Author Topic: Joining the Orthodox Church  (Read 1775 times)

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Offline Xenia1918

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Joining the Orthodox Church
« on: June 25, 2011, 10:11:24 PM »
When a prospective convert to Orthodoxy was previously baptized Roman Catholic, is this baptism recognized by Orthodoxy, even if it was done by pouring and not immersion? If so, how does one enter the Orthodox Church, chrismation only?

Thanks  in advance!
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Offline William

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2011, 10:15:08 PM »
It varies according to jurisdiction. OCA generally just chrismates.

Although it should be noted that this is not a recognition of the validity of sacraments outside the Church. The chrismation fills the Baptism which was previously invalid with sacramental grace. It's an act of economy.
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Offline TheodoraElizabeth3

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2011, 10:34:55 PM »
When a prospective convert to Orthodoxy was previously baptized Roman Catholic, is this baptism recognized by Orthodoxy, even if it was done by pouring and not immersion? If so, how does one enter the Orthodox Church, chrismation only?

Thanks  in advance!

Talk to your priest. I know a few in the OCA who were RC and were received by profession of faith only. Mostly by christmation. It's the bishop's decision. Period.

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2011, 10:53:21 PM »
As far as I'm aware, in most cases a former Roman Catholic can be received by chrismation. If you can, you may want to bring your priest a copy of your baptismal certificate. I have seen a couple of people chrismated, and it's beautiful. I hope it goes well for you.  :)
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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2011, 10:56:11 PM »
A lifelong RC, I was received by chrismation a year and a half ago.  I did, however, have to provide my priest with a baptismal certificate.  This was easily obtained by calling the parish office of the church of my youth.  No questions were asked as to why I needed one.
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Offline Thankful

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2011, 01:24:03 AM »
When a prospective convert to Orthodoxy was previously baptized Roman Catholic, is this baptism recognized by Orthodoxy, even if it was done by pouring and not immersion? If so, how does one enter the Orthodox Church, chrismation only?

Thanks  in advance!

Our parish and diocese typically baptizes converts from Roman Catholicism. I see that you are in an OCA parish, which ours is not, so I can't speak to your specific situation. I'm just answering the question you asked in your post. 

Offline Maria

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2011, 01:29:29 AM »
When a prospective convert to Orthodoxy was previously baptized Roman Catholic, is this baptism recognized by Orthodoxy, even if it was done by pouring and not immersion? If so, how does one enter the Orthodox Church, chrismation only?

Thanks  in advance!

Our parish and diocese typically baptizes converts from Roman Catholicism. I see that you are in an OCA parish, which ours is not, so I can't speak to your specific situation. I'm just answering the question you asked in your post.  

The Diocese of the West, Antiochian parishes and diocese typically chrismates converts from Roman Catholicism unless they were baptized "in the name of the Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier." or some other weird formula.

Bishop BENJAMIN of the OCA normally recommends chrismation too for Roman Catholics.

In the Greek Orthodox Church (Western diocese), that bishop normally recommends chrismation for Roman Catholic converts.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 01:32:45 AM by Maria »
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Offline Xenia1918

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2011, 09:47:42 AM »
Thanks to everyone who replied! I'm currently attending Divine Liturgy in an OCA church, but truthfully, my heart is with ROCOR (I ended up at the OCA church because its close to my home and I have transportation issues....a bad knee and have to take public transportation). I figured I'd attend Divine Liturgy close to home to make it easier on myself at first, then "branch out" as I began to feel more comfortable in Orthodoxy. Thing is, I am beginning to feel at home in the OCA church, but I'm not going to limit myself either.

How would ROCOR handle someone who was baptized RC? I have my baptismal certificate from years ago; fortunately I was catechised and baptised by a very traditional RC priest of that time, who hated the changes of the church but accepted them out of "obedience", as he had said. So you can be sure he baptized me in the Name of the Trinity. :)
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Offline IXOYE

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2011, 01:10:22 PM »
Thanks to everyone who replied! I'm currently attending Divine Liturgy in an OCA church, but truthfully, my heart is with ROCOR (I ended up at the OCA church because its close to my home and I have transportation issues....a bad knee and have to take public transportation). I figured I'd attend Divine Liturgy close to home to make it easier on myself at first, then "branch out" as I began to feel more comfortable in Orthodoxy. Thing is, I am beginning to feel at home in the OCA church, but I'm not going to limit myself either.

How would ROCOR handle someone who was baptized RC? I have my baptismal certificate from years ago; fortunately I was catechised and baptised by a very traditional RC priest of that time, who hated the changes of the church but accepted them out of "obedience", as he had said. So you can be sure he baptized me in the Name of the Trinity. :)


Roman Catholics are often received in R.O.C.O.R. by baptism.

Offline TheodoraElizabeth3

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 02:17:55 PM »
Thanks to everyone who replied! I'm currently attending Divine Liturgy in an OCA church, but truthfully, my heart is with ROCOR (I ended up at the OCA church because its close to my home and I have transportation issues....a bad knee and have to take public transportation). I figured I'd attend Divine Liturgy close to home to make it easier on myself at first, then "branch out" as I began to feel more comfortable in Orthodoxy. Thing is, I am beginning to feel at home in the OCA church, but I'm not going to limit myself either.

How would ROCOR handle someone who was baptized RC? I have my baptismal certificate from years ago; fortunately I was catechised and baptised by a very traditional RC priest of that time, who hated the changes of the church but accepted them out of "obedience", as he had said. So you can be sure he baptized me in the Name of the Trinity. :)


At this point, I think the Catholic Church and maybe the really conservative Lutherans (Missouri Synod/Wisconsin Synod) are the only ones we can count on being baptized in the name of the Trinity - for baptisms done currently. I don't know about Evangelical Protestants, for example. And the Episcopalians in the US are really questionable - and have been for what, maybe the past 20-25 years? But someone baptized in the Episcopal Church in the 50s, as a friend of mine was, was unquestionably baptized in the name of the Trinity. Her baptismal certificate even specifies, "baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

I don't think, at least for the foreseeable future a baptism in the Catholic Church would be *not* done in the Name of the Trinity. If a Catholic priest *did* do a baptism in the name of "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier," for example, I suspect he wouldn't get away with it for long.

And about the transportation thing - some may disagree with me, but I'd suggest that it's better to go to a parish closer to you that you'll go to more often, than a church further away that you'll hardly get to/have severe difficulty getting to.

Offline That person

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 04:49:17 PM »
I've seen a fair share of evangelical Baptisms, and all of them have been Trinitarian. Of course, we're a notoriously diverse and disorganized bunch, so that might not be totally representational, but I'd imagine that most people would follow that procedure.
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Offline joasia

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2011, 05:26:45 PM »
I will probably be confronted by others about my following comment, but it comes from my heart.  I was RC (by pouring) and was baptised by triple immersion in the GOC.  When Christ said to baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, He was talking about the baptism that St. John the Baptist performed and to do it three times.  Even Jesus Christ was baptised, once, as He is God.  He was the example.  That's what convinced me.  Baptism is for purification of flesh and spirit and therefore the whole body needs to be immersed with not one hair exposed.  Pouring is an exception, not the rule. 
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Offline Xenia1918

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2011, 06:07:56 PM »
I will probably be confronted by others about my following comment, but it comes from my heart.  I was RC (by pouring) and was baptised by triple immersion in the GOC.  When Christ said to baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, He was talking about the baptism that St. John the Baptist performed and to do it three times.  Even Jesus Christ was baptised, once, as He is God.  He was the example.  That's what convinced me.  Baptism is for purification of flesh and spirit and therefore the whole body needs to be immersed with not one hair exposed.  Pouring is an exception, not the rule. 

The (very old and very traditional) RC priest who baptized me did it three times: each time he said, "Father", "Son" and "Holy Ghost", he poured water over my forehead. It was not immersion, but he did do it three times. I always assumed that was the correct way for the RC to do it?

The funny thing is, a few months later when I discovered the Traditionalist RC movement in existence at the time (ironically, it was called the ORCM: Orthodox Roman Catholic Movement, headed by the late Fr Francis E Fenton), they insisted on baptizing me again, since they didn't feel they could trust anything coming out of the novus ordo church. And yet they baptized me the same way.
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Offline joasia

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2011, 06:53:15 PM »
I will probably be confronted by others about my following comment, but it comes from my heart.  I was RC (by pouring) and was baptised by triple immersion in the GOC.  When Christ said to baptise in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, He was talking about the baptism that St. John the Baptist performed and to do it three times.  Even Jesus Christ was baptised, once, as He is God.  He was the example.  That's what convinced me.  Baptism is for purification of flesh and spirit and therefore the whole body needs to be immersed with not one hair exposed.  Pouring is an exception, not the rule. 

The (very old and very traditional) RC priest who baptized me did it three times: each time he said, "Father", "Son" and "Holy Ghost", he poured water over my forehead. It was not immersion, but he did do it three times. I always assumed that was the correct way for the RC to do it?

The funny thing is, a few months later when I discovered the Traditionalist RC movement in existence at the time (ironically, it was called the ORCM: Orthodox Roman Catholic Movement, headed by the late Fr Francis E Fenton), they insisted on baptizing me again, since they didn't feel they could trust anything coming out of the novus ordo church. And yet they baptized me the same way.

This is my personal opinion, but from your initial introduction, it seems to me that God is guiding you with messages that will mean something to you, which made you turn to Christ again.  Take in all the information you get here, pray to God for guidance, and you will see His messages clearly.  You made decisions based on what you felt when He presented these thoughts to you.  When we over-analyze things, we get confused.  But, God doesn't confuse, He clarifies.  And when it's from Him, we know exactly what we must do.  That's how I came to Orthodoxy.  I had my own circumstances of messages that just entered the depth of my soul.  It was clear and definite.  That's why Christ's example of baptism was something very important to me.
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The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2011, 09:00:03 PM »
Would this be the bottom line for reception of Catholics in the States...?

1.  If you go to either the Serbian Church or the Russian Church Abroad, you'll almost certainly be baptized.

2.  If you go to any other Church, Greek, Antiochian, etc.,  you'll almost certainly be chrismated.

Offline joasia

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 09:14:35 PM »
Would this be the bottom line for reception of Catholics in the States...?

1.  If you go to either the Serbian Church or the Russian Church Abroad, you'll almost certainly be baptized.

2.  If you go to any other Church, Greek, Antiochian, etc.,  you'll almost certainly be chrismated.

1.  Yes.
2. I only know the Greeks.  New calendar= pouring.  Old Calendar = immersion.
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The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 09:37:42 PM »
Would this be the bottom line for reception of Catholics in the States...?

1.  If you go to either the Serbian Church or the Russian Church Abroad, you'll almost certainly be baptized.

2.  If you go to any other Church, Greek, Antiochian, etc.,  you'll almost certainly be chrismated.

1.  Yes.
2. I only know the Greeks.  New calendar= pouring.  Old Calendar = immersion.

Must be a North American thing.  Down here the Greek Metropolitan Amphilochios has littered the countryside and the islands with blue and white troughs in which people are baptized.

Here's a  video example
http://www.ecp-metnz.org.nz/archived-news.htm#fb

and


« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 09:42:10 PM by Irish Hermit »

Offline Xenia1918

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 09:48:52 PM »
My husband is a Baptist, and he was baptized in his childhood church by full immersion (the Baptists have these big tanks in their churches, so that you can be be dropped backward into the water.)

Why does the Orthodox Church use big tubs rather than tanks? I'd think the Baptist way is more of a full immersion, and actually is identical to the ancient Orthodox Jewish method of the mikveh, which is used even today in Judaism for ritual purification, and interestingly, also for conversion to Judaism. They also immerse three times, though I don't know why.

I'd actually like to be baptized by immersion, I just don't know how I could do it in one of the tubs, because of my bad knee (I can't kneel...if I get down on my knees, I won't be able to get up again without a LOT of help!)
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Offline joasia

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2011, 09:50:46 PM »
That's wonderful to see.  Maybe the tradition is coming back.
Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline joasia

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2011, 10:02:56 PM »
My husband is a Baptist, and he was baptized in his childhood church by full immersion (the Baptists have these big tanks in their churches, so that you can be be dropped backward into the water.)

Why does the Orthodox Church use big tubs rather than tanks? I'd think the Baptist way is more of a full immersion, and actually is identical to the ancient Orthodox Jewish method of the mikveh, which is used even today in Judaism for ritual purification, and interestingly, also for conversion to Judaism. They also immerse three times, though I don't know why.

I'd actually like to be baptized by immersion, I just don't know how I could do it in one of the tubs, because of my bad knee (I can't kneel...if I get down on my knees, I won't be able to get up again without a LOT of help!)

I've actually seen Baptist baptisms on youtube.  It is nice to have those big fonts.  Not all Orthodox Churches provide that, but some monasteries have them.  I was baptised in a metal barrel. I don't even remember how I got back out.  But, an alternative to your knee issue is if you can get baptised in a river or lake.  I think that would be a perfect situation for you.  BTW.  Did you know that when Christ was baptised in the Jordan, it became the blessing of all waters?  In God's great scheme of creation He made all waters connect to each other, so when Christ got baptised, He was blessing all the waters.  It was the redemption of the waters that He let loose at the time of the flood.  And St. Vladamir and many Russians were baptised in the flowing rivers.  I was limited to a barrel, but a more wonderful experience is being baptised in a lake.  Or if you dare, even the Jordan itself.
Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2011, 10:45:11 PM »
That's wonderful to see.  Maybe the tradition is coming back.

Baptism in Serbia





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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2011, 10:46:21 PM »
  Or if you dare, even the Jordan itself.

Dare is right!  Have you read how polluted it now is?

Offline Xenia1918

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2011, 10:59:21 PM »
When an Orthodox parish is seeking a new building, they can try to buy a Baptist or 7th Day Adventist church....those have baptisteries built right in the church, often under the pulpit area!
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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2011, 11:02:35 PM »
Although I may be received into the Church by chrismation, I've sometimes halfway hoped they would baptize me anyway- if only just because I think big baptismal fonts are kinda cool.   ;)
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Offline thefizzle656

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2011, 11:08:02 PM »
Although I may be received into the Church by chrismation, I've sometimes halfway hoped they would baptize me anyway- if only just because I think big baptismal fonts are kinda cool.   ;)

You could always ask your priest if he could receive you by baptism, if you express your desire he may do it.  I've heard of cases in which a person who would have been chrismated requested baptism and the parish priest agreed to do it.  That's how my godson was received into the church.  Just a thought!

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2011, 11:16:54 PM »
Although I may be received into the Church by chrismation, I've sometimes halfway hoped they would baptize me anyway- if only just because I think big baptismal fonts are kinda cool.   ;)

My position up front:   For 20 years I baptized every convert including Catholics because those were the instructions from my Serbian bishops.

Since 1996 when I was transferred to the Russian Church Abroad I have received Catholics by Chrismation because those were the orders I received from the Russian Dean (both Baptism and Chrismation are options in our diocese for Catholics.)


Now my hands-on experience is that people who desire Baptism ought to be baptized.  Although they may suppress their desire, in a pious effort to be obedient to the local priest or bishop, the desire may start to niggle at them after Chrismation and become quite a thorn in their side.  Men may resolve this by travelling to Mount Athos where the monks will insist on baptizing them before giving them communion and then the men can return home to America with a "Hey, I had to get baptized, the monks wouldn't commune me otherwise."

Offline joasia

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2011, 11:20:07 PM »
  Or if you dare, even the Jordan itself.

Dare is right!  Have you read how polluted it now is?

You forget the power of the Cross.
Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2011, 11:37:52 PM »
  Or if you dare, even the Jordan itself.

Dare is right!  Have you read how polluted it now is?

You forget the power of the Cross.

I hope that I would never forget the power of the holy Cross. But recklessness ought not to be encouraged.  We look at the thousands of Orthodox soldiers who have perished in battle and this is God's will even though they wear their Crosses.  The same for the poor young people who have died and are still dying because of the Chernobyl radiation.

 
"In recent years the flow of the river has slowed to a dirty trickle as fresh water running into the river has been replaced with sewage.

"Sadly, the lower Jordan River has long suffered from severe mismanagement with the diversion of 98 percent of its fresh water by Israel, Syria and Jordan and the discharge of untreated sewage, agricultural run-off, saline water and fish pond effluent in its place," the statement said."

http://news.discovery.com/earth/jordan-river-baptism-pollution.html

How many Orthodox parents would expose their babies to this risk?

Offline joasia

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2011, 11:51:55 PM »
  Or if you dare, even the Jordan itself.

Dare is right!  Have you read how polluted it now is?

You forget the power of the Cross.

I hope that I would never forget the power of the holy Cross. But recklessness ought not to be encouraged.  We look at the thousands of Orthodox soldiers who have perished in battle and this is God's will even though they wear their Crosses.  The same for the poor young people who have died and are still dying because of the Chernobyl radiation.

 
"In recent years the flow of the river has slowed to a dirty trickle as fresh water running into the river has been replaced with sewage.

"Sadly, the lower Jordan River has long suffered from severe mismanagement with the diversion of 98 percent of its fresh water by Israel, Syria and Jordan and the discharge of untreated sewage, agricultural run-off, saline water and fish pond effluent in its place," the statement said."

http://news.discovery.com/earth/jordan-river-baptism-pollution.html

How many Orthodox parents would expose their babies to this risk?

Satan, get behind me.  These are worldly concerns.  The power of the Cross defeats all.
Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2011, 11:56:19 PM »
  Or if you dare, even the Jordan itself.

Dare is right!  Have you read how polluted it now is?

You forget the power of the Cross.

I hope that I would never forget the power of the holy Cross. But recklessness ought not to be encouraged.  We look at the thousands of Orthodox soldiers who have perished in battle and this is God's will even though they wear their Crosses.  The same for the poor young people who have died and are still dying because of the Chernobyl radiation.

 
"In recent years the flow of the river has slowed to a dirty trickle as fresh water running into the river has been replaced with sewage.

"Sadly, the lower Jordan River has long suffered from severe mismanagement with the diversion of 98 percent of its fresh water by Israel, Syria and Jordan and the discharge of untreated sewage, agricultural run-off, saline water and fish pond effluent in its place," the statement said."

http://news.discovery.com/earth/jordan-river-baptism-pollution.html

How many Orthodox parents would expose their babies to this risk?

Satan, get behind me.  These are worldly concerns.  The power of the Cross defeats all.

Well, forgive me for being a "Satanist" in your eyes but if I saw a brown cloud of faecal matter in the river I would NOT baptize my child there.

Offline joasia

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2011, 12:20:09 AM »
Irish, first of all..did you actually see that?  Second, of all, the term I used was not towards you but towards the source that influenced you to make doubt of the Holy Cross.  Christ used that expression towards St. Peter when he tried to disuade Him from continuing His mission.

There should be no doubt in Christ's Cross. If a Christian cannot believe in the complete protection of the Cross, then he is not a Christian.  Think about it.  The Cross is our inheritence of our faith. 

I'll share something with you.  Once, a few years ago, I had one of the blessed eggs we get for Pascha.  A year later, I had it with me and to make a point to my father (which I won't get into here), I peeled that egg and ate it.  He was shocked.  But, I put that egg in my mouth, not even looking at it's condition, but trusting in God's blessing and ate it.  It was blessed by the priest with the sign of the Cross. You know what...I'm still here. 

All faith should be with Christ.  The Cross will save us from many circumstances. One other story.  You might have read it already. My friend was in an accident and he ended up with 7 broken ribs. One punctured his lung.  But, when he got out of the car, he crossed himself (the Orthodox way).  The doctor took the X-ray and saw that the lung had been punctured but was healed.  I guess there was a mark that he identified.

That's the power of the Cross and don't you forget it.  It may say your life one day.
Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2011, 01:48:07 AM »

Irish, first of all..did you actually see that?  Second, of all, the term I used was not towards you but towards the source that influenced you to make doubt of the Holy Cross.  Christ used that expression towards St. Peter when he tried to disuade Him from continuing His mission.

There should be no doubt in Christ's Cross. If a Christian cannot believe in the complete protection of the Cross, then he is not a Christian.  Think about it.  The Cross is our inheritence of our faith. 

I'll share something with you.  Once, a few years ago, I had one of the blessed eggs we get for Pascha.  A year later, I had it with me and to make a point to my father (which I won't get into here), I peeled that egg and ate it.  He was shocked.  But, I put that egg in my mouth, not even looking at it's condition, but trusting in God's blessing and ate it.  It was blessed by the priest with the sign of the Cross. You know what...I'm still here. 

All faith should be with Christ.  The Cross will save us from many circumstances. One other story.  You might have read it already. My friend was in an accident and he ended up with 7 broken ribs. One punctured his lung.  But, when he got out of the car, he crossed himself (the Orthodox way).  The doctor took the X-ray and saw that the lung had been punctured but was healed.  I guess there was a mark that he identified.

That's the power of the Cross and don't you forget it.  It may say your life one day.


May I share something with you?  I came back from Yugoslavia to a parish which had not had a priest for 5 years.  The parishioners had taken the daronositsa and put it in a cupboard of the church hall.

I opened it and was shocked to find the Holy Gifts were just covered in masses of awful fungus and mould.

Next Sunday at Liturgy I consumed half of them and the following Sunday I consumed the rest.

Please don't lecture me, Joasia.  Please don't assume that you are able to judge the quality of my faith nor anyone else's.


Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2011, 10:06:22 PM »

Irish, first of all..did you actually see that?  Second, of all, the term I used was not towards you but towards the source that influenced you to make doubt of the Holy Cross.  Christ used that expression towards St. Peter when he tried to disuade Him from continuing His mission.

There should be no doubt in Christ's Cross. If a Christian cannot believe in the complete protection of the Cross, then he is not a Christian.  Think about it.  The Cross is our inheritence of our faith. 

I'll share something with you.  Once, a few years ago, I had one of the blessed eggs we get for Pascha.  A year later, I had it with me and to make a point to my father (which I won't get into here), I peeled that egg and ate it.  He was shocked.  But, I put that egg in my mouth, not even looking at it's condition, but trusting in God's blessing and ate it.  It was blessed by the priest with the sign of the Cross. You know what...I'm still here. 

All faith should be with Christ.  The Cross will save us from many circumstances. One other story.  You might have read it already. My friend was in an accident and he ended up with 7 broken ribs. One punctured his lung.  But, when he got out of the car, he crossed himself (the Orthodox way).  The doctor took the X-ray and saw that the lung had been punctured but was healed.  I guess there was a mark that he identified.

That's the power of the Cross and don't you forget it.  It may say your life one day.


May I share something with you?  I came back from Yugoslavia to a parish which had not had a priest for 5 years.  The parishioners had taken the daronositsa and put it in a cupboard of the church hall.

I opened it and was shocked to find the Holy Gifts were just covered in masses of awful fungus and mould.

Next Sunday at Liturgy I consumed half of them and the following Sunday I consumed the rest.

Please don't lecture me, Joasia.  Please don't assume that you are able to judge the quality of my faith nor anyone else's.



I would like to say that, apart from this minor run in with Joasia, I have been kind of impressed with her kind and polite conduct on the Forum, always putting her point of view firmly but inoffensively.  This is not always the case with those from the parallel Churches.

Many Years, Joasia, Wiele lat!


Offline joasia

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2011, 10:55:16 AM »
Thank you, I.H.  I appreciate your kindness, really.
Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios

Offline Agabus

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2011, 11:29:57 AM »
When an Orthodox parish is seeking a new building, they can try to buy a Baptist or 7th Day Adventist church....those have baptisteries built right in the church, often under the pulpit area!
When the mission I attend bought our current building, it had a baptistry in front (it was formerly owned by Pentecostals). As the iconostasis was installed, however, the front of the baptistry had to be walled in and it is now well behind the sanctuary...So we use a large horse trough anyway.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 11:31:00 AM by Agabus »
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline genesisone

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2011, 01:09:32 PM »
When an Orthodox parish is seeking a new building, they can try to buy a Baptist or 7th Day Adventist church....those have baptisteries built right in the church, often under the pulpit area!
When the mission I attend bought our current building, it had a baptistry in front (it was formerly owned by Pentecostals). As the iconostasis was installed, however, the front of the baptistry had to be walled in and it is now well behind the sanctuary...So we use a large horse trough anyway.
Seems at first to be a good idea, but shouldn't baptisms be done in the narthex - at the west end of the church?

Offline Agabus

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Re: Joining the Orthodox Church
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2011, 01:15:57 PM »
When an Orthodox parish is seeking a new building, they can try to buy a Baptist or 7th Day Adventist church....those have baptisteries built right in the church, often under the pulpit area!
When the mission I attend bought our current building, it had a baptistry in front (it was formerly owned by Pentecostals). As the iconostasis was installed, however, the front of the baptistry had to be walled in and it is now well behind the sanctuary...So we use a large horse trough anyway.
Seems at first to be a good idea, but shouldn't baptisms be done in the narthex - at the west end of the church?
Hence the horse trough.  ;)
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH