Author Topic: Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing  (Read 3944 times)

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Offline Friarmoo32

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Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« on: July 10, 2004, 02:25:24 PM »
Hello, I was watching the Mass with Patriarch Bartholomew I, on the feast of Saints Peter and Paul.  I know that the Orthodox way of blessing one's self is Forehead, Chest and then Right to Left, and that's how the Patriarch blest himself, but when blessing the congregation with the Book of the Gospels, he went Left and then Right.  I was wondering, why did he do that, and do all Clergy in the Orthodox Church go left ro right when blessing the congregation?  Thank you and God Bless You.

Offline icxn

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2004, 03:19:02 PM »
His Left to Right (when blessing the people) is Right to Left from the people's point of view ;) So when the people follow after his example they act like a ... mirror, i.e. from right to left.

icxn

PS. When you are facing someone, isn't his right your left?

Offline Friarmoo32

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2004, 06:45:25 PM »
Yes, but remember, in the Western (Catholic) Church, whenever a Priest or Bishop etc...blesses the people, he still goes left to right.  Also, what is the spiritual symbolism behind making the sign of the cross.  From both points of view, like why is it left to right, what's the symbolism there, and right to left, whats the symbolism there.  Thanks again!

Offline TomS

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2004, 07:09:12 PM »
Yes, but remember, in the Western (Catholic) Church,

zzzzzzzz..... Who cares ehat the RCC does? They have spent the last 950 years corrupting the Faith.

Offline Friarmoo32

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2004, 08:52:01 PM »
Ummm because I am a Catholic.  I was simply only wondering why Eastern Orthodox Priests do that, that was it.  I was respectfully asking why it is done.  Frankly, there was no need to bring up the "Corrupting of the Faith" argument.  So would somebody else please answer my original question, that would be greatly appreciated.

Offline TomS

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2004, 10:43:30 PM »
Ummm because I am a Catholic.  I was simply only wondering why Eastern Orthodox Priests do that, that was it.  

I am Orthodox. Why do the RC Priests do it the other way?

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2004, 10:46:56 PM »
Yes, but remember, in the Western (Catholic) Church, whenever a Priest or Bishop etc...blesses the people, he still goes left to right.  Also, what is the spiritual symbolism behind making the sign of the cross.  From both points of view, like why is it left to right, what's the symbolism there, and right to left, whats the symbolism there.  Thanks again!

Friarmoo32,
When an Orthodox bishop or priest blesses the faithful, he is placing the sign of the Cross on them - hence, left to right for him is right to left on them.
Interesting about the Latin practice...

Demetri
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Offline Friarmoo32

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2004, 10:52:55 PM »
Thank you very much Demetri for that RESPECTFUL answer.  And, it is believed, from what I have heard, that Roman Catholics got to blessing themselves the other way because, back in those days (200's etc..) they werent very smart.  So when the Priest would go right to left as he blest them, the congregation went left right instead, and over time that became the practice.  That's just what I heard.  I hope that answers your question TomS, maybe you should learn some manners on how to talk with other people, instead of insulting them as you have on other boards I have seen.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2004, 10:53:31 PM by Friarmoo32 »

Offline TomS

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2004, 10:58:42 PM »
I hope that answers your question TomS, maybe you should learn some manners on how to talk with other people, instead of insulting them as you have on other boards I have seen.

That's very strange. I post here and at the cafe exclusively - because I AM Orthodox. I don't post on RC boards asking questions.

What are you doing prowling around Orthodox boards?
Are you finally beginning to see the errors of Catholicism?
Or are the RC's of today still not "very smart" as you said in your post?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2004, 11:10:29 PM by Tom+ú »

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2004, 11:08:10 PM »
Thank you very much Demetri for that RESPECTFUL answer.  And, it is believed, from what I have heard, that Roman Catholics got to blessing themselves the other way because, back in those days (200's etc..) they werent very smart.  So when the Priest would go right to left as he blest them, the congregation went left right instead, and over time that became the practice.  That's just what I heard.  

I have also read that version of how the Latins began to make the sign of the cross - a mix up in copying their priests.
I dismissed that anecdote figuring it was the usual Roman-bashing, but now that you state your priests bless in same way ours do, well, I don't know.
I also heard that Pope So-and-so decreed this form. I disregarded that as well lacking a good reference.
Given that other equally old eastern churches do the left-right form, and assuming that's not Latin influence (which I doubt), who knows which is older? Fortunately it's not an issue.

Demetri
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Offline Friarmoo32

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2004, 11:41:41 PM »
TomS, actually yes as a matter of fact, I am, that's why I am asking questions, I am not "lurking" anywhere.    TomS once again, I am here because I am very interested in Orthodoxy, and when a Catholic who is wanting answers comes across a rude person like that, they will get offended.  I'm not breaking any laws, I am very curious and I do want to know things, and I am realizing errors in my Church, but you know you still have no right to be rude about it, and you dont have to mock me.  The only reason why I get upset with comments is because, all my friends and family are Catholic, and at the moment I am still as well.  I really do feel a calling from God to Orthodoxy, but I am good friends with my parish Priest, but yet I still feel a calling.  So what I'm saying is, I'm sincere in my questions, and I would ask that you stop mocking me and making me feel stupid, that's not a real good example to show a non-Orthodox.  I dont think it was necessary to say "Or are the RC's of today still not "very smart" as you said in your post?"  Nobody had schools then, so nobody was educated like we are today.  But, if you could, please stop making me look like a fool, and overshadowing me with your Orthodox knowledge, like you said, your Orthodox, I'm not.  I'm here looking for the truth, and I firmly do believe I am finding it in Orthodoxy, so if you could, try to make my spiritual journey a little more easier by just answering the questions.  So, no not all RC's are stupid TomS, and that's not what I meant.  If this is how this site treats Catholic visitors, then I'm sorry, I didnt know there were prejudice towards us, even though I am looking for the truth in Orthodoxy.  
« Last Edit: July 10, 2004, 11:49:23 PM by Friarmoo32 »

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2004, 11:53:11 PM »
 Demetri, no I was not referring to now, I was saying that the left and right thing came from the right and left, but the people mirrored the Priest.  So, actually, I am saying the Eastern way is actually the right way.  

Yes, that is what I was trying to state; I just didn't word it very well  :)
As to the "right" way, I am not sure, which is why I brought up the Oriental traditions. But yes, I do think that at one time all Chalcedonian churches, at least, followed the Orthodox practice.

Demetri
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Offline Friarmoo32

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2004, 11:57:38 PM »
Yes, sorry Demetri.  Actually, it wasnt you it was me lol.  After I had reread that, I changed it and took what I said out, because I realized what you meant.  But apparantly I was to late! lol.  Sorry.

Offline Anastasios

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2004, 11:59:14 PM »
zzzzzzzz..... Who cares ehat the RCC does? They have spent the last 950 years corrupting the Faith.

The poster is simply trying to compare things, Tom. Please don't get out the claws.  ;)

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Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism and may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.

Offline TomS

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2004, 08:28:41 PM »
Yeah. You are right Anastosios. I'm just a little leery of RC's who post these types of questions outside of the Orthodox-Catholic board.

I apologize Friarmoo32.

Offline Friarmoo32

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2004, 10:47:12 PM »
Apologies accepted TomS!

Offline thornygrace

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2004, 02:47:05 PM »
Tom,

I am very concerned about your response here. In your signature line you state: "You will be judged as you judge others."  Lord have mercy!  Your critical and judgemental statements in your reply to this honest and respectful question is sickening.  I am very concerned for you.


That's very strange. I post here and at the cafe exclusively - because I AM Orthodox. I don't post on RC boards asking questions.

What are you doing prowling around Orthodox boards?
Are you finally beginning to see the errors of Catholicism?
Or are the RC's of today still not "very smart" as you said in your post?

"Saints are the ones that let the Light shine through them."

Offline TomS

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Re:Self-Blessing and Patriarch (or Priestly) Blessing
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2004, 10:42:18 PM »
Tom,

I am very concerned about your response here. In your signature line you state: "You will be judged as you judge others."  Lord have mercy!  Your critical and judgemental statements in your reply to this honest and respectful question is sickening.  I am very concerned for you.

As you should be. It is hard being 5 years old and typing this stuff.

This is, what, your 3rd post on this board? Tell you what -- you stick around for a year or so, learn about the dynamics of this board, and then come back and talk to me.