Author Topic: How Wolves Change Rivers  (Read 179 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Arachne

  • Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
  • Section Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,046
  • This will have been fun.
  • Faith: Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
How Wolves Change Rivers
« on: January 29, 2016, 06:33:01 AM »
Another friendly reminder of how awesome nature is. :)

http://boredomtherapy.com/wolves-change-rivers/?as=538Steam&pas=113
'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox ~

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,023
  • Άγιος κέιθ ο Υμνογράφος και Μελωδός, να μας σώσει!
    • Blog
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Russo-Finn Orthodox Church Outside Spain
Re: How Wolves Change Rivers
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2016, 07:54:32 AM »
I remember reading about this a few years ago when the wolf populations were delisted from the Montana and Idaho endangered species lists.


Some good info at the Yellowstone site:  http://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/wolves.htm
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Arachne

  • Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
  • Section Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,046
  • This will have been fun.
  • Faith: Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Re: How Wolves Change Rivers
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2016, 08:08:44 AM »
The part about the actual river changing has been challenged, and it's true that 20 years are not long enough for such change (not least because the degree of meandering depends largely on the age of the river). Still, the way the food chain rearranging itself upon the introduction of an apex predator is fascinating.

I like watching the video with no sound, as that over-enthusiastic delivery becomes grating quickly, but the images never do. ;D
'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox ~

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,023
  • Άγιος κέιθ ο Υμνογράφος και Μελωδός, να μας σώσει!
    • Blog
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Russo-Finn Orthodox Church Outside Spain
Re: How Wolves Change Rivers
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2016, 08:15:09 AM »
I like watching the video with no sound, as that over-enthusiastic delivery becomes grating quickly, but the images never do. ;D

Americans love male narrators with English accents.  It's the only way we learn.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline rakovsky

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,866
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: How Wolves Change Rivers
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2016, 10:02:06 AM »
Beavers can change rivers. I don't get how wolves do. This sounds like a fanciful claim.

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,023
  • Άγιος κέιθ ο Υμνογράφος και Μελωδός, να μας σώσει!
    • Blog
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Russo-Finn Orthodox Church Outside Spain
Re: How Wolves Change Rivers
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2016, 10:26:20 AM »
Beavers can change rivers. I don't get how wolves do. This sounds like a fanciful claim.

Their reintroduction into Yellowstone effected the necessary changes to allow more beavers to thrive.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline rakovsky

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,866
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: How Wolves Change Rivers
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2016, 10:46:25 AM »
Beavers can change rivers. I don't get how wolves do. This sounds like a fanciful claim.

Their reintroduction into Yellowstone effected the necessary changes to allow more beavers to thrive.
Don't wolves eat beavers?
Or do wolves eat beavers' predators? And who are beavers' predators that wolves eat? Bears? Deer? Panthers?

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,023
  • Άγιος κέιθ ο Υμνογράφος και Μελωδός, να μας σώσει!
    • Blog
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Russo-Finn Orthodox Church Outside Spain
Re: How Wolves Change Rivers
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2016, 03:30:12 AM »
Quote
The critics' model is challenged by studies accumulating since the reintroduction of gray wolves (Canis lupus) to Yellowstone National Park. The gray wolf, after being extirpated in the 1920s and absent for 70 years, was reintroduced to the park in 1995 and 1996. Since then a three-tiered trophic cascade has been reestablished involving wolves, elk (Cervus elaphus), and woody browse species such as aspen (Populus tremuloides), cottonwoods (Populus spp.), and willows (Salix spp.). Mechanisms likely include actual wolf predation of elk, which reduces their numbers, and the threat of predation, which alters elk behavior and feeding habits, resulting in these plant species being released from intensive browsing pressure. Subsequently, their survival and recruitment rates have significantly increased in some places within Yellowstone's northern range. This effect is particularly noted among the range's riparian plant communities, with upland communities only recently beginning to show similar signs of recovery.[21]

Examples of this phenomenon include:
1.A 2-3 fold increase in deciduous woody vegetation cover, mostly of willow, in the Soda Butte Creek area between 1995 and 1999.[22]
2.Heights of the tallest willows in the Gallatin River valley increasing from 75 cm to 200 cm between 1998 and 2002.[23]
3.Heights of the tallest willows in the Blacktail Creek area increased from less than 50 cm to more than 250 cm between 1997 and 2003. Additionally, canopy cover over streams increased significantly, from only 5% to a range of 14-73%.[24]
4.In the northern range, tall deciduous woody vegetation cover increased by 170% between 1991 and 2006.[25]
5.In the Lamar and Soda Butte Valleys the number of young cottonwood trees that had been successfully recruited went from 0 to 156 between 2001 and 2010.[21]

Trophic cascades also impact the biodiversity of ecosystems, and when examined from that perspective wolves appear to be having multiple, positive cascading impacts on the biodiversity of Yellowstone National Park. These impacts include:

1.Scavengers, such as ravens (Corvus corax), bald eagles (Haliaeetus leucocephalus), and even grizzly bears (Ursus arctos horribilis), are likely subsidized by the carcasses of wolf kills.[26]
2.In the northern range, the relative abundance of six out of seven native songbirds which utilize willow was found to be greater in areas of willow recovery as opposed to those where willows remained suppressed.[25]
3.Bison (Bison bison) numbers in the northern range have been steadily increasing as elk numbers have declined, presumably due to a decrease in interspecific competition between the two species.[27]
4.Importantly, the number of beaver (Castor canadensis) colonies in the park has increased from one in 1996 to twelve in 2009. The recovery is likely due to the increase in willow availability, as they have been feeding almost exclusively on it. As keystone species, the resurgence of beaver is a critical event for the region. The presence of beavers has been shown to positively impact streambank erosion, sediment retention, water tables, nutrient cycling, and both the diversity and abundance of plant and animal life among riparian communities.[21]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_cascade
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline LenInSebastopol

  • Dimly Illumined
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,823
Re: How Wolves Change Rivers
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2016, 09:30:50 AM »
The cause & effect issues ascribed to phenomena should be looked at carefully, which isn't saying much to this group.
The underlying message in the eco moement is that 'man is the problem' and 'see how nature returns to balance without man'.
The grandeur of the eco-system is to great for us to take it all in and come to a balanced POV.
And Hecma is right: put an English accent and we all are dumbfounded, throw in some dream-like music! then cute cuddly-wuddlies and we are lead to ga ga land.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 09:32:05 AM by LenInSebastopol »
Mark 14:36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,023
  • Άγιος κέιθ ο Υμνογράφος και Μελωδός, να μας σώσει!
    • Blog
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Russo-Finn Orthodox Church Outside Spain
Re: How Wolves Change Rivers
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2016, 09:59:21 AM »
You're making it sound like a bunch of hippie Green Pacers released wolves to get things back to Eden.  This was a long time coming, based on scientific research.  Yes, it may be a stretch for the video script to say that wolves changes the topography of the river (a la butterfly wingbeat causes tsunami nonsense), but the local ecosystem has corrected itself in such a way to become a better environment for more species.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline rakovsky

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,866
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: How Wolves Change Rivers
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2016, 10:23:25 AM »
You're making it sound like a bunch of hippie Green Pacers released wolves to get things back to Eden.  This was a long time coming, based on scientific research.  Yes, it may be a stretch for the video script to say that wolves changes the topography of the river (a la butterfly wingbeat causes tsunami nonsense), but the local ecosystem has corrected itself in such a way to become a better environment for more species.
I got it now.