Medjugorje

[Milica]

On Wednesday, I saw a show on Medjugorje, which many of you know is a place for Marian apparitions. What I don't understand, is, why would the Theotokos appear in a place where 500 or so Serbs were massacred in WWII?   Could they be a result of demons or mass hysteria?
Plus they demolished the local Orthodox monastery there.

[Wyatt]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition, and even for approved apparitions we are not bound to believe in them. Catholics may have devotion to various Marian apparitions if they wish, but they are not bound to. The farthest I go with it is I do say the Fatima Prayer on each Our Father bead of the Rosary, but not so much because I am a fan of Fatima per se, but rather because it is a good prayer: "Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls into heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy. Amen."

[Jetavan]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least. The Vatican's investigation is on-going.

Interesting quote from the Medjugorje.org site:

Interview with Mirjana Dragicevic, By Fr. Tomislav Vlasic

Medjugorje, January 10, 1983

T: Mirjana, we have not seen each other for some time, and I would like you to tell me about the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and especially with the events that are connected to you.

M: I have seen the Blessed Virgin Mary for eighteen months now, and feel I know Her very well. I feel she loves me with Her Motherly love, and so I have been able to ask Her about anything I would like to know. I've asked her to explain some things about Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell that were not clear to me. For example, I asked Her how God can be so unmerciful as to throw people into Hell, to suffer forever. I thought: If a person commits a crime and goes to jail, he stays there for a while and then is forgiven - but to Hell, forever? She told me that souls who go to Hell have ceased thinking favorably of God - have cursed Him, more and more. So they've already become a part of Hell, and choose not to be delivered from it.

Then she told me that there are levels in Purgatory: Levels close to Hell and higher and higher toward Heaven. Most people, she said, think many souls are released from Purgatory into Heaven on All Saints' Day, but most souls are taken into Heaven on Christmas Day.
....
She also emphasized the failings of religious people, especially in small villages - for example, here in Medjugorje, where there is separation from Serbians (i.e., Serbian Orthodox) and Moslems. This separation is not good. The Madonna always stresses that there is but one God, and that people have enforced unnatural separation. One cannot truly believe, be a true Christian, if he does not respect other religions as well. You do not really believe in God if you make fun of other religions.

T: What, then, is the role of Jesus Christ, if the Moslem religion is a good religion?

M: We did not discuss that. She merely explained, and deplored, the lack of religious unity, "especially in the villages." She said that everybody's religion should be respected, and, of course, one's own.

[mabsoota]

sounds dodgy...

[Peter J]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

[biro]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

 Oh please.

[Peter J]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

 Oh please.

So how is the "not yet" distinction that I made different from the one Jetavan made?

[biro]

It sounded like you were throwing shade a little bit. If I got it wrong, I am very sorry. 

[Jetavan]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

Has the Vatican announced in March 2010 that it was forming a commission, under the authority of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, made up of cardinals, bishops, specialists and other experts, to investigate your living room phenomena?

[Peter J]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

Has the Vatican announced in March 2010 that it was forming a commission, under the authority of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, made up of cardinals, bishops, specialists and other experts, to investigate your living room phenomena?

Well, they possibly would set up such an investigation if thousands of pilgrims came to my living room each year believing that something miraculous happened there.

If you think investigation implies endorsement, you should watch more cop shows.

[Jetavan]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

Has the Vatican announced in March 2010 that it was forming a commission, under the authority of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, made up of cardinals, bishops, specialists and other experts, to investigate your living room phenomena?

Well, they possibly would set up such an investigation if thousands of pilgrims came to my living room each year believing that something miraculous happened there.

If you think investigation implies endorsement, you should watch more cop shows.

I don't think anyone mentioned the Vatican endorsing Medjugorje; the commission is still investigating, and a positive outcome is thus still possible.

[J Michael]

If you do an internet search for Medjugorje you will find *all* kinds of things.  One of the things you will *not* find is any kind of Vatican endorsement or approval of the apparitions there.  In fact, you'll probably find as much "against" it, including some of the local episcopate, as you will find things "for" it.

Peter is absolutely correct in saying that an investigation is not an endorsement--it's not even close to being so.

My own "close encounter" with things Medjugorje-ish was a friend in the U.K. who, upon a visit there, was deeply converted to Catholicism from Taoism.  Was it a "real" conversion?  Certainly appeared so to me.  Was it a result of the "apparitions" there or of something else?  I don't know.  What I *do* know is that once he was Taoist, and then he was a very reverent, pious, and sincere Catholic.  Go figure.

[J Michael]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

Has the Vatican announced in March 2010 that it was forming a commission, under the authority of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, made up of cardinals, bishops, specialists and other experts, to investigate your living room phenomena?

Well, they possibly would set up such an investigation if thousands of pilgrims came to my living room each year believing that something miraculous happened there.

If you think investigation implies endorsement, you should watch more cop shows.

I don't think anyone mentioned the Vatican endorsing Medjugorje; the commission is still investigating, and a positive outcome is thus still possible.

Of course it's *possible*.  The probability or certainty of it happening are quite something else.

Is it something you would like to see happen?

[Peter J]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

Has the Vatican announced in March 2010 that it was forming a commission, under the authority of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, made up of cardinals, bishops, specialists and other experts, to investigate your living room phenomena?

Well, they possibly would set up such an investigation if thousands of pilgrims came to my living room each year believing that something miraculous happened there.

If you think investigation implies endorsement, you should watch more cop shows.

I don't think anyone mentioned the Vatican endorsing Medjugorje

But my point is, you can't really fault them for investigating, right?

[Jetavan]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

Has the Vatican announced in March 2010 that it was forming a commission, under the authority of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, made up of cardinals, bishops, specialists and other experts, to investigate your living room phenomena?

Well, they possibly would set up such an investigation if thousands of pilgrims came to my living room each year believing that something miraculous happened there.

If you think investigation implies endorsement, you should watch more cop shows.

I don't think anyone mentioned the Vatican endorsing Medjugorje; the commission is still investigating, and a positive outcome is thus still possible.

Of course it's *possible*.  The probability or certainty of it happening are quite something else.

Is it something you would like to see happen?

I'm neither Catholic nor Orthodox, so I have no vested interest in the conclusion of the commission. I doubt the commission would affirm Medjugorje, but it would be interesting if it did.

[Jetavan]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

Has the Vatican announced in March 2010 that it was forming a commission, under the authority of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, made up of cardinals, bishops, specialists and other experts, to investigate your living room phenomena?

Well, they possibly would set up such an investigation if thousands of pilgrims came to my living room each year believing that something miraculous happened there.

If you think investigation implies endorsement, you should watch more cop shows.

I don't think anyone mentioned the Vatican endorsing Medjugorje

But my point is, you can't really fault them for investigating, right?

I encourage all such investigations. May they continue and prosper.

[Peter J]

In short, I think we're back to what Wyatt said: Medjugorje is not an approved apparition. Adding the word "yet" is more or less meaningless.

[username!]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

Make sure you sell statues and books.  Insist the apparition appears ever 7 days and write a book on what it says. 
And put a youtube up saying how humble you are and that you never asked for the apparition to appear.
Hoax completed.

[J Michael]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

Make sure you sell statues and books.  Insist the apparition appears ever 7 days and write a book on what it says. 
And put a youtube up saying how humble you are and that you never asked for the apparition to appear.
Hoax completed.

Aren't people grand?  A sucker born every minute, and there's *always* someone to take advantage of him (or her).  Big sigh.

[Peter J]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

Make sure you sell statues and books.  Insist the apparition appears ever 7 days and write a book on what it says. 
And put a youtube up saying how humble you are and that you never asked for the apparition to appear.
Hoax completed.

Okay, you can be my publicist.

[J Michael]

Medjugorje is not an approved apparition....

Well, not yet, at least.

Well yeah. The Vatican also hasn't "yet" approved the apparition that may or may not have happened in my living room a few minutes ago. (I say "may or may not", not because I don't know, but because I don't want to say.)

Make sure you sell statues and books.  Insist the apparition appears ever 7 days and write a book on what it says. 
And put a youtube up saying how humble you are and that you never asked for the apparition to appear.
Hoax completed.

Okay, you can be my publicist.

Be careful what you wish for  !

[rakovsky]

I think these two articles may be of interest. They are by the Catholic magazine Fidelity, which seems to have critical views.

The Ghosts of Surmanci: Queen of Peace, Ethnic Cleansing, Ruined Lives
http://www.culturewars.com/CultureWars/Archives/cw_feb98/surmanci.html

And a brief follow-up:
The Medjugorje Deception
http://www.culturewars.com/medj.htm

And then to top it all off, when I got back to my room in Reno I got a call from a man in England telling me that if I went back to Medjugorje the Franciscans were going to have me killed. So add death threats to the list of fruits. - E. Michael Jones, Ph.D.

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