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Author Topic: The Rise of Orthodoxy?  (Read 3762 times) Average Rating: 0
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CBGardner
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« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2011, 12:40:14 PM »

People seem to be saying that they are drawn to Orthodoxy for two main reasons: its claim to historical continuity (thus being the only true church); and its æsthetic attractions. Their third reason seems to be the opposite, not why Orthodoxy drew them, but why Evangelicalism repulsed them: which is not in the least surprising in view of its weird mutations you often refer to (which can be observed here in Britain too, though perhaps to a lesser extent as yet).

What I don't seem to have read in the above posts - unless I missed it, for some are very long - is the way Orthodoxy allows more mystery concerning God and religion, whereas Evangelicalism seems to claim to have all the 'cut-and-dried' answers; though I suppose this could be included in the third reason in my first paragraph. The place and presence of mystery - is the correct word the apophatic approach to God? - is attractive, after one has moved for decades among brash, self-assured Christians who know all the answers.

(Not, of course, that one can't give space for mystery and still remain a Baptist!  Smiley)

Yeah I think you make a good point. I look at it like this: The Orthodox Church is the One, True Church and I can have faith in that and rest on that, so we don't need to sound so self-assured with every statement we make. There can be some ambiguity because ultimately we know we're in the right place. With Protestantism, there's no historical connection or anything to make a good claim to being THE Church, so they have to have very detailed and exhaustive exegesis on everything from how Christ was God and Man to when the end of the life will come to try and prove they know what they're talking about. That kinda gushed out of my head so sorry if it makes no sense haha.
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« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2011, 01:57:22 PM »

The music, the incense, the icons, the old churches (forgive the holidays photos!) - these things are attractive. Their attractiveness has (I think) nothing to do with whether or not they contain or convey truth, but there is little doubt of their drawing power.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 01:58:48 PM by David Young » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2011, 02:42:43 PM »

I have a friend who's a "mover" in the emergent movement and he wanted to come visit the local church with me. So I took him and he loved the liturgy. Then we started talking about doctrine afterwards (with the Deacon) and he was shocked at how formal it was.

Now he wants to incorporate elements of the service into a "modern 21st century applicable way."
Is he part of the emergent "house church" movement, as well?

Well, not the "house church" movement necessarily. Just mostly the emergent movement and the more heretical part of the movement (the part that denies the deity of Jesus, or at least flirts with it, while he also considers pantheism).
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« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2011, 05:12:29 PM »

The music, the incense, the icons, the old churches (forgive the holidays photos!) - these things are attractive. Their attractiveness has (I think) nothing to do with whether or not they contain or convey truth, but there is little doubt of their drawing power.

Yep. Spiritual voyarism. It's hot to watch.

I became Orthodox for the smoke machines. It's like being at a rock concert without the guitars.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 05:13:29 PM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
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« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2011, 06:51:33 PM »

People seem to be saying that they are drawn to Orthodoxy for two main reasons: its claim to historical continuity (thus being the only true church); and its æsthetic attractions. Their third reason seems to be the opposite, not why Orthodoxy drew them, but why Evangelicalism repulsed them: which is not in the least surprising in view of its weird mutations you often refer to (which can be observed here in Britain too, though perhaps to a lesser extent as yet).

What I don't seem to have read in the above posts - unless I missed it, for some are very long - is the way Orthodoxy allows more mystery concerning God and religion, whereas Evangelicalism seems to claim to have all the 'cut-and-dried' answers; though I suppose this could be included in the third reason in my first paragraph. The place and presence of mystery - is the correct word the apophatic approach to God? - is attractive, after one has moved for decades among brash, self-assured Christians who know all the answers.

(Not, of course, that one can't give space for mystery and still remain a Baptist!  Smiley)

I think there is quite a bit of truth to this. In fact, much of what you say is what has drawn me towards Orthodoxy.

However, what has also done it is - ironically enough - my pursuit of philosophy and logic. For a while I was at odds with many of my Baptist friends (I was and am an odd Baptist) because I would reason through some of our beliefs and go, "Well this isn't right." Then by looking at Scripture and examining the ancient Church, I deducted that we should believe x. I did this with a number of beliefs and for a while pondered whether or not I was just a heretic lacking the power of the Spirit.

Then I began working at a place where the owners and vast majority of the office staff were Orthodox. One of them graduated from Holy Cross in fact. So he and I began having multiple discussions about Orthodox theology, because I was interested to learn something new. What struck me is that every belief I reasoned to was already believed in the Orthodox Church (or I was at least close to it, enough that it was hard to tell a difference). Now certainly there were and are some extras that I disagreed with or had not considered, but for the most part much what I thought a Church should believe was already believed by the Orthodox Church.

To me, I read that as being nothing special in me, but instead the Holy Spirit guiding me along a path, one I'm still on. So the main draw to Orthodoxy isn't that I'm a disgruntled Protestant (though I am that in some ways...part of the reason I haven't converted to Orthodoxy is my fear that it may be out of bitterness), but instead that I fell in love with the teachings and way of life before I new there was a beautiful structure in place that already held them.

But one of the conclusions I have is that if Orthodoxy holds Truth within, then it holds Hope as well, for the two are one in the same.
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« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2011, 06:42:34 AM »

I was at odds with many of my Baptist friends... because I would reason through some of our beliefs and go, "Well this isn't right." Then by looking at Scripture and examining the ancient Church, I deducted that we should believe x. I did this with a number of beliefs 

Replacing your word ancient with a word that would include the ancient and more modern church (say, down to the 18th century at least, and probably on to the present), you could say much the same about me. But as Baptists we have liberty to do this; as Orthodox, I suspect we would not. Locking horns theologically with some Orthodox who post on this Forum has made me think through some of my beliefs rather thoroughly, and although I remain persuaded that it is right to stay Baptist, I feel there is a good deal we could learn from our Orthodox brethren.
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