Author Topic: "Through" vs. "For the sake of"  (Read 272 times)

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Offline Agabus

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"Through" vs. "For the sake of"
« on: June 19, 2018, 12:58:16 PM »
It's not the first time I've encountered such a difference, but in the morning prayers in Nassar's "Orthodox Prayer Book" (the so-called 'five-pounder'), the phrase normally translated "through the Theotokos" is rendered "for the sake of the Theotokos."

Does anyone has the Greek and/or Slavonic for comparison?

It may be one of those things where there's a bit of language drift between translations (and sometimes re-translations from translations), but I'm curious now.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 12:59:36 PM by Agabus »
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Offline Orthodox_Slav

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Re: "Through" vs. "For the sake of"
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2018, 01:26:23 PM »
in Slavonic, it is молитв ра́ди Пречи́стыя Твоея́ Ма́тере which translates better as for the sake of the Theotokos I hope I was a good to help :)
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Offline Agabus

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Re: "Through" vs. "For the sake of"
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2018, 01:52:40 PM »
in Slavonic, it is молитв ра́ди Пречи́стыя Твоея́ Ма́тере which translates better as for the sake of the Theotokos I hope I was a good to help :)

Thanks.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Take a breath, read Ecclesiastes 1:9.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: "Through" vs. "For the sake of"
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2018, 03:06:06 PM »
It's not the first time I've encountered such a difference, but in the morning prayers in Nassar's "Orthodox Prayer Book" (the so-called 'five-pounder'), the phrase normally translated "through the Theotokos" is rendered "for the sake of the Theotokos."

Does anyone has the Greek and/or Slavonic for comparison?

It may be one of those things where there's a bit of language drift between translations (and sometimes re-translations from translations), but I'm curious now.

Which hymn are you referring to specifically?
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Offline Agabus

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Re: "Through" vs. "For the sake of"
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2018, 03:14:10 PM »
It's not the first time I've encountered such a difference, but in the morning prayers in Nassar's "Orthodox Prayer Book" (the so-called 'five-pounder'), the phrase normally translated "through the Theotokos" is rendered "for the sake of the Theotokos."

Does anyone has the Greek and/or Slavonic for comparison?

It may be one of those things where there's a bit of language drift between translations (and sometimes re-translations from translations), but I'm curious now.

Which hymn are you referring to specifically?

In the prayers upon awakening section that precedes the pages labeled "special Matins prayers." I don't remember the exact phrasing (and I don't have the Nassar handy), but it's the Troparia that begins (at least in other books), "Having risen from sleep..."
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Take a breath, read Ecclesiastes 1:9.

Offline Dominika

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Re: "Through" vs. "For the sake of"
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2018, 03:55:28 PM »
So it's another structure in Church Slavonic: "Богородицею помилуй нас"
It means "[by] the Theotokos have mercy on us".
There is no word "by" there, but the grammatic case has such role.
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Offline Orthodox_Slav

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Re: "Through" vs. "For the sake of"
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2018, 04:04:28 PM »
So it's another structure in Church Slavonic: "Богородицею помилуй нас"
It means "[by] the Theotokos have mercy on us".
There is no word "by" there, but the grammatic case has such role.

but I found my Slavonic on a Russian website and ran it through google translate so it must be correct! :)
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Offline Dominika

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Re: "Through" vs. "For the sake of"
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2018, 04:25:14 PM »
So it's another structure in Church Slavonic: "Богородицею помилуй нас"
It means "[by] the Theotokos have mercy on us".
There is no word "by" there, but the grammatic case has such role.

but I found my Slavonic on a Russian website and ran it through google translate so it must be correct! :)

But that's another prayer.
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

My Orthodox liturgical blog "For what eat, while you can fast" in Polish (videos featuring chants in different languages)

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: "Through" vs. "For the sake of"
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2018, 04:26:07 PM »
So it's another structure in Church Slavonic: "Богородицею помилуй нас"
It means "[by] the Theotokos have mercy on us".
There is no word "by" there, but the grammatic case has such role.

but I found my Slavonic on a Russian website and ran it through google translate so it must be correct! :)

But that's another prayer.


the 'Google please translate this correctly' akathist?  ;)
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Offline Orthodox_Slav

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Re: "Through" vs. "For the sake of"
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2018, 04:31:03 PM »
nah I'm just being an idiot and joking around!  ;)
not every quiet man is humble but every humble man is quiet         st Isaac the Syrian