Author Topic: Fasting before the DL  (Read 908 times)

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Offline Volnutt

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Fasting before the DL
« on: July 21, 2011, 03:53:22 AM »
In 1 Corinthians 11, St. Paul ends his instructions on the Eucharist with verse 34:

But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

I understand in the first century, the Eucharist was combined with an agape meal, but still doesn't the allowance of eating beforehand conflict with the requirement to fast before partaking of the Eucharist? Or am I reading this wrong?
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Offline zekarja

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2011, 06:24:27 AM »
Perhaps it means, eat at home after the agape meal. Just my personal guess.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2011, 06:47:59 AM »
I don't think so. Paul complains earlier in the passage that they're pigging out and getting drunk and other people don't get any food at all. It doesn't seem like much of a solution to ask people to just sit through it.
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I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline zekarja

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2011, 06:51:06 AM »
I don't think so. Paul complains earlier in the passage that they're pigging out and getting drunk and other people don't get any food at all. It doesn't seem like much of a solution to ask people to just sit through it.

That's true... :laugh:

Offline Dyhn

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2011, 07:34:12 AM »
In 1 Corinthians 11, St. Paul ends his instructions on the Eucharist with verse 34:

But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

I understand in the first century, the Eucharist was combined with an agape meal, but still doesn't the allowance of eating beforehand conflict with the requirement to fast before partaking of the Eucharist? Or am I reading this wrong?

Can you tell me where the requirement to fast before communion originated please, as i don't see that in scripture. I have always understood this passage to mean that the breaking of bread is within the context of a community meal.

~ Dyhn

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2011, 07:45:34 AM »
Well, sola scriptura is not an Orthodox doctrine so it doesn't matter whether it's spelled out in Scripture. Unwritten tradition is authoritative in Orthodoxy as long as it doesn't contradict Scripture, so my question is whether the fasting requirement does in fact contradict Scripture.

As to when the tradition of fasting (the night before) the Eucharist came to be, I don't know. It's predicated on respect for the body and blood of Christ, but from that verse it doesn't seem to me that Paul thought fasting to be absolutely needed.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 07:49:39 AM by Volnutt »
Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words. -Goethe

I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline zekarja

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2011, 08:09:36 AM »
Fasting before Communion is a discipline not a doctrine. Just like celibacy of our bishops is a discipline not a doctrine.

Due to sickness a priest may permit one to drink or eat during the fast before Communion.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2011, 08:10:53 AM »
Ah. Ok, that makes sense.
Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words. -Goethe

I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline akimori makoto

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2011, 08:00:11 PM »
Could anyone comment on why the ascetic/total fast the morning of communing is not often relaxed by spiritual fathers?

I have often wondered why the ascetic fast is considered so much more important than the ordinary fasts of the Church.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2011, 10:44:09 PM »
My semi-informed guess would be that it is because of the people who were eating and drinking condemnation upon themselves, by not properly preparing for the Eucharist.  The people who were becoming drunk before it.  The people who were engaging in gluttony, before it.  I think the Church probably found, through trial and error, that it was best for our souls if we not commune without a fast.
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Offline Kasatkin fan

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2011, 02:05:41 AM »
My own experience is that the complete fast makes what I am about to do (partake of the Eucharist) something I am forced to think about beforehand. Without the fast it becomes a case of just showing up at church, eating the body and blood without a second thought, and going home.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2011, 04:15:22 AM »
My semi-informed guess would be that it is because of the people who were eating and drinking condemnation upon themselves, by not properly preparing for the Eucharist.  The people who were becoming drunk before it.  The people who were engaging in gluttony, before it.  I think the Church probably found, through trial and error, that it was best for our souls if we not commune without a fast.
Unlikely from the context:

Quote
Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing?
Eating and drinking condemnation doesn't seem to be the issue in view, lack of order does.r
Every day we should hear at least one little song, read one good poem, see one exquisite picture, and, if possible, speak a few sensible words. -Goethe

I once heard a monk say, “The person of prayer does not need to go any further than his own heart to find the source of all violence in the world.” -Fr. Stephen Freeman

Offline biro

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Re: Fasting before the DL
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2011, 06:24:02 AM »
I take medications which I am required to use with food. It says so on the labels. I try to keep this to a minimum, such as a piece of fruit or a slice of bread. If I don't have anything, the medicine is so strong that it can cause nausea. Now, I'm not chrismated yet, so I don't have to worry about Communion. In the long run, however, it is something I will discuss with my priest.
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