mikeyseky
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« on: July 27, 2011, 09:33:18 PM » |
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is there any historical proofs that St.George Existed ??
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 09:41:20 PM » |
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I'm not trying to be snarky, but given that there were no pictures or videos back then, what types of historical proofs are you looking for? I assume that Christian hagiographies and such wouldn't suffice?
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mikeyseky
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 09:44:39 PM » |
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i dont know .. but iam sure that the Episode of slaying the Dragon is not True ...
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Volnutt
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 10:09:15 PM » |
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What's a dragon? Maybe it was some kind of cult that worshiped a crocodile (one of the possible identities of the Biblical Leviathan). In fact a ten foot long croc was just recently discovered. Scholars have numerous theories about the origin of dragon legends.
Perhaps these pagans were about to sacrifice the maiden and George came in and killed the croc.
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pasadi97
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 10:12:08 PM » |
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i dont know .. but iam sure that the Episode of slaying the Dragon is not True ...
Sure there was dragon as long as the word remained in many languages. In my understanding the evolutions says no dragon and man meet however we had dragon word before archeological science and in wide use and many pictures of dragons that existed supposedly "millions of years ago". |
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mikeyseky
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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 10:15:12 PM » |
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i don't believe the whole Dragon Episode .... i think it is kinda symbolic ....
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Volnutt
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 10:25:33 PM » |
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Many things can be symbolic while still having happened, Joseph's sojourn in Egypt for example is a type of Christ.
At any rate, I doubt secular historians of the day would have been inclined to write about one more "subversive" Christian in the army even if he took it on himself to bust up some provincial cult (even something like the My Lai Massacre would not even have raised an eyebrow in those days before civil rights unless the documenter thought he could use it for political point scoring), so I don't see a reason to expect corroboration outside the Church.
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celticfan1888
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 10:40:02 PM » |
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i dont know .. but iam sure that the Episode of slaying the Dragon is not True ...
I think it was probably a large reptilian of some sort, maybe some sort of crocodilian or some extinct relative of the Komodo Dragon? |
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Forgive my sins.
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Deacon Lance
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 11:17:55 PM » |
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Given that he is one of the few saints found in the calendar of every Church from antiquity I have no doubt that a Christian soldier named George was martyred under Diocletian. I see nothing wrong in seeing the knight/dragon imagery as symbolic of the struggle between St. George and Diocletian.
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My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
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mikeyseky
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 12:39:50 AM » |
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is there any scholary works on St.George life and Acts ?
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pasadi97
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2011, 03:17:41 AM » |
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St George miracles: 1. 3 brothers went to Mount Athos to establish a monastery. The Church was built and they put a piece of wood on the dimmension of icon and put the wood in Church . Then they prayed to God to discover which Siant will take care of Church. So they prayed and saw a Light comming and went to Church and St George was painted there. An bishop came and did not quite believe the story and put his finger on the nose of St George and could not take it out. An elder had a discovery from God to come and cut the finger since God told him that finger will stay there. And even today this icon has a part of finger there. Copy of icon and movie in Romanian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT8cgx2Ujak For every chain on the icon there is a miracle done to a believer. As a sign of happiness they attached the chains to the icon. St George is a powerfull saint that helps greatly and very quick. He is a military saint , I believe he was the leader of imperial guard. |
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« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 03:38:33 AM by pasadi97 »
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2011, 03:41:40 AM » |
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is there any scholary works on St.George life and Acts ?
I don't know which work to point to, but fwiw I found this bibliography which lists academic texts. |
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biro
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Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2011, 06:41:35 AM » |
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I think Deacon Lance has it right. I have also heard the dragon in the paintings described as a metaphor for sinfulness.
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Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be? Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied. http://spcasuncoast.org/ |
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Iconodule
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2011, 08:34:05 AM » |
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Dragons are cool and therefore real.
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"A riddle or the cricket's cry Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake Just ignore iconotools delusions. He is the biggest multiculturalist globalist there is due to his unfortunate background.
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2011, 11:25:38 AM » |
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is there any scholary works on St.George life and Acts ?
Probably. Remember that, when Christianity was legalized, there were many people who remembered the martyrdom of St. George. Churches were built in his name immediately. Since his death, he has been a very popular saint. The life of St. George and the lives of many martyrs contain actual recorded conversations between the saint and the judge. There is also the evidence of veneration by early Christians. Who is telling you he did not exist? |
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
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celticfan1888
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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2011, 03:30:25 PM » |
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Dragons are cool and therefore real.
Hobbits are cool too.  |
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Forgive my sins.
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Iconodule
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2011, 08:59:18 AM » |
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Dragons are cool and therefore real.
Hobbits are cool too. No, hobbits are lame. |
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"A riddle or the cricket's cry Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake Just ignore iconotools delusions. He is the biggest multiculturalist globalist there is due to his unfortunate background.
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Volnutt
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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2011, 09:24:31 AM » |
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is there any scholary works on St.George life and Acts ?
Probably. Remember that, when Christianity was legalized, there were many people who remembered the martyrdom of St. George. Churches were built in his name immediately. Since his death, he has been a very popular saint. The life of St. George and the lives of many martyrs contain actual recorded conversations between the saint and the judge. There is also the evidence of veneration by early Christians. Who is telling you he did not exist? This is the main criteria, how soon their veneration appears after they're were supposed to have lived, which historians use in deciding the probability a Saint existed. Saints Marina and Catherine for example are only found in the record several centuries after the fact. Does this mean they did not exist? By no means. It just casts some doubt on whether they did. In contrast, I don't think anyone questions whether a Saint like Kyriaki of Nicomedia existed since her veneration is widely and amply attested not long after her martyrdom. |
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bogdan
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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2011, 10:44:30 AM » |
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I have no doubt that St George exists. But does it matter? I am reminded of this story from Elder Paisios (+1994): I remember there was an amicable elderly monk in the Esphigmenou Monastery who was so sincere that he thought the Ascension of Christ was a saint. He would count his rosary and say: «Saint of God, take pray for us»! Once, a brother in the Elderly monk's home was ill and he didn't have anything to give him to eat. In two steps he goes downstairs, opens the window which looked at the sea, hangs out his hands to the sea and says: «Saint Ascension, give me a fish for my brother». And straight away – Oh! A miracle! Such a large fish jumps from the sea into his hands. The others, who saw him, were astonished. He was looking at them with a calm smile in his face. It was like saying: «What's so strange that you see? » We, the others said, have knowledge, we know when a Saint is celebrating, how another Saint was tormented, when the Ascension happened and where it happened and how, and still we can't have such a little fish! These are the strange things of spiritual life, which the logic of the intellectuals, who have within their mind themselves and not God, can't conceive because they have inside them the barren social knowledge along with the secular spiritual illness and the Holy Spirit is missing. http://www.esphigmenou.gr/index_en.php?mid=5&sid=4&newsid=21 |
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celticfan1888
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« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2011, 06:24:44 PM » |
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Dragons are cool and therefore real.
Hobbits are cool too. No, hobbits are lame. Heretic!!! |
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Forgive my sins.
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