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Author Topic: I think its best I leave for a time  (Read 985 times) Average Rating: 0
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Xenia1918
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« on: June 26, 2011, 03:19:38 PM »

I find it sad, since I only joined this forum yesterday...but I think its best until I became more adept at understanding many of the inner issues within Eastern Christianity.

I am someone who was raised Jewish, became a Traditional RC when I was 18, and left them, still looking for Truth. I am investigating the Orthodox Church and I'm not very well versed in the terminology, etc I also spent several years with the Eastern Rite (Byzantine) Catholics after the Tridentine Mass was no longer available in my area.

I used the "U" word when referring to Byzantine Catholics, not knowing it was considered offensive. A longtime Orthodox friend consistently uses it, so naturally I saw no harm in it. I received a warning here from one of the mods for its use, even though I did so in innocence.

Maybe its best if I leave, at least until I understand terminologies better.
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2011, 03:26:35 PM »

Don't leave!  This is a great place to learn!

The warning, was just that, a "warning".  You aren't in trouble or anything!

Make sure you read the board rules, do's and donts.

Its a good crowd and you'll enjoy it here!

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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2011, 03:29:23 PM »

Don't be such a baby!!! lolOl i'm in the same boat as you i don't know hardly anything and LOOK i have a GREEN CARD against me even!!!
At least your warning was a preliminary one its not STUCK to you like glue for two weeks!!! haha...  Wink

Stick around.... you won't learn much unless your in it and asking questions. You'll pick up the words as you go along so chill.

You had some good posts going so stick around and get to know ppl, they're ok here, friendly and straight.
well apart from my friend whos just joined, hes just friendly HAha...

Seriously, sleep on it you wont feel so bad. Everyone makes mistakes  Grin
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2011, 03:33:43 PM »

You'll be fine.  Stick around.
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« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2011, 03:34:31 PM »

Even moderators get warnings.
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Xenia1918
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« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2011, 03:41:53 PM »

My Russian Orthodox friend, Masha, uses the U word all the time, so I had no reason to think there was anything wrong with it. She also uses "monophysite" to refer to certain other churches, and I just noticed on the forum that that term is a no-no too. I just don't want to have to worry about opening my mouth again and inserting both feet by innocently using the "wrong" terms! (I don't understand why they're "wrong" either, so it seems I do need to read more.) When I was still RC and attending the Byzantine Catholic church, many of THEM even used the "U" term to refer to themselves, so you can understand my current confusion.
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« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2011, 04:10:02 PM »

My Russian Orthodox friend, Masha, uses the U word all the time, so I had no reason to think there was anything wrong with it. She also uses "monophysite" to refer to certain other churches, and I just noticed on the forum that that term is a no-no too. I just don't want to have to worry about opening my mouth again and inserting both feet by innocently using the "wrong" terms! (I don't understand why they're "wrong" either, so it seems I do need to read more.) When I was still RC and attending the Byzantine Catholic church, many of THEM even used the "U" term to refer to themselves, so you can understand my current confusion.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13455.0.html this might be helpful  Smiley

With regards to the "U" word or the "M" word it's simply the fact that we have a lot of Oriental Orthodox members and quite a few Byzantine Catholic posters, some of whom are offended by the words (more so with the "m" word, as even the Oriental Orthodox believe monophytism as defined to be a heresy), because the words have often been used as pejoratives. It's much the same as a certain "P" referring to Roman Catholics (which you should also avoid).
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« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2011, 04:34:59 PM »

My Russian Orthodox friend, Masha, uses the U word all the time, so I had no reason to think there was anything wrong with it. She also uses "monophysite" to refer to certain other churches, and I just noticed on the forum that that term is a no-no too. I just don't want to have to worry about opening my mouth again and inserting both feet by innocently using the "wrong" terms! (I don't understand why they're "wrong" either, so it seems I do need to read more.) When I was still RC and attending the Byzantine Catholic church, many of THEM even used the "U" term to refer to themselves, so you can understand my current confusion.
Mind you, our most prominent Roman Catholic poster's username is "Papist," a term which many find offensive. What is and isn't pejorative is really in the eye of the beholder. In general, if you know two terms and one of them seems more neutral than the other, use that one. It's a similar situation with addressing our posters who are priests. I sincerely doubt most of them care too much if you use their title (Fr. Ambrose has specifically gone on record saying he doesn't) but it's just a matter of extra respect.
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2011, 04:38:27 PM »

I have also noticed that Eastern priests are referred to by their first names, with "Fr" attached. In the West, at least before V2, the custom is to refer to a priest by his title and last name (one thing that turned me off to the RCC since V2 was the "Father Joe" syndrome). I don't seem to mind it in the East, probably because I realize it has always been the custom of the East to do that.

BTW, is it a sign of disrespect in the East to refer to a priest by his title and last name?
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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 04:58:19 PM »

I have also noticed that Eastern priests are referred to by their first names, with "Fr" attached. In the West, at least before V2, the custom is to refer to a priest by his title and last name (one thing that turned me off to the RCC since V2 was the "Father Joe" syndrome). I don't seem to mind it in the East, probably because I realize it has always been the custom of the East to do that.

BTW, is it a sign of disrespect in the East to refer to a priest by his title and last name?

This isn't something I read about, it's just my opinion, but I believe that the reason we use the first name is because they were baptised in that name.  It's a Christian name, but the last name is just something passed down from the generations.  This is also important for converts who had non-Christian names, but took the name of one of our wonderful saints.  Also,if you know the priest only by his last name, how will you know it's his Name's Day?  Please stay.  You will learn alot.  I wish I had this Forum when I was converting.  There's so much info.  And, you have just asked a question that is meaningful to understand.  I'd like to hear what the priests say about this. 
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« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 05:29:13 PM »

I think you're doing fine, Xenia. It'll be alright.  Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2011, 05:47:33 PM »

Hey Xenia,

Please stay. We all make mistakes.

Know that I am praying for you.

Maria
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« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2011, 08:39:43 PM »

Aww, don't leave.  Smiley We all do make mistakes. Don't let just one thing make you stop. It'll get better.
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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2011, 08:53:49 PM »

My Russian Orthodox friend, Masha, uses the U word all the time, so I had no reason to think there was anything wrong with it. She also uses "monophysite" to refer to certain other churches, and I just noticed on the forum that that term is a no-no too. I just don't want to have to worry about opening my mouth again and inserting both feet by innocently using the "wrong" terms! (I don't understand why they're "wrong" either, so it seems I do need to read more.) When I was still RC and attending the Byzantine Catholic church, many of THEM even used the "U" term to refer to themselves, so you can understand my current confusion.

I think the word becomes derrogatory based upon the context of which it is being used.
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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2011, 09:31:01 PM »

This forum is not the Church, and it has rules which are not necessarily recognised as social mores outside of it. I personally see no problem in using the word "Uniate", and indeed The RC and EO Chruches have officially used the term themselves in the Balamand Statement.
You are not ignorant of Orthodoxy, you simply haven't yet waded through the myriad of rules, conventions, etc which this forum insists for it's posters!
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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 10:00:06 PM »

OK, I'll stick around. But I do think I need to hurry up on more reading so I don't embarass myself like that again! So then, because my RO friend uses the "U" word all the time, does that mean she is more conservative and anti-ecumenical? I know she's not with ROCOR because she does not agree with the use of the Old Calendar. Maybe she's just an overzealous convert? But when I was with the Byzantine Catholics, some of them used the word to describe themselves too, so you can see why I'm confused!
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« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 10:06:55 PM »

My Russian Orthodox friend, Masha, uses the U word all the time, so I had no reason to think there was anything wrong with it. She also uses "monophysite" to refer to certain other churches, and I just noticed on the forum that that term is a no-no too. I just don't want to have to worry about opening my mouth again and inserting both feet by innocently using the "wrong" terms! (I don't understand why they're "wrong" either, so it seems I do need to read more.) When I was still RC and attending the Byzantine Catholic church, many of THEM even used the "U" term to refer to themselves, so you can understand my current confusion.

I think the word becomes derrogatory based upon the context of which it is being used.

I have found that this is in some ways a forum based on ecumenism because Byzantine Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy and Old Calendarism seem to be treated as valid Orthodox, no matter what your Church or bishop says.  So just as when a Church signs up to the WCC it has to accept some basic things so also on this Forum people have to accept some basic rules.   This keeps the peace and assists to provides a unique venue where all three groups may interact.  The Forum is owned by an Old Calendarist priest and includes both Byzantine Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox among its Moderators.

I too struggled with restrictions on the use of some words here but I've accepted it now and just work around it as most of us do.  The verboten words may not be used by Forum members but if they occur in something being quoted that is OK.

So, just remember that some words are non-U!

I've made the mistake of using the U word for Eastern Catholics in earlier days.

And I've found that I can use Miaphysite for non-Chalcedonians but I cannot use Monophysite.
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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 10:21:53 PM »

So then, because my RO friend uses the "U" word all the time, does that mean she is more conservative and anti-ecumenical?
No, it simply means she uses the term "Uniate" all the time.
I think its a mistake to try and "get a handle" on people simply by the terms they use. I use the term Uniate too, but I don't think of myself as "conservative" or "anti-ecumenical". I think I am Traditional in the sense that I value Holy Apostolic Tradition and defend it, and part of that means that I hold that true Ecumenism requires doctrinal agreement (not simply external similarity), and I certainly do not believe that Uniatism is a way towards this, and according to the Balamand Statement, neither do the RC Church nor the EO Church think that Uniatism is way towards true unity.
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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2011, 11:00:19 PM »

Xenia, I think they have made the guidelines what they are on this site to help clarify certain things and to prevent discussions from getting bogged down. Although I may not consider a term to have a particular meaning, others may. So they developed ways of avoiding that. Don't let yourself get caught up in the smaller things. This really is an interesting place to read and post, and while I've gotten frustrated sometimes too, I think I'd get bored if I weren't here. It's fun to have people to talk to.   Smiley
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2011, 11:26:00 PM »

Xenia, I think they have made the guidelines what they are on this site to help clarify certain things and to prevent discussions from getting bogged down. Although I may not consider a term to have a particular meaning, others may. So they developed ways of avoiding that. Don't let yourself get caught up in the smaller things. This really is an interesting place to read and post, and while I've gotten frustrated sometimes too, I think I'd get bored if I weren't here. It's fun to have people to talk to.   Smiley

And trying to keep up with all the responses is time-consuming.  But, it beats watching mindless t.v. shows.
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2011, 11:33:59 PM »

I think I mentioned it, but I spent a few years with the Byzantine Catholics, on my way to where I am now (the Tridentine Mass in the 1970s had disbanded because the priest died, and the Byzantine Catholics, I had been told , were a suitable alternative as opposed to the novus ordo). So, I did spend some time with them, and truly, they were very loving, very Christian people. When I gave birth to my third child and we both almost died (long story), some of the ppl from their church came to our home, cooked for us, took care of anything we needed, and they made things a lot easier for my husband and our other children during my recuperation. So I have no dislike for them at all...but I do feel very sorry for them...in many ways, their position is like that of the "messianic Jews" within Protestantism....not accepted by the group they resemble, and distrusted by the group they actually belong to..having a split identity, not truly belonging anywhere. Supposed to serve as a bridge between two historically warring religious groups in addition to that.
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2011, 11:47:41 PM »

I think I mentioned it, but I spent a few years with the Byzantine Catholics, on my way to where I am now (the Tridentine Mass in the 1970s had disbanded because the priest died, and the Byzantine Catholics, I had been told , were a suitable alternative as opposed to the novus ordo). So, I did spend some time with them, and truly, they were very loving, very Christian people. When I gave birth to my third child and we both almost died (long story), some of the ppl from their church came to our home, cooked for us, took care of anything we needed, and they made things a lot easier for my husband and our other children during my recuperation. So I have no dislike for them at all...but I do feel very sorry for them...in many ways, their position is like that of the "messianic Jews" within Protestantism....not accepted by the group they resemble, and distrusted by the group they actually belong to..having a split identity, not truly belonging anywhere. Supposed to serve as a bridge between two historically warring religious groups in addition to that.

Sounds similar to the Samaritans. Not here or there.  But, eventually they received the Word of God.  Some are in a state limbo, but God knows their hearts..He is there for them.  Bascially, the message is that Christ calls everyone, but they need to choose Him of their own free will that God gave them.  The best thing that you can do, is pray for them.  No amount of preaching will influence them.  Everyone has to come to God in their own time. 
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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2011, 12:17:31 AM »

Xenia,

I am very happy that you have decided to stay here for the time being.

My prayers.

Maria
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