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Author Topic: More of the Same Old Jew Bashing  (Read 16651 times) Average Rating: 0
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #270 on: July 14, 2011, 12:30:13 AM »

lolOl is that saintiaint back already???
Yup, and this newest sock puppet just got banned, too (though his avatar doesn't show it).
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« Reply #271 on: July 14, 2011, 12:34:15 AM »

This is not even funny anymore!!!  Shocked


Roll Eyes Yes, because being angry with someone starting multiple accounts, having the audacity to pretend that he or she is a different person each time, and gradually posting more explicit stuff on the board is me wanting to take away your constitutional rights.  My bad, I get them mixed up all the time.
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« Reply #272 on: July 14, 2011, 02:22:13 AM »

Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  Cheesy

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

It only became a silly thing when you picked Marc up on it. As far as I can see he isn't claiming to come from the same background as you, he's only trying to say as a Jew he has a perspective on this and you keep protesting he's not Jewish enough to really understand and look - here's proof - he got a vowel wrong. If only Orthodox Jews know enough about Judaism to comment on 'Jew bashing' then you ought to have the thread to yourself because SaintIaint knows a whole lot less about it than Marc.

Margaret
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« Reply #273 on: July 14, 2011, 02:25:22 AM »

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

Indeed, it's a silly thing for you to keep bringing up, just like your endless repetition of your childhood anecdotes about Jews talking bad behind Christians' backs etc. You may well have the lowest ratio of new insights to number of posts of anyone on this forum.

A fluent Yiddish speaker in America today? Well, you are a rarity.

Not really. All Chasidic Jewish communities, and some of the stricter "regular" Orthodox communities, regularly use Yiddish as their daily language of communication amongst themselves, with English reserved for outsiders (akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

All Chasidic Jewish kiddies, from a very young age, are bilingual in both Yiddish and the language of their native country.

Same in the UK. You hear Yiddish spoken in Stamford Hill although the dialect can vary from block to block sometimes and there's a difference between older people who have a definite 'Yiddish' accent and the young ones, the under 30s, who speak it like Londoners. A linguist's paradise.

Margart
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« Reply #274 on: July 14, 2011, 08:28:08 AM »

Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  Cheesy

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

It only became a silly thing when you picked Marc up on it. As far as I can see he isn't claiming to come from the same background as you, he's only trying to say as a Jew he has a perspective on this and you keep protesting he's not Jewish enough to really understand and look - here's proof - he got a vowel wrong. If only Orthodox Jews know enough about Judaism to comment on 'Jew bashing' then you ought to have the thread to yourself because SaintIaint knows a whole lot less about it than Marc.

Margaret

It didn't become a silly thing when I commented on it to make the correction in pronunciation...it became a silly thing when others chose to harp on it and run with it, ad infinitum.
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« Reply #275 on: July 14, 2011, 08:59:28 AM »

This is not even funny anymore!!!  Shocked


Roll Eyes Yes, because being angry with someone starting multiple accounts, having the audacity to pretend that he or she is a different person each time, and gradually posting more explicit stuff on the board is me wanting to take away your constitutional rights.  My bad, I get them mixed up all the time.

They may be different people who are associated in some way. For example one mentioned he posts on Br. Nathanial's Board regularly. They may have organized something. When one goes down another steps up and repeats the same sort of dumb blather.

Fishy

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« Reply #276 on: July 14, 2011, 09:07:33 AM »

Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  Cheesy

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

It only became a silly thing when you picked Marc up on it. As far as I can see he isn't claiming to come from the same background as you, he's only trying to say as a Jew he has a perspective on this and you keep protesting he's not Jewish enough to really understand and look - here's proof - he got a vowel wrong. If only Orthodox Jews know enough about Judaism to comment on 'Jew bashing' then you ought to have the thread to yourself because SaintIaint knows a whole lot less about it than Marc.

Margaret

It didn't become a silly thing when I commented on it to make the correction in pronunciation...it became a silly thing when others chose to harp on it and run with it, ad infinitum.

There is saying among Lawyers; "If you dont have enough evidence on your side, attack the credibility of the witness."

That's what you were hunting around for and got back some of the same.


This is becoming tiresome.
 
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« Reply #277 on: July 14, 2011, 11:30:00 AM »

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

Indeed, it's a silly thing for you to keep bringing up, just like your endless repetition of your childhood anecdotes about Jews talking bad behind Christians' backs etc. You may well have the lowest ratio of new insights to number of posts of anyone on this forum.

A fluent Yiddish speaker in America today? Well, you are a rarity.

Not really. All Chasidic Jewish communities, and some of the stricter "regular" Orthodox communities, regularly use Yiddish as their daily language of communication amongst themselves, with English reserved for outsiders (akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

All Chasidic Jewish kiddies, from a very young age, are bilingual in both Yiddish and the language of their native country.

Same in the UK. You hear Yiddish spoken in Stamford Hill although the dialect can vary from block to block sometimes and there's a difference between older people who have a definite 'Yiddish' accent and the young ones, the under 30s, who speak it like Londoners. A linguist's paradise.

Margart

You mean they vary in their pronunciation of Yiddish or in their pronunciation of English?

By the way, Old Order Amish don't speak High German as an everyday language. They use it in their services and prayers, but their everyday language is quite different and varies from community to community. Most Amish in America came from either Switzerland or the Palatinate, so their spoken dialects are generally derived from one or both of these dialect regions, though now there is also considerable English influence.

Example: in Lancaster County Amish communities, who I believe are largely descended from Palatine settlers (Pfalz), the word for "run" is "laafen", but "house" is "haus", while in High German, "run" is "laufen". This is because in High German, Middle German ou, loufen, merged with û, hûs, as au, so laufen, haus, but in the Palatine region, ou and û developed differently, as aa and au respectively.
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« Reply #278 on: July 14, 2011, 11:31:54 AM »


They may be different people who are associated in some way. For example one mentioned he posts on Br. Nathanial's Board regularly. They may have organized something. When one goes down another steps up and repeats the same sort of dumb blather.

Fishy


True, but still pretty annoying at the same time.
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« Reply #279 on: July 14, 2011, 11:36:56 AM »

And one more thing ( then we can start drinking).

It's interesting how you (Xenia) think because Rocor is considered strict or Traditional that it is further away from Judaism.

Judaism and Orthodox Christianity are not at two opposite poles. Your wrong assumption may be that the more Orthodox Christian you are, the less you share commonalities with Judaism.

St. John Chrysostom - "demons dwell in the synagogue". He compared the synagogue to a pagan temple, representing it as the source of all vices and heresies.

He described it as a place worse than a brothel and a drinking shop; it was a den of scoundrels, the repair of wild beasts, a temple of demons, the refuge of brigands and debauchees, and the cavern of devils, a criminal assembly of the assassins of Christ.

But I guess St. John Chrysostom is an antisemite in your eyes Marc?

St. John's stand against Judaizers is correct and I share his view. I have even argued for it when we had a nice woman from a Messianic Jewish Group on this forum... I practically scolded her.

His Antisemitic language is widely considered extreme and a flaw.. Did you  think Saints are perfect people? Others here know far more about him and this issue. It would make a good thread. I beleive I read he was repentant in later life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chrysostom

Homilies on Jews and Judaizing Christians
Main article: Adversus Judaeos

During his first two years as a presbyter in Antioch (386-387), John denounced Jews and Judaizing Christians in a series of eight homilies delivered to Christians in his congregation who were taking part in Jewish festivals and other Jewish observances.[36] It is disputed whether the main target were specifically Judaizers or Jews in general. His homilies were expressed in the conventional manner, utilizing the uncompromising rhetorical form known as the psogos (Greek: blame).

One of the purposes of these homilies was to prevent Christians from participating in Jewish customs, and thus prevent the perceived erosion of Chrysostom's flock. In his homilies, John criticized those "Judaizing Christians", who were participating in Jewish festivals and taking part in other Jewish observances, such as the shabbat, submitted to circumcision and made pilgrimage to Jewish holy places.[37] John claimed that on the shabbats and Jewish festivals synagogues were full of Christians, especially women, who loved the solemnity of the Jewish liturgy, enjoyed listening to the shofar on Rosh Hashanah, and applauded famous preachers in accordance with the contemporary custom.[38] A more recent theory is that he instead tried to persuade Jewish Christians, who for centuries had kept connections with Jews and Judaism, to choose between Judaism and Christianity.[39]

In Greek the homilies are called Kata Ioudaiōn (Κατὰ Ιουδαίων), which is translated as Adversus Judaeos in Latin and Against the Jews in English.[40] The original Benedictine editor of the homilies, Bernard de Montfaucon, gives the following footnote to the title: "A discourse against the Jews; but it was delivered against those who were Judaizing and keeping the fasts with them [the Jews]."[41]
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 11:45:25 AM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #280 on: July 14, 2011, 11:52:36 AM »

](akin to the way the Old Order Amish speak High German amongst themselves but use English to communicate with outsiders).

Do you have any idea what you talking about accurately and precisely?



Uh, as a person who grew up living in an Orthodox Jewish community as an Orthodox Jew, and who presently lives near an Old Order Amish community and is friendly with many of them (even though I'm seen as one of "the English" by them), yes, I think I certainly do!

What IS your problem?

Your mistranslation of the word Sephardic and your association of the word with a country that didn't exist before 1948.

How did I "mistranslate" the word Sephardic? Because I used the current definition of it?

The Sephardic transliteration and pronunciation are the standard in the modern state of Israel, but it is also the standard pronunciation of Sephardic Jews, that is, Jews from Spain, Turkey, Egypt, the Middle East, etc.

There is a current definition of Sephardic?   Huh  The term Sephardic existed before the nation of Israel was created.

You said, "Sephardi: the Israeli pronunciation of Hebrew."

And to Poppy ... I ain't no SaintIaint.   Wink
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« Reply #281 on: July 14, 2011, 12:08:46 PM »

Xenia,

I see that others have already alluded to the problems with your understanding of what you are talking about.

This ain't some place where no one know what you are going on about and you can just throw your "colorful" bio out as proof for statements you make.

In the future, rest assured that pretty much whatever subject you bring up here, a mere layperson can google your statements or that someone here is probably expert in what you are mentioning.

I don't care where you lived or who you spoke with. Pretty much everything you have said regarding Germanic languages here is neither precise nor accurate. Even wikipedia does a better job.

The general and passing critiques above are enough to show you don't understand what you are saying.

So in the future, stick to your experience and try not to write off others just because you think you have a monopoly on how the world works based on your tiny interaction with it. That includes whatever animus you hold towards Jews.

Matzo Tov! //:=|

 



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« Reply #282 on: July 14, 2011, 12:51:13 PM »

Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  Cheesy

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

It only became a silly thing when you picked Marc up on it. As far as I can see he isn't claiming to come from the same background as you, he's only trying to say as a Jew he has a perspective on this and you keep protesting he's not Jewish enough to really understand and look - here's proof - he got a vowel wrong. If only Orthodox Jews know enough about Judaism to comment on 'Jew bashing' then you ought to have the thread to yourself because SaintIaint knows a whole lot less about it than Marc.

Margaret

It didn't become a silly thing when I commented on it to make the correction in pronunciation...it became a silly thing when others chose to harp on it and run with it, ad infinitum.

There is saying among Lawyers; "If you dont have enough evidence on your side, attack the credibility of the witness."

That's what you were hunting around for and got back some of the same.


This is becoming tiresome.
  

No, actually, what has been happening here is that I dared to come up against one of the coddled chosen, and was attacked for it...a coddled chosen who is allowed to personally insult other members, in prideful and snotty ways,even tell them not to join the Orthodox Church, and nothing happens to him, while others who have done far less are silenced.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 12:53:16 PM by Xenia1918 » Logged

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« Reply #283 on: July 14, 2011, 01:13:14 PM »

Quote
I'd like to correct a few things...first, its glatt kosher, not "glut".

The Rav i know told me that there isn't a "correct" English transliteration of Hebrew characters and that many different Jews spell it all different ways in English. Hes a Jewish Rabbi and he spells things all over the place.

Thank you, Poppy! Glatt is a Yiddish word and there's no standard way of putting Yiddish into English and "all over the place" is about the best description I can think of  Cheesy

Margaret


In Yiddish, "glatt" is spelled gimel, lamed, tav. The vowel to make the word from GLT into "glatt" is the AH vowel, which is pronounced "Gl-AH-t. The only way it could be Glut would be if an incorrect vowel (the UH vowel) were put there instead.

Really a silly thing to argue over, but as someone who speaks fluent Yiddish as a result of my upbringing, I'd think I would know.

It only became a silly thing when you picked Marc up on it. As far as I can see he isn't claiming to come from the same background as you, he's only trying to say as a Jew he has a perspective on this and you keep protesting he's not Jewish enough to really understand and look - here's proof - he got a vowel wrong. If only Orthodox Jews know enough about Judaism to comment on 'Jew bashing' then you ought to have the thread to yourself because SaintIaint knows a whole lot less about it than Marc.

Margaret

It didn't become a silly thing when I commented on it to make the correction in pronunciation...it became a silly thing when others chose to harp on it and run with it, ad infinitum.

There is saying among Lawyers; "If you dont have enough evidence on your side, attack the credibility of the witness."

That's what you were hunting around for and got back some of the same.


This is becoming tiresome.
  

No, actually, what has been happening here is that I dared to come up against one of the coddled chosen, and was attacked for it...a coddled chosen who is allowed to personally insult other members, in prideful and snotty ways,even tell them not to join the Orthodox Church, and nothing happens to him, while others who have done far less are silenced.


Xenia,

If you wish to complain about how this thread has been moderated, which is what you're doing when you complain that some have no action taken against them while others are "silenced", then please use the "Report to Moderator" function or PM the moderator team to air your complaints. Public criticism of moderatorial decisions is not permitted on this forum and will be sanctioned harshly.
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« Reply #284 on: July 14, 2011, 01:13:55 PM »

And one more thing ( then we can start drinking).

It's interesting how you (Xenia) think because Rocor is considered strict or Traditional that it is further away from Judaism.

Judaism and Orthodox Christianity are not at two opposite poles. Your wrong assumption may be that the more Orthodox Christian you are, the less you share commonalities with Judaism.

St. John Chrysostom - "demons dwell in the synagogue". He compared the synagogue to a pagan temple, representing it as the source of all vices and heresies.

He described it as a place worse than a brothel and a drinking shop; it was a den of scoundrels, the repair of wild beasts, a temple of demons, the refuge of brigands and debauchees, and the cavern of devils, a criminal assembly of the assassins of Christ.

But I guess St. John Chrysostom is an antisemite in your eyes Marc?

St. John's stand against Judaizers is correct and I share his view. I have even argued for it when we had a nice woman from a Messianic Jewish Group on this forum... I practically scolded her.

His Antisemitic language is widely considered extreme and a flaw.. Did you  think Saints are perfect people? Others here know far more about him and this issue. It would make a good thread. I beleive I read he was repentant in later life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chrysostom

Homilies on Jews and Judaizing Christians
Main article: Adversus Judaeos

During his first two years as a presbyter in Antioch (386-387), John denounced Jews and Judaizing Christians in a series of eight homilies delivered to Christians in his congregation who were taking part in Jewish festivals and other Jewish observances.[36] It is disputed whether the main target were specifically Judaizers or Jews in general. His homilies were expressed in the conventional manner, utilizing the uncompromising rhetorical form known as the psogos (Greek: blame).

One of the purposes of these homilies was to prevent Christians from participating in Jewish customs, and thus prevent the perceived erosion of Chrysostom's flock. In his homilies, John criticized those "Judaizing Christians", who were participating in Jewish festivals and taking part in other Jewish observances, such as the shabbat, submitted to circumcision and made pilgrimage to Jewish holy places.[37] John claimed that on the shabbats and Jewish festivals synagogues were full of Christians, especially women, who loved the solemnity of the Jewish liturgy, enjoyed listening to the shofar on Rosh Hashanah, and applauded famous preachers in accordance with the contemporary custom.[38] A more recent theory is that he instead tried to persuade Jewish Christians, who for centuries had kept connections with Jews and Judaism, to choose between Judaism and Christianity.[39]

In Greek the homilies are called Kata Ioudaiōn (Κατὰ Ιουδαίων), which is translated as Adversus Judaeos in Latin and Against the Jews in English.[40] The original Benedictine editor of the homilies, Bernard de Montfaucon, gives the following footnote to the title: "A discourse against the Jews; but it was delivered against those who were Judaizing and keeping the fasts with them [the Jews]."[41]

Agreed, I do not have a problem with certain Jewish cultures, just ones that conflict with Christianity.

I think of Jews more in this terminology: "Fathers of the Church view Jews as the adherents of a religion, as a spiritual entity, not merely as a race."

http://orthodoxinfo.com/phronema/antisemitism.aspx

My uncle is, in fact, a member of Messianic Judaism. I've been trying to convert him for a while.
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« Reply #285 on: July 14, 2011, 01:41:18 PM »

Agreed, I do not have a problem with certain Jewish cultures, just ones that conflict with Christianity.

Really? Why then have you posted multiple times to complain how financial institutions are "controlled by Jews"? What evidence do you have that any of those people are religiously observant and conflicting with Christianity, as opposed to merely Jewish as ethnicity? The whole Rothschild family, for example, is now intermarried with Christians and European aristocracy -- they aren't an Orthodox Jewish cabal keeping to themselves in their lair.
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« Reply #286 on: July 14, 2011, 01:59:18 PM »

No, actually, what has been happening here is that I dared to come up against one of the coddled chosen, and was attacked for it...a coddled chosen who is allowed to personally insult other members, in prideful and snotty ways,even tell them not to join the Orthodox Church, and nothing happens to him, while others who have done far less are silenced.

Do you sympathize with those "who have done far less" or support their position?

SaintIaint and his sock puppets would first appear as Orthodox cathecumens until they were debunked as anti-Semitic conspiracy mongers.  Are you more "mainstream" than they are?

EDIT: to correct grammar.
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« Reply #287 on: July 14, 2011, 02:02:09 PM »

Agreed, I do not have a problem with certain Jewish cultures, just ones that conflict with Christianity.

Really? Why then have you posted multiple times to complain how financial institutions are "controlled by Jews"? What evidence do you have that any of those people are religiously observant and conflicting with Christianity, as opposed to merely Jewish as ethnicity? The whole Rothschild family, for example, is now intermarried with Christians and European aristocracy -- they aren't an Orthodox Jewish cabal keeping to themselves in their lair.

Oh, you must not know what I meant when I said Jewish. How about the fact that they are Zionists (aka racists).

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« Reply #288 on: July 14, 2011, 02:02:10 PM »

SaintIaint and his sock puppets would first appear as Orthodox cathecumens until they were debunked as anti-Semitic conspiracy mongers.  Are you more "mainstream" than they are?

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« Reply #289 on: July 14, 2011, 02:03:14 PM »

Agreed, I do not have a problem with certain Jewish cultures, just ones that conflict with Christianity.

Really? Why then have you posted multiple times to complain how financial institutions are "controlled by Jews"? What evidence do you have that any of those people are religiously observant and conflicting with Christianity, as opposed to merely Jewish as ethnicity? The whole Rothschild family, for example, is now intermarried with Christians and European aristocracy -- they aren't an Orthodox Jewish cabal keeping to themselves in their lair.
celticfan1888 is right in this regard. We (and I believe I can speak for all of the poster who support exposure of the Jewish conspiracy) take objection to the anti-Christ nature of the Jewish religion, not the race (this is why the term "anti-Semite" is both false and slanderous). You ask than, what evidence there is concerning the religiosity of the Jewish conspirators. Many of these individuals lack a deep faith, choosing to identify with Judaism on cultural grounds. It is here where the problem lies. People may reject the faith of their upbringing, but rejecting a culture (especially one with racist and selfish tendacies) is much more difficult and requires a true realization (and condemnation) of the wickedness behind it.

Talmudism has so entrenched itself in Jewish culture that to truly free oneself from it, a rejection of the Jewish culture is necessary.
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« Reply #290 on: July 14, 2011, 02:06:10 PM »

Oh, you must not know what I meant when I said Jewish. How about the fact that they are Zionists (aka racists).

That support for the state of Israel, as opposed to just letting the neighbouring countries move in and take over, is "conflicting with Christianity" will be news to all the Russian Orthodox Christians now living in Israel.
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« Reply #291 on: July 14, 2011, 02:10:37 PM »

Many of these individuals lack a deep faith, choosing to identify with Judaism on cultural grounds. It is here where the problem lies. People may reject the faith of their upbringing, but rejecting a culture (especially one with racist and selfish tendacies) is much more difficult and requires a true realization (and condemnation) of the wickedness behind it.

Nice, you deny you are a bigot, but then you write yourself a little escape clause that you can use to continue to condemn people for no reason other than their vague ethnic identity.

Being culturally Jewish may be no more than recognizing that one's ancestors were such and not filling the void with any other religion. You have yet to provide proof that everyone you place into a Jewish conspiracy actually believes in certain dogma in conflict with Christianity.


Quote
Talmudism has so entrenched itself in Jewish culture that to truly free oneself from it, a rejection of the Jewish culture is necessary.

The Talmud is a compilation of religious law. How again are atheists (a great many Jews today, even in Israel) enslaved to its demands in minute detail of how to relate to the deity?
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« Reply #292 on: July 14, 2011, 02:12:51 PM »

Agreed, I do not have a problem with certain Jewish cultures, just ones that conflict with Christianity.

Really? Why then have you posted multiple times to complain how financial institutions are "controlled by Jews"? What evidence do you have that any of those people are religiously observant and conflicting with Christianity, as opposed to merely Jewish as ethnicity? The whole Rothschild family, for example, is now intermarried with Christians and European aristocracy -- they aren't an Orthodox Jewish cabal keeping to themselves in their lair.
celticfan1888 is right in this regard. We (and I believe I can speak for all of the poster who support exposure of the Jewish conspiracy) take objection to the anti-Christ nature of the Jewish religion, not the race (this is why the term "anti-Semite" is both false and slanderous). You ask than, what evidence there is concerning the religiosity of the Jewish conspirators. Many of these individuals lack a deep faith, choosing to identify with Judaism on cultural grounds. It is here where the problem lies. People may reject the faith of their upbringing, but rejecting a culture (especially one with racist and selfish tendacies) is much more difficult and requires a true realization (and condemnation) of the wickedness behind it.

Talmudism has so entrenched itself in Jewish culture that to truly free oneself from it, a rejection of the Jewish culture is necessary.

Sadly, this is true. The two are inextricably interwoven.
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« Reply #293 on: July 14, 2011, 02:14:13 PM »

SaintIaint and his sock puppets would first appear as Orthodox cathecumens until they were debunked as anti-Semitic conspiracy mongers.  Are you more "mainstream" than they are?

< Cartoon Editorial Redacted >

I don't see B'Nai B'rith coming to the defense of Palestinians and they still use the world Anti-Semitism to refer to Jews and to Israel:

Quote
One of the most striking international trends of the past seven years has been the dramatic growth of anti-Semitism, particularly in Europe and the Islamic world. This scourge has reached its highest level since World War II. B'nai B'rith International (BBI) is dedicated to shining the spotlight on hatred of Jews as a distinct and unique social illness, and to marshalling efforts to combat and, wherever possible, eradicate this phenomenon.
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« Reply #294 on: July 14, 2011, 02:18:05 PM »

You know, CelticFan, there ARE people on this board who don't fully support the Israeli government. It's not black and white.

The problem with many anti-Zionists is that their feelings bleed over into anti-Semitism. I've met anti-Zionists who were not anti-Semitic, and sorry to say, but the anti-"Zionist" posts in this thread aren't an example of those.
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« Reply #295 on: July 14, 2011, 02:21:38 PM »

And one more thing ( then we can start drinking).

It's interesting how you (Xenia) think because Rocor is considered strict or Traditional that it is further away from Judaism.

Judaism and Orthodox Christianity are not at two opposite poles. Your wrong assumption may be that the more Orthodox Christian you are, the less you share commonalities with Judaism.

St. John Chrysostom - "demons dwell in the synagogue". He compared the synagogue to a pagan temple, representing it as the source of all vices and heresies.

He described it as a place worse than a brothel and a drinking shop; it was a den of scoundrels, the repair of wild beasts, a temple of demons, the refuge of brigands and debauchees, and the cavern of devils, a criminal assembly of the assassins of Christ.

But I guess St. John Chrysostom is an antisemite in your eyes Marc?

St. John's stand against Judaizers is correct and I share his view. I have even argued for it when we had a nice woman from a Messianic Jewish Group on this forum... I practically scolded her.

His Antisemitic language is widely considered extreme and a flaw.. Did you  think Saints are perfect people? Others here know far more about him and this issue. It would make a good thread. I beleive I read he was repentant in later life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chrysostom

Homilies on Jews and Judaizing Christians
Main article: Adversus Judaeos

During his first two years as a presbyter in Antioch (386-387), John denounced Jews and Judaizing Christians in a series of eight homilies delivered to Christians in his congregation who were taking part in Jewish festivals and other Jewish observances.[36] It is disputed whether the main target were specifically Judaizers or Jews in general. His homilies were expressed in the conventional manner, utilizing the uncompromising rhetorical form known as the psogos (Greek: blame).

One of the purposes of these homilies was to prevent Christians from participating in Jewish customs, and thus prevent the perceived erosion of Chrysostom's flock. In his homilies, John criticized those "Judaizing Christians", who were participating in Jewish festivals and taking part in other Jewish observances, such as the shabbat, submitted to circumcision and made pilgrimage to Jewish holy places.[37] John claimed that on the shabbats and Jewish festivals synagogues were full of Christians, especially women, who loved the solemnity of the Jewish liturgy, enjoyed listening to the shofar on Rosh Hashanah, and applauded famous preachers in accordance with the contemporary custom.[38] A more recent theory is that he instead tried to persuade Jewish Christians, who for centuries had kept connections with Jews and Judaism, to choose between Judaism and Christianity.[39]

In Greek the homilies are called Kata Ioudaiōn (Κατὰ Ιουδαίων), which is translated as Adversus Judaeos in Latin and Against the Jews in English.[40] The original Benedictine editor of the homilies, Bernard de Montfaucon, gives the following footnote to the title: "A discourse against the Jews; but it was delivered against those who were Judaizing and keeping the fasts with them [the Jews]."[41]

If the above is how you, Marc, genuinely feel about Judaizing, then I have to say that we are in agreement, and the only issue I would then have with you is your abrasive personality traits.

I recognize that, although Christianity arose out of (ancient) Judaism, they are two separate faiths. The so-called "messianic Jews" annoy me to no end, because they distort history, theology and reality. They are really nothing more than evangelical Protestants who are sometimes of  Jewish heritage  who seek to use Jewish symbology in order to deceive unsuspecting Jews.

If you want to convert Jews to the Christian Faith, do so honestly. If you're worried they will reject the Gospel if they know upfront you are Christians, so be it. There is a reason why when I became a believer in Jesus Christ that I entered the (Traditional) Roman Catholic Church, and not "messianic Judaism". I am a student of religious and ancient history, and I knew that the "messianic Jews" were just a fancy, modern term for evamgelicals posing as Jews. The Panarion of St Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis listed the many heresies of the early Church, and you will find "messianic Jews" int here, albeit under their ancient names.

There is really no new heresy today; they all existed when the Church was first founded. They just morph with new names.
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« Reply #296 on: July 14, 2011, 02:22:09 PM »

Oh, you must not know what I meant when I said Jewish. How about the fact that they are Zionists (aka racists).

That support for the state of Israel, as opposed to just letting the neighbouring countries move in and take over, is "conflicting with Christianity" will be news to all the Russian Orthodox Christians now living in Israel.

You mean support of the Jews running in, killing Palestinian families and taking their land? I guess in your world the Palestinians don't have the right to live because you don't like arabs? Look who's thebigot now.


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« Reply #297 on: July 14, 2011, 02:28:19 PM »

You mean support of the Jews running in, killing Palestinian families and taking their land?

The growth of Russian Orthodoxy in Israel is mainly found along the Mediterranean coast. That's been part of Israel since 1948, and even if one disagrees about whether the creation of Israel should have happened, what's done there is done.

If you are attempting to portray any supporter of the existence of Israel as a fan of the current settlements, that's easily refutable. Polls in the Israeli press regularly show a good level of disgust with settlements.

Get some sense and see that in throwing out the bathwater of settlement expansion, you should not throw out the baby of a state that allows rapid growth of Orthodoxy. If Israel were to cease to exist and the surrounding Arab countries were to control the future of the land, there would not be such growth in Orthodoxy. One only has to look at the bleak fate of Christians in the Arab Levant, where they cannot evangelize and are forced to accept the Muslim status quo.

Quote
I guess in your world the Palestinians don't have the right to live because you don't like arabs? Look who's thebigot now.

The Palestinian population is growing at a nice pace. No one is saying "the Palestinians don't have the right to live."
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« Reply #298 on: July 14, 2011, 02:30:59 PM »

Quote
You mean support of the Jews running in, killing Palestinian families and taking their land?

Really? You're actually going to use that argument? Seriously? Someone fell asleep during history class. As if Israelis are the only ones doing this stuff...and palestinians are strapping bombs to people and blowing up jewish school houses ONLY in retaliation to what israelis do...not to mention that a great deal of the peace treaties are NEVER broken by palestinians ever....

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« Reply #299 on: July 14, 2011, 02:36:29 PM »

Nice, you deny you are a bigot, but then you write yourself a little escape clause that you can use to continue to condemn people for no reason other than their vague ethnic identity.
Sure, go ahead and throw out your little cliche terms. Bigot, anti-Semite, racist, conspiracy theorist, etc. Just take your pick. It certainly doesn't help your cause in any intelligent debate, but it helps the drugged sheeple in discerning which views are contrary to that of their overlords.

Being culturally Jewish may be no more than recognizing that one's ancestors were such and not filling the void with any other religion. You have yet to provide proof that everyone you place into a Jewish conspiracy actually believes in certain dogma in conflict with Christianity.
That is wrong, the Jewish culture is much more than ancestor recognition (actually that's not even culture). The Jews have always maintained a culture apart from that of the nation in which they reside. In their close nit communities, Talmudism seeps into all aspects of life, its hatred filling the hearts of countless, impressionable Jews. If you need proof of that, just look at the secular, Jewish support for the genocidal state of Israel.
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« Reply #300 on: July 14, 2011, 02:37:03 PM »

Two very good books to read (one by a Melkite Catholic archbishop who lived in the Holy Land at the time the zionists took over, the other by an Orthodox writer) are:

Blood Brothers by Elias Chacour

A Second Look at the Second Coming (Conciliar Press)

The second book is especially good: the author, an Orthodox Christian, shows the fallacies in "Christian" zionism, and explain how harmful it has been to the indigenous Christians who live in the Holy Land, many of whom are of Arab ancestry. The book also explains the Orthodox position on who constitutes "Israel". I cannot recommend this book highly enough.
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« Reply #301 on: July 14, 2011, 02:40:16 PM »

That is wrong, the Jewish culture is much more than ancestor recognition (actually that's not even culture). The Jews have always maintained a culture apart from that of the nation in which they reside.

Is it a sin to maintain a different culture than the majority of the country? Tell that to all of the Roma who remain in good standing with the Orthodox Church. And I guess all of those little ethnic enclaves in my neck of the woods -- the Banat Bulgarians, the Gagauz, the Transylvanian Saxons, the Banat Croatians, the handful of Phanariot Greeks left -- are major sinners for not instantly becoming Romanians.

Quote
In their close nit communities, Talmudism seeps into all aspects of life, its hatred filling the hearts of countless, impressionable Jews.

If that were true, there wouldn't be so many atheist Jews, or Jews who want to explore Hinduism or Buddhism. Have you ever walked into a bookstore in Israel and seen all the Eastern religion stuff on offer?

Quote
If you need proof of that, just look at the secular, Jewish support for the genocidal state of Israel.

Again, there is support for the existence of Israel among many Christians too. Not only the Russian Orthodox who moved to Israel on the basis of Jewish ancestry, but also the Arab Christians in places like Haifa that are happy they ended up on the right side of the border.
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« Reply #302 on: July 14, 2011, 02:42:09 PM »

Really? You're actually going to use that argument? Seriously? Someone fell asleep during history class.
If anyone feel asleep during the Prussian-style brainwashing of the pubic school system, the good on them. Society wouldn't be half as screwed up.

strapping bombs to people and blowing up jewish school houses ONLY in retaliation to what israelis do
That is quite accurate. Do you have any evidence to suggest that Palestinian terrorism towards the Jews would exist apart from the existence of Israel?
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« Reply #303 on: July 14, 2011, 02:43:43 PM »

A Second Look at the Second Coming (Conciliar Press)

The second book is especially good: the author, an Orthodox Christian, shows the fallacies in "Christian" zionism, and explain how harmful it has been to the indigenous Christians who live in the Holy Land, many of whom are of Arab ancestry. The book also explains the Orthodox position on who constitutes "Israel". I cannot recommend this book highly enough.

Meh. Any member on this board who is sane about Zionism (that is opposed to it, unlike marc) ain't going to get much out of this text that ain't been gone over here . . . over and over.

Just for fun, who is "Israel" for the Daily Double? I love a particular exegesis.
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« Reply #304 on: July 14, 2011, 02:44:38 PM »

That is quite accurate. Do you have any evidence to suggest that Palestinian terrorism towards the Jews would exist apart from the existence of Israel?

What do you think Palestinians born in the West Bank would do to the people born in Israel if the state of Israel suddenly ceased to exist? Do you think that they would suddenly lovingly embrace the people living there when they took control of the land?
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« Reply #305 on: July 14, 2011, 02:46:13 PM »

That is quite accurate. Do you have any evidence to suggest that Palestinian terrorism towards the Jews would exist apart from the existence of Israel?

What do you think Palestinians born in the West Bank would do to the people born in Israel if the state of Israel suddenly ceased to exist? Do you think that they would suddenly lovingly embrace the people living there when they took control of the land?

That definitely should be the measure we use to inform our foreign policy of supporting a genocidal regime.
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« Reply #306 on: July 14, 2011, 02:47:29 PM »

A Second Look at the Second Coming (Conciliar Press)

The second book is especially good: the author, an Orthodox Christian, shows the fallacies in "Christian" zionism, and explain how harmful it has been to the indigenous Christians who live in the Holy Land, many of whom are of Arab ancestry. The book also explains the Orthodox position on who constitutes "Israel". I cannot recommend this book highly enough.

The indigenous Christian community was shrinking and persecuted well before the existence of Zionism. And it is the Arab Christians who wound up within Israel who can openly evangelize, not those in the Palestinian Territories.

While the Orthodox should be wary of American Evangelicals' theological claims for supporting Israel, there are perfectly good Orthodox reasons to support the state of Israel.
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« Reply #307 on: July 14, 2011, 02:48:31 PM »

That definitely should be the measure we use to inform our foreign policy of supporting a genocidal regime.

What genocide? Populations are rising on all sides in that part of the world.

Orthonorm, do you care about building new parishes and sharing the Gospel, or do you only care about leftist slogans about "human rights" that in effect deny people an encounter with Christ's Church?
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« Reply #308 on: July 14, 2011, 02:50:07 PM »

Is it a sin to maintain a different culture than the majority of the country? Tell that to all of the Roma who remain in good standing with the Orthodox Church. And I guess all of those little ethnic enclaves in my neck of the woods -- the Banat Bulgarians, the Gagauz, the Transylvanian Saxons, the Banat Croatians, the handful of Phanariot Greeks left -- are major sinners for not instantly becoming Romanians.
Where in the world the I state that having a culture apart from the majority is sinful? Did you actually read my post? If that is what you got out of it, you missed the point.

If that were true, there wouldn't be so many atheist Jews, or Jews who want to explore Hinduism or Buddhism. Have you ever walked into a bookstore in Israel and seen all the Eastern religion stuff on offer?
Because acceptance of a new religion does not wash away a cultural upbringing. One could even convert to Orthodoxy while maintaining racist and Zionist tendencies.

Again, there is support for the existence of Israel among many Christians too. Not only the Russian Orthodox who moved to Israel on the basis of Jewish ancestry, but also the Arab Christians in places like Haifa that are happy they ended up on the right side of the border.
And I would be willing to say that none of these individuals know the truth behind fake Israel. The VAST majority of Christian Zionists are of the heretical dispensationalist flavor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m6pPnQjn7w&feature=related
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« Reply #309 on: July 14, 2011, 02:50:37 PM »

That definitely should be the measure we use to inform our foreign policy of supporting a genocidal regime.

What genocide? Populations are rising on all sides in that part of the world.

You obviously have a impoverished view of what genocide means. Type it into google and read how the sane members international community understand it.

The forcible displacement of a people is an act of genocide.
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« Reply #310 on: July 14, 2011, 02:54:35 PM »

Because acceptance of a new religion does not wash away a cultural upbringing.

You have yet to provide evidence that all whom you ascribe to a Jewish conspiracy preserve any specific elements of their cultural upbringing. How do you know that they don't only preserve the ethnic moniker and think negatively about some parts of Jewish traditional culture?

I suspect you're setting yourself up to utter the No True Scotsman fallacy.

The VAST majority of Christian Zionists are of the heretical dispensationalist flavor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m6pPnQjn7w&feature=related

Just because some Christians somewhere support Israel for certain reasons, that does not mean that other Christians elsewhere support Israel for the same reasons.
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« Reply #311 on: July 14, 2011, 02:57:15 PM »

The forcible displacement of a people is an act of genocide.

If forcible displacement bothers you so much, then you would be going against a great deal of Christian state policy through the ages as well. You have to consider the effects of this forcible displacement -- namely, it has been good for the Church -- not just dismiss it out of hand as illicit, which is only secular human rights thinking.
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« Reply #312 on: July 14, 2011, 02:58:21 PM »

That is quite accurate. Do you have any evidence to suggest that Palestinian terrorism towards the Jews would exist apart from the existence of Israel?

What do you think Palestinians born in the West Bank would do to the people born in Israel if the state of Israel suddenly ceased to exist? Do you think that they would suddenly lovingly embrace the people living there when they took control of the land?
Immediately, no. The damage has in many ways already been dealt and consequently, there is much bitterness dividing the two groups. Abolition of the Israeli state would be the first step. Allowing the the Palestinians to move back home would be a move towards reconciliation. It would be much easier, however, for the Jews to return to their countries of origin.
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« Reply #313 on: July 14, 2011, 03:00:05 PM »

Quote
You mean support of the Jews running in, killing Palestinian families and taking their land?

Really? You're actually going to use that argument? Seriously? Someone fell asleep during history class. As if Israelis are the only ones doing this stuff...and palestinians are strapping bombs to people and blowing up jewish school houses ONLY in retaliation to what israelis do...not to mention that a great deal of the peace treaties are NEVER broken by palestinians ever....

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Really Israel never does anything like that...? They've killed your fellow americans...

"How pathetic and grotesque that today, Israel, which already, last spring, attacked an unarmed Turkish- flagged vessel bound for Gaza, killing nine people including a 19-year-old American youth who was executed while he lay wounded on the deck by several shots to the head fired by Israeli Defense Force troops, is not only being told it can attack a whole shipload of peaceful and unarmed American protesters (carrying only a cargo of letters expressing a desire for the peaceful liberation of Gaza). It is literally being invited to do so, by an American president and his Secretary of State."

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/678
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« Reply #314 on: July 14, 2011, 03:00:05 PM »

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even if one disagrees about whether the creation of Israel should have happened, what's done there is done.

No, No. It should've never happened and it was wrong. I love how you want to let it go, I think it's because your family and your way of life werent affected by this. Fact of the matter is, the State of Israel is no better, probably worse, than what Nazi Germany did in regards to invading Poland.

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If Israel were to cease to exist and the surrounding Arab countries were to control the future of the land, there would not be such growth in Orthodoxy.

1) You should probably look up Israel's Law of Return. Neither of us could ever gain citizenship there as Christians.

2) They tax the living crap out of Christians and Christian organizations.

3) Not to mention they show things like this on Israeli TV mocking Jesus and Christianity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA6vRC1xW_c

4) They just built an Orthodox Church in the United Arab Emirates...

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Forgive my sins.
Tags: Jews anti-Semitism 
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