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Author Topic: The Problem of Hell and a loving God  (Read 16579 times) Average Rating: 0
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #405 on: August 07, 2011, 07:36:54 PM »

Because I like you I give you one last explanation. When Paul calls the Old Testament " the Holy Scriptures" and STATES these "are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus" (2Ti 3:15 NKJ) He is NOT discussing the New Testament.

Therefore saying the Old Testament can make wise is NOT saying the NT can't make wise. It is not calling the NT anything, it didn’t exist then. So when I base my argument on Paul’s words, I am not discussing the NT either.

But you are aguing that this passage implies scripture "alone", if you accept the context that is referring to the OT, then your assertion implies "OT alone" because that is the subject being referrenced, not a vague "whatever any future reader of this might consider to be scripture", but the OT.

Yes, Scripture alone is supreme, not scripture alone exists.

Paul says Scripture alone was inspired by God to be beneficial for doctrine, that the man of God be complete…UNLIKE ALL OTHER TEXTS.
I challenge you to find the word "alone" in 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

As Paul didn't include other literature he is speaking about scripture "alone":

 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 (2Ti 3:15-17 NKJ)
That's an unacceptable argument from silence. Besides, it doesn't satisfy my challenge. I challenged you to find the word "alone" in the above text, and I still challenge you to find the word "alone" in the above text.

You misunderstand what an argument from silence is...this wasn't it.

Paul speaks only of scripture as being inspired.

It follows scripture alone is inspired.

To contradict my deduction from Paul's statement, you can do only one thing, find a scripture that says other literature is inspired.

Of course we talk about inspiration from God, not demons.

Yes, demons do inspire tradition, but that is not the tradition Paul speaks of in 2 Timothy:

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
 (1Ti 4:1 NKJ)
Alfred, I challenged you to find the word "alone" in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. Everything else is secondary. Let's therefore focus on my challenge to you.   I want you to show me where the word "alone" is found in the text of 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

Are you saying we cannot deduce from scripture, truth?
I'm not looking for what you deduce from 2 Timothy 3:15-17. I want you to show me where the word "alone" is to be found in the text. It really is that easy.
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« Reply #406 on: August 07, 2011, 07:37:38 PM »

He'll never find what isn't there.
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« Reply #407 on: August 07, 2011, 07:41:51 PM »

Evidently elegant deduction must be explained here to be accepted. Happy to help, I live to serve:

Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approval. (2Ti 3:16 GWN)

Every Scripture passage is inspired by God to be beneficial for teaching correct doctrine, NOT every sentence of all literature is inspired by God.

Therefore, as Paul speaks of scripture alone being inspired by God to correct error, its logical scripture alone is inspired by God to correct error, not other literature.

We are speaking of literature, not about His inspiring prophets ect, whose words became scripture.

Enough of the high falootin logic games, Alfred. I want to know where the word "alone" is to be found in the text of 2 Timothy 3:15-17. Not even the GWN paraphrase you cited shows this.
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« Reply #408 on: August 07, 2011, 07:58:01 PM »

Evidently elegant deduction must be explained here to be accepted. Happy to help, I live to serve:

Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approval. (2Ti 3:16 GWN)

Every Scripture passage is inspired by God to be beneficial for teaching correct doctrine, NOT every sentence of all literature is inspired by God.

Therefore, as Paul speaks of scripture alone being inspired by God to correct error, its logical scripture alone is inspired by God to correct error, not other literature.

We are speaking of literature, not about His inspiring prophets ect, whose words became scripture.

Enough of the high falootin logic games, Alfred. I want to know where the word "alone" is to be found in the text of 2 Timothy 3:15-17. Not even the GWN paraphrase you cited shows this.

If you are right, then it should be easy for you to show where Paul listed other literature besides scripture, as equipping the saints.

If scripture isn't alone in this regard, show the precise literature Paul referred to in this text, that isn't scripture.

You can't, because scripture alone is inspired by God for correcting the saints, and equipping them...not other literature.


 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:15-17 NKJ)


Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.
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« Reply #409 on: August 07, 2011, 07:59:34 PM »

The word "alone" still isn't in that verse.
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« Reply #410 on: August 07, 2011, 08:03:07 PM »

Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.

Which part excludes everything, BUT scripture?

Chop... chop...
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« Reply #411 on: August 07, 2011, 08:04:44 PM »

Evidently elegant deduction must be explained here to be accepted. Happy to help, I live to serve:

Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approval. (2Ti 3:16 GWN)

Every Scripture passage is inspired by God to be beneficial for teaching correct doctrine, NOT every sentence of all literature is inspired by God.

Therefore, as Paul speaks of scripture alone being inspired by God to correct error, its logical scripture alone is inspired by God to correct error, not other literature.

We are speaking of literature, not about His inspiring prophets ect, whose words became scripture.

Enough of the high falootin logic games, Alfred. I want to know where the word "alone" is to be found in the text of 2 Timothy 3:15-17. Not even the GWN paraphrase you cited shows this.

If you are right, then it should be easy for you to show where Paul listed other literature besides scripture, as equipping the saints.
I'm not playing your logic games, Alfred. Show me where the word "alone" is to be found in 2 Timothy 3:15-17 and be done with it.
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« Reply #412 on: August 07, 2011, 08:05:13 PM »

Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.

Which part excludes everything, BUT scripture?

Chop... chop...


If Paul was speaking about other literature, and not scripture alone, it should be easy for you to quote him, proving that.

chop chop, time to answer the obvious...
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« Reply #413 on: August 07, 2011, 08:05:40 PM »

Let's ask Conspiracy Cat.



If he can't find it, no one can.
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« Reply #414 on: August 07, 2011, 08:06:18 PM »

Quote from: Alfred Persson
If Paul was speaking about other literature, and not scripture alone, it should be easy for you to quote him, proving that.

chop chop, time to answer the obvious...

The word "alone" is still not in that verse.
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« Reply #415 on: August 07, 2011, 08:06:50 PM »

Evidently elegant deduction must be explained here to be accepted. Happy to help, I live to serve:

Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approval. (2Ti 3:16 GWN)

Every Scripture passage is inspired by God to be beneficial for teaching correct doctrine, NOT every sentence of all literature is inspired by God.

Therefore, as Paul speaks of scripture alone being inspired by God to correct error, its logical scripture alone is inspired by God to correct error, not other literature.

We are speaking of literature, not about His inspiring prophets ect, whose words became scripture.

Enough of the high falootin logic games, Alfred. I want to know where the word "alone" is to be found in the text of 2 Timothy 3:15-17. Not even the GWN paraphrase you cited shows this.

If you are right, then it should be easy for you to show where Paul listed other literature besides scripture, as equipping the saints.
I'm not playing your logic games, Alfred. Show me where the word "alone" is to be found in 2 Timothy 3:15-17 and be done with it.

Its not required I convince you, nor that you stop begging the question ad infinitum.

That's your right.

I am confident who won this debate, who proved his point...and it wasn't you.

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« Reply #416 on: August 07, 2011, 08:07:12 PM »

Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.

Which part excludes everything, BUT scripture?

Chop... chop...


If Paul was speaking about other literature, and not scripture alone, it should be easy for you to quote him, proving that.

chop chop, time to answer the obvious...
You're not going to weasel your way out of my challenge by trying to turn the table around. Show me where the word "alone" is to be found in 2 Timothy 3:15-17.
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« Reply #417 on: August 07, 2011, 08:10:13 PM »

Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.

Which part excludes everything, BUT scripture?

Chop... chop...


If Paul was speaking about other literature, and not scripture alone, it should be easy for you to quote him, proving that.

chop chop, time to answer the obvious...
You're not going to weasel your way out of my challenge by trying to turn the table around. Show me where the word "alone" is to be found in 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

Before I do, tell me what literature you want included as inspired by God.
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« Reply #418 on: August 07, 2011, 08:10:53 PM »

Quote from: Alfred Persson
Its not required I convince you, nor that you stop begging the question ad infinitum.

That's your right.

I am confident who won this debate, who proved his point...and it wasn't you.

You still can't infer the word "alone," since it isn't in that verse.
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« Reply #419 on: August 07, 2011, 08:11:21 PM »

Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.

Which part excludes everything, BUT scripture?

Chop... chop...


If Paul was speaking about other literature, and not scripture alone, it should be easy for you to quote him, proving that.

chop chop, time to answer the obvious...
You're not going to weasel your way out of my challenge by trying to turn the table around. Show me where the word "alone" is to be found in 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

Before I do, tell me what literature you want included as inspired by God.
Not my assertion. Now just answer my challenge.
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« Reply #420 on: August 07, 2011, 08:13:14 PM »

Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.

Which part excludes everything, BUT scripture?

Chop... chop...


If Paul was speaking about other literature, and not scripture alone, it should be easy for you to quote him, proving that.

chop chop, time to answer the obvious...

What literature? St Paul acknowledged the Truth contained within scripture. In what way does this exclude Truth external to scripture?
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« Reply #421 on: August 07, 2011, 08:13:37 PM »

Alfred's the kinda guy who loses a game and can't believe he lost and tries everything to convince himself otherwise, even lunacy (which I'm sure is past that point now)
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« Reply #422 on: August 07, 2011, 08:14:32 PM »

Alfred's the kinda guy who loses a game and can't believe he lost and tries everything to convince himself otherwise, even lunacy (which I'm sure is past that point now)

chop, chop...
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« Reply #423 on: August 07, 2011, 08:15:14 PM »

Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.

Which part excludes everything, BUT scripture?

Chop... chop...


If Paul was speaking about other literature, and not scripture alone, it should be easy for you to quote him, proving that.

chop chop, time to answer the obvious...
You're not going to weasel your way out of my challenge by trying to turn the table around. Show me where the word "alone" is to be found in 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

Before I do, tell me what literature you want included as inspired by God.
Not my assertion. Now just answer my challenge.

It certainly is...you insist scripture isn't alone among literature inspired by God for correcting the saints.

You insist the word alone isn't there.

Now its time you reveal your agenda, what literature do you insist joins scripture as inspired by God.

Or have you just been argumentative all this time, arguing what you don't believe, refusing to accept the obvious...just to yank my chain.

Tell us what other literature God inspired...or be branded a "begger of the question".

Not a good title.
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« Reply #424 on: August 07, 2011, 08:16:40 PM »

Alfred's the kinda guy who loses a game and can't believe he lost and tries everything to convince himself otherwise, even lunacy (which I'm sure is past that point now)

How come you aren't waiting at the gate for my photo?
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« Reply #425 on: August 07, 2011, 08:18:25 PM »

Did God stop inspiration and Truth after scripture... as defined by Luther?
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« Reply #426 on: August 07, 2011, 08:18:48 PM »

The word "alone' isn't in the verse. Does it bother you that there are people who see fit to be Protestants but aren't sola scriptura, such as the Anglicans?

Didn't John say something in Revelation about not adding to or taking away from his words?
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« Reply #427 on: August 07, 2011, 08:19:44 PM »

Did God stop inspiration and Truth after scripture... as defined by Luther?

So an ecumenical council has canonized literature as inspired and truth, that isn't scripture.

What  books?

Isn't scripture alone among all literature that has been canonized as inspired by God for doctrine by ecumenical councils?

Scripture alone?


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« Reply #428 on: August 07, 2011, 08:21:11 PM »

Did God stop inspiration and Truth after scripture... as defined by Luther?

So an ecumenical council has canonized literature as inspired and truth, that isn't scripture.

What  books?

Precisely... what books? It isn't the Orthodox that limit the inspiration of God.
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« Reply #429 on: August 07, 2011, 08:22:08 PM »

Alfred's the kinda guy who loses a game and can't believe he lost and tries everything to convince himself otherwise, even lunacy (which I'm sure is past that point now)

How come you aren't waiting at the gate for my photo?
I couldn't wait alone.
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« Reply #430 on: August 07, 2011, 08:23:12 PM »

Did God stop inspiration and Truth after scripture... as defined by Luther?

So an ecumenical council has canonized literature as inspired and truth, that isn't scripture.

What  books?

Precisely... what books? It isn't the Orthodox that limit the inspiration of God.

Then Catholic Magisterium edicts are inspired by God?

Book of Mormon?

What books do you list, inquiring minds want to know.
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« Reply #431 on: August 07, 2011, 08:23:59 PM »

Alfred, does it bother you that many Protestant Bibles today include the Deuterocanonical books?

Does this verse also bother you:

John 21:25 (KJV)

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
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« Reply #432 on: August 07, 2011, 08:25:57 PM »

Did God stop inspiration and Truth after scripture... as defined by Luther?

So an ecumenical council has canonized literature as inspired and truth, that isn't scripture.

What  books?

Precisely... what books? It isn't the Orthodox that limit the inspiration of God.

Then Catholic Magisterium edicts are inspired by God?

Book of Mormon?

What books do you list, inquiring minds want to know.

Are the Orthodox "Roman Catholic"? Are they Mormon?

The Orthodox do not limit the inpiriation of God to a few books. While acknowledging the Truth contained within scripture, they also acknowledge the Truth continually expressed by the Saints.

They are not separate. That are a continuum.
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« Reply #433 on: August 07, 2011, 08:29:43 PM »

Alfred's the kinda guy who loses a game and can't believe he lost and tries everything to convince himself otherwise, even lunacy (which I'm sure is past that point now)

How come you aren't waiting at the gate for my photo?
I couldn't wait alone.

So not having others with you means you were "alone"?

That my dear, seems like a logical deduction.

Much like mine about Paul's statement:

As only scripture by itself is spoken of as inspired by God for correcting and equipping the church, and not other literature, it is alone.

Therefore as scripture is alone inspired by God for equipping the church, sola scriptura "only scripture has God's purpose infused in every verse so that it is profitable for doctrine, in order that the man of God be fully equipped:"

 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:15-17 NKJ)

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« Reply #434 on: August 07, 2011, 08:33:29 PM »

If the Holy Spirit was all wrapped up and done after the last page of the Bible, why isn't Alfred busy trying to build a time machine and get back to then, since present life could have no point?
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« Reply #435 on: August 07, 2011, 08:34:34 PM »

Did God stop inspiration and Truth after scripture... as defined by Luther?

So an ecumenical council has canonized literature as inspired and truth, that isn't scripture.

What  books?

Precisely... what books? It isn't the Orthodox that limit the inspiration of God.

Then Catholic Magisterium edicts are inspired by God?

Book of Mormon?

What books do you list, inquiring minds want to know.

Are the Orthodox "Roman Catholic"? Are they Mormon?

The Orthodox do not limit the inpiriation of God to a few books. While acknowledging the Truth contained within scripture, they also acknowledge the Truth continually expressed by the Saints.

They are not separate. That are a continuum.

Unfortunately for your position, Paul didn't mention the fathers as inspired by God.

Also bad for your position, is their contradicting each other, often and YOUR not following their chiliasm.

So that's how you treat inspired literature...you don't pay it much mind.

I already knew that, from your lack of concern about scripture.

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« Reply #436 on: August 07, 2011, 08:34:44 PM »

Alfred's the kinda guy who loses a game and can't believe he lost and tries everything to convince himself otherwise, even lunacy (which I'm sure is past that point now)

How come you aren't waiting at the gate for my photo?

Dude, seriously, your comments are getting a little creepy.
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« Reply #437 on: August 07, 2011, 08:36:24 PM »

Quote from: Alfred Persson
Unfortunately for your position, Paul didn't mention the fathers as inspired by God.

Are you aware that Paul is a saint in the Orthodox Church, and considered one of the Fathers?

Do you even know what you're talking about?
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« Reply #438 on: August 07, 2011, 08:36:32 PM »

Did God stop inspiration and Truth after scripture... as defined by Luther?

So an ecumenical council has canonized literature as inspired and truth, that isn't scripture.

What  books?

Precisely... what books? It isn't the Orthodox that limit the inspiration of God.

Then Catholic Magisterium edicts are inspired by God?

Book of Mormon?

What books do you list, inquiring minds want to know.

Are the Orthodox "Roman Catholic"? Are they Mormon?

The Orthodox do not limit the inpiriation of God to a few books. While acknowledging the Truth contained within scripture, they also acknowledge the Truth continually expressed by the Saints.

They are not separate. That are a continuum.

Unfortunately for your position, Paul didn't mention the fathers as inspired by God.

Also bad for your position, is their contradicting each other, often and YOUR not following their chiliasm.

So that's how you treat inspired literature...you don't pay it much mind.

I already knew that, from your lack of concern about scripture.

St Paul didn't reference words spoken in the future... weird...

Also, what contradiction do you profess?
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« Reply #439 on: August 07, 2011, 08:39:17 PM »

If scripture weren't alone in this regard, Paul would have said so---BECAUSE His theme is about God inspiring scripture which completely equips the saints, therefore if other literature was used by God for this purpose, he would have listed that also...as he listed scripture alone in this regard, it alone is inspired by God for this purpose.

That is clear.

And yet Paul could easily quote Greek poets. See Acts 17:28. He quoted Greek/Cretan prophets (Paul's word). See Titus 1:12. What IS clear is that Paul was familiar with literature other than the Scriptures and didn't hesitate to use the truth he found there. God has not limited Himself to the pages between the covers of one book.
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« Reply #440 on: August 07, 2011, 08:46:54 PM »

If scripture weren't alone in this regard, Paul would have said so---BECAUSE His theme is about God inspiring scripture which completely equips the saints, therefore if other literature was used by God for this purpose, he would have listed that also...as he listed scripture alone in this regard, it alone is inspired by God for this purpose.

That is clear.

And yet Paul could easily quote Greek poets. See Acts 17:28. He quoted Greek/Cretan prophets (Paul's word). See Titus 1:12. What IS clear is that Paul was familiar with literature other than the Scriptures and didn't hesitate to use the truth he found there. God has not limited Himself to the pages between the covers of one book.

There is an aspect to this you overlooked. Every verse of scripture is profitable for doctrine, God says so through Paul:

Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. (2Ti 3:16 ASV)


That isn't true of all other literature, scripture is "alone" in this regard.

Hence "sola scriptura" for it alone is inspired by God so that every verse is profitable for doctrine, in order that the man of God be fully equipped:

That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work. (2Ti 3:17 ASV)
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« Reply #441 on: August 07, 2011, 08:48:36 PM »

A-l-o-n-e.

It's not there.
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« Reply #442 on: August 07, 2011, 09:06:44 PM »

Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.

Which part excludes everything, BUT scripture?

Chop... chop...


If Paul was speaking about other literature, and not scripture alone, it should be easy for you to quote him, proving that.

chop chop, time to answer the obvious...
You're not going to weasel your way out of my challenge by trying to turn the table around. Show me where the word "alone" is to be found in 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

Before I do, tell me what literature you want included as inspired by God.
Not my assertion. Now just answer my challenge.

It certainly is...you insist scripture isn't alone among literature inspired by God for correcting the saints.
I said no such thing. You have to put words into my mouth to make it look as if I insist that. (You're acting like a cornered animal looking for a weakness to strike.) Now, back to my challenge to you.

You insist the word alone isn't there.
Because it isn't there. You have to go through a lot of rhetorical hoops to read the word "alone" into the text, but the word isn't there.

Now its time you reveal your agenda, what literature do you insist joins scripture as inspired by God.
No agenda. I just want you to answer my challenge. Is that simple task too hard for you? Where is the word "alone" in 2 Timothy 3:15-17?
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« Reply #443 on: August 07, 2011, 09:09:19 PM »

If scripture weren't alone in this regard, Paul would have said so---BECAUSE His theme is about God inspiring scripture which completely equips the saints, therefore if other literature was used by God for this purpose, he would have listed that also...as he listed scripture alone in this regard, it alone is inspired by God for this purpose.

That is clear.

And yet Paul could easily quote Greek poets. See Acts 17:28. He quoted Greek/Cretan prophets (Paul's word). See Titus 1:12. What IS clear is that Paul was familiar with literature other than the Scriptures and didn't hesitate to use the truth he found there. God has not limited Himself to the pages between the covers of one book.

There is an aspect to this you overlooked. Every verse of scripture is profitable for doctrine, God says so through Paul:

Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. (2Ti 3:16 ASV)

Overlooked exactly what? Where have I ever denied that "Every verse of scripture is profitable for doctrine" ? Where?

The Apostle Paul read non-Scriptural literature and found truth in it which was "profitable for teaching". He did not quote Scripture alone. Solā Scripturā is your doctrine - not St Paul's.
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« Reply #444 on: August 07, 2011, 09:10:44 PM »

Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.

Which part excludes everything, BUT scripture?

Chop... chop...


If Paul was speaking about other literature, and not scripture alone, it should be easy for you to quote him, proving that.

chop chop, time to answer the obvious...
You're not going to weasel your way out of my challenge by trying to turn the table around. Show me where the word "alone" is to be found in 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

Before I do, tell me what literature you want included as inspired by God.
Not my assertion. Now just answer my challenge.

It certainly is...you insist scripture isn't alone among literature inspired by God for correcting the saints.
I said no such thing. You have to put words into my mouth to make it look as if I insist that. Now, back to my challenge to you.

You insist the word alone isn't there.
Because it isn't there. You have to go through a lot of rhetorical hoops to read the word "alone" into the text, but the word isn't there.

Now its time you reveal your agenda, what literature do you insist joins scripture as inspired by God.
No agenda. I just want you to answer my challenge. Is that simple task too hard for you? Where is the word "alone" in 2 Timothy 3:15-17?

What books do you say also have every sentence inspired by God to be profitable for doctrine, like Paul says the Bible is.

 16 Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.
 17 That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17 ASV)

If the Bible isn't alone in this regard, what are the others.

If you cannot list any, then it is alone and I don't need to prove the word is in the text, you prove the word is implied...and is reality.

So answer, what other literature has every sentence inspired by God to be profitable for doctrine....chop chop, quit stalling.
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« Reply #445 on: August 07, 2011, 09:12:10 PM »

Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.

Which part excludes everything, BUT scripture?

Chop... chop...


If Paul was speaking about other literature, and not scripture alone, it should be easy for you to quote him, proving that.

chop chop, time to answer the obvious...
You're not going to weasel your way out of my challenge by trying to turn the table around. Show me where the word "alone" is to be found in 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

Before I do, tell me what literature you want included as inspired by God.
Not my assertion. Now just answer my challenge.

It certainly is...you insist scripture isn't alone among literature inspired by God for correcting the saints.
I said no such thing. You have to put words into my mouth to make it look as if I insist that. Now, back to my challenge to you.

You insist the word alone isn't there.
Because it isn't there. You have to go through a lot of rhetorical hoops to read the word "alone" into the text, but the word isn't there.

Now its time you reveal your agenda, what literature do you insist joins scripture as inspired by God.
No agenda. I just want you to answer my challenge. Is that simple task too hard for you? Where is the word "alone" in 2 Timothy 3:15-17?

What books do you say also have every sentence inspired by God to be profitable for doctrine, like Paul says the Bible is.
I'm not saying anything, except that you're trying exceptionally hard to avoid answering my challenge.
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« Reply #446 on: August 07, 2011, 09:13:29 PM »

What books do you say also have every sentence inspired by God to be profitable for doctrine, like Paul says the Bible is.

What is "the Bible"? What was "scripture" during the time of St Paul?
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« Reply #447 on: August 07, 2011, 09:17:46 PM »

If scripture weren't alone in this regard, Paul would have said so---BECAUSE His theme is about God inspiring scripture which completely equips the saints, therefore if other literature was used by God for this purpose, he would have listed that also...as he listed scripture alone in this regard, it alone is inspired by God for this purpose.

That is clear.

And yet Paul could easily quote Greek poets. See Acts 17:28. He quoted Greek/Cretan prophets (Paul's word). See Titus 1:12. What IS clear is that Paul was familiar with literature other than the Scriptures and didn't hesitate to use the truth he found there. God has not limited Himself to the pages between the covers of one book.

There is an aspect to this you overlooked. Every verse of scripture is profitable for doctrine, God says so through Paul:

Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. (2Ti 3:16 ASV)

Overlooked exactly what? Where have I ever denied that "Every verse of scripture is profitable for doctrine" ? Where?

The Apostle Paul read non-Scriptural literature and found truth in it which was "profitable for teaching". He did not quote Scripture alone. Solā Scripturā is your doctrine - not St Paul's.

Yes, Paul read those, but NO, he wasn't referring to them in 2 Tim 3:15ff.

THAT is what you overlooked, the wording of the Bible text that makes the Bible unique, every verse is inspired, unlike those poets you mentioned...hence the Bible is alone in this regard.
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« Reply #448 on: August 07, 2011, 09:22:02 PM »

Which word or phrase precisely, in the above text;  refers to the other literature you would have is inspired by God for equipping the saints.

Chop chop, answer please.

Which part excludes everything, BUT scripture?

Chop... chop...


If Paul was speaking about other literature, and not scripture alone, it should be easy for you to quote him, proving that.

chop chop, time to answer the obvious...
You're not going to weasel your way out of my challenge by trying to turn the table around. Show me where the word "alone" is to be found in 2 Timothy 3:15-17.

Before I do, tell me what literature you want included as inspired by God.
Not my assertion. Now just answer my challenge.

It certainly is...you insist scripture isn't alone among literature inspired by God for correcting the saints.
I said no such thing. You have to put words into my mouth to make it look as if I insist that. Now, back to my challenge to you.

You insist the word alone isn't there.
Because it isn't there. You have to go through a lot of rhetorical hoops to read the word "alone" into the text, but the word isn't there.

Now its time you reveal your agenda, what literature do you insist joins scripture as inspired by God.
No agenda. I just want you to answer my challenge. Is that simple task too hard for you? Where is the word "alone" in 2 Timothy 3:15-17?

What books do you say also have every sentence inspired by God to be profitable for doctrine, like Paul says the Bible is.
I'm not saying anything, except that you're trying exceptionally hard to avoid answering my challenge.

You don't have any books whose every verse is inspired by God to be beneficial for doctrine, yet you argue the Bible isn't alone in this regard...

Amazing.

You argue for argument's sake.

That's your right.

ps: your argument is a straw man, I never said the word "alone" is in the verse, I said it is deducible...and you confirm this reality as you are unable to list any other books that are like the Bible.

The Bible isn't one book among many as you evidently suppose, its alone among all books, every verse of it is inspired by God.


 16 Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.
 17 That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17 ASV)
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« Reply #449 on: August 07, 2011, 09:24:53 PM »

Quote from: Alfred Persson
You argue for argument's sake.

And the award for chutzpah goes to...  laugh
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