Author Topic: Georgian tradition  (Read 2835 times)

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Offline Alpo

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Georgian tradition
« on: July 27, 2011, 02:16:19 PM »
Has the Georgian church always been a Byzantine church or did it adopt Byzantine tradition at some point of her history? It seems to have a little different traditions of chant and architecture so I wonder whether her has had her own liturgical etc. traditions as well.
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Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Georgian tradition
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 02:21:27 PM »
Has the Georgian church always been a Byzantine church or did it adopt Byzantine tradition at some point of her history? It seems to have a little different traditions of chant and architecture so I wonder whether her has had her own liturgical etc. traditions as well.


According to Britannica Encyclopedia, Georgia remained under the influence of neighbouring Armenia (the Armenian Apostolic Church) and in the ecclesiastical sphere of the Apostolic See of Antioch[2]. The Georgian Orthodox Church became autocephalous (independent), granted by the Eastern Roman emperor Zeno (474–491) with the consent of the patriarch of Antioch, Peter the Fuller. In 466 when the Patriarchate of Antioch elevated the Bishop of Mtskheta to the rank of Catholicos of Kartli. The total independence from the Armenian Apostolic Church was reached in the 7th century after which it joined the Eastern Orthodoxy and has become part of the wider Eastern Orthodox Church[1] and was historically influenced by the church of the Byzantine Empire. In 1010, the Catholicos of Kartli was elevated to the honor of Patriarch. From then on, the premier hierarch of the Georgian Orthodox Church carried the official title of Catholicos-Patriarch of All Georgia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_Orthodox_Church
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Georgian tradition
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 02:40:55 PM »
Has the Georgian church always been a Byzantine church or did it adopt Byzantine tradition at some point of her history? It seems to have a little different traditions of chant and architecture so I wonder whether her has had her own liturgical etc. traditions as well.

If you look at the ancient map of Georgia

you see that Iberia/Kartli was outside the Empire of the Romans (and within the orbit of Armenian and Iran), while Lazica was within (providing the ancestors of a number of Emperors of the Romans). So there has always been influence from Constantinople in what is now Georgia, but not always across all of what is now Georgia.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Georgian tradition
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 02:45:56 PM »
Georgia began in the Roman sphere of influence, tarried in the Armenian/Persian sphere for one or two hundred years between King St. Vakhtang Gorgasali and Catholicos Patriarch St. Kirion, and was also bounced between Rome and Persia for awhile, became independent, fell to the Mongols, and then was caught between the Turks and the Persians.

The Georgian Church was begun by people from Constantinople, Jerusalem and Antioch, and even has Apostolic origins through Sts. Andrew and Simeon.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Georgian tradition
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 02:48:52 PM »
I should clarify Western and Eastern Georgia. Western Georgia was traditionally in the Greco-Roman world, and Eastern Georgia in the Persian world.

Some Armenian historians claim that St. Nino sent Georgians to St. Gregory the Illuminator for ordination, but this is not corroborated by contemporary sources, and the timeline is unlikely.
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Offline Gorazd

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Re: Georgian tradition
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 02:55:37 PM »
The Georgian church actually has polyphonic chant. Seems to be adopted from Russia in the 19th century.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Georgian tradition
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 02:58:22 PM »
The Georgian church actually has polyphonic chant. Seems to be adopted from Russia in the 19th century.

No. Georgian polyphony is not at all like Russian polyphony, and is actually very old and related to Georgian folk music.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Georgian tradition
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2011, 07:15:57 PM »
I just came across this, Eastward bound: travel and travellers, 1050-1550 By Rosamund Allen:
Quote
The Georgians, for example, are distinguishable from Greeks for using unleavened bread in the Eucharist, like Latins, but are like Greeks in not elevating the host.
http://books.google.com/books?id=LsqfhL6U1ykC&pg=PA95&dq=%22The+Georgians,+for+example,+are+distinguishable+from+Greeks%22&hl=en&ei=S-A1TvD4Gue1sQKJkqzrCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22The%20Georgians%2C%20for%20example%2C%20are%20distinguishable%20from%20Greeks%22&f=false
Interesting, as the Armenians are the only ones to use unleavened bread.
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Offline mike

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Re: Georgian tradition
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2011, 03:31:58 AM »
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Georgian tradition
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2011, 08:20:11 AM »
The Georgian church actually has polyphonic chant. Seems to be adopted from Russia in the 19th century.

Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElWrWVcD8Qw

I imagine it sounds pretty alien to Russian ears as to the rest of us

Offline mabsoota

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Re: Georgian tradition
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2011, 10:37:49 AM »
interesting, the greeks and georgians don't elevate the host?
the copts (and i assume the syrians, as we borrowed lots of rites from each other) do elevate the consecrated bread right at the beginning of the consecration and before the prayer of the descent of the Holy Spirit.