Author Topic: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus  (Read 2505 times)

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Offline pasadi97

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It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« on: July 26, 2011, 02:03:46 PM »
It is easier to live what people believe to be a Christian life outside the Church established by Jesus.

If you are outside Eastern orthodox Church you are there because you put you trust in people: your rationalizing, texts from your Church, friends telling you, curses done by people and such however you DID NOT PRAY TO GOD TO SHOW YOU THE TRUE CHURCH AND TO HELP YOU MOVE TO THE TRUE CHURCH. Putting your strengths in people even in yourself is debuked in Old testament saying something like : Cursed is the one that puts his hope in man and I add, he can suffer dearly at judgement.

AM I RIGHT? This has to change today for your good so please please please say the prayer at the end of the message and let God lead yourself and people from your family.

I can see the memories calling you to stay where you are. A feeling of betrayal for family, country, continent and other things. Every religion has punishments for leaving going to curses in islam and other religion. So the idea is that is hard and I can understand that.Anyhow, is hard.
It becames easier if we think that religion is about God and about the way let by God for salvation. So if only concern is to be closer to God then going to the Church established by Jesus can be easier. Jesus did establish his Church not in Alexandria, Rome, Erevan, Berlin, Washington, London but in Jerusalem the city of Melchisedec. and that Church today is in Eastern orthodox Church.The bariers for joining the Church established by Jesus are miracles that happen in your Church, family ties, some texts that reason well in your view and others. Every Church has miracles , for example Jesus let people drive demons with his name irrespective of religion. Jesus did not say only EOC will do that. prayers to God are answered in many religions .Friends Country and continent can not move you into Heaven only God can. So you need to find the Church true in the eyes of God. If you are not in Eastern Orthodox Church you are here because you did not ask God about true Church and yopu did not ask God to move you to true Church in his eyes without pain but with hapiness. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THIS CAN COST YOU DEARLY AT JUDGEMENT. Your relatives and country will have a chance to make it right if you choose right.So the soluition is this prayer, I did a prayer when I was trying to becopkme protestant and God let me know which Church is true in his eyes:
Dear God, please force me to salvation and together with me as much as  possible from humanity. Also please let me all religions as you see them and to know the true Church in your eyes and please move myself and as many people as possible to this Church without pain or anger however with love and happiness. Please also let as many people know the way you see all religions regarding salvation and the true Church in your eyes and also please help them move to the True Church in your eyes without pain or struggle however with love and happiness. Please make me and as much of humanity as possible to have what you know we need for all eternities. Amen.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 02:14:45 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline John of the North

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 02:10:30 PM »
Do you have something to discuss, or are you pontificating??
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Offline theistgal

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 03:18:23 PM »
I've asked God many times to move me to the True Church without pain and with happiness.  So far, His answer has been: "Stay where you are for now; I'll get back to you!"  :laugh:
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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 03:27:14 PM »
Do you have something to discuss, or are you pontificating??

Pontificating?  Isn't that a RC thing?   ;)

I've asked God many times to move me to the True Church without pain and with happiness.  So far, His answer has been: "Stay where you are for now; I'll get back to you!"  :laugh:

How do you know that was God speaking to you and not the evil one trying to keep you away from God?

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Offline Wyatt

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 03:35:36 PM »
How do you know that was God speaking to you and not the evil one trying to keep you away from God?
How does anyone know this?

Offline stavros_388

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2011, 04:22:55 PM »
Quote
If you are outside Eastern orthodox Church you are there because you put you trust in people: your rationalizing, texts from your Church, friends telling you, curses done by people and such however you DID NOT PRAY TO GOD TO SHOW YOU THE TRUE CHURCH AND TO HELP YOU MOVE TO THE TRUE CHURCH.


I did, and it backfired (at first). After first encountering the Bible as an adult, I prayed fervently for God to bring me to His True Church. Days later I met a lady on the bus reading a bible. I struck up conversation with her and she invited me to her church. I was so excited! Then it turned out she was my next door neighbor in a big city. This must be it, I thought. And at first, it seemed perfect. I spent about 3 weeks at her church until I concluded that it was a dangerous, soul-sucking cult.
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Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 05:08:05 PM »
How do you know that was God speaking to you and not the evil one trying to keep you away from God?
How does anyone know this?
.

It's good that we can't be absolutely sure of that. Because those who are absolutely sure prove that, even if they have, at any point, heard God, now they are consumed by presumption and arrogance.

Said that, discernment is a gift of the Holy Spirit. We can ask for it, or have advice from someone who has.

For me, information, "intellectual reasons" are enough to take a decision. When I understood "just" intellectually, that the Orthodox Church is spiritually, physically undividedly and exclusevily, the Church of Christ, *then* the step of faith came. But for some people the intellectual or informational path is not the one that gains their trust. All I can say is that after one knows something is true, the person has to act on it. Any voice that says otherwise is certainly not from He who is the Way, Truth and Life.
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Offline TristanCross

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 05:32:53 PM »
It is easier to live what people believe to be a Christian life outside the Church established by Jesus.

Of course. It would be so much easier for myself in Protestantism and to say that I'm saved by faith alone. But, that's not true. In fact, I'm going to hell, but that isn't stopping me from the Orthodox Church. Until I die, I won't stop trying, even if my efforts are in vain.
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 07:11:01 PM »
I've asked God many times to move me to the True Church without pain and with happiness.  So far, His answer has been: "Stay where you are for now; I'll get back to you!"  :laugh:

Maybe this is the time you can move on. Orthodox Byzantine is living Orthodox outside Orthodox Church. It does not make much sense.

My experience is this. I wanted to become protestant because I was thinking God is there and I knew the verse: If you love your parents more than me you are not worthy of me. So I said, God is there because I see the works, there is where I go, after God. However there were 30 000 denominations and I could not buy One Truth = 30 000 truths conflicting. So I said, now I have to find the protestant denomination that has truth.

So I was thinking myself, would it be the Church with most people? Arianism had that and was not the true Church.
Would be the one with best buildings? Arianism had that and was not the true Church.
Fortunately I had the idea to ask God.Dear God please show me the true Church and on and on and once I heard a thought, You are in the true Church and this is why I send Holy Light there every year.

How I can be sure it was God? Somehow I am sure.

Also I read that muslims, many of them , asked God to tell them the truth and Jesus came to them in dreams and told, Christianity is the true religion.

Somehow God is saying knock and it will be open ask and it will be given so ask and God will respond in a way it is understandable to you and your experience. I am sure if you ask God to move you without pain to the new religion, God will move you without pain. Somehow out of blue something will happen that will make you go to the best religion.

So continue praying and God will tell you when to jump. Maybe now you have to solve other problems or there is something that God knows this is not the appropriate time to jump. Maybe God wiil do some work that will make things easier. You may want to prepare people around , see how they will react to you jumping so it will have happy ending as you asked. If people around you love you, then they will not separate you from God or best religion.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 07:28:37 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2011, 07:18:12 PM »
Quote
If you are outside Eastern orthodox Church you are there because you put you trust in people: your rationalizing, texts from your Church, friends telling you, curses done by people and such however you DID NOT PRAY TO GOD TO SHOW YOU THE TRUE CHURCH AND TO HELP YOU MOVE TO THE TRUE CHURCH.


I did, and it backfired (at first). After first encountering the Bible as an adult, I prayed fervently for God to bring me to His True Church. Days later I met a lady on the bus reading a bible. I struck up conversation with her and she invited me to her church. I was so excited! Then it turned out she was my next door neighbor in a big city. This must be it, I thought. And at first, it seemed perfect. I spent about 3 weeks at her church until I concluded that it was a dangerous, soul-sucking cult.

But right now you are to the True Church aren't you. So the prayer was answered, not in 3 seconds, not without stops in other parts however in the end everything is right.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 07:18:48 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2011, 07:34:18 PM »
It is easier to live what people believe to be a Christian life outside the Church established by Jesus.

Of course. It would be so much easier for myself in Protestantism and to say that I'm saved by faith alone. But, that's not true. In fact, I'm going to hell, but that isn't stopping me from the Orthodox Church. Until I die, I won't stop trying, even if my efforts are in vain.

I know is hard anyhow it may be harder than I think . You can pray to God to make transition easier to you, your family and to people around you.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 07:35:20 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2011, 07:43:37 PM »
This is a movie where a man Khalil asked Jesus to tell him if Christianity or Islam were true and he had his answer. However he did not choose the right denomination but his question was answered. he should continue asking which Christian denomination is best and not stop here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90ozM2DmkaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt18EElho18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS6GzsLWih0

also if you ask about true religion don't ask like what happened to an important person that at a conference said something like if Bible is true he is ready to not be able to speak and he could not speak anymore.He had mouth paralysis and went to bed.

Ask for good if you want a good sign not for bad sign like sickness.  Like if this religion is true then something very good to happen like a new home.
So far my experience was that God answers all the prayers and that people that asked to be in the best religion do end in Eastern Orthodox Christianity sooner or later. Another good prayer is to ask for a death in good condition that will lead to salvation for eternity.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 07:49:46 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2011, 07:45:03 PM »
Ask for good, like if this religion is true then something very good to happen like a new home.

 ???
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2011, 07:57:10 PM »
How do you know that was God speaking to you and not the evil one trying to keep you away from God?
How does anyone know this?

Of course the RC goes Cartesian. //:=)
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Offline theistgal

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2011, 12:27:16 AM »
How do you know that was God speaking to you and not the evil one trying to keep you away from God?
How does anyone know this?

What Wyatt said.  8)

Since I am praying to God in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I can only trust in His Mercy and Love, and continue asking Him to guide and direct my steps.

If He wants me to become Orthodox, He'll open the way before me.  Meantime, He seems to want me to stay with my husband and the beloved people who make up our BC church. That's OK with me.  :-*
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2011, 12:27:49 AM »
What is this thread about, please?
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2011, 12:29:55 AM »
Are you on drugs?
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Offline theistgal

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2011, 12:31:41 AM »
Are you on drugs?

?? Who are you asking??
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2011, 12:45:52 AM »
Are you on drugs?

?? Who are you asking??

Usually if there are no quotes it is to be assumed that the OP is being addressed.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2011, 12:46:19 AM »
Are you on drugs?

To the joy of the pharmaceutical industry, most Americans are.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2011, 12:47:01 AM »
Are you on drugs?

?? Who are you asking??

Usually if there are no quotes it is to be assumed that the OP is being addressed.

Well we know it ain't tobacco. //:=)
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2011, 12:47:57 AM »
Are you on drugs?

To the joy of the pharmaceutical industry, most Americans are.

Bah.

In that respect I am on drugs.

But I was referring to heavier more perception altering drugs.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2011, 11:48:13 AM »
It is easier to live what people believe to be a Christian life outside the Church established by Jesus.

Of course. It would be so much easier for myself in Protestantism and to say that I'm saved by faith alone. But, that's not true. In fact, I'm going to hell, but that isn't stopping me from the Orthodox Church. Until I die, I won't stop trying, even if my efforts are in vain.

That's a very strange attitude to have. I mean, it's good to try, but to be convinced you will fail seems to leave God out of the picture.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2011, 11:50:16 AM »
This is a movie where a man Khalil asked Jesus to tell him if Christianity or Islam were true and he had his answer. However he did not choose the right denomination but his question was answered. he should continue asking which Christian denomination is best and not stop here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90ozM2DmkaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt18EElho18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS6GzsLWih0

also if you ask about true religion don't ask like what happened to an important person that at a conference said something like if Bible is true he is ready to not be able to speak and he could not speak anymore.He had mouth paralysis and went to bed.

Ask for good if you want a good sign not for bad sign like sickness.  Like if this religion is true then something very good to happen like a new home.
So far my experience was that God answers all the prayers and that people that asked to be in the best religion do end in Eastern Orthodox Christianity sooner or later. Another good prayer is to ask for a death in good condition that will lead to salvation for eternity.

Are you prepared to answer to God at the Judgment for the souls which take your advice?
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Offline TristanCross

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2011, 12:17:13 PM »
It is easier to live what people believe to be a Christian life outside the Church established by Jesus.

Of course. It would be so much easier for myself in Protestantism and to say that I'm saved by faith alone. But, that's not true. In fact, I'm going to hell, but that isn't stopping me from the Orthodox Church. Until I die, I won't stop trying, even if my efforts are in vain.

That's a very strange attitude to have. I mean, it's good to try, but to be convinced you will fail seems to leave God out of the picture.

I can try, but I will fail. This is my life. This is my burden.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2011, 01:51:34 PM »
Are you on drugs?

To the joy of the pharmaceutical industry, most Americans are.

Bah.

In that respect I am on drugs.

But I was referring to heavier more perception altering drugs.

Like Zoloft? Crap. That alters my perception of reality. Guess that means I'm on drugs as well.

Having said that, perhaps the wrong question has been asked. Maybe we should be asking if the OP should be on drugs, but isn't...?  :P (Just kidding)
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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2011, 02:43:51 PM »
The question of whether the OP is on drugs, or might be on drugs, or should be on drugs is not germane to this topic and is the reason why one of our posters is now on post moderation. I am therefore putting an end to this tangent on drug use and requesting that everyone return to the topic of discussion given us in the OP. Thank you.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 02:44:27 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2011, 02:48:32 PM »
The question of whether the OP is on drugs, or might be on drugs, or should be on drugs is not germane to this topic and is the reason why one of our posters is now on post moderation. I am therefore putting an end to this tangent on drug use and requesting that everyone return to the topic of discussion given us in the OP. Thank you.

If someone would care to explain to me what the "topic of discussion" ever was, I'd appreciate it.
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2011, 03:35:32 PM »
It is easier to attack a person rather than an idea.

Anyhow I am sure that people that prayed to God to send them to the right faith will arrive sooner or later to eastern orthodox Church. It does not mean they should stop inquiring or be happy if the stay in a Chruch that is not the Church established by Jesus.

The idea is that is better to ask God to save yourself and also to ask God about which faith is the best in his eyes rather than relying on your own strength. Common sense. I don't agree with some people that prayer to God is dangerous. It is not and it will never be.

So there are three ways:

Only research by yourself without praying
Research for best faith together with praying
Only Praying without inquiring.

I believe best is to pray and to inquire and reserach for best faith at the sane time.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 03:41:25 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2011, 09:08:31 PM »
deusveritasest I respect you and I enjoyed many of your postings. I am thinking that you are upset on my response regarding Oriental Ortodoxy. First somebody asked practically for help and I had some information that not many had. Actually I asked God to show me the truth of all religions and after that I read materials that showed many things some that I can tell you hare some that I don't know, maybe I can tell on private messages.

I know that today you are angry on me however in future you have to speak with God after departure as to why have you choosed Oriental Ortodoxy. I recommend to you the life of St Basil The New. at least in Romania this book describes the last judgement and there may be some information that may interest you. I told you I asked God through prayer to let me know the truth of all religions and I think I have a good understanding of religions the things you see and don't see.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 09:10:57 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2011, 09:32:50 PM »
Actually reading the Book of St Basil the New makes clear that staying in a Church outside EasterN orthodox church can be punishable dearly. So people in this condition I recommend praying to God to help them move to Eastern Orthodox Church with ease without pain and conflict and with love.

As a start I recommend speaking with family about APPENDIX C from this thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,35988.0.html regarding Eastern orthodox Miracles. People will get intrigued.
If you can get the book with Last judgement where there are described what happens with people accepting errors and other Churches , this can increase interest too to the point that the movement will become unavoidable. There was a reason for Fathers of Church to speak greatly against errors.
I am not saying that only Eastern Orthodox Church goes to heaven, I don't actually know however I found movies with Roman Catholics and Protestants having baptism comming from death at hospitals and saying the saw heaven. In the end judgement belongs to God. Somebody said that easterN orthodox being the True Church has the best probability of getting to heaven. Then the problem with protestantism is that even if they make it to heaven, they have not Holy Communion for eternal life so they need to find a way to regain immortality.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 10:02:52 PM by pasadi97 »
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Online Ebor

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2011, 09:42:19 AM »
However there were 30 000 denominations

No, there aren't.  May I ask where you got this idea?  There are threads here that go over that and have information about the source.

<Sigh>

Quote
So I was thinking myself, would it be the Church with most people? Arianism had that and was not the true Church.
Would be the one with best buildings? Arianism had that and was not the true Church.

Which "Arianism" are you referring to here, please?


With respect,

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline Wyatt

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2011, 04:10:36 PM »
How do you know that was God speaking to you and not the evil one trying to keep you away from God?
How does anyone know this?

What Wyatt said.  8)

Since I am praying to God in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I can only trust in His Mercy and Love, and continue asking Him to guide and direct my steps.

If He wants me to become Orthodox, He'll open the way before me.  Meantime, He seems to want me to stay with my husband and the beloved people who make up our BC church. That's OK with me.  :-*
I've always wanted to visit a Byzantine Catholic Church, but unfortunately there aren't any that are even slightly close to where I live. The closest thing to a BC parish is a Greek Orthodox Church about thirty five to forty minutes from where I live, but obviously that wouldn't be the same because I wouldn't be able to commune, and would prefer to attend a Divine Liturgy where I could actually receive the Eucharist.

Offline theistgal

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2011, 05:50:46 PM »
I've always wanted to visit a Byzantine Catholic Church, but unfortunately there aren't any that are even slightly close to where I live. The closest thing to a BC parish is a Greek Orthodox Church about thirty five to forty minutes from where I live, but obviously that wouldn't be the same because I wouldn't be able to commune, and would prefer to attend a Divine Liturgy where I could actually receive the Eucharist.

It wouldn't be the same, but it would certainly be worth visiting.  My husband and I often attend a nearby OCA parish for Saturday evening Vespers, and have occasionally gone to their Divine Liturgy as well.

Of course we don't take the Eucharist, but there is definitely still a spiritual benefit from going.
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline pasadi97

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2011, 12:06:37 AM »
I am speaking about this Arianism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

Yes the number looks like is too big.
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Online Ebor

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Re: It is hard to come to the Church established by Jesus
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2011, 06:44:34 PM »
I am speaking about this Arianism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

Yes the number looks like is too big.

Thank you.  I thought that was the Arianism you meant. I'm curious though about them having the "best buildings"  Would you please explain that and do you mean some place besides the Baptistry in Ravenna, Italy?

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.