Orthonorm's Dating and Relationship Advice Column

[dzheremi]

Boy, and I thought things were awkward enough with our hand-gesture thing in place of an actual kiss...I was wrong!

[JamesR]

Hurr hurr I can't wait till I get to kiss the girl I like at Church on Forgiveness Sunday     

For those who ask why we no longer do the kiss of peace in the Liturgy. This is why

My Church still does it I'm gonna need some listerine and breath mints first though.

[William]

What can you do if you've got an unwanted infatuation with someone?

[Opus118]

What can you do if you've got an unwanted infatuation with someone?

This thought is ambiguous to me. I am assuming you are saying you are infatuated with someone, but you do not want to be infatuated with that someone.

My advice, assuming my assumption is correct, is to relish the infatuation. This is one of the most beautiful, yet painful, emotions God has granted us.

[William]

What can you do if you've got an unwanted infatuation with someone?

This thought is ambiguous to me. I am assuming you are saying you are infatuated with someone, but you do not want to be infatuated with that someone.

My advice, assuming my assumption is correct, is to relish the infatuation. This is one of the most beautiful, yet painful, emotions God has granted us.

 

[Opus118]

What can you do if you've got an unwanted infatuation with someone?

This thought is ambiguous to me. I am assuming you are saying you are infatuated with someone, but you do not want to be infatuated with that someone.

My advice, assuming my assumption is correct, is to relish the infatuation. This is one of the most beautiful, yet painful, emotions God has granted us.

 

I think I wrote about this before: I think the yellow circle things are scary.

Are you saying I am wrong?

[Justin Kissel]

My advice, assuming my assumption is correct, is to relish the infatuation.

I would like to +1 this...

[Cyrillic]

-

[vamrat]

What can you do if you've got an unwanted infatuation with someone?

The more heartbreak you endure the more cold and detached you become.  This is a good thing.  It makes life easier.  Hell, you get shot down enough, someday you'll be just like me!  And I know you'd love that!   

[Shiny]

What can you do if you've got an unwanted infatuation with someone?

The more heartbreak you endure the more cold and detached you become.  This is a good thing.  It makes life easier.  Hell, you get shot down enough, someday you'll be just like me!  And I know you'd love that!   

I really hope that was a joke.

[vamrat]

What can you do if you've got an unwanted infatuation with someone?

The more heartbreak you endure the more cold and detached you become.  This is a good thing.  It makes life easier.  Hell, you get shot down enough, someday you'll be just like me!  And I know you'd love that!   

I really hope that was a joke.

Some jokes are funny because they are true, some because they are absurd.  What I said is a display of the duality of humour.

[Punch]

The more heartbreak you endure the more cold and detached you become.  This is a good thing.  It makes life easier.  Hell, you get shot down enough, someday you'll be just like me!  And I know you'd love that!   

I was turned down 21times for Junior Prom alone.  It got to be a game after a while.  I understand how you feel, and I pursued that course for a while.  I came realize, after a while, that it is far better to face the pain and love even if you are not loved in return.  Is there any better example of a love that was not returned than Jesus Christ?  He was murdered by the very people He came to save.  Can there be any greater example of heartbreak than what God Himself must feel as He looks down upon the Creation that He made good, yet that willingly chose evil instead.  Be careful about the indifference, and of the suppression of the emotions.  One of my favorite songs from that time in my life expressed how I felt after burying the pain and emotions:

When all the world was very young
And mountain magic heavy hung
The supermen would walk in file
Guardians of a loveless isle
And gloomy browed with superfear their tragic endless lives
Could heave nor sigh
In solemn, perverse serenity, wondrous beings chained to life

Strange games they would play then
No death for the perfect men
Life rolls into one for them
So softly a supergod cries

Where all were minds in uni-thought
Powers weird by mystics taught
No pain, no joy, no power too great
Colossal strength to grasp a fate
Where sad-eyed merment tossed in slumbers
Nightmare dreams no mortal mind could hold
A man would tear his brother's flesh, a chance to die
To turn to mold.

Far out in the red-sky
Far out from the sad eyes
Strange, mad celebration
So softly a supergod cries

Far out in the red-sky
Far out from the sad eyes
Strange, mad celebration
So softly a supergod dies

By David Bowie

I have come to prefer the disappointments in Life to the emptiness of indifference.

[Cyrillic]

21 times? That's impressive. I wouldn't have tried more than twice.

[NightOwl]

21 times? That's impressive. I wouldn't have tried more than twice.

I think that has to be a typo.

[Punch]

21 times? That's impressive. I wouldn't have tried more than twice.

I think that has to be a typo.

It is not a typo.  As I wrote, it became a game after a while.  I WAS counting.

[vamrat]

The more heartbreak you endure the more cold and detached you become.  This is a good thing.  It makes life easier.  Hell, you get shot down enough, someday you'll be just like me!  And I know you'd love that!   

I was turned down 21times for Junior Prom alone.  It got to be a game after a while.  I understand how you feel, and I pursued that course for a while.  I came realize, after a while, that it is far better to face the pain and love even if you are not loved in return.  Is there any better example of a love that was not returned than Jesus Christ?  He was murdered by the very people He came to save.  Can there be any greater example of heartbreak than what God Himself must feel as He looks down upon the Creation that He made good, yet that willingly chose evil instead.  Be careful about the indifference, and of the suppression of the emotions.  One of my favorite songs from that time in my life expressed how I felt after burying the pain and emotions:

When all the world was very young
And mountain magic heavy hung
The supermen would walk in file
Guardians of a loveless isle
And gloomy browed with superfear their tragic endless lives
Could heave nor sigh
In solemn, perverse serenity, wondrous beings chained to life

Strange games they would play then
No death for the perfect men
Life rolls into one for them
So softly a supergod cries

Where all were minds in uni-thought
Powers weird by mystics taught
No pain, no joy, no power too great
Colossal strength to grasp a fate
Where sad-eyed merment tossed in slumbers
Nightmare dreams no mortal mind could hold
A man would tear his brother's flesh, a chance to die
To turn to mold.

Far out in the red-sky
Far out from the sad eyes
Strange, mad celebration
So softly a supergod cries

Far out in the red-sky
Far out from the sad eyes
Strange, mad celebration
So softly a supergod dies

By David Bowie

I have come to prefer the disappointments in Life to the emptiness of indifference.

One of my favorite songs too.

The advantage of the indifference and suppression is that I went into deep depression after the first two.  Mild sadness after the next two.  Relief after the next three.  One of them even became a friend (mutual friendzoning - hommie don't play the unilateral variety). 

The disadvantage is that when someone does reciprocate the emotions, it is not as deep a feeling as it would be without the learned suppression.  Thank God you don't need to be infatuated with someone to love them!

And I definitely get the point about how God must feel seeing us reject him.  I am very happy with my life right now but I only have to scroll back through this thread to see how depressed I was last year.  But then, during that depression I turned to God deeper than at any point in my life before.  Now that I have pretty much everything I could ask for in life, I have to continuously remind myself to take time out and thank God for what he has done for me.  Only one facet of my life has changed, everything else I love was already there, but changing this made me appreciate everything else all the more.  And this one thing changed after a lot of prayer, and it changed in a manner that made it obvious that God was the one behind it.

[Cyrillic]

I never dare to ask because I'm afraid of being turned down. These stories aren't exactly helping.

[NightOwl]

21 times? That's impressive. I wouldn't have tried more than twice.

I think that has to be a typo.

It is not a typo.  As I wrote, it became a game after a while.  I WAS counting.

Quite a feat then. I didn't go to Junior Prom, and my Senior Prom "experience" was pretty awful, so maybe you didn't miss much anyway.

[William]

See folks, I'm a coward. I have had countless perfect opportunities to talk to this girl but never have. Now I realize the ship has sailed as I'll never see her again after Saturday and I'm just trying to stop hating myself.

[Adela]

I never dare to ask because I'm afraid of being turned down. These stories aren't exactly helping.

Listen, you guys, ask these girls out!  This really bothers me because my husband is very shy and introverted, and we wasted years on our inability to really put our feelings towards each other out there.  Finally it all came together when I was about to marry the absolutely wrong person, who was very outgoing and charming, but very, very controlling, and  2 months before the wedding I threw my gown into a dumpster and reconnected through an act of God with my most wonderful husband.   Shy, sensitive guys are the best, in my opinion.  All that rico suave stuff is for airheads, imho.

[vamrat]

I never dare to ask because I'm afraid of being turned down. These stories aren't exactly helping.

Listen, you guys, ask these girls out!  This really bothers me because my husband is very shy and introverted, and we wasted years on our inability to really put our feelings towards each other out there.  Finally it all came together when I was about to marry the absolutely wrong person, who was very outgoing and charming, but very, very controlling, and  2 months before the wedding I threw my gown into a dumpster and reconnected through an act of God with my most wonderful husband.   Shy, sensitive guys are the best, in my opinion.  All that rico suave stuff is for airheads, imho.

Women are allowed to ask guys out as well.  Oftentimes, the pain of a nuclear rejection far overshadows the potential rewards that a relationship could bring.  Can't be mad at a guy for weighing his options. 

Which brings me to...

See folks, I'm a coward. I have had countless perfect opportunities to talk to this girl but never have. Now I realize the ship has sailed as I'll never see her again after Saturday and I'm just trying to stop hating myself.

You are in no way, shape, or form a coward.  If the first girl you ever ask out says yes, and you fall in love, get married, have a litter of kids together, and then grow old together and die of some generic illness or disorder at 76 years of age...you are a lucky man.  But more than likely you will have to face the rejection that you now fear.  Just know that the majority of us are facing the same things you are, the same fears, the same hopes, and the same disappointments.  And no one who has had to go through these things will ever call you a coward, unless he is a complete turd burglar (so screw him).  I'm not gonna look down on you, so you shouldn't look down on you either.

So don't get down about it.  I'm sure she is the greatest girl in the entire world and you will never ever ever find one like her again...until the next one comes along.  Just remember, no girl is perfect, but there are 3.5 billion of them.  If only 1% of 1% are good enough then there are 350,000 fish in the sea.  And I'm willing to bet that the percentage is much higher than that!  Be cool, never neglect a hommie because he'll be there when she's not, and if she friendzones you, she isn't worth the friendship you have to offer.

Stay up!

[Adela]

I never dare to ask because I'm afraid of being turned down. These stories aren't exactly helping.

Listen, you guys, ask these girls out!  This really bothers me because my husband is very shy and introverted, and we wasted years on our inability to really put our feelings towards each other out there.  Finally it all came together when I was about to marry the absolutely wrong person, who was very outgoing and charming, but very, very controlling, and  2 months before the wedding I threw my gown into a dumpster and reconnected through an act of God with my most wonderful husband.   Shy, sensitive guys are the best, in my opinion.  All that rico suave stuff is for airheads, imho.

Women are allowed to ask guys out as well.  Oftentimes, the pain of a nuclear rejection far overshadows the potential rewards that a relationship could bring.  Can't be mad at a guy for weighing his options. 

This is true....  But someone has to make the first move.  My husband and I worked together, so there was hesitation about getting rejected by a co-worker and then having to see that co-worker every day. And, having other co-workers find out about the rejection, very scary!  And, I'm not the most forward person.  At the time the most forward I could be was to talk to him about cars, since I knew he was into cars.  So, I would go into his office  to talk about Chevelles, GTOs,  the 66 Chevy Impala Supersport my parents owned when I was a kid, etc......

Later when we reconnected he told me about how he often thought of that song, On Days Like These by Matt Monro that has the lyrics:
 
On days like these when skies are blue and fields are green
I look around and think about what might have been
and then I hear sweet music float around my head
as I recall the many things we left unsaid
its on days like these that I remember
singing songs and drinking wine
while your eyes played games with mine

So, I just want to encourage some of the shy guys here to know there are women out there that will value them, but they have to go through some rejection first, unfortunately.

[Punch]

I never dare to ask because I'm afraid of being turned down. These stories aren't exactly helping.

I honestly cry for you.  I know the feeling too well.

[Punch]

This is true....  But someone has to make the first move. 

You are right.  Prior to the Prom experience, I had one date.  It was the first girl that I ever asked out.  She was also one of the most beautiful girls that I had ever seen.  She disappeard after that - like the next day.  I found out nearly 40 years later that she was taken from her home by child protective services (she lieved in poverty that is not often seen in this country) and relocated to a town 20 miles away.  She married he high school boyfriend, had four children and several grandchildren, and is still married to the same man.  The second girl that I dated left me for another man DURING OUR FIRST DATE (again, not a typo).  I gave up after that.  It was my wife that pretty much went after me, thankfully.  And I am still thankful 32 years later.

[Shiny]

yall gotta grab life by the balls.

[Justin Kissel]

I was in Walmart tonight and scoping out the chicks. There must have been a full moon or something, cause I'll be dipped in hog snot if there wasn't a thousand hot mamas in that place. Woo-ee! Anyway, so there I was being a gentleman and looking but not touching and this girl caught me checking her out. Some of these girls get so offended when you stare, but this girl was different. She marched right up to me and asked: "You like what you see?"  I was all "Oh yeah"  and she said "Well why are you just standing there like you can't talk?"  and I was like "LOL I dunno" and she said "Well be a man and ask me out on a date" and I was all like "We're already at Walmart, let's go over to the McDonalds" and she said ok so we went. I ordered my usual--the double quarter pounder w/cheese meal, large or course, and 3 extra hamburgers. She asked me to order for her so I got her the same. Wow, she could really put away the food, let me tell you! It was like she's some kind of competitive eating champion or something. Anyway, so we got on so well that I invited her back to my place and she eagerly nodded in approval. When we got to my apartment I asked her if she wanted to put a DVD on, and she said yes, so I put Supersize Me on, and we started making out. She was really turning me on. She was beautiful, curvy but not too much, and she was way into it man. It was a scene. I bunted my way to first base, and am thinking about stealing second next time. But I just don't know.

[Punch]

I was in Walmart tonight and scoping out the chicks. There must have been a full moon or something, cause I'll be dipped in hog snot if there wasn't a thousand hot mamas in that place. Woo-ee! Anyway, so there I was being a gentleman and looking but not touching and this girl caught me checking her out. Some of these girls get so offended when you stare, but this girl was different. She marched right up to me and asked: "You like what you see?"  I was all "Oh yeah"  and she said "Well why are you just standing there like you can't talk?"  and I was like "LOL I dunno" and she said "Well be a man and ask me out on a date" and I was all like "We're already at Walmart, let's go over to the McDonalds" and she said ok so we went. I ordered my usual--the double quarter pounder w/cheese meal, large or course, and 3 extra hamburgers. She asked me to order for her so I got her the same. Wow, she could really put away the food, let me tell you! It was like she's some kind of competitive eating champion or something. Anyway, so we got on so well that I invited her back to my place and she eagerly nodded in approval. When we got to my apartment I asked her if she wanted to put a DVD on, and she said yes, so I put Supersize Me on, and we started making out. She was really turning me on. She was beautiful, curvy but not too much, and she was way into it man. It was a scene. I bunted my way to first base, and am thinking about stealing second next time. But I just don't know.

That story made me poop.  Way too much McDonalds.

[Opus118]

I was in Walmart tonight and scoping out the chicks. There must have been a full moon or something, cause I'll be dipped in hog snot if there wasn't a thousand hot mamas in that place. Woo-ee! Anyway, so there I was being a gentleman and looking but not touching and this girl caught me checking her out. Some of these girls get so offended when you stare, but this girl was different. She marched right up to me and asked: "You like what you see?"  I was all "Oh yeah"  and she said "Well why are you just standing there like you can't talk?"  and I was like "LOL I dunno" and she said "Well be a man and ask me out on a date" and I was all like "We're already at Walmart, let's go over to the McDonalds" and she said ok so we went. I ordered my usual--the double quarter pounder w/cheese meal, large or course, and 3 extra hamburgers. She asked me to order for her so I got her the same. Wow, she could really put away the food, let me tell you! It was like she's some kind of competitive eating champion or something. Anyway, so we got on so well that I invited her back to my place and she eagerly nodded in approval. When we got to my apartment I asked her if she wanted to put a DVD on, and she said yes, so I put Supersize Me on, and we started making out. She was really turning me on. She was beautiful, curvy but not too much, and she was way into it man. It was a scene. I bunted my way to first base, and am thinking about stealing second next time. But I just don't know.

I can't help but notice that your writing style is like that of Lazlo Toth. This is marketable. I, on the other hand, was always told by my teachers and professors that I write like Jame Thurber. This is not marketable. I am sure there is at least one literary agent at OCnet that can lead you onto a path of fame and success.

My only hope is that you hire an agent as an intern. If they are successful in promoting you their future will be secure. I cannot imagine anyone refusing this particular opportunity for work without pay.  

Of course, knowing you, you will peruse the Prayer section for unemployed OCnetters that are in need of help and use the share of the profits that would otherwise go to your agent, for them.

[SolEX01]

David Letterman is likely done in August 2014 and CBS appeals to the young demographic; so, here comes:

The Late Show with Asteriktos

[Cyrillic]

See folks, I'm a coward. I have had countless perfect opportunities to talk to this girl but never have. Now I realize the ship has sailed as I'll never see her again after Saturday and I'm just trying to stop hating myself.

You think you're a coward? You should hear my story...

[mabsoota]

disclaimer:
i have only read pages 1 and 2 and the last 3 pages, so forgive me if i repeat something.

i know a lot of these posts are comedy / docudrama material, but i wanted to reply to the posts about infatuation, which i think are serious questions.

when i was 14 - 17 years old, i had a few infatuations, partly with people on tv, and partly with unavailable friends of my parents who were always at least 10 years older.
i got enough wise advice by then to know that if i am just fantasizing about cuddling in front of an open fire, and not considering what interests we share or imagining having this guy's kids, then it's probably just a fantasy, and can be enjoyed for a short while and then laid to rest.

i decided not to make a move until i was 18, as, i know some people get married at 16, but i felt like my feelings had not changed, and were still quite immature at 17. i concentrated on other interests in life, and on my studies (i was heading to higher education, or i would have concentrated on getting a job).
i really didn't imagine myself getting old with any of these guys, having grandchildren, building a house together, or any other more mundane stuff.
so i figured my feelings were fueled more by romantic movies than by realistic expectations.
by 17 1/2, i had learnt enough about myself to know a few things that i really liked and were important to me (travel and studying the Bible) and i knew i would have to wait till i found someone who shared these interests.
i spent less and less energy 'feeding' my infatuations with my daydreaming and more energy on day to day life, and my feelings faded.

i was, at this tender age, still a bit worried that if i did not get married soon, i may join a monastery. (even in those days as a protestant, i knew there were some very special and spiritual people in monasteries, and i admired them but was not at all keen on the no romance aspect!) however i decided to trust God and to wait for the right time to come.

as i had really poor social skills, i knew i had to rely on God to help me to notice if someone was romantically interested in me. i gave myself a plan: until the age of 21 i would just study, make friends and go to church. then i would start to pray again about it seriously and see what would happen.

just before my 21st birthday, i travelled alone across europe on a trip loosely linked to my education.
i went to a Christian music festival where there were 3000 people present.
the following year i went back to catch up with my rather special pen-friend i met there.
i didn't need to 'date' anyone else after that; he shared my main aims and interests, and we discussed our plans together with the people in the church i attended, and found a community who supported us through the wedding and the ups and downs of the first year together (before we started moving house a lot).

i know this is just one person's experience and it is different for different people, but the main thing is to think what we have learnt about God's love and grace from every experience we go through.
it is a big mistake if young people are acting on their infatuations and cuddling each other while one thinks of her favourite pop star and the other imagines his favourite model (this can happen to older adults too and is equally dangerous!)

it's normal to have very strong emotions during adolescence, but as we get older, we should gain more control of these, and use our heads as well as our hearts to judge if we are making a sensible move.
(making a move on your bisexual receptionist would not come into the 'sensible' category!)
 

i have also seen encouraging examples of later weddings recently in an orthodox church, between people who were fulfilled and active in their single life before meeting someone special.
so don't give up hope, but also make sure you put plenty of energy into other things than finding romance.

[Cyrillic]

Inspiring post, mabsoota. Thanks.

[Shiny]

Inspiring post, mabsoota. Thanks.

I don't want to see you become a Dante

[Anastasia1]

How much does chemistry in a relationship build over time?

[Shiny]

How much does chemistry in a relationship build over time?

I think there needs to be chemistry right away.

[SolEX01]

How much does chemistry in a relationship build over time?

Chemistry can be depleted as quickly as it is built up.  If you have chemistry, you continue to build it through mutual understandings, mutual respect, respect of boundaries, enjoyment of shared interests, etc.

I was reading a court opinion that dealt with a high-conflict couple that was married for only 18 months even though they've known each other, off and on, for a decade.  Two people can form a toxic relationship that has its highs and lows.  That is not an example of chemistry.

[Justin Kissel]

So we met at McDonalds again, and I finally found out her name: Naomi. I don't really like that name, but I can't change it at this point, so I'll have to live with it for now. I've been thinking about my options if it turns out she's against legally changing her name. Like what would I settle for if she's being unreasonable? "Nae" maybe? Or just "N"? I'm not wild about those either. I hope she'll change it to something good like Amanda or Sarah or something. Anyway, so we met at McDonalds and further discussed our mutual love of fast food. We did hit a minor snag when it came to fries. Apparently she prefers Burger King fries over McDonalds, which I think is disgusting. I mean, seriously? Anyway, so we are going to meet at Sonic next time, that should be good eats.

So afterwards we went shopping at the strip mall. It was window shopping mostly, but we came to the Ebot store, and had to check it out. For those who don't know, Ebot is sort of like a fancy, rich version of the Salvation Army or Goodwill. It's like where the rich  people go to for used clothes and furniture and housewares. There was quite a crowd, so navigating the store was a bit of a challenge, but I loved being close to N and having her bump into me. I think she liked it, because she was bumping into me even where there was no one around, and she kept ahold of my arm. It made me feel tingly and warm.

After Ebot we went back to my place and I put on Netflix. She wanted to watch Anime, and I wanted to watch NOVA, so we compromised and started watching the intellectual half-way point between those two: Saved By The Bell. We didn't get very far before we started making out though. It was that episode where Jessie is using drugs and in that singing group, so it's not like we missed much anyway. So I kissed her, and she kissed me, and I felt like this was very right, like the rightest thing that had happened to me in a long time. Now the question is, where do I take this from here? I don't want to pressure her, but I really really like her. I'm even thinking about shaving so I look more "presentable" for her (blah). But should I be willing to change who I am just for someone else? Shouldn't I just be who I am? But won't I be who I am regardless, can I be anything else? But maybe I can. Sonic is a high class joint though, I don't want to embarrass her. Any help would be appreciated.

[Justin Kissel]

How much does chemistry in a relationship build over time?

"There's a fine line between love and nausea"

I think there has to be some spark from the beginning, but love can grow. Chase your dreams, but guard your heart. Look for love in all the right places, and it will find you when it's ready.

Just go for it. If it works out, then great. If it doesn't, hey at least you got some free meals.

[Shiny]

Naomi sounds like a hot name to me.

[Shiny]

Apparently she prefers Burger King fries over McDonalds, which I think is disgusting. I mean, seriously?

End it now.

[TheMathematician]

Apparently she prefers Burger King fries over McDonalds, which I think is disgusting. I mean, seriously?

End it now.

because everyone knows that Wendy's had the best fries out of the three.

[Shiny]

Apparently she prefers Burger King fries over McDonalds, which I think is disgusting. I mean, seriously?

End it now.

because everyone knows that Wendy's had the best fries out of the three.

Wendy's has stepped up their game considerably but still can't touch the McD's.

[That person]

Apparently she prefers Burger King fries over McDonalds, which I think is disgusting. I mean, seriously?

End it now.

because everyone knows that Wendy's had the best fries out of the three.

If you define "best" to mean "worst," you'd be correct.

[Shiny]

Apparently she prefers Burger King fries over McDonalds, which I think is disgusting. I mean, seriously?

End it now.

because everyone knows that Wendy's had the best fries out of the three.

If you define "best" to mean "worst," you'd be correct.

When was the last time you have been to Wendy's to try their new burgers?

[Shiny]

Apparently she prefers Burger King fries over McDonalds, which I think is disgusting. I mean, seriously?

End it now.

because everyone knows that Wendy's had the best fries out of the three.

If you define "best" to mean "worst," you'd be correct.

He missed the important questions on his SAT.

[Tags:]

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