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Author Topic: A Few Questions (Praying, Icon Stands, Jurisdictions)  (Read 1874 times) Average Rating: 0
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TristanCross
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« on: July 20, 2011, 11:57:07 PM »

Hey, everyone!

I have a few questions I need to ask. I've been lacking in my prayer life for a while. I do pray, but it is usually spontaneous and takes place at any given time. At one point, though, I did pray the morning and evening prayers given in an Orthodox prayer application on my cell phone. I also prayed the Jesus prayer sometimes. However, I didn't have a set time in saying those prayers and I never was very pious while praying (I'd pray while smoking cigarettes, watching TV, or while trying to go to sleep). I am going to go to my first Divine Liturgy this Sunday and Father Michael says that after he will give me a calender and that he wants me to become a part of the community there. My first question are: Do you suppose Father Michael will give me a Prayer Rule when I go there? If he doesn't, should I ask for one?

Secondly, I was reading this today and it shows how Orthodox Christians have icon stands that they pray in front of. Now, the site mentions that you should have a cross, a Bible, an icon of Christ, an icon of the Blessed Theotokos, an icon of my patron saint, a prayer book, and an incense burner. I want to make my own icon stand, but should I wait and find out which prayer book my parish uses? Also, do I pick my own patron saint and is there a specific type of cross I should get?

Last question (If I asked this once before, I apologize): This is the parish I will be going to. It is a OCA parish in Wappingers Falls, NY. Of what Jurisdiction would that be (I honestly don't know much about jurisdictions yet).
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2011, 12:14:11 AM »

I am going to go to my first Divine Liturgy this Sunday and Father Michael says that after he will give me a calender and that he wants me to become a part of the community there. My first question are: Do you suppose Father Michael will give me a Prayer Rule when I go there? If he doesn't, should I ask for one?

I hope things go well on Sunday Smiley Regarding a prayer rule, I'm not sure. It depends on how much contact you've had with him, how he goes about things, and other factors. If you want you can always tell him about wanting to have a prayer rule to do consistently, and see where things go from there. Maybe he'll be ultra specific, maybe he'll just suggest a prayer book or two, or maybe he'll say something else entirely.

Quote
Secondly, I was reading this today and it shows how Orthodox Christians have icon stands that they pray in front of. Now, the site mentions that you should have a cross, a Bible, an icon of Christ, an icon of the Blessed Theotokos, an icon of my patron saint, a prayer book, and an incense burner. I want to make my own icon stand, but should I wait and find out which prayer book my parish uses? Also, do I pick my own patron saint and is there a specific type of cross I should get?

Again I won't be much help... cause it's up to you Smiley  I don't see anything wrong with getting icons or whatever else before you have a prayer book. Spontaneous prayer or the Jesus Prayer before an icon will work while you wait. There are differing opinions on crosses, incense burners, etc. Ask your priest if you aren't sure, or just get what seems best for you for now. Regarding choosing a patron saint, that process also can vary. Generally if you already have a Christian name, it's encouraged that you choose a patron saint with that name, though that's not necessarily set in stone. The patron saint should be someone that you connect with on some level beyond "his icon looks cool".  Grin  

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Last question (If I asked this once before, I apologize): This is the parish I will be going to. It is a OCA parish in Wappingers Falls, NY. Of what Jurisdiction would that be (I honestly don't know much about jurisdictions yet).

You already answered your own question: it's part of the OCA, or Orthodox Church in America.  Wink  Not knowing a lot about jurisdictions is probably a good thing, it just makes things confusing! If you can work out your salvation and worship God at that parish, then you're in the right place!
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2011, 12:36:10 AM »

A prayer rule?  Are you joining a monastic community.  Pray what your heart wants you to pray.
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2011, 12:43:15 AM »

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My first question are: Do you suppose Father Michael will give me a Prayer Rule when I go there? If he doesn't, should I ask for one?

The best thing is to go with what he tells you.  He's evaluating your spiritual state so that means you have to be totally honest with him.  Whatever he gives or doesn't give, just accept that.  You already know what regular prayers to say.  Your conscience is your guide and over time your prayer rule will develop.  Most important is that the prayers have meaning to you.  But, as a beginner you should try to stick to the prayer book format.  It will give you the foundation.

Quote
Secondly, I was reading this today and it shows how Orthodox Christians have icon stands that they pray in front of. Now, the site mentions that you should have a cross, a Bible, an icon of Christ, an icon of the Blessed Theotokos, an icon of my patron saint, a prayer book, and an incense burner. I want to make my own icon stand, but should I wait and find out which prayer book my parish uses? Also, do I pick my own patron saint and is there a specific type of cross I should get?

The icon corner can start with the basics, Christ and the Theotokos.  Then you can add the saints that bring meaning to you.  There should be a vigil light.  I keep my Bible in my night stand.  But, that's just my situation.  I don't know why you would need to know which prayer book the parish uses.  To add, any Cross is fine.  It's the Cross.
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2011, 07:44:57 AM »

Just to let you know. From my readings looks like smoking is a show stopper and is going to hell. I don't know if even eastern orthodoxy can help with that. The problem may be that it goes against health.

Replace it with cofee if need something to relax or with sport. You won't be able to renounce in 1 day. Every week take out one cigar or if hard half a cigar.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 07:57:14 AM by pasadi97 » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2011, 07:47:12 AM »

Just to let you know. From my readings looks like smoking is a show stopper and is going to hell.

What's your source on that?

Tristan, you don't need a censer or a lot of icons. All that stuff is nice but you don't need to buy a bunch of stuff to be Orthodox or have a strong prayer life.
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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2011, 07:58:50 AM »

stories plus 24 toll houses with number 23 being toll house that stopped smokers. In the end God knows.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 08:05:32 AM by pasadi97 » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2011, 09:20:58 AM »

stories plus 24 toll houses with number 23 being toll house that stopped smokers. In the end God knows.



The idea is that end of life should not catch you smoking and at the end of life, previous smoking has to be confessed.
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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2011, 09:28:34 AM »

stories plus 24 toll houses with number 23 being toll house that stopped smokers.
And what's your source on that? You ever been through the toll houses to know that there are exactly 24 and what specifically each of the 24 is for?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 09:29:48 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2011, 09:39:38 AM »

A prayer rule?  Are you joining a monastic community.  Pray what your heart wants you to pray.

My parish has a parish prayer rule that is a suggested rule based upon the teachings of the Holy Fathers and traditional in practice for prayer that is simple and easy for new converts and cradles use. Some like the parish prayer rule and others develop with their spiritual fathers/mothers deeper prayer rules that help them develop individually under spiritual direction.

We all have to start somewhere andthis helps the newly converted start a traditional, orthodox prayer rule rather being left to try something beyond their baby abilities that may overwhelm them and cause them to waiver in their spiritual growth by trying something beyond their capabilities. Monasteries do this withtheir new novices----their prayer rule is much different from a schema monk's paryer rule.

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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2011, 11:11:48 AM »

A prayer rule?  Are you joining a monastic community.  Pray what your heart wants you to pray.

A prayer rule can be very helpful, and not just for monks. For those of us who lack some discipline in our prayer life, it can be an amazing tool. I know I need one.
Just to let you know. From my readings looks like smoking is a show stopper and is going to hell. I don't know if even eastern orthodoxy can help with that. The problem may be that it goes against health.

Replace it with cofee if need something to relax or with sport. You won't be able to renounce in 1 day. Every week take out one cigar or if hard half a cigar.

A show stopper? Someone might want to let God know that He can't let smokers in. And here I thought He got to make the calls. How silly.

Also, don't tell St. Maria Skobtsova.
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2011, 11:26:20 AM »

I thought toll houses werent an Orthodox belief...at least thats what I've read 1,000 times on this site.

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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2011, 12:38:09 PM »

stories plus 24 toll houses with number 23 being toll house that stopped smokers. In the end God knows.



It apparently didn't stop St. Nikoali Velimirovic who was something of a chain smoker. A little humility and fidelity and repentance on our part, and an ocean of God's grace conquer all demonic obstacles.
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2011, 12:41:05 PM »

I thought toll houses werent an Orthodox belief...at least thats what I've read 1,000 times on this site.

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It depends on who you talk to, and what their understanding is. The Church dogmatizes about the particular judgment, that which each person receives after death, receiving a foretaste of blessedness or torment according to his deeds--and this is a changeable state through the prayers of the Church, but the Church does not attempt to speak of the mystery of death in obsessive detail.
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2011, 02:37:36 PM »

stories plus 24 toll houses with number 23 being toll house that stopped smokers. In the end God knows.



The idea is that end of life should not catch you smoking and at the end of life, previous smoking has to be confessed.

The standard presentation of the toll houses has 20 stops, none of which is for smoking. Okay, so maybe you heard this somewhere... and you heard some "stories"... does this really give you the confidence to tell someone else that he's damned? That's really irresponsible.
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« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2011, 03:26:20 PM »

http://orthodoxchristian.blogspot.com/2009/11/what-is-christian-view-of-smoking-is.html In the end lets say is a great risk. That you can overcome this by doing good, I think is possible and in the end the judgement belongs to God.

In some instances, if you commune before death, since God is in you I don't think you go through toll houses. To say is a show stopper was wrong. Sorry. Now why my romanian book lists 24 toll houses and in wikipedia there are 20? Interesting but I have no idea as to why.

 There are other instances , many that I don't know when this can be overcomed.
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« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2011, 04:51:41 PM »

http://orthodoxchristian.blogspot.com/2009/11/what-is-christian-view-of-smoking-is.html In the end lets say is a great risk. That you can overcome this by doing good, I think is possible and in the end the judgement belongs to God.

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Sorry. Now why my romanian book lists 24 toll houses and in wikipedia there are 20? Interesting but I have no idea as to why.

Doesn't the number of tollhouses ultimately depend on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
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« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2011, 06:09:28 PM »

I thought toll houses werent an Orthodox belief...at least thats what I've read 1,000 times on this site.

primuspilus

Sorry buddy.
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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2011, 10:14:13 PM »

Does anyone have any detailed info, or perhaps a video, on using oil lamps?  Also, does anyone know where to buy an oil lamp kit, with the lamp, the wick, and anything else you need (except the oil, though coming with it would be fine too).  Also, is regular olive oil from the store fine to use?
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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2011, 10:25:43 PM »

http://orthodoxchristian.blogspot.com/2009/11/what-is-christian-view-of-smoking-is.html In the end lets say is a great risk. That you can overcome this by doing good, I think is possible and in the end the judgement belongs to God.

In some instances, if you commune before death, since God is in you I don't think you go through toll houses. To say is a show stopper was wrong. Sorry. Now why my romanian book lists 24 toll houses and in wikipedia there are 20? Interesting but I have no idea as to why.

 There are other instances , many that I don't know when this can be overcomed.


That blogspot article's source is gotquestions.org, an evangelical Protestant website that believes in four-point Calvinism, the rapture, and other heresies.

Anywho, I don't understand how this topic became about smoking and I sure wish my thread wasn't hijacked...whatever...
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2011, 10:38:09 PM »

Does anyone have any detailed info, or perhaps a video, on using oil lamps?  Also, does anyone know where to buy an oil lamp kit, with the lamp, the wick, and anything else you need (except the oil, though coming with it would be fine too).  Also, is regular olive oil from the store fine to use?

What I use is a plain glass (short), put part water (1/3) and the rest oil.  You can use olive oil or canola oil.  The floating cork thingy needs to be bought at a Greek store. Do you have a Greek community near you?  I don't see it sold anywhere else, at least in my neck of the woods.  They come with little wax nibs.  If you want the actual lamp, maybe an Orthodox Church near you sells the items. Or buy it on line by an Orthodox store.
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2011, 01:03:54 AM »

So far as I know, there are no Orthodox stores, Greek or otherwise, in Arizona (certainly none close to me).  Is there anywhere the cork piece can be bought, online?
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2011, 07:26:35 AM »

Sure. 

http://www.archangelsbooks.com/products.asp?cat=Orthodox+Vigil+Lamps

As for Orthodox stores in Arizona, there's the monastery, but doesn't look like they sell wicks and floaters although they must have a source.

http://www.stanthonysmonastery.org/
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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2011, 10:13:36 AM »

Reminder that Toll Houses discussions  are to be found in the Faith Issues Forum please keep it there it is not a topic for the Convert Issues Forum due to the complexity and isssue is a theolegumen (Theological thought or opinion) of the Churchthat is still being debated and is not dogma. I usually divide or divert Toll house discussions when they arise to that forum---I would appreciate not having to do that to this appropriate topic ---A Few Questions (Praying, Icon Stands, Jurisdictions)--- Let us commonly admit that theolegumen (Theological thought or opinion) of the Church at times varies jurisdiction by jurisdiction and sometimes within the same jursidiction as it is not dogn=ma it is not binding on our belief system.

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« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2011, 02:37:16 PM »

http://orthodoxchristian.blogspot.com/2009/11/what-is-christian-view-of-smoking-is.html In the end lets say is a great risk. That you can overcome this by doing good, I think is possible and in the end the judgement belongs to God.

In some instances, if you commune before death, since God is in you I don't think you go through toll houses. To say is a show stopper was wrong. Sorry. Now why my romanian book lists 24 toll houses and in wikipedia there are 20? Interesting but I have no idea as to why.

 There are other instances , many that I don't know when this can be overcomed.


That blogspot article's source is gotquestions.org, an evangelical Protestant website that believes in four-point Calvinism, the rapture, and other heresies.

Anywho, I don't understand how this topic became about smoking and I sure wish my thread wasn't hijacked...whatever...
I am sorry.
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« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2011, 07:57:50 PM »

Sure. 

http://www.archangelsbooks.com/products.asp?cat=Orthodox+Vigil+Lamps

As for Orthodox stores in Arizona, there's the monastery, but doesn't look like they sell wicks and floaters although they must have a source.

http://www.stanthonysmonastery.org/

Thank you
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