Author Topic: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?  (Read 2903 times)

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Offline cnel

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Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« on: June 29, 2011, 04:42:51 AM »

How is this to be interpreted? I understand the Gospel completely, but there are small quotes ( and these can never condemn you, if you do not understand them, for
God is perfect ) which do puzzle me.

a) I have not heard of any Christian having these qualities described by Christ as a sign of a 'believer" - a "Christian" in this context. For we know that believers are
not necessarily Christian, but that every Christian is a believer.

b) So, how we take this?  is this a language translation issue? As far as I understand, only the Apostles were given power to speak in tongues; but here it reads all
Christians ( the word believer being used/translated. How does this verse read in Greek?  How do you interpret it?



-----------------
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with
new tongues;
-----------------



MAR  16: 14  Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
MAR  16: 15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
MAR  16: 16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
MAR  16: 17  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with
new tongues;
MAR  16: 18  They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
MAR  16: 19  So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
MAR  16: 20  And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.




Offline jah777

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2011, 05:41:58 AM »
From the Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Book VIII, Section 1

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf07.ix.ix.i.html?scrBook=Mark&scrCh=16&scrV=17#ix.ix.i-p6.1

 JESUS CHRIST, our God and Saviour, delivered to us the great mystery of godliness, and called both Jews and Gentiles to the acknowledgment of the one and only true God His Father, as Himself somewhere says, when He was giving thanks for the salvation of those that had believed, “I have manifested Thy name to men, I have finished the work Thou gavest me;”( John xvii. 6, 4) and said concerning us to His Father, “Holy Father, although the world has not known Thee, yet have I known Thee; and these have known Thee.” (John xvii. 11, 25)   With good reason did He say to all of us together, when we were perfected concerning those gifts which were given from Him by the Spirit: “Now these signs shall follow them that have believed in my name: they shall cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall by no means hurt them: they shall lay their hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”(Mark xvi. 17, 18).   These gifts were first bestowed on us the apostles when we were about to preach the Gospel to every creature, and afterwards were of necessity afforded to those who had by our means believed; not for the advantage of those who perform them, but for the conviction of the unbelievers, that those whom the word did not persuade, the power of signs might put to shame: for signs are not for us who believe, but for the unbelievers, both for the Jews and Gentiles. For neither is it any profit to us to cast out demons, but to those who are so cleansed by the power of the Lord; as the Lord Himself somewhere instructs us, and shows, saying: “Rejoice ye, not because the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.”(Luke x. 20).   Since the former is done by His power, but this by our good disposition and diligence, yet (it is manifest) by His assistance. It is not therefore necessary that every one of the faithful should cast out demons, or raise the dead, or speak with tongues; but such a one only who is vouchsafed this gift, for some cause which may be advantage to the salvation of the unbelievers, who are often put to shame, not with the demonstration of the world, but by the power of the signs; that is, such as are worthy of salvation: for all the ungodly are not affected by wonders; and hereof God Himself is a witness, as when He says in the law: “With other tongues will I speak to this people, and with other lips, and yet will they by no means believe.”(Isa. xxviii. 11; 1 Cor. xiv. 21).  For neither did the Egyptians believe in God, when Moses had done so many signs and wonders; (Ex. vii. and iv.) nor did the multitude of the Jews believe in Christ, as they believed Moses, who yet had healed every sickness and every disease among them. (Deut. xviii. 15, etc.) Nor were the former shamed by the rod which was turned into a living serpent, nor by the hand which was made white with leprosy, nor by the river Nile turned into blood; nor the latter by the blind who recovered their sight, nor by the lame who walked, nor by the dead who were raised. (Matt. xi. 5)  The one was resisted by Jannes and Jambres, the other by Annas and Caiaphas.  (2 Tim. iii. 8 )  Thus signs do not shame all into belief, but only those of a good disposition; for whose sake also it is that God is pleased, as a wise steward of a family, to appoint miracles to be wrought, not by the power of men, but by His own will. Now we say these things, that those who have received such gifts may not exalt themselves against those who have not received them; such gifts, we mean, as are for the working of miracles. For otherwise there is no man who has believed in God through Christ, that has not received some spiritual gift: for this very thing, having been delivered from the impiety of polytheism, and having believed in God the Father through Christ, this is a gift of God. And the having cast off the veil of Judaism, and having believed that, by the good pleasure of God, His only begotten Son, who was before all ages, was in the last time born of a virgin, without the company of a man, and that He lived as a man, yet without sin, and fulfilled all that righteousness which is of the law; and that, by the permission of God, He who was God the Word endured the cross, and despised the shame; and that He died, and was buried, and rose within three days; and that after His resurrection, having continued forty days with His apostles, and completed His whole constitutions, He was taken up in their sight to His God and Father, who sent Him: he who has believed these things, not at random and irrationally, but with judgment and full assurance, has received the gift of God. So also has He who is delivered from every heresy. Let not, therefore, any one that works signs and wonders judge any one of the faithful who is not vouchsafed the same: for the gifts of God which are bestowed by Him through Christ are various; and one man receives one gift, and another another. For perhaps one has the word of wisdom, and another the word of knowledge; (1 Cor. Xii:eight)  another, discerning of spirits; another, foreknowledge of things to come; another, the word of teaching; another, long-suffering; another, continence according to the law: for even Moses, the man of God, when he wrought signs in Egypt, did not exalt himself against his equals: and when he was called a god, he did not arrogantly despise his own prophet Aaron. (Ex. vii. 1)   Nor did Joshua the son of Nun, who was the leader of the people after him, though in the war with the Jebusites he had made the sun stand still over against Gibeon, and the moon over against the valley of Ajalon, (Josh. x)  because the day was not long enough for their victory, insult over Phineas or Caleb. Nor did Samuel, who had done so many surprising things, disregard David the beloved of God: yet they were both prophets, and the one was high priest, and the other was king. And when there were only seven thousand holy men in Israel who had not bowed the knee to Baal, (1 Kings xix. 18; Rom. xi. 4)  Elijah alone among them, and his disciple Elisha, were workers of miracles. Yet neither did Elijah despise Obadiah the steward, who feared God, but wrought no signs; nor did Elisha despise his own disciple when he trembled at the enemies. (2 Kings vi)   Moreover, neither did the wise Daniel who was twice delivered from the mouths of the lions, nor the three children who were delivered from the furnace of fire, (Dan vi. 16, iii)  despise the rest of their fellow-Israelites: for they knew that they had not escaped these terrible miseries by their own might; but by the power of God did they both work miracles, and were delivered from miseries. Wherefore let none of you exalt himself against his brother, though he be a prophet, or though he be a worker of miracles: for if it happens that there be no longer an unbeliever, all the power of signs will thenceforwards be superfluous. For to be pious is from any one’s good disposition; but to work wonders is from the power of Him that works them by us: the first of which respects ourselves; but the second respects God that works them, for the reasons which we have already mentioned. Wherefore neither let a king despise his officers that are under him, nor the rulers those who are subject. For where there are none to be ruled over, rulers are superfluous; and where there are no officers, the kingdom will not stand. Moreover, let not a bishop be exalted against his deacons and presbyters, nor the presbyters against the people: for the subsistence of the congregation depends on each other. For the bishops and the presbyters are the priests with relation to the people; and the laity are the laity with relation to the clergy. And to be a Christian is in our own power; but to be an apostle, or a bishop, or in any other such office, is not in our own power, but at the disposal of God, who bestows the gifts. And thus much concerning those who are vouchsafed gifts and dignities.

Offline biro

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2011, 08:47:04 AM »
Speaking with new tongues doesn't necessarily mean that they will spontaneously invent a language which no one has ever heard before. The Apostles traveled to many parts of the world in order to preach, and they would have encountered various languages on their way. Hindi, Arabic, Farsi, Greek, Latin, Coptic, Amharic, etc. It is a gift from God to be able to speak or learn many languages. What the Apostles achieved is, indeed, something that gives glory to God.
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2011, 11:32:36 AM »

I understand the Gospel completely,



Yikes. :o
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Offline sainthieu

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Offline cnel

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2011, 02:01:50 PM »
Speaking with new tongues doesn't necessarily mean that they will spontaneously invent a language which no one has ever heard before. The Apostles traveled to many parts of the world in order to preach, and they would have encountered various languages on their way. Hindi, Arabic, Farsi, Greek, Latin, Coptic, Amharic, etc. It is a gift from God to be able to speak or learn many languages. What the Apostles achieved is, indeed, something that gives glory to God.

Speaking in tongues means to speak other langiages  - all  - without to have learned them.

I am investigating certain quotes for correct translation, that's all.

So far my question has not been answered satisfactory.  There is reference of all the things mentioned that Christians can do, but never in history have I read of the ' speaking in tongues '.  And I reask my self if this was a mis-quote, perhaps added to the string.  Cast out demons, heal the ill, drink poison and live, no problem, they have been done.





Offline cnel

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2011, 02:06:07 PM »

I understand the Gospel completely,



Yikes. :o


And what makes you yikes so?   Is your brain an 'raisin-size'  ??? 

The gospel is VERY simple: 12 commandments and a doctrine to follow.  Simple.
The things we don't understand, we do not need to understand to be saved.   What if the question I asked is never answered by anyone.  Would I be damned because I do not understand it?   No: for I completely, wholly, fully understand the Gospel that saves to Everlasting live.




Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2011, 03:11:32 PM »

And what makes you yikes so?   Is your brain an 'raisin-size'  ??? 

Not that I know of. My brain appears to be more or less normal sized.
However I am striving (with limited success, I fear) for an attitude of prayerful humility when approaching the understanding/interpretation of the Holy Scripture.

Perhaps a similar approach would work for you as well?
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

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Offline joasia

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2011, 11:54:44 PM »
Speaking with new tongues doesn't necessarily mean that they will spontaneously invent a language which no one has ever heard before. The Apostles traveled to many parts of the world in order to preach, and they would have encountered various languages on their way. Hindi, Arabic, Farsi, Greek, Latin, Coptic, Amharic, etc. It is a gift from God to be able to speak or learn many languages. What the Apostles achieved is, indeed, something that gives glory to God.

Speaking in tongues means to speak other langiages  - all  - without to have learned them.

I am investigating certain quotes for correct translation, that's all.

So far my question has not been answered satisfactory.  There is reference of all the things mentioned that Christians can do, but never in history have I read of the ' speaking in tongues '.  And I reask my self if this was a mis-quote, perhaps added to the string.  Cast out demons, heal the ill, drink poison and live, no problem, they have been done.

So, what you are asking is if there has been any examples of an Orthodox saint that has spoken another language that he/she didn't speak during his/her life?  Except the Apostles. 
Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2011, 12:26:57 AM »
Speaking with new tongues doesn't necessarily mean that they will spontaneously invent a language which no one has ever heard before. The Apostles traveled to many parts of the world in order to preach, and they would have encountered various languages on their way. Hindi, Arabic, Farsi, Greek, Latin, Coptic, Amharic, etc. It is a gift from God to be able to speak or learn many languages. What the Apostles achieved is, indeed, something that gives glory to God.

Speaking in tongues means to speak other langiages  - all  - without to have learned them.

I am investigating certain quotes for correct translation, that's all.

So far my question has not been answered satisfactory.  There is reference of all the things mentioned that Christians can do, but never in history have I read of the ' speaking in tongues '.  And I reask my self if this was a mis-quote, perhaps added to the string.  Cast out demons, heal the ill, drink poison and live, no problem, they have been done.

So, what you are asking is if there has been any examples of an Orthodox saint that has spoken another language that he/she didn't speak during his/her life?  Except the Apostles. 
Though he wasn't a canonized saint, AFAIK, Pope St. Gregory the Great records such a case in the Dialogues (I think).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2011, 07:29:45 AM »
Speaking with new tongues doesn't necessarily mean that they will spontaneously invent a language which no one has ever heard before. The Apostles traveled to many parts of the world in order to preach, and they would have encountered various languages on their way. Hindi, Arabic, Farsi, Greek, Latin, Coptic, Amharic, etc. It is a gift from God to be able to speak or learn many languages. What the Apostles achieved is, indeed, something that gives glory to God.

Speaking in tongues means to speak other langiages  - all  - without to have learned them.

I am investigating certain quotes for correct translation, that's all.

So far my question has not been answered satisfactory.  There is reference of all the things mentioned that Christians can do, but never in history have I read of the ' speaking in tongues '.  And I reask my self if this was a mis-quote, perhaps added to the string.  Cast out demons, heal the ill, drink poison and live, no problem, they have been done.

So, what you are asking is if there has been any examples of an Orthodox saint that has spoken another language that he/she didn't speak during his/her life?  Except the Apostles. 
Though he wasn't a canonized saint, AFAIK, Pope St. Gregory the Great records such a case in the Dialogues (I think).
Quote
Likewise in that mortality which, three years since, lamentably afflicted this town, there was in the Monastery of the city of Portus,35 a young monk called Mellitus, a man of wonderful simplicity and humility, whose last day being come, he fell desperately sick or the common |208 disease: which when venerable Felix, Bishop of the same place, understood (by whose relation myself have learned this story), very careful he was to visit him, and with sweet words to comfort him against death: adding, notwithstanding, that by God's grace he might live long in this world. To whom the sick man answered that his time was at hand, saying that there came unto him a young man with letters, willing him to open and read them: which when he had done, he said that he found both his own name, and all the rest of them which, the Easter before, had been baptized by that Bishop, written in letters of gold: and first of all he said that he found his own name, and afterward the rest of them that were christened at that time: by which he made no doubt but that both himself and the rest should shortly depart this life, and so it fell out, for he died that very day: and after him followed all those which had before been baptized, so that, within the space of a few days, no one of them was left alive. Of whom no question can be made, but that the reason why the foresaid servant of God saw them written in gold, was because their names were written in heaven in the everlasting sight of God. And as these men, by divine revelation, knew and foretold such things as were to come: so sometimes souls, before their departure, not in a dream but waking, may have some taste of heavenly mysteries. For you were well acquainted with Ammonius, a monk of my Monastery, who whiles he lived in a secular weed and was married to the daughter of Valerianus, a lawyer in this city, continually and with all diligence he followed his business: by reason whereof he knew whatsoever was done in his father-in-law's house. This man told me, how, in that great mortality which happened in this city, in the time of that noble man Narses,36 there was a boy in the house of the foresaid Valerianus, called Armentarius, who was very simple and passing humble: when, |209 therefore, that mortal disease entered that lawyer's house, the foresaid boy fell sick thereof, and was brought to the point of death: who suddenly falling into a trance, and afterward coming to himself again, caused his master to be sent for, to whom he told that he had been in heaven, and did know who they were that should die out of his house. "Such and such," quoth he, "shall die, but as for yourself, fear nothing, for at this time die you shall not. And that you may be assured that I have verily been in heaven, behold I have there received the gift to speak with all tongues: you know well enough that ignorant I am of the Greek tongue, and yet will I speak Greek, that you may see whether it be true that I say or no." Then his master spake Greek, and he so answered him in that tongue, that all which were present did much marvel. In the same house there was a Bulgar, servant to the foresaid Narsus, who in all haste, being brought to the sick person, spake unto him in the Bulgarian tongue; and the boy that was born and brought up in Italy, answered him so in that barbarous language, as though he had been born and bred in that country. All that heard him thus talking wondered much, and by experience of two tongues which they knew very well that before he knew not, they made no doubt of the rest, though they could make no trial thereof. After this he lived two days, and upon the third, by what secret judgment of God none can tell, he tare and rent with his teeth his own hands and arms, and so departed this life. When he was dead, all those whom before he mentioned did quickly follow after; and besides them, none in that house died at that time.

PETER. A very terrible thing it is, that he which merited so great a grace, should be punished with so pitiful a death.

GREGORY. Who is able to enter into the secret judgments of God? Wherefore those things which in divine |210 examination we cannot comprehend, we ought rather to fear than curiously to discuss.
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/gregory_04_dialogues_book4.htm#C26
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline JimCBrooklyn

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2011, 12:06:56 PM »
I assume this question arose from the daily readings. My wife and I also read this together a few days ago, and though I had read it many times, the questions hadn't really struck me. The tongues were just a minor piece of my questions. It was really some of the other phrases in there, i.e.:
MAR  16: 16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
MAR  16: 17  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with
new tongues;
MAR  16: 18  They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


How are we to take this, as we are obviously not all out doing these things?
PS-I'm finally done being in transit, howdy to all on the board!
In Christ,
Jim
It is not the task of Christianity to provide easy answers to every question, but to make us progressively aware of a mystery. God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder.
-Metropolitan Kallistos Ware

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2011, 12:36:32 PM »

How is this to be interpreted? I understand the Gospel completely, but there are small quotes ( and these can never condemn you, if you do not understand them, for
God is perfect ) which do puzzle me.

a) I have not heard of any Christian having these qualities described by Christ as a sign of a 'believer" - a "Christian" in this context. For we know that believers are
not necessarily Christian, but that every Christian is a believer.

b) So, how we take this?  is this a language translation issue? As far as I understand, only the Apostles were given power to speak in tongues; but here it reads all
Christians ( the word believer being used/translated. How does this verse read in Greek?  How do you interpret it?



-----------------
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with
new tongues;
-----------------



MAR  16: 14  Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
MAR  16: 15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
MAR  16: 16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
MAR  16: 17  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with
new tongues;
MAR  16: 18  They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
MAR  16: 19  So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
MAR  16: 20  And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.





It means that Christians as a collective group - as Community or Church - will have these signs among them, not that each individual Christian will have any of these. It's pretty much like saying that School X formed presidents, congressmen, scientists and Nobel winners. It means that such people existed and came from that school, not that each student was a political or scientific genius.

Indeed, all the miracles mentioned eventually happened among Christians. But it doesn't mean that every Christian will have a life full of these largely visible miracles. Most of us will have just the daily miracles: prayers answered, minor healings, comfort in hours of pain and, of course, the general miracles such as Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, Marriage, Orders and the other Mysteries.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 12:39:33 PM by Fabio Leite »
Many Energies, 3 Persons, 2 Natures, 1 God, 1 Church, 1 Baptism, and 1 Cup. The Son begotten only from the Father, the Spirit proceeding only from the Father, Each glorifying the Other. The Son sends the Spirit, the Spirit Reveals the Son, the Father is seen in the Son. The Spirit spoke through the Prophets and Fathers and does so even today.

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2011, 01:02:55 PM »
I assume this question arose from the daily readings. My wife and I also read this together a few days ago, and though I had read it many times, the questions hadn't really struck me. The tongues were just a minor piece of my questions. It was really some of the other phrases in there, i.e.:
MAR  16: 16  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
MAR  16: 17  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with
new tongues;
MAR  16: 18  They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


How are we to take this, as we are obviously not all out doing these things?
PS-I'm finally done being in transit, howdy to all on the board!
In Christ,
Jim

I once did 30 shots shots vodka and didn't die. I definitely was speaking in tongues afterward, laid my hand on more than a few people I thought were acting demonically that night, to find them recovered the next day, if not so much physically then without demons, and dragged my buddy who attempted the same act with less success home and he recovered nicely.

Offline cnel

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2011, 06:12:43 PM »
Okay, it seems this quote has been quoted/translated in this confusing manner, the writer not dictating the message in the required manner: so that it is understood to be the Apostles Christ was talking about.  No doubt Christians of today can pickup a snake ( especially when they need to ) and cast out devils: but they do not speak in tongues ( foreign languages ) without to have learned them.  

The Apostles were given power to speak all tongues of the lands they travelled to, so they could preach the Gospel.


It is also arguable that the quote refers to all christians, but then the tongues part only for the Apostles.  The quote was then made in such a manner that it is convusing.  But this cannot cost any of us our everlasting live, for this is not something we have to do.



-----------------
And these signs shall follow them ( The Apostles ) that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
-----------------





« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 06:18:13 PM by cnel »

Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2011, 06:56:54 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

When Apostle Paul fell of that horse, he heard a voice which he alone heard even though his companions saw the same blinding and bewildering Light.  That being said, I have always assumed the the "tongues" mentioned in this passage and others is in regards to the languages of the inner ear and the heart, rather than those tongues of the nations.  Of course, the Church has existed across multiple cultures and languages and eras, as it is truly Universal, so we could also easily assume that the ability to transmit and translate the Church across these differing linguistic communities as an action of the Holy Spirit.  So we can take these verses both literal and symbolic, in the literal sense that the Church in the Spirit has guided many workers to be able to translate and communicate in different languages in God's Grace, and also symbolic in the sense that the Church conveys that spiritual communication in the inner-ear of the hearts of the people in the Church.

When I study foreign languages, I take this into consideration and say a personal prayer something like, "Lord, teach me these languages  in your Grace for the greater good as you taught Daniel as an administrator in Babylon."

stay blessed,
habte selassie
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2011, 10:59:52 PM »
Fr. Thomas Hopko just had a podcast on this recently. Some interesting comments per usual:

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko/the_gift_the_gifts_and_glossolalia

Offline Mivac

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2011, 09:14:57 AM »
I just recently read the book In Peace Let Us Pray to the Lord by Fr. Alexis, Monastery of Karakallou, Mount Athos, Greece.  You might be interested in reading the book also.

http://www.orthodoxbookstore.org/inpeaceletuspraytothelordanorthodoxinterpretationofthegiftsofthespirit.aspx

Offline cnel

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2012, 04:52:32 AM »
Nobody seems to have answered the question satisfactory/correctly.   The gift of speaking in tongues was granted to the Apostles for their believe in all that they had
experienced to-date.  Jesus had done enough: now it was their turn to give.

Does the below account reveal to us that all christians shall be granted this same gift: speaking tongues etc.  No: it does not; only the Apostles were granted this gift.

The way in which the account was written/translated in English sounds like many people spoke in tongues, but no: the Apostles spoke in tongues to many people!


READ IT HERE:

ACT  2: 1  And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
ACT  2: 2  And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
ACT  2: 3  And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
ACT  2: 4  And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
ACT  2: 5  And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
ACT  2: 6  Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
ACT  2: 7  And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
ACT  2: 8  And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
ACT  2: 9  Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
ACT  2: 10  Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
ACT  2: 11  Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
ACT  2: 12  And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
ACT  2: 13  Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
ACT  2: 14  But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
ACT  2: 15  For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Mark 1-14 to 20. How do you explain this?
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2012, 05:02:52 AM »
You are an odd fellow, my friend.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.