Author Topic: need help with greek words  (Read 784 times)

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Offline Ansgar

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need help with greek words
« on: July 13, 2011, 03:29:05 PM »
Once I visited a website where the author argued that Jesus is not to be seen as God since the verses in the Bible in which people are worshipping Christ are using the word proskuneo which if I have understood it correctly means to honor a person. If Jesus was being worshipped as God the word latreuo would have been used.

I am really lost when it comes to greek words so I wondered if there are anyone in here who could give me an explanation on this. It is not that I doubt the divinity of Christ but I would just like to know how to handle this.

Thank you. :)
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

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Offline Melodist

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Re: need help with greek words
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2011, 03:49:18 PM »
Once I visited a website where the author argued that Jesus is not to be seen as God since the verses in the Bible in which people are worshipping Christ are using the word proskuneo which if I have understood it correctly means to honor a person. If Jesus was being worshipped as God the word latreuo would have been used.

I am really lost when it comes to greek words so I wondered if there are anyone in here who could give me an explanation on this. It is not that I doubt the divinity of Christ but I would just like to know how to handle this.

Thank you. :)

The first chapter of John makes it clear that Christ is the Word made flesh Who was in the beginning with God and Was God, through Whom all that was made that was made and nothing was made without Him. In the Beginning God created the heavens and the earth... God said... and there was...

The lack of "latreia" being recorded as being given to Christ isn't proof against everything else written in the NT.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: need help with greek words
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2011, 04:16:55 PM »
Once I visited a website where the author argued that Jesus is not to be seen as God since the verses in the Bible in which people are worshipping Christ are using the word proskuneo which if I have understood it correctly means to honor a person. If Jesus was being worshipped as God the word latreuo would have been used.

I am really lost when it comes to greek words so I wondered if there are anyone in here who could give me an explanation on this. It is not that I doubt the divinity of Christ but I would just like to know how to handle this.

Thank you. :)

This kind of thing is the unfortunate end result of a misunderstanding and misapplication of sola scriptura. At least, IMHO.
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

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Offline Melodist

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Re: need help with greek words
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 05:20:01 PM »
Once I visited a website where the author argued that Jesus is not to be seen as God since the verses in the Bible in which people are worshipping Christ are using the word proskuneo which if I have understood it correctly means to honor a person. If Jesus was being worshipped as God the word latreuo would have been used.

I am really lost when it comes to greek words so I wondered if there are anyone in here who could give me an explanation on this. It is not that I doubt the divinity of Christ but

What does the web site say about venerating icons, saints, and relics?

Quote
I would just like to know how to handle this.

Thank you. :)

My opinion would be that the best way to handle the situation would be to stay away from that web site.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God

Offline pensateomnia

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Re: need help with greek words
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 05:29:15 PM »
Once I visited a website where the author argued that Jesus is not to be seen as God since the verses in the Bible in which people are worshipping Christ are using the word proskuneo which if I have understood it correctly means to honor a person. If Jesus was being worshipped as God the word latreuo would have been used.

I am really lost when it comes to greek words so I wondered if there are anyone in here who could give me an explanation on this. It is not that I doubt the divinity of Christ but I would just like to know how to handle this.

Thank you. :)

In the Koine Greek of the Septuagint and New Testament, proskuneo oftens means worship befitting a god. The theological distinction between proskuneo and latreuo only comes much later. And, even today, there are a number of places in the divine services that use proskuneo in its older, scriptural sense, i.e. to worship God. So, in short, the author you read is flat-out wrong.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 05:31:15 PM by pensateomnia »
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline Ansgar

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Re: need help with greek words
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2011, 05:33:40 PM »
Once I visited a website where the author argued that Jesus is not to be seen as God since the verses in the Bible in which people are worshipping Christ are using the word proskuneo which if I have understood it correctly means to honor a person. If Jesus was being worshipped as God the word latreuo would have been used.

I am really lost when it comes to greek words so I wondered if there are anyone in here who could give me an explanation on this. It is not that I doubt the divinity of Christ but

What does the web site say about venerating icons, saints, and relics?

Quote
I would just like to know how to handle this.

Thank you. :)

My opinion would be that the best way to handle the situation would be to stay away from that web site.
The website is(or so they claim) a source of critical translation of the holy scriptures. As far as I know they are only dealing with the Bible.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Ansgar

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Re: need help with greek words
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 05:34:50 PM »
Once I visited a website where the author argued that Jesus is not to be seen as God since the verses in the Bible in which people are worshipping Christ are using the word proskuneo which if I have understood it correctly means to honor a person. If Jesus was being worshipped as God the word latreuo would have been used.

I am really lost when it comes to greek words so I wondered if there are anyone in here who could give me an explanation on this. It is not that I doubt the divinity of Christ but I would just like to know how to handle this.

Thank you. :)

In the Koine Greek of the Septuagint and New Testament, proskuneo oftens means worship befitting a god. The theological distinction between proskuneo and latreuo only comes much later. And, even today, there are a number of places in the divine services that use proskuneo in its older, scriptural sense, i.e. to worship God. So, in short, the author you read is flat-out wrong.
Thank you.  :)
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: need help with greek words
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 05:38:20 PM »
Once I visited a website where the author argued that Jesus is not to be seen as God since the verses in the Bible in which people are worshipping Christ are using the word proskuneo which if I have understood it correctly means to honor a person. If Jesus was being worshipped as God the word latreuo would have been used.

I am really lost when it comes to greek words so I wondered if there are anyone in here who could give me an explanation on this. It is not that I doubt the divinity of Christ but I would just like to know how to handle this.

Thank you. :)

The owner of this claim is most likely confused on this issue.

When I check Matthew 4:10 in English, I see that the Greek word "latreuo" corresponds to the word "serve" while "proskuneo" is translated as "worship":

Then Jesus said to him, “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’”
τότε λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ ᾿Ιησοῦς· ὕπαγε ὀπίσω μου, σατανᾶ· γέγραπται γάρ, Κύριον τὸν Θεόν σου προσκυνήσεις καὶ αὐτῷ μόνῳ λατρεύσεις.

Besides, in many verses of the Bible the word "proskuneo" is used when the concept of worshipping is in mind. A few examples:

So I threw myself down at his feet to worship him, but he said, “Do not do this! I am only a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony about Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony about Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” (Revelation 19:10)
Καὶ ἔπεσα ἔμπροσθεν τῶν ποδῶν αὐτοῦ προσκυνῆσαι αὐτῷ. καὶ λέγει μοι· ὅρα μή· σύνδουλός σού εἰμι καὶ τῶν ἀδελφῶν σου τῶν ἐχόντων τὴν μαρτυρίαν ᾿Ιησοῦ· τῷ Θεῷ προσκύνησον· ἡ γὰρ μαρτυρία τοῦ ᾿Ιησοῦ ἐστι τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς προφητείας.

So he said to his servants, “You two stay here with the donkey while the boy and I go up there. We will worship and then return to you.” (Genesis 22:5)
καὶ εἶπεν Αβρααμ τοῖς παισὶν αὐτοῦ Καθίσατε αὐτοῦ μετὰ τῆς ὄνου, ἐγὼ δὲ καὶ τὸ παιδάριον διελευσόμεθα ἕως ὧδε καὶ προσκυνήσαντες ἀναστρέψωμεν πρὸς ὑμᾶς.

But to Moses the Lord said, “Come up to the Lord, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and worship from a distance. (Exodus 24:1)
ΚΑΙ Μωυσῇ εἶπεν· ἀνάβηθι πρὸς τὸν Κύριον σὺ καὶ ᾿Ααρὼν καὶ Ναδὰβ καὶ ᾿Αβιοὺδ καὶ ἑβδημήκοντα τῶν πρεσβυτέρων ᾿Ισραήλ, καὶ προσκυνήσουσι μακρόθεν τῷ Κυρίῳ·

Make sure you do not turn away to serve and worship other gods! (Deuteronomy 11:16)
καὶ φαγὼν καὶ ἐμπλησθεὶς πρόσεχε σεαυτῷ, μὴ πλατυνθῇ ἡ καρδία σου καὶ παραβῆτε καὶ λατρεύσητε θεοῖς ἑτέροις καὶ προσκυνήσητε αὐτοῖς.

that we, being rescued from the hand of our enemies, may serve him without fear (Luke 1:74)
ἀφόβως, ἐκ χειρὸς τῶν ἐχθρῶν ἡμῶν ῥυσθέντας, λατρεύειν αὐτῷ           
Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem

Offline biro

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Re: need help with greek words
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 06:49:53 PM »
Did the claim in question come from a Jehovah's Witnesses website? It sounds a lot like them.
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Offline Ansgar

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Re: need help with greek words
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 07:13:22 PM »
Did the claim in question come from a Jehovah's Witnesses website? It sounds a lot like them.
It could very much sound like something which could come from a JW but in this case I think that it is just good old scepticism. I have have only heard of the site one other time in an article about old testament prophesies about Christ (one of the psalms but I can't remember which one it was). This time they had to admit that the text was indeed talking about Christ ;)
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline biro

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Re: need help with greek words
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 07:18:20 PM »
Okay, then.  :)
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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And if I seem a little strange, well, that's because I am