Author Topic: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?  (Read 20661 times)

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Offline mersch

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #90 on: July 20, 2011, 11:41:18 AM »
NO

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Sorry, wasn't aware of that.  I was just answering the the question for the topic, which to me is a yes or no answer, and only needed to be expanded on if no one else had brought up the reasons for my answer-which some have, so as not repeat. Please accept my apologies.

Offline Monk Vasyl

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #91 on: July 20, 2011, 03:16:42 PM »
Not only women, but tourists, too should be excluded from the Holy Mountain.  These men have gone there for the solitude conducive for prayer, why destroy that?
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #92 on: July 20, 2011, 04:05:32 PM »
Not only women, but tourists, too should be excluded from the Holy Mountain.  These men have gone there for the solitude conducive for prayer, why destroy that?
Are tourists currently allowed? I hope not.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #93 on: July 20, 2011, 04:07:04 PM »
My apologies to everyone. That all came across a little more harshly than I had really intended. Please forgive me.
I forgive you. And please forgive me for responding in anger.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #94 on: July 20, 2011, 04:16:35 PM »

I 100% support the idea of NO women on the Mount.

I have a suggestion.

What if everyone treats the Holy Mount, as if it were an Altar....thereby not letting ANYONE, without a direct purpose and permission from hierarchs/clergy, enter it.

Therefore, it would not only prohibit all women, but, some men, as well!  That way some women wouldn't feel slighted.

...just a thought.

(Personal grievance....that too many men enter the Altar just because they think that because they are "men" they can! ....just saying.)

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Stephen St. Pierre

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #95 on: July 20, 2011, 04:36:56 PM »
My apologies to everyone. That all came across a little more harshly than I had really intended. Please forgive me.
I forgive you. And please forgive me for responding in anger.

Of course! Thank you Volnutt. I've always been a "sticks & stones" type of guy and my lips (or fingers) often get ahead of me.

Augustin especially I need to apologize to: I am very sorry now for calling you a liar. Please forgive me.

But I still have to say that I find your anecdote hard to believe. You're essentially talking about open promiscuity in a monastery. Isn't it possible that you misunderstood a purely friendly gesture? Why jump to conclusions in automatically thinking the worst of a monk's actions? This surely comes very close to being slander; unless he actually vocally admitted to being homosexual and propositioned you or something - you could easily have misread the man (men?) wouldn't you say?

Again, please forgive me.


Offline Volnutt

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #96 on: July 20, 2011, 05:25:52 PM »

I 100% support the idea of NO women on the Mount.

I have a suggestion.

What if everyone treats the Holy Mount, as if it were an Altar....thereby not letting ANYONE, without a direct purpose and permission from hierarchs/clergy, enter it.

Therefore, it would not only prohibit all women, but, some men, as well!  That way some women wouldn't feel slighted.

...just a thought.

(Personal grievance....that too many men enter the Altar just because they think that because they are "men" they can! ....just saying.)


Good ideas. I agree.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #97 on: July 20, 2011, 05:30:40 PM »
Not only women, but tourists, too should be excluded from the Holy Mountain.  These men have gone there for the solitude conducive for prayer, why destroy that?
Are tourists currently allowed? I hope not.

Passes are given to 10 non-Greek or non-Orthodox males per day. There is a fine line between pilgrimage and tourism, I've found.
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Offline fatman2021

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #98 on: July 20, 2011, 05:53:29 PM »
"A growing number of Orthodox women are protesting the ban, asserting what they say is their theological and political rights to share in the mystical fruits of this symbol of Orthodox spirituality.
....
Dositej Hilandarac, a monk from the Athonian monastery Hilandar, explains that it's not a problem with women per se, but the fact that Athos monasteries function in accordance with Avaton rule (meaning literally: entry is prohibited), which strictly forbids females from entering the Holy Mount.
....
There is one way even the monks agree the ban could be overturned. That is when creation is restored to the paradise of the Garden of Eden before Adam and Eve defied God, said one Orthodox leader on the Holy Mount.

 The prohibition "could be abolished if human beings could be as simple as they were before the original sin," said Athonian Father Christos Mitsios. "If this was the case, not even God could enforce an Avaton."

No, no, and a thousand times no!
O God be merciful to me a sinner. You, O Lord who created me, have mercy on me. I have sinned without number,O Lord, have mercy on me and forgive me, a sinner.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #99 on: July 20, 2011, 05:54:10 PM »
So if you're Greek you can go whenever you want?
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #100 on: July 20, 2011, 06:20:42 PM »
So if you're Greek you can go whenever you want?

I think you still need permission, but there are no limits to the number of Greek men who can visit, AFAIK.
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #101 on: July 20, 2011, 06:23:53 PM »
Passes are given to 10 non-Greek or non-Orthodox males per day. There is a fine line between pilgrimage and tourism, I've found.

If you are a convert to Orthodoxy, and were chrismated but not baptized, do you count as one of the 10 non-Orthodox?
"We are all human beans. What is left now is for each of us to grow to our full potential in Christ." - Abba Hezekiah

Offline Kasatkin fan

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #102 on: July 20, 2011, 07:30:22 PM »
Passes are given to 10 non-Greek or non-Orthodox males per day. There is a fine line between pilgrimage and tourism, I've found.

If you are a convert to Orthodoxy, and were chrismated but not baptized, do you count as one of the 10 non-Orthodox?
My understanding is that anyone in Communion with the Orthodox Church counts as Orthodox, regardless of reception.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #103 on: July 20, 2011, 07:33:39 PM »
Passes are given to 10 non-Greek or non-Orthodox males per day. There is a fine line between pilgrimage and tourism, I've found.

If you are a convert to Orthodoxy, and were chrismated but not baptized, do you count as one of the 10 non-Orthodox?
My understanding is that anyone in Communion with the Orthodox Church counts as Orthodox, regardless of reception.

I hope that's the case for most on Athos...
"We are all human beans. What is left now is for each of us to grow to our full potential in Christ." - Abba Hezekiah

Offline Kasatkin fan

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #104 on: July 20, 2011, 07:36:01 PM »
Passes are given to 10 non-Greek or non-Orthodox males per day. There is a fine line between pilgrimage and tourism, I've found.

If you are a convert to Orthodoxy, and were chrismated but not baptized, do you count as one of the 10 non-Orthodox?
My understanding is that anyone in Communion with the Orthodox Church counts as Orthodox, regardless of reception.

I hope that's the case for most on Athos...

One of the requirements of going is having a specific monastery you are visiting. Obviously the individual monasteries can decide that you don't count as Orthodox if they want, although I've never heard any stories of people being refused access.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #105 on: July 20, 2011, 07:39:18 PM »
Is Esphigmenou off limits to everyone?
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #106 on: July 20, 2011, 07:51:22 PM »
One of the requirements of going is having a specific monastery you are visiting. Obviously the individual monasteries can decide that you don't count as Orthodox if they want, although I've never heard any stories of people being refused access.

I've not heard anything about people being banned or refused access, but I have heard stories about people being refused communion, and also stories about people being given conditional baptisms (and then told not to say anything about it). It's not like I'm planning on taking a trip to Mount Athos next week, but I would like to visit monasteries more often after I finish school, and it'd be nice to know what the situation is.
"We are all human beans. What is left now is for each of us to grow to our full potential in Christ." - Abba Hezekiah

Offline BoredMeeting

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #107 on: July 21, 2011, 10:01:08 AM »
(Personal grievance....that too many men enter the Altar just because they think that because they are "men" they can! ....just saying.)

I find that very curious. In the parishes that I've attended, you need to have a liturgical reason to go behind the altar, such as when the reader enters for the blessing or if you will be assisting.

At my current parish, when they bring the list of names (for special prayers) from the candle table to the altar, the man bringing the list waits outside the deacon's door until someone inside takes the note from him. He doesn't have permission to just go walking in.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #108 on: July 21, 2011, 10:03:35 AM »
Is Esphigmenou off limits to everyone?

No one prevents you from admission to Esphigmenou but Esphigmenou. I've heard anecdotally that they ask you at the gate if you think it's possible for the pope of Rome to be saved. If you do, sorry, you stay outside. But you might be able to get in if you say you don't think the Ecumenical Patriarch can be saved.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 10:04:19 AM by Shanghaiski »
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
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Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #109 on: July 21, 2011, 10:12:21 AM »
Is Esphigmenou off limits to everyone?

No one prevents you from admission to Esphigmenou but Esphigmenou. I've heard anecdotally that they ask you at the gate if you think it's possible for the pope of Rome to be saved. If you do, sorry, you stay outside. But you might be able to get in if you say you don't think the Ecumenical Patriarch can be saved.

Is the monastery still blockaded by Greek police?

http://www.esphigmenou.com/

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Should Women be Allowed on Holy Mount Athos?
« Reply #110 on: July 21, 2011, 10:13:16 AM »
Is Esphigmenou off limits to everyone?

No one prevents you from admission to Esphigmenou but Esphigmenou. I've heard anecdotally that they ask you at the gate if you think it's possible for the pope of Rome to be saved. If you do, sorry, you stay outside. But you might be able to get in if you say you don't think the Ecumenical Patriarch can be saved.

Wave around a few US dollars and you can get in to anywhere. Even if you are the devil himself. LOL