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Question: Did the Pharaoh of the Exodus drown in the Red Sea?
Yes
No

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Author Topic: Pharaoh's Fate  (Read 1234 times) Average Rating: 0
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Theophilos78
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« on: July 02, 2011, 03:11:14 PM »

There are different and opposing views concerning Pharaoh's fate in the Bible. (I am talking about the Pharaoh of the Exodus). Some scholars insist that the narratives in the Book of Exodus imply Pharaoh's survival. Their argument is based on Hebrew linguistics.

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BQA/k/102/Did-Pharaoh-of-Exodus-Drown-in-Red-Sea-Exodus-1428.htm

Some others, however, bring their arguments to substantiate the claim that according to the Bible, the Pharaoh of the Exodus died along with his army in the Red Sea.

http://www.eternalgod.org/qapdf/247

According to the Talmud, the Pharaoh of the Exodus is immortal. He was tortured by Gabriel beneath the waters for 50 days, but did not die. Instead, he became the King of Nineveh in Prophet Jonah's time!

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj303.htm

How does the Orthodox Church approach this issue? What did the Church Fathers teach about Pharaoh's death? 
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2011, 03:42:18 PM »

I voted "yes" because of the affirmation in various Katabasias sung at Orthros:
For the Elevation of the Cross: (Nassar, p.300-301) "Verily, Moses having struck horizontally with his rod, cleaving the Red Sea and causing Israel to cross on foot, then having struck it transversely bringing it together over Pharaoh and his chariots, did trace the Cross...."

For the Pharisee and Publican: (Nassar, p. 605) "When Israel walked on foot at the bottom of the sea as on dry land, and beheld Pharaoh the persecutor drowned, they shouted, Let us praise our God; for he hath triumphed."

Other katabasias confirm this as well.
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2011, 04:26:23 PM »

Well, certainly the Church would teach Pharaoh was not tortured underwater for 50 days without dying.

Now, unless the Talmud is trying to make the point (in an odd way based on your description) that the King of Nineveh was a type of Pharaoh (or, rather, Pharaoh was a type of the King?), and that evil has always survived, or something along those lines, then this is ample evidence of the vast difference in the Jews of the Old Testament and those of today (not, of course, in their ethnic heritage, though many Jews today are undoubtedly descendants of the many, many converts to Judaism during the Roman Empire's time), and how Judaism has not remained unchanged, even during the Temple period.

This post seems very incoherent to me, and so if anyone manages to understand what I was attempting to say, and put it in better words, you get a cookie.
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« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2011, 07:30:24 PM »

Wow. I didn't know that about the 50 days and whatnot.  Shocked I thought all the Egyptians who were chasing the Jews died, though.
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Theophilos78
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2011, 05:35:51 AM »

I voted "yes" because of the affirmation in various Katabasias sung at Orthros:
For the Elevation of the Cross: (Nassar, p.300-301) "Verily, Moses having struck horizontally with his rod, cleaving the Red Sea and causing Israel to cross on foot, then having struck it transversely bringing it together over Pharaoh and his chariots, did trace the Cross...."

For the Pharisee and Publican: (Nassar, p. 605) "When Israel walked on foot at the bottom of the sea as on dry land, and beheld Pharaoh the persecutor drowned, they shouted, Let us praise our God; for he hath triumphed."

Other katabasias confirm this as well.

I was not aware of these. Thanks for your contribution.
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Theophilos78
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2011, 05:43:58 AM »

Well, certainly the Church would teach Pharaoh was not tortured underwater for 50 days without dying.

Now, unless the Talmud is trying to make the point (in an odd way based on your description) that the King of Nineveh was a type of Pharaoh (or, rather, Pharaoh was a type of the King?), and that evil has always survived, or something along those lines, then this is ample evidence of the vast difference in the Jews of the Old Testament and those of today (not, of course, in their ethnic heritage, though many Jews today are undoubtedly descendants of the many, many converts to Judaism during the Roman Empire's time), and how Judaism has not remained unchanged, even during the Temple period.


The story in the Jewish Legend did not say that the King of Nineveh was a type of Pharaoh. The person recording the story did not intend to make an allegorical association between Pharaoh and the King of Nineveh. He wrote that Pharaoh was the same person as the King of Nineveh. The reason for this claim was the significance of repentance attached to Pharaoh's supposed conversion in the same legend. The Talmud says repentance is so significant that Elohim forgave even the repentant Pharaoh. The King of Nineveh repented as soon as he heard Jonah's preaching because as the Pharaoh of the Exodus, he was already familiar with God's mercy to repenting sinners.

I personally think that the assertion concerning Pharaoh's survival in the Jewish Legend may have originated from the ambiguous nature of the Biblical narrative in the Book of Exodus. There is actually no Bible verse that explicitly says the Pharaoh drowned with his army.
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Tags: Pharaoh  Exodus  Bible 
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