Author Topic: A particular word of St. Justinian's Hymn  (Read 166 times)

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Offline RaphaCam

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A particular word of St. Justinian's Hymn
« on: March 01, 2017, 10:12:37 AM »
I've realised something in the a certain translation to Portuguese of St. Justinian's Hymn that disturbed me a bit, specifically the line "Who art one of the Holy Trinity".

In the Polish Orthodox Church, we use "Tu que és um da Trindade Santíssima", which is exactly what the English translation says. Greek and Slavonic don't seem to exactly, literally, say that IMO, but I'm pretty sure neither adress Christ as a "part" of the Holy Trinity, which the translation used by a particular jurisdiction in Brazil (or at least part of it) says precisely: "Tu que és parte da Trindade Santíssima". I got the e-mail address from a priest that might change this if he realises this is wrong, but I'd like to get your opinion first, since I'm a bit shy about talking to priests, specially about such an intrincate issue: doesn't the idea that the Holy Trinity has "parts" recall the error of partialism, which in turn denies the indivisibility of the Holy Trinity? In that case, should I tell the priest to review this particular word choice? How should I address him?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 10:25:08 AM by RaphaCam »
"Behold, the mystical sacrifice, fully accomplished, is ushered in. In fervent faith let us draw near, that we may become sharers in everlasting life. Alleluia."

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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: A particular word of St. Justinian's Hymn
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 11:40:48 AM »
Just ask him if he can change it. If it's all of the time, then I would have it changed. My priest said that Christ's blood was poured out for "everyone" as opposed to the literal "many" although he usually uses the latter. If it's once in a while, I wouldn't worry about it. I would also ask which words you'd have used instead of parte in that hymn.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: A particular word of St. Justinian's Hymn
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 11:48:16 AM »
I think the word "part", at least in English, would not necessarily have a heterodox connotation. Yes, it can imply something like "appendage" but it can also just mean one among a group, e.g. "I'm part of the team."
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: A particular word of St. Justinian's Hymn
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 12:15:51 PM »
I would also ask which words you'd have used instead of parte in that hymn.
I was going to suggest um (one), as used in my own jurisdiction and in English-language versions. Or simply ommitting it, as Greek and Slavonic do (something like "Tu que és da Trindade Santíssima"), although I personally don't like how it sounds and it would require a change in metrics.

I think the word "part", at least in English, would not necessarily have a heterodox connotation. Yes, it can imply something like "appendage" but it can also just mean one among a group, e.g. "I'm part of the team."
I think "part" implies separability (at least theoretical). For instance, I would never say happiness is part of my behaviour, because my happiness cannot be conceived outside of my behaviour. Similarly, the Son cannot be conceived outside of the Trinity. But this is just a reflection I developed of my own since this word first estranged me, I may be overthinking.
"Behold, the mystical sacrifice, fully accomplished, is ushered in. In fervent faith let us draw near, that we may become sharers in everlasting life. Alleluia."

Please pray for myself, my family and my friends.

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese). Last article: Fontes de fé da Igreja Ortodoxa

Offline scamandrius

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Re: A particular word of St. Justinian's Hymn
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 04:19:19 PM »
I think the word "part", at least in English, would not necessarily have a heterodox connotation. Yes, it can imply something like "appendage" but it can also just mean one among a group, e.g. "I'm part of the team."

But you could also say that "I'm one [member] of the team" and avoid heterodox connotations altogether.
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Offline Luka

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Re: A particular word of St. Justinian's Hymn
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 06:26:03 PM »
The simple question is why use "part" when "one" can be used. The advantage of the latter is not only that it steers clear of any suggestion of parts in the Godhead, but it is simply more faithful to the original wording of the hymn. There is no need to paraphrase that.