Author Topic: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)  (Read 1001 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,375
pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« on: July 28, 2011, 02:30:47 PM »
I have been doing research, and found that my ancestors came from Ayrshire, Scotland.  Are there any saints that come from this area, or around it?

It seems that everyone in Church celebrates a Slava, and they pick a saint reflecting their ancestry (they are converts, btw).  I'm looking for a saint to be the patron of the Hardin clan  ;D

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2011, 02:36:23 PM »
Our very own Fr. Peter Farrington was working on something called "Saints and Holy People of the British Isles", maybe he can help you out.
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,375
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2011, 02:37:13 PM »
I will ask him.  Thank you, Severian!!!

Offline Severian

  • Aspiring Allopathic Ankle Orthodontist
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,175
  • Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth
    • St. Jacob Baradeus' Orthodox Christian Fellowship
  • Faith: Orthodox Christianity
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodoxy
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2011, 02:37:45 PM »
I will ask him.  Thank you, Severian!!!
No problem.  :)
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline John of the North

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,533
  • Christ is Risen!
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 02:39:45 PM »
I have been doing research, and found that my ancestors came from Ayrshire, Scotland.  Are there any saints that come from this area, or around it?

It seems that everyone in Church celebrates a Slava, and they pick a saint reflecting their ancestry (they are converts, btw).  I'm looking for a saint to be the patron of the Hardin clan  ;D

St Evan (Inan) Aug 18
9th cent. A hermit in Ayrshire in Scotland, where churches are dedicated to him.
"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,375
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2011, 02:40:30 PM »
I have been doing research, and found that my ancestors came from Ayrshire, Scotland.  Are there any saints that come from this area, or around it?

It seems that everyone in Church celebrates a Slava, and they pick a saint reflecting their ancestry (they are converts, btw).  I'm looking for a saint to be the patron of the Hardin clan  ;D

St Evan (Inan) Aug 18
9th cent. A hermit in Ayrshire in Scotland, where churches are dedicated to him.
Perfect!!!  Thanks so much!

Offline John of the North

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,533
  • Christ is Risen!
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2011, 02:48:56 PM »
I have been doing research, and found that my ancestors came from Ayrshire, Scotland.  Are there any saints that come from this area, or around it?

It seems that everyone in Church celebrates a Slava, and they pick a saint reflecting their ancestry (they are converts, btw).  I'm looking for a saint to be the patron of the Hardin clan  ;D

St Evan (Inan) Aug 18
9th cent. A hermit in Ayrshire in Scotland, where churches are dedicated to him.
Perfect!!!  Thanks so much!

If you email Fr Andrew over at Orthodox England ( http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk ), where I got this info, he may be able to point you to a more extensive hagiography. An icon would have to be a custom job, in all likelihood.
"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,375
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2011, 02:52:37 PM »
Thanks, I will e-mail him.

Fr. Anastasios shared this with me, and it's wonderful!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jc7AXvZCCko/S2HzD62YLCI/AAAAAAAAASM/rmktlJTZjAk/s1600-h/All-Saints-of-Scotland.jpg

I just wish I could  make it bigger (without distorting it) so I could mount it.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 02:53:08 PM by trevor72694 »

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,375

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 08:58:29 PM »
Thanks, I will e-mail him.

Fr. Anastasios shared this with me, and it's wonderful!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jc7AXvZCCko/S2HzD62YLCI/AAAAAAAAASM/rmktlJTZjAk/s1600-h/All-Saints-of-Scotland.jpg

I just wish I could  make it bigger (without distorting it) so I could mount it.

You could email the blogger and see if they have a different file, preferably in a raw format, which you could take and have a copy made, which could be rather large and look much better than a printed out jpeg.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2011, 09:58:35 PM »
Thanks, I will e-mail him.

Fr. Anastasios shared this with me, and it's wonderful!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jc7AXvZCCko/S2HzD62YLCI/AAAAAAAAASM/rmktlJTZjAk/s1600-h/All-Saints-of-Scotland.jpg

I just wish I could  make it bigger (without distorting it) so I could mount it.

Offered for sale here
http://www.comeandseeicons.com/groups/drz19.htm

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,375
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2011, 10:19:59 PM »
Thanks, I will e-mail him.

Fr. Anastasios shared this with me, and it's wonderful!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jc7AXvZCCko/S2HzD62YLCI/AAAAAAAAASM/rmktlJTZjAk/s1600-h/All-Saints-of-Scotland.jpg

I just wish I could  make it bigger (without distorting it) so I could mount it.

Offered for sale here
http://www.comeandseeicons.com/groups/drz19.htm

wonderful!!!  Thanks so much!  I will order it.

I see that they also have many icons for sale you wouldn't see on other websites! 

Offline Jason.Wike

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,046
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2011, 11:10:24 PM »
Saint Ninian was the Apostle to the Southern Picts and had missionary activity in Ayrshire. Also Saint Colm Cille (or Columba) is important for all of Scotland.

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,375
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2011, 12:01:06 AM »
Question:  Are Scots considered Germanic or Celtic?

Offline Jason.Wike

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,046
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2011, 01:41:34 AM »
Question:  Are Scots considered Germanic or Celtic?

Really... both. The "Scottish" identity came from Gaelic migrants from Ireland in the Roman era (which was also called Scotia at the time). Gaelic became predominate throughout Scotland (replacing the Brythonic language of the Picts, which would have been pretty similar) up till around the 1400's, and there was a Germanic presence in the South East (in addition to Norse settling all over the place and becoming Gaelicised). Up till then to be "Scottish" was to have a Gaelic identity, Scots were aware of and proud of their origins in Ireland.

About 15th century things started to change big time. The Germanic language spoken in Scotland, which was known as Inglis, became known as "Scots" (which used to refer to the Gaelic language) instead. Gaelic was now called Erse (Irish), and disparaged as "foreign." Gaelic, and the Gaelic identity, has spiralled out of use since then. To the point where in some historically Gaelic speaking areas you can find people with Gaelic names in town with Gaelic names who will assert Gaelic is foreign and they get grumpy when there are propositions to teach Gaelic and not Scots in schools.

So, Scots are a mixture of Gaelic and Germanic people. A Gaelic name, most of them only speak a Germanic language, and a culture which is a mix.

(Can you tell I used to want to go to college for Celtic Studies?)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 01:42:33 AM by Jason.Wike »

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,375
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2011, 09:02:46 AM »
Question:  Are Scots considered Germanic or Celtic?

Really... both. The "Scottish" identity came from Gaelic migrants from Ireland in the Roman era (which was also called Scotia at the time). Gaelic became predominate throughout Scotland (replacing the Brythonic language of the Picts, which would have been pretty similar) up till around the 1400's, and there was a Germanic presence in the South East (in addition to Norse settling all over the place and becoming Gaelicised). Up till then to be "Scottish" was to have a Gaelic identity, Scots were aware of and proud of their origins in Ireland.

About 15th century things started to change big time. The Germanic language spoken in Scotland, which was known as Inglis, became known as "Scots" (which used to refer to the Gaelic language) instead. Gaelic was now called Erse (Irish), and disparaged as "foreign." Gaelic, and the Gaelic identity, has spiralled out of use since then. To the point where in some historically Gaelic speaking areas you can find people with Gaelic names in town with Gaelic names who will assert Gaelic is foreign and they get grumpy when there are propositions to teach Gaelic and not Scots in schools.

So, Scots are a mixture of Gaelic and Germanic people. A Gaelic name, most of them only speak a Germanic language, and a culture which is a mix.

(Can you tell I used to want to go to college for Celtic Studies?)

yes, I most certainly can  ;)  Is the surname "Hardin" Celtic or Germanic?

Offline Jason.Wike

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,046
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2011, 06:46:48 PM »
Question:  Are Scots considered Germanic or Celtic?

Really... both. The "Scottish" identity came from Gaelic migrants from Ireland in the Roman era (which was also called Scotia at the time). Gaelic became predominate throughout Scotland (replacing the Brythonic language of the Picts, which would have been pretty similar) up till around the 1400's, and there was a Germanic presence in the South East (in addition to Norse settling all over the place and becoming Gaelicised). Up till then to be "Scottish" was to have a Gaelic identity, Scots were aware of and proud of their origins in Ireland.

About 15th century things started to change big time. The Germanic language spoken in Scotland, which was known as Inglis, became known as "Scots" (which used to refer to the Gaelic language) instead. Gaelic was now called Erse (Irish), and disparaged as "foreign." Gaelic, and the Gaelic identity, has spiralled out of use since then. To the point where in some historically Gaelic speaking areas you can find people with Gaelic names in town with Gaelic names who will assert Gaelic is foreign and they get grumpy when there are propositions to teach Gaelic and not Scots in schools.

So, Scots are a mixture of Gaelic and Germanic people. A Gaelic name, most of them only speak a Germanic language, and a culture which is a mix.

(Can you tell I used to want to go to college for Celtic Studies?)

yes, I most certainly can  ;)  Is the surname "Hardin" Celtic or Germanic?

Germanic, from northern England/Southern Scotland.

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,375
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2011, 06:55:01 PM »
Question:  Are Scots considered Germanic or Celtic?

Really... both. The "Scottish" identity came from Gaelic migrants from Ireland in the Roman era (which was also called Scotia at the time). Gaelic became predominate throughout Scotland (replacing the Brythonic language of the Picts, which would have been pretty similar) up till around the 1400's, and there was a Germanic presence in the South East (in addition to Norse settling all over the place and becoming Gaelicised). Up till then to be "Scottish" was to have a Gaelic identity, Scots were aware of and proud of their origins in Ireland.

About 15th century things started to change big time. The Germanic language spoken in Scotland, which was known as Inglis, became known as "Scots" (which used to refer to the Gaelic language) instead. Gaelic was now called Erse (Irish), and disparaged as "foreign." Gaelic, and the Gaelic identity, has spiralled out of use since then. To the point where in some historically Gaelic speaking areas you can find people with Gaelic names in town with Gaelic names who will assert Gaelic is foreign and they get grumpy when there are propositions to teach Gaelic and not Scots in schools.

So, Scots are a mixture of Gaelic and Germanic people. A Gaelic name, most of them only speak a Germanic language, and a culture which is a mix.

(Can you tell I used to want to go to college for Celtic Studies?)

yes, I most certainly can  ;)  Is the surname "Hardin" Celtic or Germanic?

Germanic, from northern England/Southern Scotland.

how interesting!!!  Thanks so much! 

I've even found my surname in an Ayrshire surname database.  I'm becoming quite proud of my heritage!

Offline biro

  • Excelsior
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,532
  • Leave me alone, I was only singing
    • Alaska Volcanoes
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: pre-schism western saints (from Scotland)
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2011, 08:40:25 PM »
St. Donald is from Scotland. I think there's an icon of him at the 'Come and See' icons site.

 :)

I wonder if you'll visit Scotland someday. I'm sure it's beautiful.   :angel:
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

--

And if I seem a little strange, well, that's because I am