Author Topic: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast  (Read 1760 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,363
Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« on: June 25, 2011, 05:10:58 PM »
The Big Greek Orthodox Church in town is having their gyro and car raffle fest during the Apostles' Fast.

And people complain here about the 0.0000008% of Masses celebrated in RCC that involve balloons and the like.



« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 05:11:21 PM by orthonorm »
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline Melodist

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,523
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2011, 06:07:16 PM »
Never been there. It's a shame they decided to do it the one weekend of the fast. The Antiochian church here does a food festival at the end of august after the Dormition.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,809
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2011, 06:53:26 PM »
That's almost nothing. The Greeks where I live ran a large weekend Greek festival, with spit roasts, souvlakia etc, for more than 30 years, close to the date of Greek Independence Day, which coincides with the Annunciation. Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  :o :o
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,425
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2011, 06:56:00 PM »
The Big Greek Orthodox Church in town is having their gyro and car raffle fest during the Apostles' Fast.

Yahoo Search for 'June 24 Greek Festival' shows at least 5 GOA Churches having Greek Festivals in places like IL, CA , WI, PA and MA.

I bet that the festival planners honestly didn't know and/or didn't care that their Greek Festival falls during the Apostles Fast, especially when these communities have a tradition of having their Greek Festival between Father's Day and the 4th of July due to the availability of volunteers.

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,697
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2011, 09:55:15 PM »
The Big Greek Orthodox Church in town is having their gyro and car raffle fest during the Apostles' Fast.

And people complain here about the 0.0000008% of Masses celebrated in RCC that involve balloons and the like.

One thing that I continually witness is the "larger" Orthodox Churches is money usually outweighs the faith.   Sad but true.  Seems so hypocritical.  Their Bishop should step in and correct this.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline genesisone

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,711
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2011, 10:08:51 PM »
While I can't say that I fast as properly as I wish I would, it seems strange to me that this festival takes place every year during the Dormition Fast: Taste of the Danforth.

Offline biro

  • Elevator lady, levitate me
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,673
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2011, 10:55:46 PM »
At my parish, the festival was during the first or second week of Great Lent.  ??? It drove me nuts wanting to be able to order a chicken sandwich like the visitors.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,103
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2011, 12:32:54 AM »
I have always found things like Orthodox youth groups having routine Friday night pizza parties more than discouraging. To me, it's like saying that fasting just doesn't matter at all.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,363
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2011, 07:42:49 AM »
Our OCA parish would never have a "fest" period.

The reason the Greek church in town has their fest when they do is so they don't have to compete with the other big RCC fest weekends and city festival weekends to get as much money as possible.

On their homepage, tons of info about their desire to push gluttony, lust, greed, etc. but nothing about the fast.

The Greek Orthodox Church in America creates an unfortunate stereotype for Orthodoxy in America: RCC without gyros and no Pope.

The other smaller "ethnic" lodges which serve Liturgy on Sunday do as well.

The "Greeks" (lulz at Americans who identify with an another country) have been here too long to seriously call themselves "Greek" and the ethnic clubs that serve Liturgy are so insularly ethnic and closed to call themselves "Catholic".

That is the good thing about the OCA, it jettisons all this accumulated nonsense.

Why did this topic get moved? I thought it might get polemical. //:=|



 
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline arnI

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 164
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOA Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2011, 08:55:14 AM »
Our OCA parish would never have a "fest" period.

The reason the Greek church in town has their fest when they do is so they don't have to compete with the other big RCC fest weekends and city festival weekends to get as much money as possible.

On their homepage, tons of info about their desire to push gluttony, lust, greed, etc. but nothing about the fast.

The Greek Orthodox Church in America creates an unfortunate stereotype for Orthodoxy in America: RCC without gyros and no Pope.

The other smaller "ethnic" lodges which serve Liturgy on Sunday do as well.

The "Greeks" (lulz at Americans who identify with an another country) have been here too long to seriously call themselves "Greek" and the ethnic clubs that serve Liturgy are so insularly ethnic and closed to call themselves "Catholic".

That is the good thing about the OCA, it jettisons all this accumulated nonsense.

Why did this topic get moved? I thought it might get polemical. //:=|


Lord have Mercy on me a sinner.

We have a truly wonderful parish and a Priest that tries to herd us along and provide guidance as needed to help us observe fasts and feasts.

The normal Friday fast falls within our fest, and serving Gyros on Fridays was not fun. But I did get a Gyro on Sunday.

Fests are fun and generate badly needed revenue.

Grant me to see my own errors and not to judge my brother

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,594
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 09:48:09 AM »
I have always found things like Orthodox youth groups having routine Friday night pizza parties more than discouraging. To me, it's like saying that fasting just doesn't matter at all.

Friday night is already Saturday. Saturday is not a fast day.


The "Greeks" (lulz at Americans who identify with an another country) have been here too long to seriously call themselves "Greek"

It's not for you to decide, especially when you have no clue what you are talking about.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline biro

  • Elevator lady, levitate me
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,673
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2011, 12:39:08 PM »
I just wish parishes would try to schedule the celebration outside of any fasting time. Then, 100% of attendees, Orthodox and otherwise, could go there without being 'stuck' in this issue.  :-\

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,363
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2011, 01:35:42 PM »
The "Greeks" (lulz at Americans who identify with an another country) have been here too long to seriously call themselves "Greek"

It's not for you to decide, especially when you have no clue what you are talking about.

That was about an empty a statement as I have ever read, so please tell me what I don't know.

Please give me the names of the people from the parish since you know how long they have been in America, etc.

Do you even know what parish I am talking about?
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,425
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2011, 01:46:10 PM »
I have always found things like Orthodox youth groups having routine Friday night pizza parties more than discouraging. To me, it's like saying that fasting just doesn't matter at all.

Friday night is already Saturday. Saturday is not a fast day.


The "Greeks" (lulz at Americans who identify with an another country) have been here too long to seriously call themselves "Greek"

It's not for you to decide, especially when you have no clue what you are talking about.

When I find a Polish Orthodox Church in the USA, I will let you know if Polish-Americans there continue to call themselves Polish.  Yes, there are some Greek-Americans who still identify with Greece and some who have "cast aside" their ethnicity for the heterogeneous American one.  Yet, for some Greek Orthodox Churches in the USA, a festival nets more than $100,000 which supplements the Church's Stewardship.  Some of the festival money is used for iconography or building maintenance or to make ends meet. 

What motivated your statement to orthonorm.   ???

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,594
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2011, 01:50:50 PM »
Please give me the names of the people from the parish since you know how long they have been in America, etc.

Do you even know what parish I am talking about?


What in common have length of the duration in America and nationality? Do you know the difference between nationality and citizenship?
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,103
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 02:21:51 PM »
Friday night is already Saturday. Saturday is not a fast day.

Oh, so everyone you know fasts from Thursday sunset to Friday sunset?  ::)

Offline FormerReformer

  • Convertodox of the convertodox
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,558
    • Music and Orthodoxy
  • Faith: Convertodox
  • Jurisdiction: Netodoxy
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 02:25:17 PM »
Please give me the names of the people from the parish since you know how long they have been in America, etc.

Do you even know what parish I am talking about?


What in common have length of the duration in America and nationality? Do you know the difference between nationality and citizenship?

I believe Orthonorm here is referring to Greek-Americans who are three or four generations away from being immigrants.  At least I hope so.  If that's the case it's certainly long enough to have shed the old "nationality".  I'm 4th generation Italian (with a few other things as many Americans, but the Italian is dominant both in name and genetics), but the only thing actually "Italian" about me are some great pasta recipes that have been in the family for years.

That said, there's plenty of parishes in America which are a hub for Greeks who just immigrated recently, or with a large percentage of older first generation immigrants.  The local Greek cathedral here has a large immigrant population, with a Greek priest who will give two homilies, one in English (before Communion for some reason) and one in Greek after the Liturgy but before dismissal (at least I assume the second speech is a homily, it lasts as long as one).  I don't criticize them for that, it's a necessity, along with the large percentage of Greek used in the Liturgy.  I decided to go to the OCA parish, though it's a little farther, it's all in English and I don't have a second sermon sitting between me and coffee  :angel:
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,594
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2011, 03:33:26 PM »
If that's the case it's certainly long enough to have shed the old "nationality". 

For you - maybe. For others - maybe no.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,363
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2011, 12:32:38 AM »
Friday night is already Saturday. Saturday is not a fast day.

Oh, so everyone you know fasts from Thursday sunset to Friday sunset?  ::)

Took the rolling eyes right out of my head.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline Melodist

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,523
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2011, 12:59:07 PM »
I just wish parishes would try to schedule the celebration outside of any fasting time. Then, 100% of attendees, Orthodox and otherwise, could go there without being 'stuck' in this issue.  :-\

I agree. I see nothiong wrong with festivals, but find it problematic for any church to hold activities that their congregation can't fully participate in, like serving meat during a fasting period, unless there is some sort of blessing given to eat in honor of a patronal celebration or something like that.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God

Offline Melodist

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,523
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2011, 01:00:32 PM »
Friday night is already Saturday. Saturday is not a fast day.

Oh, so everyone you know fasts from Thursday sunset to Friday sunset?  ::)

I do, at least on nights that I work third shift.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,363
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2011, 02:32:22 PM »
I just wish parishes would try to schedule the celebration outside of any fasting time. Then, 100% of attendees, Orthodox and otherwise, could go there without being 'stuck' in this issue.  :-\

I agree. I see nothiong wrong with festivals, but find it problematic for any church to hold activities that their congregation can't fully participate in, like serving meat during a fasting period, unless there is some sort of blessing given to eat in honor of a patronal celebration or something like that.

There are not feasts nor fests for the community of the parish, nor are they meals shared offered to the local poor. They are substitutions for poor stewardship orchestrated in concert with secular and heterodox organizations to make as much money as possible off the crowd searching for a place to gamble, drink, engage in gluttony, and the like throughout the entirety of the summer.

Nor do they have anything more to do with being "Greek" in this case as St. Patrick's Day has to do with being "Irish" at your typical St. Paddy's parade.


If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,363
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2011, 02:37:58 PM »
Do you know the difference between nationality and citizenship?

Do you know what you are talking about at all? I am going to go with a cultural and linguistic problem here.

But let's say the ambiguous rhetorical statement you are attempting to make has any merit. "Nationality" and "ethnicity", Christians ought not have neither or have all.

Some person in the NT somewhere talks about becoming all things to all people or something.

In the marriage between Christianity and "nationality" or "ethnicity" throughout history, Christianity has usually wound up the neglected spouse.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 02:38:25 PM by orthonorm »
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,594
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2011, 04:49:24 AM »
Do you know the difference between nationality and citizenship?

Do you know what you are talking about at all? I am going to go with a cultural and linguistic problem here.

But let's say the ambiguous rhetorical statement you are attempting to make has any merit. "Nationality" and "ethnicity", Christians ought not have neither or have all.

Some person in the NT somewhere talks about becoming all things to all people or something.

In the marriage between Christianity and "nationality" or "ethnicity" throughout history, Christianity has usually wound up the neglected spouse.

So you don't consider yourself a member of the American nation, do you?
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline biro

  • Elevator lady, levitate me
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,673
Re: Panegyri during the Apostles' Fast
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2011, 09:48:21 PM »
Quote from: orthonorm
Nor do they have anything more to do with being "Greek" in this case as St. Patrick's Day has to do with being "Irish" at your typical St. Paddy's parade.

So a church can't do anything to enjoy themselves or demonstrate their culture to those not in their community?

 ???