment". People were treating the meal as a simple gathering and many abuses were occurring. As a matter of dispensation, the Eucharist and the rest of the Agape meal were held sequentially one after the other instead of at the same time.

Today in the Orthodox Church, the rest of the Agape Feast occurs (or should occur) right after the Eucharist and dismissal. Bread is still usually made and brought to the Eucharist by a member of the church.

I hope that helps. Please don't be afraid to address anything I've said.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 04:17:08 AM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2011, 04:43:53 AM »
Please read Holy Liturgy of Apostle James believed to be written before year 61 centered on giving Holy Eucharist to people on Sundays. Also Holy Liturgy of Apostle and Evangelist Mark. Holy Liturgy of Apostle Peter, Thomas. These are historical documents showing that Apostles gave holy Eucharist for eternal life to people. 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 04:44:28 AM by pasadi97 »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2011, 08:36:13 AM »
The Eucharist is a mystery, but we do know a few things.

Christ is there, He is present, and when we partake of Him, we partake not of mere flesh and blood, but Life-giving flesh and blood, on virtue of its unity with the divine nature.  The people of the Church, when they were baptized and chrismated, they become the Body of Christ.  Therefore, the Eucharist fortifies this body, and Christ's body and blood doesn't lose anything with it.  He is not digested, but it is we who are incorporated and fortified into His body.  It is a mystery in which the Church can only partake of, and even then, after proper honor and preparation.  It is how Christ incorporates us into Divine Life, and through us, we go back into the world trying to spread this divine life to others through examples and teachings, so that others may learn through us to "taste and see that the Lord is good" (Psalm 34:8).  This is not physical sustenance, but rather the ultimate divine blessing of utmost wonder for our lives as a whole.

The liturgy is also a very important aspect in all of this.  A perfect Eucharist is perfected by a perfect liturgy.  A liturgy that cleanses and elevates all our human and physical senses, our intellectual sense, our spiritual sense into the divine life.  There are icons and colors around you, icons especially of Christ for sight.  The hymns and readings for the hearing.  The touching of the icons, the candles, the hands of the priest, the touching of the Cross, the kiss of peace, and the touching of the hem of the altar as a remembrance to the lady who was healed by Christ just by merely touching a hem of his robe.  The engagement of our intellectual and social lives by the sermon of the priest.  The sweet smell of incense.  And the sweet taste of the Eucharist, a sense of real intimacy with Christ at the highest level.  All of these are to elevate us into the Holy of Holies and take this with us to the world that the world may be transformed.

Finally, if you eat, live, breathe, touch, smell, contemplate that the Lord is good, then your life would be an exemplary one.

how come he is not digested?the wine and bread are, they go into the stomach and than out of the body.how are they remaining in us or us in them(elements of blood and flesh) if they are eliminated out of our organism?

You said that people are incorporated into the Body of Christ through Communion.. What happens to those who commune with unworthiness?

I edited my post to make one small addition to hope that you may not ask that question, but apparently I added it too late.  I said:

Quote
Finally, if you eat, live, breathe, touch, smell, contemplate that the Lord is good (just as anyone would eat, live, breathe whatever their passions or careers are), then your life would be an exemplary one.

Let's say your passion is basketball.  Is it appropriate to ask someone how do you not digest a basketball if you "eat, live, and breathe" it?

In addition, the mechanics of how this union is achieved is a mystery.  We don't ask the question "how."  The Eucharist, in fact, all of faith, was never intended to be a "science."  The how in things is strictly the curiosity of other things in life.  But "how" in spirituality gets you nowhere.  Faith asks "why," and this why is extended to our practice and to our sacraments (mysteries).  The "how" in life is nice, but in faith, it is not nothing but vanity, and gets nowhere.  The important things in life never really cared about "how."  When your children, or your friend, or any loved one amazed by the loved you give him/her, do they ask, "how do you love me" or "why do you love me"?

So, when you eat, live, and breathe a passion in life, like trying to become like Christ, like God Incarnate Himself, this then becomes actualized concretely in the Eucharist.  By eating God's flesh and drinking God's blood and breathing in the Holy Spirit, you are vowing that you are actually living Christ's life to the fullest possible you can, as well as "proclaiming His death, confessing His resurrection and ascension into the highest heavens, and commemorating Him until He comes again" (commemorate here being living His life, not mere remembrance, as the Greek showed).  If this vow isn't taken seriously, then as St. Paul teaches, "For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body." (1 Cor. 11:29)

I don`t understand... if you already eat,drink,sleep, breath Christ what need you have for Eucharist from your point of view?
You are what you eat.
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2011, 08:38:41 AM »
Isn`t that cannibalism?
Are organ donation and blood transfusion cannibalism?

Jehovah's Witnesses think so, which is an interesting thing, since Jehovah's Witnesses are Arians who don't accept the idea that God is incarnate.

Once you really accept that God, true God from true God, of one essence with the Father, is incarnate, everything else just flows out of that. The Eucharist makes perfect sense if you truly believe the Incarnation. I think perhaps that is why on the Royal Doors you have the Annunciation.
Also you have on the flanking icons the Holy Theotokos and Christ Child (how He came) and on the other the Christ Pantecrator of Reveleation (how He will come agai) and between the Royal Doors opening to the altar, where He is coming now.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2011, 08:40:27 AM »
John 6:53

Protestants argue that it was just a symbol.
Yes, they didn't like this teaching of Christ, and never have.  See John 6:66 (interesting number), the only Biblical reference to  Protestantism.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2011, 09:05:47 AM »
JN 6:53 Jesus therefore said to them, "Most certainly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you don't have life in yourselves.
JN 6:54 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
JN 6:55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
JN 6:56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives in me, and I in him.
JN 6:57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he who feeds on me, he will also live because of me.
JN 6:58 This is the bread which came down out of heaven--not as our fathers ate the manna, and died. He who eats this bread will live forever."
JN 6:59 He said these things in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
JN 6:60 Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard this, said, "This is a hard saying! Who can listen to it?"
JN 6:61 But Jesus knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble?
JN 6:62 Then what if you would see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
JN 6:63 It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
JN 6:64 But there are some of you who don't believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who didn't believe, and who it was who would betray him.
JN 6:65 He said, "For this cause have I said to you that no one can come to me, unless it is given to him by my Father."
JN 6:66 At this, many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
JN 6:67 Jesus said therefore to the twelve, "You don't also want to go away, do you?"
JN 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life.
JN 6:69 We have come to believe and know that you are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
JN 6:70 Jesus answered them, "Didn't I choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?"
JN 6:71 Now he spoke of Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, for it was he who would betray him, being one of the twelve.

John 6:53 Sickness of Human condition as not having life is presented
John 6:54 Holy Eucharist is presented as food for eternal life.
John 6:60 some disciples say this is hard saying, that they had to feed on Jesus. If this is about symbols, words or nothing would be this a hard saying ? No. So this invalidates Protestantism belief. Also would be people leaving if this would be about words or nothing? No. again Protestantism dismissed.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 09:08:26 AM by pasadi97 »
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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2011, 10:48:27 AM »
The Eucharist is a mystery, but we do know a few things.

Christ is there, He is present, and when we partake of Him, we partake not of mere flesh and blood, but Life-giving flesh and blood, on virtue of its unity with the divine nature.  The people of the Church, when they were baptized and chrismated, they become the Body of Christ.  Therefore, the Eucharist fortifies this body, and Christ's body and blood doesn't lose anything with it.  He is not digested, but it is we who are incorporated and fortified into His body.  It is a mystery in which the Church can only partake of, and even then, after proper honor and preparation.  It is how Christ incorporates us into Divine Life, and through us, we go back into the world trying to spread this divine life to others through examples and teachings, so that others may learn through us to "taste and see that the Lord is good" (Psalm 34:8).  This is not physical sustenance, but rather the ultimate divine blessing of utmost wonder for our lives as a whole.

The liturgy is also a very important aspect in all of this.  A perfect Eucharist is perfected by a perfect liturgy.  A liturgy that cleanses and elevates all our human and physical senses, our intellectual sense, our spiritual sense into the divine life.  There are icons and colors around you, icons especially of Christ for sight.  The hymns and readings for the hearing.  The touching of the icons, the candles, the hands of the priest, the touching of the Cross, the kiss of peace, and the touching of the hem of the altar as a remembrance to the lady who was healed by Christ just by merely touching a hem of his robe.  The engagement of our intellectual and social lives by the sermon of the priest.  The sweet smell of incense.  And the sweet taste of the Eucharist, a sense of real intimacy with Christ at the highest level.  All of these are to elevate us into the Holy of Holies and take this with us to the world that the world may be transformed.

Finally, if you eat, live, breathe, touch, smell, contemplate that the Lord is good, then your life would be an exemplary one.

how come he is not digested?the wine and bread are, they go into the stomach and than out of the body.how are they remaining in us or us in them(elements of blood and flesh) if they are eliminated out of our organism?

You said that people are incorporated into the Body of Christ through Communion.. What happens to those who commune with unworthiness?

I edited my post to make one small addition to hope that you may not ask that question, but apparently I added it too late.  I said:

Quote
Finally, if you eat, live, breathe, touch, smell, contemplate that the Lord is good (just as anyone would eat, live, breathe whatever their passions or careers are), then your life would be an exemplary one.

Let's say your passion is basketball.  Is it appropriate to ask someone how do you not digest a basketball if you "eat, live, and breathe" it?

In addition, the mechanics of how this union is achieved is a mystery.  We don't ask the question "how."  The Eucharist, in fact, all of faith, was never intended to be a "science."  The how in things is strictly the curiosity of other things in life.  But "how" in spirituality gets you nowhere.  Faith asks "why," and this why is extended to our practice and to our sacraments (mysteries).  The "how" in life is nice, but in faith, it is not nothing but vanity, and gets nowhere.  The important things in life never really cared about "how."  When your children, or your friend, or any loved one amazed by the loved you give him/her, do they ask, "how do you love me" or "why do you love me"?

So, when you eat, live, and breathe a passion in life, like trying to become like Christ, like God Incarnate Himself, this then becomes actualized concretely in the Eucharist.  By eating God's flesh and drinking God's blood and breathing in the Holy Spirit, you are vowing that you are actually living Christ's life to the fullest possible you can, as well as "proclaiming His death, confessing His resurrection and ascension into the highest heavens, and commemorating Him until He comes again" (commemorate here being living His life, not mere remembrance, as the Greek showed).  If this vow isn't taken seriously, then as St. Paul teaches, "For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body." (1 Cor. 11:29)

I don`t understand... if you already eat,drink,sleep, breath Christ what need you have for Eucharist from your point of view?
You are what you eat.

:D , old wisdom... that is a proverb here..

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2011, 10:49:39 AM »
Please read Holy Liturgy of Apostle James believed to be written before year 61 centered on giving Holy Eucharist to people on Sundays. Also Holy Liturgy of Apostle and Evangelist Mark. Holy Liturgy of Apostle Peter, Thomas. These are historical documents showing that Apostles gave holy Eucharist for eternal life to people. 

suposingly that was not James' liturgy, but composed of one of the Church fathers...

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2011, 10:56:54 AM »
150 St. Justin Martyr describe's the liturgical worship of the Church, centered in the Eucharist. Liturgical worship is rooted in both the Old and New Testament

Manuscript traditionThe Liturgy of Saint James is considered to be the oldest surviving liturgy developed for general use in the Church. Its date of composition is still disputed with some authorities proposing an early date, perhaps ca. AD 60, close to the time of composition of Saint Paul's Epistle to the Romans,

In addition to the Liturgy of Saint James, there is the Liturgy of Saint Mark, from Alexandria, modified later and known as the Liturgy of Saint Cyril. Both James and Mark liturgies date to the first century and are greatly similar.

Everything is disputed in our days, anyhow God loves everyone.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 11:05:17 AM by pasadi97 »
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2011, 11:03:25 AM »
Was the Last Supper , the Jewish Passover?

This is not necessarily the case.  Scholars say that they do not expect to ever untangle the question as to whether the Last Supper used leavened or unleavened bread. 


Matthew, Mark and Luke indicate that it was a Passover meal.  John indicates that it was not.

The uncertainty about this emanates from sacred Scripture itself.

you have been circumcised for nothing mate ? :D ... It was NOT the Passover Meal... The Feast of Unleaven was called a Passover... The first day of Unleaven according to the Law of Moses coincided with the Passover Seder... In the Jewish counting of the days, it was the sunset of the 13th of Nissan  and the start of Nissan the 14th, which coincided with Passover... It was still the day of Preparation, when the dough was removed and the lambs were to be slain.The Passover was ment to be eaten on the 14th with bitten earbs and unleaven bread... So the Passover is also the start of the First of Unleaven... Passover and Unleaven were even used as synonims..


Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2011, 11:08:34 AM »
150 St. Justin Martyr describe's the liturgical worship of the Church, centered in the Eucharist. Liturgical worship is rooted in both the Old and New Testament

Manuscript traditionThe Liturgy of Saint James is considered to be the oldest surviving liturgy developed for general use in the Church. Its date of composition is still disputed with some authorities proposing an early date, perhaps ca. AD 60, close to the time of composition of Saint Paul's Epistle to the Romans,

In addition to the Liturgy of Saint James, there is the Liturgy of Saint Mark, from Alexandria, modified later and known as the Liturgy of Saint Cyril. Both James and Mark liturgies date to the first century and are greatly similar.

Everything is disputed in our days, anyhow God loves everyone.

nevertheless the validity of it is questionable...

suposingly there were many writtings "of the first century" invented... another one of those is the didache...
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 11:08:55 AM by lost »

Offline LBK

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2011, 11:13:04 AM »
nevertheless the validity of it is questionable...

suposingly there were many writtings "of the first century" invented... another one of those is the didache...

Suppose the Gospels and Epistles of the first century were invented ....  ::)
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline lost

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Re: Euharist questions
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2011, 11:18:19 AM »
the nature of many 1st century writings is dubios and questionable... the writings of "pope" Clement... , The Epistle to the Magnesians of Ignatius Theophorus,etc... you want my opinion... the Church forged and invented them, as it forged the didache because of Rome.. Silly Church.. it did not need to do that...