Author Topic: I am very confused  (Read 1079 times)

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Offline Ansgar

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I am very confused
« on: July 10, 2011, 04:13:07 PM »
I found this prophesy of Saint Nilus the Myrrh-gusher of Mount Athos:

“As we move from 1900 towards the middle of the 8th Century (5.508 years since Adam + 2000 A.C.= 7.508 years) the people of those days will become unrecognizable. When the advent of Antichrist draws near, people’s reasoning will be obscured because of carnal passions while profanity and indecency will prevail. People will become unrecognizable; people’s faces will be disfigured; men will not be distinguishable from women because of their shameless garments and the hair on their heads. Then they will become wild and will resemble the beasts because they will be seduced by Antichrist.
Respect for the parents and elders will be no more; love will perish; the Christians’ shepherds, Archpriests and priests, will be conceited and will no longer recognize the right path from the left.
During those days the customs and the traditions of the Christians and the Church will change. Prudence will be lost and profanity will prevail. Lies and the love of money will reach epidemic proportions. Woe to those who stockpile monies.
Fornication, adultery, homosexuality, thefts and murders will be an everyday occurrence during those days. As a result of the heavy sins and the widespread debauchery, people will be deprived of the grace of the Holy Spirit which they have received during their Baptism, as well as the compunction of their conscience.
The Lord’s Churches will be deprived of devout and pious shepherds. Woe to the Christians who will live those days because they will be faithless. They will have no opportunity to see the light of knowledge from anyone. Then they will leave the world and run to hide inside the holy catacombs in order to find solace for their souls’ tribulations but instead obstacles and hardship will be in their path. All these will take place because Antichrist will rule over everything and will be the leader of all humanity. He will perform imaginary signs and astonishing deeds; He will then dispense crafty wisdom to the wretched man so that he invents ways to speak to one another from one end of the earth to the other, fly in the air like birds and cross the bottom of the sea like fish.
The poor people will do all these and will live in comfort, not knowing that all are delusions by the Antichrist. The Evil one will enable science to achieve such huge imaginary advances so that people will be misled and no longer believe in the existence of the Triune God.
Then the Almighty God, seeing that mankind is heading for its demise, will shorten the days for the sake of those few who will be saved, since the Devil will try if possible to deceive even the chosen ones.
Then suddenly the two-edged sword will appear to destroy the deceiver and his followers…”

This sounds very much like our time. Now my attention fell on this: "the Christians’ shepherds, Archpriests and priests, will be conceited and will no longer recognize the right path from the left"

Could this be a foretelling of the emergence of modernism? I am only asking because I am very confused about how to understand this. What do you think?
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Offline John Ward

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2011, 04:19:06 PM »
Don't pay any attention to this. It's considered an urban legend, of sorts and I've seen several sites where they've talked about it and pointed out inconstancies among various versions of it.

Offline Kasatkin fan

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2011, 04:21:38 PM »
The mistake in the first line would suggest you didn't get it from a very reliable source (middle of the 8th century is 750, not 7,500). This should be enough to lead you to question its varacity.

Offline joasia

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2011, 08:34:37 PM »
Archbishop Averky commented on this prophesy.

http://www.holy-transfiguration.org/library_en/mod_endtimes.html

Also, there's the vision of St. John of Kronstadt.  Who wants to refute this?  And this is alot more darker.  It's the actual vision of the time of the anti-christ.

http://www.orthodox.net/articles/vision-of-st-john-of-kronstadt.html
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Offline Xenia1918

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2011, 08:42:54 PM »
Archbishop Averky commented on this prophesy.

http://www.holy-transfiguration.org/library_en/mod_endtimes.html

Also, there's the vision of St. John of Kronstadt.  Who wants to refute this?  And this is alot more darker.  It's the actual vision of the time of the anti-christ.

http://www.orthodox.net/articles/vision-of-st-john-of-kronstadt.html

St John of Kronstadt, then, foresaw the martyrdom of Tsar Nicholas II. Thank you for posting this!
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Offline Kasatkin fan

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2011, 09:44:38 PM »

Also, there's the vision of St. John of Kronstadt.  Who wants to refute this?  And this is alot more darker.  It's the actual vision of the time of the anti-christ.

http://www.orthodox.net/articles/vision-of-st-john-of-kronstadt.html

Where is this sourced from?

Offline joasia

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2011, 09:53:25 PM »

Also, there's the vision of St. John of Kronstadt.  Who wants to refute this?  And this is alot more darker.  It's the actual vision of the time of the anti-christ.

http://www.orthodox.net/articles/vision-of-st-john-of-kronstadt.html

Where is this sourced from?

It's from the Russian Orthodox Church.  St. John was Russian Orthodox from Holy Rus.  I guarantee you, it's authentic.
Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline John Ward

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2011, 10:01:48 PM »

Also, there's the vision of St. John of Kronstadt.  Who wants to refute this?  And this is alot more darker.  It's the actual vision of the time of the anti-christ.

http://www.orthodox.net/articles/vision-of-st-john-of-kronstadt.html

Where is this sourced from?

It's from the Russian Orthodox Church.  St. John was Russian Orthodox from Holy Rus.  I guarantee you, it's authentic.

I'm not arguing in favor or against, but that's a very weak defense. I could pick up something that was written a couple years ago, but was given to me by a well-intentioned priest, believing it was real and say "I got it from the Church."

Though, I have read about this and I do know it, too, is controversial. I have seen several people state that certain things don't fit, especially with St. John's style. I, however, have no comment for or against as I am not very familiar with St. John's writings and life. Not as much as I should be.

But, to defend something by saying he was Russian and that you guarantee it doesn't prove it's true. We live in an age where things are frequently forged and I am weary of any type of "prophecies" personally. I think there was a reason why it took a long time to come up with the canon of the Bible and I wonder if the Holy Fathers would be as quick to latch on to these prophecies as we are these days.

Offline Kasatkin fan

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2011, 10:05:54 PM »

Also, there's the vision of St. John of Kronstadt.  Who wants to refute this?  And this is alot more darker.  It's the actual vision of the time of the anti-christ.

http://www.orthodox.net/articles/vision-of-st-john-of-kronstadt.html

Where is this sourced from?

It's from the Russian Orthodox Church.  St. John was Russian Orthodox from Holy Rus.  I guarantee you, it's authentic.
Do you have anything more specific? I'm not questioning St. John, or the Russian Orthodox Church, I'm just asking where the document comes from. How do we come about it? Was it in a letter he sent to someone, was it found among his documents when he died, was it something he told to someone else? If the last who?

You'll have to excuse my scepticism but with all the pseudopigraphical works that go around, especially on the internet, I like to be sure, not to mention that making sure documents are what they say they are is something that goes far back in the tradition of the Church. ;)

Offline Kasatkin fan

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2011, 10:08:50 PM »

Also, there's the vision of St. John of Kronstadt.  Who wants to refute this?  And this is alot more darker.  It's the actual vision of the time of the anti-christ.

http://www.orthodox.net/articles/vision-of-st-john-of-kronstadt.html

Where is this sourced from?

It's from the Russian Orthodox Church.  St. John was Russian Orthodox from Holy Rus.  I guarantee you, it's authentic.

I'm not arguing in favor or against, but that's a very weak defense. I could pick up something that was written a couple years ago, but was given to me by a well-intentioned priest, believing it was real and say "I got it from the Church."

Though, I have read about this and I do know it, too, is controversial. I have seen several people state that certain things don't fit, especially with St. John's style. I, however, have no comment for or against as I am not very familiar with St. John's writings and life. Not as much as I should be.

But, to defend something by saying he was Russian and that you guarantee it doesn't prove it's true. We live in an age where things are frequently forged and I am weary of any type of "prophecies" personally. I think there was a reason why it took a long time to come up with the canon of the Bible and I wonder if the Holy Fathers would be as quick to latch on to these prophecies as we are these days.

I don't know much about St. John other than the basics, but the style in which that is written is odd for any sort of prophetic writting. At times it will be vague, and others very detailed. Sometimes it will be allegorical, and sometimes literal. This doesn't prove anything either way, but it raises red flags for me.

Offline Seraphim98

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2011, 11:42:04 PM »
If I recall correctly there is some question about this supposed prophecy of St. Nilus. Some years ago I read an article that said it seems to have first seen print in the early 50's.  In any event no evidence of it's existence has been found prior to that time. The piece itself does not appear among other sayings known to belong to St. Nilus.

I suppose there may be some more obscure source not known to the author of that article…I wish I could remember what it was…but absent something more substantive I would be more careful with this one. There are other better documented prophecies from saints closer to our time that entirely specific enough to inspire repentance in the faithful.


Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2011, 11:29:58 AM »
I tend not to believe a prophesy if I do not know the source. There are many prophecies, but we do not need to put faith in them. We have the words of the Lord. If the prophecies are true, they will be fulfilled, if not, they won't. It's not really part of our faith to make a bigger deal over prophecies from shadowy sources or even from well-known holy men than over what God has revealed openly to all the Church and the world.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2011, 11:43:04 AM »
Well its been five years, so I guess the "St. Nilus Prophecy" was due to make the rounds again.
People, its a forgery.

Ugh! Not this again!
I'm afraid this "prophesy" is a forgery. And yes, I'm aware that it appeared in the previous edition of the "Athonite Gerontikon", but monks make mistakes too! Several things give it away as a forgery:
1) No one heard of this prophesy prior to the 1990's.
2) The first versions of the "prophesy" which appeared began with the words: "After the year 1900, towards the middle of the 19th century..."- which of course is AD 1850! The forger couldn't even get that right!
3) In the supposed "original" Greek versions, the "prophesy" uses the word "homophilia" (the adjective of "homosexual"), but the words "homophilo" and "homophilia" (the noun and adjective of "homosexual") were not coined in Greece until after AD 1896- two hundred years after St. Nilos the Myhrrgusher died.
4) The first versions ascribe the "prophesy" to the St. Nilos who died in AD 430 (St. Nilos of Sinai). And even then, the forger didn't get his dates right, calling him a "4th century Saint" when he was in fact a "5th century Saint"- which of course is the same mistake he or she made by ascribing the words "towards the middle of the 19th century" to the Saint.
5) Some versions add the words "with few exceptions" to the prophesy after the part which says that the Church will be deprived of "God-fearing and pious pastors".

It is time to relegate this "prophesy" to the realm of urban legends and "spooky-doxy" as Fr Joseph Huneycutt does in his blog.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 11:43:24 AM by ozgeorge »
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