Author Topic: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?  (Read 2994 times)

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Offline Severian

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Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« on: July 04, 2011, 02:41:37 PM »
Does anyone know where I can find a decent icon of Saint Dioscorus? Most of the ones I find are either too small, or poorly photographed, or just aren't very pleasing to the eye (yes, the aesthetics of an icon are important to me).

Here are all the ones I could find:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PopeDioscorosI.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St._Dioscorus.jpg
http://www.copt.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/pillars-dioscorus.jpg

It's a shame he isn't depicted as much as other Saints, he is so dear to my heart.

Thank you,
Severian
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Offline Jonathan

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2011, 03:34:02 PM »
www.smcoc.ca/Scan10008.TIF



Just for future reference, when giving a link you are supposed to put a short description of what it is.  
Thanks,  
Salpy   :)

« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 07:58:12 PM by Salpy »

Offline Severian

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 03:45:11 PM »
www.smcoc.ca/Scan10008.TIF

Unfortunately, the link doesn't seem to work. Thanks anyway!  :)
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Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline Jonathan

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Offline Severian

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2011, 04:06:48 PM »
Thanks. It's beautiful. What great colors. I assume the one on the left is St. Dioscorus and the other is Saint Severus?
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Offline Jonathan

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2011, 04:28:59 PM »
Thanks. It's beautiful. What great colors. I assume the one on the left is St. Dioscorus and the other is Saint Severus?

Looks to me like the one on the left says "Abba Severos" and the one on the right "Abba Dioscoros".

It's from the 13th century (I think) icons at St. Antony's Monastary in Egypt. My brother-in-law takes pictures every year when he visits, and once and a while they turn out.

Offline zekarja

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2011, 11:20:23 AM »
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 11:21:33 AM by zekarja »

Offline Severian

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2011, 11:21:23 AM »
Here is one:
Thank you so much!

EDIT: I framed your icon and put it in my prayer corner. I am going to Church today so I might even show it to my Priest to get it blessed. He'll probably really like it, my Priest also values the patronage of our Teacher St Dioscorus the Confessor. Thank you again!
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 11:32:40 AM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

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Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2011, 04:03:14 PM »
Here is one:
Thank you so much!

EDIT: I framed your icon and put it in my prayer corner. I am going to Church today so I might even show it to my Priest to get it blessed. He'll probably really like it, my Priest also values the patronage of our Teacher St Dioscorus the Confessor. Thank you again!
How are icons blessed in the Coptic Church?
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Offline zekarja

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2011, 04:57:50 PM »
Here is one:
Thank you so much!

EDIT: I framed your icon and put it in my prayer corner. I am going to Church today so I might even show it to my Priest to get it blessed. He'll probably really like it, my Priest also values the patronage of our Teacher St Dioscorus the Confessor. Thank you again!
You're welcome! I was fortunate to come across it. :)

Offline Severian

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2011, 05:55:15 PM »
How are icons blessed in the Coptic Church?
Not sure actually... I guess he'd just make the sign of the cross on it. Or at least that's what I've seen my Priest do when he blesses things (like drivers licences, for example), he may just sprinkle things with holy water. I would have brought the icon mostly for the reason that my Priest also really loves St Dioscorus, getting it blessed would have been a secondary option.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 06:08:40 PM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2011, 07:12:29 PM »
Why on earth would you bless a drivers' license?

Offline Severian

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2011, 10:23:09 PM »
Why on earth would you bless a drivers' license?
LOL. :laugh: The kid first got his driver's license and as a joke he asked my Priest "Abounah can you bless it?" As I said, it was more of a humorous gesture than anything else.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 10:38:14 PM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline Jonathan

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2011, 02:09:36 PM »
How are icons blessed in the Coptic Church?

The icons used in the church are consecrated by a bishop using the holy myroun (chrism). Some people have the icons in their home blessed by a bishop in the same way. When I didn't know about this, I asked my priest about getting an icon given to me as a gift for my baptism blessed, and he said that normally only the icons in the church are blessed. We don't have the custom of placing icons on the altar during the Liturgy to bless them like EO do, nor are icons normally blessed with a quick sign of the cross as is the RC practice. Priests normally bless water, pray asking a home, car, etc., be blessed, and sprinkle the water around the home or on the car, etc. This is not normally done with icons, I would assume to avoid confusion with icons that have been consecrated by a bishop.

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2011, 02:45:44 PM »
How are icons blessed in the Coptic Church?

The icons used in the church are consecrated by a bishop using the holy myroun (chrism). Some people have the icons in their home blessed by a bishop in the same way. When I didn't know about this, I asked my priest about getting an icon given to me as a gift for my baptism blessed, and he said that normally only the icons in the church are blessed. We don't have the custom of placing icons on the altar during the Liturgy to bless them like EO do, nor are icons normally blessed with a quick sign of the cross as is the RC practice. Priests normally bless water, pray asking a home, car, etc., be blessed, and sprinkle the water around the home or on the car, etc. This is not normally done with icons, I would assume to avoid confusion with icons that have been consecrated by a bishop.
Fwiw, here's a video of HH Pope Shenouda consecrating icons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpgtgplMCZA

And thanks for clarifying that Johnathan. :)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 02:57:52 PM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2011, 03:25:32 PM »
Fwiw, here's a video of HH Pope Shenouda consecrating icons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpgtgplMCZA

The mitre that His Holiness is wearing looks pretty Byzantine. Does all Coptic bishops wear mitres like that or is it reserved for the pope?

Offline Severian

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2011, 03:30:47 PM »
Fwiw, here's a video of HH Pope Shenouda consecrating icons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpgtgplMCZA

The mitre that His Holiness is wearing looks pretty Byzantine. Does all Coptic bishops wear mitres like that or is it reserved for the pope?
The only two Coptic Bishops I have seen wear the Byzantine style mitre are His Holiness and HE Abba Seraphim of the British Orthodox Church.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 03:32:06 PM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2011, 01:04:43 PM »
Fwiw, here's a video of HH Pope Shenouda consecrating icons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpgtgplMCZA

The mitre that His Holiness is wearing looks pretty Byzantine. Does all Coptic bishops wear mitres like that or is it reserved for the pope?

I believe that specific mitre was a gift from the Russian Patriarch Alexy II of blessed memory.
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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2011, 01:23:32 PM »
I don't think that Abba Seraphim often wears his Byzantine style crown, although it is beautiful. He wears it on the most solemn occasions, otherwise he wears a Coptic metropolitans hat. He wore it at the consecration of a Church, and at my ordination, for instance.

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Offline Severian

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2011, 10:02:06 PM »
Another Icon of our Holy Father:
http://karmaicons.com/fresco/fres21.htm
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 10:08:38 PM by Severian »
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

May the 21 new martyrs pray for us all.

Please, remember me in your prayers

Lord, protect Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq.

Offline copticuser20

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2011, 11:08:01 AM »
How are icons blessed in the Coptic Church?

The icons used in the church are consecrated by a bishop using the holy myroun (chrism). Some people have the icons in their home blessed by a bishop in the same way. When I didn't know about this, I asked my priest about getting an icon given to me as a gift for my baptism blessed, and he said that normally only the icons in the church are blessed. We don't have the custom of placing icons on the altar during the Liturgy to bless them like EO do, nor are icons normally blessed with a quick sign of the cross as is the RC practice. Priests normally bless water, pray asking a home, car, etc., be blessed, and sprinkle the water around the home or on the car, etc. This is not normally done with icons, I would assume to avoid confusion with icons that have been consecrated by a bishop.
Coptic Icons for houses are not consecrated. Consecrations of icons means that they are for the church and do not leave the church.

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2011, 09:38:29 PM »
Another one:


The bottom of the Icon says "Bensak Dioskoros".
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Offline Jonathan

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2011, 10:58:44 PM »
How are icons blessed in the Coptic Church?

The icons used in the church are consecrated by a bishop using the holy myroun (chrism). Some people have the icons in their home blessed by a bishop in the same way. When I didn't know about this, I asked my priest about getting an icon given to me as a gift for my baptism blessed, and he said that normally only the icons in the church are blessed. We don't have the custom of placing icons on the altar during the Liturgy to bless them like EO do, nor are icons normally blessed with a quick sign of the cross as is the RC practice. Priests normally bless water, pray asking a home, car, etc., be blessed, and sprinkle the water around the home or on the car, etc. This is not normally done with icons, I would assume to avoid confusion with icons that have been consecrated by a bishop.
Coptic Icons for houses are not consecrated. Consecrations of icons means that they are for the church and do not leave the church.

Well... some people have had icons in their houses consecrated by bishops... should that happen is another question... I don't know. It would seem weird to me to have the icons in the whole house consecrated (thought not that weird, I don't see how it's much different than the EO practice of placing the icons on the altar to bless them.  The Holy Spirit comes down upon the Altar in the Liturgy, and the Holy Spirit is received in Chrism, so it seems pretty parallel to me, but I really don't know what the rule is.)

Some (very few) people even have altars in their houses that are consecrated, so certainly they could have consecrated icons with them. I've seen one altar in a retired priest's house... it was basically just a walk in closet with an altar in the middle where he prayed the Liturgy in his home (of course not alone). I've never seen this in the house of a layman, but I have certainly heard of icons in the house of laymen being consecrated by a bishop.

Offline zekarja

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2011, 12:42:10 PM »
Oops, already posted.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 12:43:53 PM by zekarja »

Offline samkim

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2011, 04:46:03 PM »
www.smcoc.ca/Scan10008.TIF

Unfortunately, the link doesn't seem to work. Thanks anyway!  :)

Try http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/sevdios.jpg

Interesting to see them vested as Byzantine churchmen. Were byzantine vestments used in Syria and Alexandria?
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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2011, 03:06:23 PM »
www.smcoc.ca/Scan10008.TIF

Unfortunately, the link doesn't seem to work. Thanks anyway!  :)

Try http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/sevdios.jpg

It's the first time I see the Coptic name of Alexandria "Rakoti" used instead of the usual Greek name. I would love to know more about the history of this icon.
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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2011, 04:24:48 PM »
The remarks on how Copts bless icons are of interest to me in their similarity to very old Western prayers for icons, which indicate the practice of applying chrism (myron) in consecrating an icon. It does appear that the Eastern Orthodox prayers for blessing icons (this is done more in the Russian than the Greek church, I gather), which involve sprinkling with holy water, are borrowed from the Western rite, not as to exact text but as to certain core texts, which were (later, apparently) woven into a complex and full "service."

Now I wonder if Copts got this from Western rite clergy, or maybe vice versa? And whether any (hypothetical) cross-fertilisation occurred pre-1054, in the middle ages, or later on.

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2011, 04:31:08 PM »
It does appear that the Eastern Orthodox prayers for blessing icons (this is done more in the Russian than the Greek church, I gather), which involve sprinkling with holy water, are borrowed from the Western rite, not as to exact text but as to certain core texts, which were (later, apparently) woven into a complex and full "service."
Perhaps the western texts and eastern service both draw from another common source.
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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2011, 05:16:20 PM »
Fwiw, here's a video of HH Pope Shenouda consecrating icons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpgtgplMCZA

The mitre that His Holiness is wearing looks pretty Byzantine. Does all Coptic bishops wear mitres like that or is it reserved for the pope?
The only two Coptic Bishops I have seen wear the Byzantine style mitre are His Holiness and HE Abba Seraphim of the British Orthodox Church.

I've seen other bishops wear them as well, usually those bishops that are officially diocesan bishops.  Their Graces Bishop Serapion of California and Bishop Sourial of Australia are examples of bishops wearing mitres.
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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2011, 05:43:56 PM »
selam to all

 what does'' Bensak" mean?

thank you in advance
selam. :)
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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2011, 05:47:53 PM »
selam to all

 what does'' Bensak" mean?

thank you in advance
selam. :)
"Our teacher". In the Coptic liturgy St. Dioscorus is referred to as "our teacher Dioscorus".

EDIT: Actually "our teacher" in Coptic is spelled with a "khai" rather than a "kappa". So the Icon probably more accurately reads "Bensakh" Dioskoros rather than "Bensak Dioskoros". My bad. :P

« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 06:00:56 PM by Severian »
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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2011, 06:56:49 PM »
Thank you so much Severian ;D so today I learnt one Coptic word yay!
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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2011, 10:09:27 PM »
The remarks on how Copts bless icons are of interest to me in their similarity to very old Western prayers for icons, which indicate the practice of applying chrism (myron) in consecrating an icon. It does appear that the Eastern Orthodox prayers for blessing icons (this is done more in the Russian than the Greek church, I gather), which involve sprinkling with holy water, are borrowed from the Western rite, not as to exact text but as to certain core texts, which were (later, apparently) woven into a complex and full "service."

Now I wonder if Copts got this from Western rite clergy, or maybe vice versa? And whether any (hypothetical) cross-fertilisation occurred pre-1054, in the middle ages, or later on.

The Armenian Church also uses chrism in consecrating icons for the church.  My understanding is that it is an ancient practice.

Offline Jonathan

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2011, 10:50:58 PM »
www.smcoc.ca/Scan10008.TIF

Unfortunately, the link doesn't seem to work. Thanks anyway!  :)

Try http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/sevdios.jpg

It's the first time I see the Coptic name of Alexandria "Rakoti" used instead of the usual Greek name. I would love to know more about the history of this icon.

This book is about the restoration of these icons (it has a lot of pictures of the icons, and the monks there have their own pictures of them for reproductions):

http://books.google.com/books/about/Monastic_visions.html?id=wUrPXHH1zqYC

Offline copticmind

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2011, 05:29:16 AM »
www.smcoc.ca/Scan10008.TIF

Unfortunately, the link doesn't seem to work. Thanks anyway!  :)

Try http://www.stmaryscopticorthodox.ca/sevdios.jpg

It's the first time I see the Coptic name of Alexandria "Rakoti" used instead of the usual Greek name. I would love to know more about the history of this icon.

This book is about the restoration of these icons (it has a lot of pictures of the icons, and the monks there have their own pictures of them for reproductions):

http://books.google.com/books/about/Monastic_visions.html?id=wUrPXHH1zqYC

Thanks for the book recommendation Jonathan, So It's an icon from St. Anthony's monastery in Egypt, I have been there before the restoration, and God willing I'll go there again one day. I heard about this book also in this ancient faith podcast.
Ⲡⲁϭⲟⲓⲥ Ⲓⲏⲥ Ⲡⲭⲥ ⳿ⲡϣⲏⲣⲓ ⳿ⲙ⳿Ⲫⲛⲟⲩϯ ⲛⲁⲓ ⲛⲏⲓ ⲁⲛⲟⲕ ⲡⲓⲣⲉϥⲉⲣⲛⲟⲃⲓ
يا ربي يسوع المسيح ابن الله ارحمني أنا الخاطئ

Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: Icons of Saint Dioscorus?
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2011, 11:31:02 AM »
Thanks for the book recommendation Jonathan, So It's an icon from St. Anthony's monastery in Egypt, I have been there before the restoration, and God willing I'll go there again one day. I heard about this book also in this ancient faith podcast.

Wow, that was a voice from the past. I knew Abouna Anastasi from before he became a monk, truly a wonderful and holy man.
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