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Author Topic: Speaking of Catechisms  (Read 1253 times) Average Rating: 0
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elijahmaria
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« on: July 27, 2011, 12:37:51 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881410403/ref=ox_ya_os_product

Is anyone familiar with this two book set and do you know any parish in the U.S. that may be using these texts for catechizing inquirers or adult Orthodox believers?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 12:38:06 PM by elijahmaria » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 12:44:32 PM »

Never heard of it, though it looks quite interesting.  I may have to check it out!

We use the Light for Life series (http://www.amazon.com/Light-Life-Part-Mystery-Believed/dp/1887158073/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311785002&sr=1-3) - there are 3 books in the series and it has been highly praised by the handful of people who've actually bought it from our gift shop.  Grin
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 12:53:06 PM »

Never heard of it, though it looks quite interesting.  I may have to check it out!

We use the Light for Life series (http://www.amazon.com/Light-Life-Part-Mystery-Believed/dp/1887158073/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311785002&sr=1-3) - there are 3 books in the series and it has been highly praised by the handful of people who've actually bought it from our gift shop.  Grin

I've been using those for years.  I like the narrative style though I think the emphasis might be improved on a good bit.  I like the idea of building the catechism around the liturgical cycle though that gets messy if you are looking for a methodical and systematic presentation of doctrine as it is done in the CCC.  Nevertheless there's no rule that limits the number of catechisms one can use with great profit...so... Smiley...I'm curious to see what is what with yet one more...two more
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 12:55:42 PM »

The newer ones which you posted - they look like they are more colorful.  Wonder if they have more pictures in them?  That would definitely appeal to the younger people I'm catechising these days.  Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 12:56:01 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881410403/ref=ox_ya_os_product

Is anyone familiar with this two book set and do you know any parish in the U.S. that may be using these texts for catechizing inquirers or adult Orthodox believers?

Yes!  I have it at home.  Used it during my catechesis in the Byzantine Catholic Church at the recommendation of my priest.  At the time I found it somewhat confusing and wasn't very pleased with it.  I can't now recall the details but I remember thinking that it was organized in a way that works differently from my simple mind.  When I finally got hold of the CCC, I was much happier.  It is, however, a lovely set of books.  I also remember using Fr. Thomas Hopko's 4 volume set, that I liked very much at the time.

JM
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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 01:07:27 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881410403/ref=ox_ya_os_product

Is anyone familiar with this two book set and do you know any parish in the U.S. that may be using these texts for catechizing inquirers or adult Orthodox believers?

Yes!  I have it at home.  Used it during my catechesis in the Byzantine Catholic Church at the recommendation of my priest.  At the time I found it somewhat confusing and wasn't very pleased with it.  I can't now recall the details but I remember thinking that it was organized in a way that works differently from my simple mind.  When I finally got hold of the CCC, I was much happier.  It is, however, a lovely set of books.  I also remember using Fr. Thomas Hopko's 4 volume set, that I liked very much at the time.

JM

Thanks so much!!  I am prepared to confront the Clement Clutter!!  Smiley 

I am accustomed to his way of thinking and presenting from some of his other texts.  But it is good to hear that you liked it in other ways.  I don't know the Hopko set at all but I am not much impressed with many of Father Tom's estimations of things so I think that is why I've passed up the opportunity over the years.  I don't know, personally, any parishes who use his set but I'd be interested to hear about that.

It is interesting to know that you encountered "Living God" in a Byzantine Catholic Parish.  Pleasantly interesting that is...
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 01:14:12 PM »

The newer ones which you posted - they look like they are more colorful.  Wonder if they have more pictures in them?  That would definitely appeal to the younger people I'm catechising these days.  Smiley

It says there are icons and illustrations.  That would be a good addition to working with young people...even adults respond positively to images.  I would think that it would be pretty coherent a presentation of pics and texts since the organizing principle is the liturgical year...but I'd have to see them before I could say for sure.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 01:14:37 PM by elijahmaria » Logged

J Michael
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 01:16:37 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881410403/ref=ox_ya_os_product

Is anyone familiar with this two book set and do you know any parish in the U.S. that may be using these texts for catechizing inquirers or adult Orthodox believers?

Yes!  I have it at home.  Used it during my catechesis in the Byzantine Catholic Church at the recommendation of my priest.  At the time I found it somewhat confusing and wasn't very pleased with it.  I can't now recall the details but I remember thinking that it was organized in a way that works differently from my simple mind.  When I finally got hold of the CCC, I was much happier.  It is, however, a lovely set of books.  I also remember using Fr. Thomas Hopko's 4 volume set, that I liked very much at the time.

JM

Thanks so much!!  I am prepared to confront the Clement Clutter!!  Smiley 

I am accustomed to his way of thinking and presenting from some of his other texts.  But it is good to hear that you liked it in other ways.  I don't know the Hopko set at all but I am not much impressed with many of Father Tom's estimations of things so I think that is why I've passed up the opportunity over the years.  I don't know, personally, any parishes who use his set but I'd be interested to hear about that.

It is interesting to know that you encountered "Living God" in a Byzantine Catholic Parish.  Pleasantly interesting that is...

Ahh...and I've also encountered Him in Roman Catholic parishes, OCA parishes, and Antiochian Orthodox parishes  Wink Smiley!

I think my priest, who seemed a little bit out of his depth at the time (I was the first and only convert he ever had to catechize, poor man  Grin), thought "Living God" was the only catechism available.  Or maybe the only one I would understand  Cheesy

I'm not sure if the Hopko set is still in print, although Light and Life might have it.  

JM
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 02:06:13 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881410403/ref=ox_ya_os_product

Is anyone familiar with this two book set and do you know any parish in the U.S. that may be using these texts for catechizing inquirers or adult Orthodox believers?

Yes!  I have it at home.  Used it during my catechesis in the Byzantine Catholic Church at the recommendation of my priest.  At the time I found it somewhat confusing and wasn't very pleased with it.  I can't now recall the details but I remember thinking that it was organized in a way that works differently from my simple mind.  When I finally got hold of the CCC, I was much happier.  It is, however, a lovely set of books.  I also remember using Fr. Thomas Hopko's 4 volume set, that I liked very much at the time.

JM

Thanks so much!!  I am prepared to confront the Clement Clutter!!  Smiley 

I am accustomed to his way of thinking and presenting from some of his other texts.  But it is good to hear that you liked it in other ways.  I don't know the Hopko set at all but I am not much impressed with many of Father Tom's estimations of things so I think that is why I've passed up the opportunity over the years.  I don't know, personally, any parishes who use his set but I'd be interested to hear about that.

It is interesting to know that you encountered "Living God" in a Byzantine Catholic Parish.  Pleasantly interesting that is...

Ahh...and I've also encountered Him in Roman Catholic parishes, OCA parishes, and Antiochian Orthodox parishes  Wink Smiley!

I think my priest, who seemed a little bit out of his depth at the time (I was the first and only convert he ever had to catechize, poor man  Grin), thought "Living God" was the only catechism available.  Or maybe the only one I would understand  Cheesy

I'm not sure if the Hopko set is still in print, although Light and Life might have it.  

JM

Good to know the range of jurisdictions using it.  Now I am even more curious to know more of the reactions from those who taught with it and learned from it.
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2011, 02:19:26 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881410403/ref=ox_ya_os_product

Is anyone familiar with this two book set and do you know any parish in the U.S. that may be using these texts for catechizing inquirers or adult Orthodox believers?

Yes!  I have it at home.  Used it during my catechesis in the Byzantine Catholic Church at the recommendation of my priest.  At the time I found it somewhat confusing and wasn't very pleased with it.  I can't now recall the details but I remember thinking that it was organized in a way that works differently from my simple mind.  When I finally got hold of the CCC, I was much happier.  It is, however, a lovely set of books.  I also remember using Fr. Thomas Hopko's 4 volume set, that I liked very much at the time.

JM

Thanks so much!!  I am prepared to confront the Clement Clutter!!  Smiley 

I am accustomed to his way of thinking and presenting from some of his other texts.  But it is good to hear that you liked it in other ways.  I don't know the Hopko set at all but I am not much impressed with many of Father Tom's estimations of things so I think that is why I've passed up the opportunity over the years.  I don't know, personally, any parishes who use his set but I'd be interested to hear about that.

It is interesting to know that you encountered "Living God" in a Byzantine Catholic Parish.  Pleasantly interesting that is...

Ahh...and I've also encountered Him in Roman Catholic parishes, OCA parishes, and Antiochian Orthodox parishes  Wink Smiley!

I think my priest, who seemed a little bit out of his depth at the time (I was the first and only convert he ever had to catechize, poor man  Grin), thought "Living God" was the only catechism available.  Or maybe the only one I would understand  Cheesy

I'm not sure if the Hopko set is still in print, although Light and Life might have it.  

JM

Good to know the range of jurisdictions using it.  Now I am even more curious to know more of the reactions from those who taught with it and learned from it.


 Sad Sad Sad

My play on words failed.  What I meant was that I have encountered the Living God/Real Presence in all of those jurisdictions, *not* that particular catechism.  I've only come across that at the church where I was baptized, and nowhere else.  Oh well......

Forgive me if I have misled you.

JM
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 02:32:45 PM »

I'm not sure if the Hopko set is still in print, although Light and Life might have it.  

Yes, it is, from St Vlad's Press. It's also available online, for free.

For adults, I prefer the Hopko books, although I also own the "Living God" set; it would work for teens.

But where are the colorful icons of which the amazon reviewer speaks? Certainly, not in my copy. The set I obtained from amazon has few illustrations--none in color. Nevertheless, it is Clement's catechism.

fyi: I ran into the Catechism of St. Philaret (Drozdov) of Moscow recently online:

"The large Russian Catechism of Philaret, approved by the holy Synod is now the most authoritative doctrinal standard of the orthodox Græco-Russian Church, and has practically superseded the older Catechism, or Orthodox Confession of Mogila. "
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 02:36:42 PM by sainthieu » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2011, 03:09:58 PM »

http://books.google.com/books?id=kMX0kBiEmOwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+living+god&hl=en&ei=6l8wTqnoMaTb0QHEmaWGAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

A similar one is "The Incarnate God"
http://books.google.com/books?id=QpVNuPwnIIcC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

I can't remember, but one shows Vatican influence (defines the Brothers of the Lord as cousins, against Orthodox Tradition, and following St Jerome celebacy centric, innovating, explanation).
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2011, 03:30:21 PM »

I can't remember, but one shows Vatican influence (defines the Brothers of the Lord as cousins, against Orthodox Tradition, and following St Jerome celebacy centric, innovating, explanation).

Eeeeeeeeeeeeek!!   Grin Grin  Say it ain't so!!!!!   Grin Grin

I would doubt it's the one by Olivier Clement, eminent *Orthodox* (of the Parisian school) theologian.  But ya never know.

JM
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2011, 10:43:14 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0881410403/ref=ox_ya_os_product

Is anyone familiar with this two book set and do you know any parish in the U.S. that may be using these texts for catechizing inquirers or adult Orthodox believers?

Yes!  I have it at home.  Used it during my catechesis in the Byzantine Catholic Church at the recommendation of my priest.  At the time I found it somewhat confusing and wasn't very pleased with it.  I can't now recall the details but I remember thinking that it was organized in a way that works differently from my simple mind.  When I finally got hold of the CCC, I was much happier.  It is, however, a lovely set of books.  I also remember using Fr. Thomas Hopko's 4 volume set, that I liked very much at the time.

JM

Thanks so much!!  I am prepared to confront the Clement Clutter!!  Smiley 

I am accustomed to his way of thinking and presenting from some of his other texts.  But it is good to hear that you liked it in other ways.  I don't know the Hopko set at all but I am not much impressed with many of Father Tom's estimations of things so I think that is why I've passed up the opportunity over the years.  I don't know, personally, any parishes who use his set but I'd be interested to hear about that.

It is interesting to know that you encountered "Living God" in a Byzantine Catholic Parish.  Pleasantly interesting that is...

Ahh...and I've also encountered Him in Roman Catholic parishes, OCA parishes, and Antiochian Orthodox parishes  Wink Smiley!

I think my priest, who seemed a little bit out of his depth at the time (I was the first and only convert he ever had to catechize, poor man  Grin), thought "Living God" was the only catechism available.  Or maybe the only one I would understand  Cheesy

I'm not sure if the Hopko set is still in print, although Light and Life might have it.  

JM

Good to know the range of jurisdictions using it.  Now I am even more curious to know more of the reactions from those who taught with it and learned from it.


 Sad Sad Sad

My play on words failed.  What I meant was that I have encountered the Living God/Real Presence in all of those jurisdictions, *not* that particular catechism.  I've only come across that at the church where I was baptized, and nowhere else.  Oh well......

Forgive me if I have misled you.

JM

LOL...sometimes it is fun to be misled...even if I was a day late and a few bits short...LOL
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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2011, 10:45:17 PM »

The folks who are producing the "Eastern Orthodox Bible" are also working on an extensive revision/ expansion of St. Philaret's Longer Catechism: http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/catechismorthodoxchurch
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« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2011, 10:46:50 PM »

I'm not sure if the Hopko set is still in print, although Light and Life might have it.  

Yes, it is, from St Vlad's Press. It's also available online, for free.

For adults, I prefer the Hopko books, although I also own the "Living God" set; it would work for teens.

But where are the colorful icons of which the amazon reviewer speaks? Certainly, not in my copy. The set I obtained from amazon has few illustrations--none in color. Nevertheless, it is Clement's catechism.

fyi: I ran into the Catechism of St. Philaret (Drozdov) of Moscow recently online:

"The large Russian Catechism of Philaret, approved by the holy Synod is now the most authoritative doctrinal standard of the orthodox Græco-Russian Church, and has practically superseded the older Catechism, or Orthodox Confession of Mogila. "

Interesting about the icons not being in the English translation.  Wonder if they are in the original French version?
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« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2011, 11:04:22 PM »

Another official-ish catechism is the Sacred Catechism of the Orthodox Church written by the playwright Demetrios Vernardakis, which was approved by the Holy Synod of Constantinople. Constantine Cavarnos of blessed memory published an edition of this with some nice supplementary material. It's short and pretty basic but it fulfills its purpose well.
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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2011, 07:04:31 AM »

I purchased the 2 vol. Living God catechism for an intelligent adult enquirer whose first language is not English and who has no prior knowledge of Christianity - she's Chinese and is not familiar with any Old Testament stories or even events in the life of Christ.

At a cursory glance through, I did notice a couple of points that suggested it could be more appropriate for Byzantine Catholics than Eastern Orthodox; for example, chrismation was described as being a direct equivalent of confirmation.

It really was too complex and too wordy (and the black & white illustrations were a big disappointment after the attractive cover). However, I have yet to find  a more suitable text for this person, and would be glad of any alternative suggestions.
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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2011, 07:23:28 AM »


I purchased the 2 vol. Living God catechism for an intelligent adult enquirer whose first language is not English and who has no prior knowledge of Christianity - she's Chinese and is not familiar with any Old Testament stories or even events in the life of Christ.

Don't know if this would be helpful....

"Chinese Prayer Book"
http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/2006/01/new-chinese-russian-prayerbook-now-in.html

I know there is an active publishing press for Orthodox material but cannot remember how to find it.

Two useful contacts for Chinese Orthodox material:

Fr John Whiteford
frjohnwhiteford at yahoo.com

Nelson Chin
Fr John would have an e-mail address for him
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« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2011, 07:24:46 AM »

Btw, I recall reading that MP is trying to compile some kind of catechism. Does anyone know anything about this project and how it is going?
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« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2011, 07:27:17 AM »

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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2011, 07:34:57 AM »

A bunch of Chinese catechetical material is available here: http://www.orthodox.cn/catechesis/index_en.html

Also look at the years of the materials- I think the older stuff (late 19th, early 20th century) is mostly in classical Chinese, but the more recent translations are modern and probably more useful to your friend.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 07:58:34 AM by Iconodule » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2011, 07:50:03 AM »

Thank you, Irish Hermit and Iconodule. Those links look very helpful. I will direct her to them and she can pick & choose according to her interests and her preference for traditional or simplified characters.
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« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2011, 07:54:04 AM »

Sorry, the link I provided wasn't quite right- I've changed it to the right one. The Chinese texts are in the bottom half of the page.
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