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Author Topic: Putting my past behind me  (Read 1080 times) Average Rating: 0
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Xenia1918
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« on: July 02, 2011, 09:35:16 PM »

To summarize in brief: I was born/raised an Orthodox Jew, chose to become a Traditional RC in 1978 when I was 18 (something that had been greatly assisted by 3 years of Latin in junior high), eventually fell away when the Traditional Latin parish disbanded/moved away due to their priest passing away, drifted around for years, finally decided to return to the Orthodox Judaism of my childhood out of desperation for some sort of spiritual communion (and knowing it could be found only in Judaism or Christianity)...felt I might as well go back to Orthodox Judaism and be the best Jew I could be, since the gates of hell had obviously prevailed against the RCC as a result of Vatican II....I learned of Orthodox Christianity in 1991 from a new Orthodox convert friend, but still thinking that if any form of Christianity was true it had to be the RCC, yet they had become the abode of devils, so I might as well just stick it out with Judaism and do the best I could (and I did; I raised 3 children as religious Jews, though only one still is)....

I know that if I join the Orthodox Church I can never again attend any liturgy of any other religion. I was on Youtube, watching some Traditional Latin Tridentine Masses and also some Latin videos....feeling sentimental, thinking of my mother's relatives who left the RCC in 1970 after the first changes went into effect, remembering their heartbreak (my mom was a RC convert to Orthodox Judaism in 1944); I wonder if other potential converts go through a period of mourning for their past which they will never be able to experience again? I wonder if my mother felt this way after she converted to Orthodox Judaism...wistfully reflecting on her RC childhood, which from what she told me, was actually very pleasant 'except for the incense at Mass, which made me want to pass out'? Smiley

Do all converts go through a period of mourning for their past religious life? For some reason I'm not mourning my Jewish past, probably because of how angry I still feel at how they lied to and deceived me. The only thing Rome did to me was change, but I'm thankful because if not for that, I might have stayed with them and never found the Orthodox Faith. Yet I still mourn the good memories I had, the friends I made, the beauty that was and still is the Tridentine Mass.

At age 51, starting a new life in so many ways....Orthodox Judaism and Traditional Catholicism are part of my familial heritage, and I can never truly hate either one. Be angry at them, yes, for deceiving me or betraying me. But never hate them, not really. I am thankful to both of them, for they led me to where I am today.
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TheodoraElizabeth3
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2011, 09:45:22 PM »

I guess it depends on what exactly you miss. I was raised NO RC, lapsed at 18 for 10 years, than became an Episcopalian, where I was for 5 years before becoming Orthodox.

I miss some of the hymns from when I was Episcopalian, especially during Advent/Christmas. So, I'll find them online and sing them myself at home. Once or twice I've gotten together with church friends who are also former Episcopalians, and we had a bit of fun singing some of our old favorites. But that's about it.

All in all, I don't miss much from either. Orthodoxy has so many positives.
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biro
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2011, 11:14:14 PM »

I've been through the same. I think it's natural, when one thing has taken up so much of your time.
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2011, 04:52:28 PM »

I was RC and have never looked back.  The only thing I kept was the Czestochowa icon which is actually Orthodox.
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2011, 05:05:20 PM »

I was raised RC and attended a Ruthenian parish for nearly 10 years before finally swimming the Bosphorus, so to speak.  I have been back to a Roman Mass maybe five times in the past 4 years (three or four funerals and my parents' 50th anniversary Mass) and I felt no pull of nostalgia whatsoever even though I apparently know the NO Mass better than most of those present at the Masses I've attended (12 years of serving at the altar is hard to forget! Wink ).
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 03:40:15 PM »

I was born and raised Lutheran and was an active and happy member of my Lutheran parish. I sang in the choir from when I was a child, Luther League, church council, Sunday School teacher, worship assistant, homilist etc. etc. I was even on my way to seminary with a goal of serving as ordained clergy. My Lutheran faith was a part of my culture, heritage, family life and all the rest, as well as my religious belief.

So I have sometimes been "homesick," and missed the familiarity of my Lutheran church. Sometimes Orthodoxy is like being the new in-law at a family reunion. But I have never considered returning. Orthodoxy is the one True Faith - to quote a fairly famous Lutheran, "Here I stand. I can do no other, God helping me."
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2011, 04:53:52 PM »

I don't miss my previous worship traditions but I certainly do miss several my old friends and fellow-worshippers.  It's not so much that they won't have anything to do with me, but the paradigm shift is/was pretty substantial.  It makes it hard to hold conversations of a religious nature with them.  Also, I've found  that when you stop seeing someone on a regular basis, such as church on Sundays, it can be hard to keep the friendship at the same level it was before.  In many ways it's as if I moved to a different part of the country.   

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sainthieu
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2011, 07:00:48 PM »

Xenia:

Everyone's story is different; some people have a much harder time than others. It seems that while you're grateful for the illumination, you're also still very angry. Forgive the past; it can't be changed. Put the burden down. Concentrate on all the good things God has given you and those He is sending your way. You don't have to abandon those you love; you'll just have a slightly different relationship to them. In light of the person you will be becoming, it will be fine.
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Xenia1918
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2011, 07:12:54 PM »

Xenia:

Everyone's story is different; some people have a much harder time than others. It seems that while you're grateful for the illumination, you're also still very angry. Forgive the past; it can't be changed. Put the burden down. Concentrate on all the good things God has given you and those He is sending your way. You don't have to abandon those you love; you'll just have a slightly different relationship to them. In light of the person you will be becoming, it will be fine.

I'll tell you the main thing I am angry about, re: Jewish rabbis. I learned through study that all the things I was told Christians did (twisted the Jewish Scriptures to make them sound like Jesus, etc) are actually the things the rabbis did in reverse (junked the LXX and came out with the Masoretic, and retranslated passages such as Is 7:14 to sound LESS like Jesus)....so many lies were taught to me,  and to every other Jew....how many Jews died without even the possibility of knowing Christ because of their lies and deception? Now I fully understand what Christ meant in St John 8:44 when he called them liars.

How do I forgive them setting certain events into play that caused most Jews to die without Christ?
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2011, 09:11:07 PM »

How do I forgive them setting certain events into play that caused most Jews to die without Christ?

There is a very real possibility that you cannot.  There are many people in this world who cannot forgive people such as Stalin, Hitler or Mao.  None of these horrible people brought tragedy to me or my family, but I can understand how there are some people who cannot forgive men like these.  But I do truly believe that God can forgive them and bring them into his kingdom.  Why?  I believe that God can forgive even those we cannot because I feel men like these did such terrible things because they were unhappy and had no love in their lives, let alone the love of God.
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Xenia1918
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2011, 09:32:24 PM »

How do I forgive them setting certain events into play that caused most Jews to die without Christ?

There is a very real possibility that you cannot.  There are many people in this world who cannot forgive people such as Stalin, Hitler or Mao.  None of these horrible people brought tragedy to me or my family, but I can understand how there are some people who cannot forgive men like these.  But I do truly believe that God can forgive them and bring them into his kingdom.  Why?  I believe that God can forgive even those we cannot because I feel men like these did such terrible things because they were unhappy and had no love in their lives, let alone the love of God.

But here is the horrible question I ask myself: might these ancient rabbis have known that Jesus was the Mashiach (Christ), and still done all this?
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"O God, enlarge within us the sense of fellowship with all living things, our brothers the animals to whom Thou gavest the earth as their home in common with us..." (from the Prayer of St Basil the Great)

REAL RC: http://www.traditionalmass.org
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2011, 10:03:55 PM »

But here is the horrible question I ask myself: might these ancient rabbis have known that Jesus was the Mashiach (Christ), and still done all this?

Personally I don't think so.  I believe the ancient rabbis not only did not believe, but also did not want to believe.  If you think about it in a broad scope, throughout the OT we see god saving his people by wiping out their enemies.  In other words, the Israelites understood power, plain and simple.  When they were in a tight spot, they would ask God to wipe out their enemies and be done with it.  They would rejoice, worship God, etc., but as many people did they forget.  They resumed sinning and thus God let their enemies have their way with them.  The Babylonians, Persians, Romans....a lot of enemies there.  For a long while the jews believed that God had turned their back on them since hadn't been smiting their enemies with the frequency they were accustomed to.  Of course the Son of David was prophesied to deliver them to their promised land, and you can bet all the jews back in the day were on the lookout for some sign of divine smiting. 

So here you have all common jews who have read of the Son of David returning, thus they're expecting someone to show up with God's power ready to smite any and all in his path - again, they are used to understanding power from the perspective of smiting others.  But when Jesus shows up claiming to be God and not smiting their enemies as they expected, well you can understand they were probably pretty upset because they're expecting divine smitation and this guy comes around preaching love. 

The problem here is (and this is my opinion) the jews were incredibly close-minded and didn't understand that the Son of David had returned.  Perhaps God understood that he couldn't keep intervening in their affairs by smiting everyone so a different approach was necessary, a message of peace and love - a new covenant.  Look at all the miracles Jesus performed.  Raising Lazarus from the dead and rising from the dead himself....what greater power could there be?  And still the jews did not understand; there are many who still do not even today.

The rabbis back then undoubtedly did not want to believe it because it as simple as the fact that they wanted to retain what power they had among jews.  When Jesus comes along telling us of the new covenant, well, that would pretty much put them off to the side but they did not understand there was a greater destiny here:  their promised land was being delivered to them in the form of the church.
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Xenia1918
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2011, 10:32:12 PM »

Kodiak, That's a great way of putting it! Smiley
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"O God, enlarge within us the sense of fellowship with all living things, our brothers the animals to whom Thou gavest the earth as their home in common with us..." (from the Prayer of St Basil the Great)

REAL RC: http://www.traditionalmass.org
REAL OC: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com
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