OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 22, 2014, 04:39:09 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The spirit of Assisi: It came from Moscow  (Read 895 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« on: July 20, 2011, 06:59:14 AM »

"It’s been known for some time: in September Benedict XVI will go to Assisi to commemorate the great interreligious meeting held there nearly 25 years ago by John Paul II.
....
No one seems to remember that the first Convention to include clergy of all religions was not at Assisi, and was not even initiated by the Catholic Church. In fact, in June 1977 there was an event organized by the Patriarchate of Moscow – led at that time by Patriarch Pimen – which brought thousands of religious leaders from around the world to Moscow for ten days...."
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Moderated
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I'm Greek and proud of it, damn it!
Posts: 6,279



« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2011, 10:02:50 PM »

Ok. So what?  What did you want to discuss with this.

Regardless of who actually organized the first and largest inter-religious gathering, whether Orthodox hierarch or Roman pope, such gatherings which propogate the idea that all religions are merely different but equal expressions of the worship of the same god or divine manifestation are scandalous and more harmful than good
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2011, 10:21:40 PM »

...whether Orthodox hierarch or Roman pope, such gatherings which propogate the idea that all religions are merely different but equal expressions of the worship of the same god or divine manifestation are scandalous and more harmful than good

I'm inclined to agree.
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2011, 10:22:16 PM »

Regardless of who actually organized the first and largest inter-religious gathering, whether Orthodox hierarch or Roman pope, such gatherings which propogate the idea that all religions are merely different but equal expressions of the worship of the same god or divine manifestation are scandalous and more harmful than good

Forgive me for jumping in, but don't you think it matters who is responsible?
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 30,534


« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2011, 10:23:32 PM »

Regardless of who actually organized the first and largest inter-religious gathering, whether Orthodox hierarch or Roman pope, such gatherings which propogate the idea that all religions are merely different but equal expressions of the worship of the same god or divine manifestation are scandalous and more harmful than good

Forgive me for jumping in, but don't you think it matters who is responsible?

We shall cover our Father's nakedness...
Logged

Large Marge sent me...
bogdan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,615



« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2011, 10:42:05 PM »

In Moscow were they putting Buddha statues on the altars of Orthodox churches and worshiping pagan gods inside their church temples? Because that happened at Assisi.

I'm totally against this pluralism and singing kumbayah with pagans, but I can at least understand the misguided sentiment. It crosses another line entirely when they are allowed to defile Christian altars with their rubbish. I don't think Patriarch Pimen went that far.

Assisi and similar menageries, whoever they're hosted by, should be remembered only for the sake of warning future generations. +Pimen may have started it, but the Roman church unfortunately made it worse, and now the pope is celebrating it. It's unfortunate to me.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 10:43:37 PM by bogdan » Logged
deusveritasest
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Jurisdiction: None
Posts: 7,528



WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2011, 11:19:24 PM »

Regardless of who actually organized the first and largest inter-religious gathering, whether Orthodox hierarch or Roman pope, such gatherings which propogate the idea that all religions are merely different but equal expressions of the worship of the same god or divine manifestation are scandalous and more harmful than good

Forgive me for jumping in, but don't you think it matters who is responsible?

Why?

You want to play the blame game?

I don't see what would be such a big deal in laying blame on the feet of a bishop of Moscow.

But I still don't see the point.
Logged

I stopped posting here in August 2011 because of stark disagreement with the policies of the administration and moderating team of the forums. If you desire, feel free to PM me, message me on Facebook (link in profile), or email me: cddombrowski@gmail.com
Opus118
Site Supporter
Warned
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,709



« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 11:44:57 PM »

Perhaps it is just me, but I read the entire article and I still do not understand what issues Gianni Gennari (Roman theologian and vaticanologist for RAI) is trying to convey. I got lost on the first paragraph (does Council = Vatican II?) and it went downhill from there. I am getting some inkling as replies come in.
Logged
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2011, 06:49:31 AM »

Perhaps it is just me, but I read the entire article and I still do not understand what issues Gianni Gennari (Roman theologian and vaticanologist for RAI) is trying to convey. I got lost on the first paragraph (does Council = Vatican II?) and it went downhill from there. I am getting some inkling as replies come in.

Yes, "Council" is "Vatican II", which has been critiqued by some traditionalist Catholics, for either being too ecumenical, or for being interpreted as being too ecumenical. Gennari is saying that Vatican II's approach to salvation is not "all faiths are equal", but "God's ways are mysterioius" -- and it's the latter understanding that should be kept in mind whenever representatives of other faiths take part in events like Assissi. (The fact that the Moscow Patriarch did it "first" would be further evidence that "God's ways are mysterious" is in fact the "traditional" foundational assumption regarding salvation.) Gennari writes:

The salvation proclaimed as final and eternal comes from Jesus Christ, God and Son of God, and only from Him in His being both eternal and incarnate, dead and risen, present in the Church and mysteriously in every man of good will, because salvation is meant for all men. It is a universal vocation proclaimed by Scripture and correctly reiterated by the Council, which is and remains the North Star for Joseph Ratzinger’s pontificate. Therefore no [concession] to a salvational pluralism can obliterate the “single Logos,” and the single Church that was and is in its will.

But the awareness that the ways of the Lord are diverse, even in the sense that they are multiple, and that even other religions can be - as unconsciously reflected in the single Logos, incarnate and eternal – mysterious ways of salvation… It is the doctrine of the Council, after all, reiterated in subsequent documents, including the “Dominus Jesus,” and constantly found in the writings of Joseph Ratzinger, theologian and Pope. In an interview in the recent book Luce del Mondo (with collaborator Peter Seewald), the Pope says that “inside” and “outside” - with respect to the Church as an instrument of salvation - is God’s business, not ours: “Many who seem to be inside are outside, and many who seem to be outside are inside.” This is Holy Scripture, from Saint Paul to us, but also Pius XII in the “Mystici Corporis,” where he affirms the difference between the visible body of the Church, “mystery” of Christ and place of salvation; and its soul - the boundaries of which are known only to God.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 06:51:48 AM by Jetavan » Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
bogdan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,615



« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2011, 08:44:04 AM »

God's ways are mysterious, as the author says, and I believe in abundance of love Gid even saves some pagans. But it's the Church's job to clarify the spiritual waters, not muddy them.

When Christians enable and celebrate paganism, what message does that send? What good does it do? He can say it does not obliterate the Logos, but then he goes on to extol God's extreme economia as if it's normative and good. If God saves pagans it's not because paganism is salvific, but because God sees them doing their best amidst the Church's failure to reach them.

If we spent as much effort baptizing people as we spend on fostering "understanding," the world would be a better place.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 08:49:25 AM by bogdan » Logged
Robb
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: RC
Jurisdiction: Italian Catholic
Posts: 1,537



« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2011, 03:13:13 AM »

I could never understand what some people have against interfaith gatherings like Assisi?  All it is is a bunch of religious leaders separately praying for world peace, or whatever.  It's just that they are all together doing it.  In any given city (At least in the western world) There are a plurality of different churches and religious houses of worship.  Do we condemn these cities and towns (Nearly all) For condoning interfaith amenity?

What then is wrong with a Church or religion encouraging joint get to gethers in order to separately pray for something?
Logged

Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.064 seconds with 38 queries.