Tikhon.of.Colorado
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« on: June 24, 2011, 11:55:26 AM » |
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Before I go offending anyone, I want to say that I am merely wondering if what is shown in this video is real. Do they actually do this in some Roman Catholic Churches? I have seen women distribute communion, female altar servers, and other oddities, but never this. Has the pope said anything about this? Watching this makes me want to cry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wedpLBTKd84&feature=related |
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Monk Vasyl
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 12:47:17 PM » |
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I think the choice of the word "silly" will be offensive to some. A better choice would have been liturgical abuses. And the dear Lord knows there are lots of abuses.
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« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 12:55:35 PM by Monk Vasyl »
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The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl
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Schultz
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 12:56:45 PM » |
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1) Of course it's real
2) The Pope has spoken about this a number of times (he's against it)
3) You're not the only one who wants to cry upon seeing this.
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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
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Wyatt
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 02:03:32 PM » |
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There's nothing "silly" about the position these people are putting their souls in. Lord have mercy!
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HandmaidenofGod
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 02:38:36 PM » |
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I can tell by the title of this thread that this is going to inspire some real constructive dialogue between our Catholic friends and Orthodox brethren.  |
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"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
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Wyatt
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 02:43:02 PM » |
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I can tell by the title of this thread that this is going to inspire some real constructive dialogue between our Catholic friends and Orthodox brethren. Like so many threads on OC.net.  |
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WetCatechumen
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2011, 03:50:41 PM » |
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Before I go offending anyone, I want to say that I am merely wondering if what is shown in this video is real. Do they actually do this in some Roman Catholic Churches? I have seen women distribute communion, female altar servers, and other oddities, but never this. Has the pope said anything about this? Watching this makes me want to cry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wedpLBTKd84&feature=relatedPossibly some of them may be Episcopalian or liberal former Catholic schismatics with no jurisdiction. But yeah, sometimes stuff like this happens. Usually it's more boring lame stuff that happens, though. Which is typical. |
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"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence
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biro
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2011, 04:16:28 PM » |
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In the Roman Catholic Church, these things can and should be reported to the bishop, whose job it is to quash them and replace the parish personnel responsible.
There were flare-ups of these types of incidents from the 1960s to about the 1980s. There's a good book about it, which I've mentioned before- "Ungodly Rage," by Donna Steichen. Since then, there have been many new bishops appointed, who for the most part have cracked down on liturgical abuse. Every once in a while, you hear about another embarrassment like this slipping through the cracks. I hope for the RCC's sake that when the new liturgical manual is introduced later this year, the commitment to proper enforcement will be renewed.
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Noesisaa
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2011, 04:31:02 PM » |
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I don't know about that video, but this does happen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1anfqLgSKBIHappened this passed second day of Easter, nowhere else but in The Netherlands. Beautiful. |
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HandmaidenofGod
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2011, 04:33:23 PM » |
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I can tell by the title of this thread that this is going to inspire some real constructive dialogue between our Catholic friends and Orthodox brethren. Like so many threads on OC.net. I know. It can be quite overwhelming how civil and constructive the conversations can be.  |
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"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
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HandmaidenofGod
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2011, 04:35:20 PM » |
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...the commitment to proper enforcement will be renewed.
You mean, like these guys?  |
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"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
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biro
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2011, 04:38:12 PM » |
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No, the ability of the bishop to dismiss priests who allow liturgical abuses. For pity's sake.  |
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Wyatt
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2011, 04:38:40 PM » |
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In the Roman Catholic Church, these things can and should be reported to the bishop, whose job it is to quash them and replace the parish personnel responsible.
There were flare-ups of these types of incidents from the 1960s to about the 1980s. There's a good book about it, which I've mentioned before- "Ungodly Rage," by Donna Steichen. Since then, there have been many new bishops appointed, who for the most part have cracked down on liturgical abuse. Every once in a while, you hear about another embarrassment like this slipping through the cracks. I hope for the RCC's sake that when the new liturgical manual is introduced later this year, the commitment to proper enforcement will be renewed.
Perhaps part of what our problem is is that, when devout Christians see these abuses occurring within our Church, they decide to just leave the Church rather than remaining in it and actually working to change it from the inside. If more people didn't split and actually did something to end these abuses our Church would be much better. |
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HandmaidenofGod
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2011, 04:41:26 PM » |
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No, the ability of the bishop to dismiss priests who allow liturgical abuses. For pity's sake. Oh I know what you meant. It's just we've gone over this topic of liturgical abuses in the Catholic Church about a zillion times, and I really don't see any point to rehashing all that is "wrong" with the Catholic Church. It is hurtful to our Catholic friends, and doesn't aid in terms of charity or developing relationships with the Orthodox. And I'm in a silly mood, and it seemed like a good excuse to insert some Python into the conversation. So I apologize if I offended you. |
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"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
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podkarpatska
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« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2011, 04:44:19 PM » |
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Actually, Trevor, Pope Benedict has a long history as a liturgical scholar and he is most definitely working to reform the so-called 'reforms.' He has written a book entitled "The Spirit of the Liturgy". http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Liturgy-Benedict-XVI/dp/0898707846/
You may find this article of interest and it may make you feel better regarding the direction your former church MAY be taking. http://ceciliaschola.org/notes/benedictonmusic.html
Contrary to what some of us Orthodox may say, the Pope alone can not change everything in Catholicism by waving a wand.
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« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 04:45:26 PM by podkarpatska »
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ialmisry
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2011, 04:51:15 PM » |
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Actually, Trevor, Pope Benedict has a long history as a liturgical scholar and he is most definitely working to reform the so-called 'reforms.' He has written a book entitled "The Spirit of the Liturgy". http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Liturgy-Benedict-XVI/dp/0898707846/
You may find this article of interest and it may make you feel better regarding the direction your former church MAY be taking. http://ceciliaschola.org/notes/benedictonmusic.html
Contrary to what some of us Orthodox may say, the Pope alone can not change everything in Catholicism by waving a wand.
We wouldn't say it if the Vatican wouldn't claim it could fix our alleged problems with its wand. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2011, 05:09:38 PM » |
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Actually, Trevor, Pope Benedict has a long history as a liturgical scholar and he is most definitely working to reform the so-called 'reforms.' He has written a book entitled "The Spirit of the Liturgy". http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Liturgy-Benedict-XVI/dp/0898707846/
You may find this article of interest and it may make you feel better regarding the direction your former church MAY be taking. http://ceciliaschola.org/notes/benedictonmusic.html
Contrary to what some of us Orthodox may say, the Pope alone can not change everything in Catholicism by waving a wand.
We wouldn't say it if the Vatican wouldn't claim it could fix our alleged problems with its wand. Remember the diptychs... |
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biro
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« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2011, 05:16:02 PM » |
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Handmaiden- thank you. I'm sorry I got all persnickety. |
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Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.
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J Michael
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2011, 05:21:55 PM » |
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Actually, Trevor, Pope Benedict has a long history as a liturgical scholar and he is most definitely working to reform the so-called 'reforms.' He has written a book entitled "The Spirit of the Liturgy". http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Liturgy-Benedict-XVI/dp/0898707846/
You may find this article of interest and it may make you feel better regarding the direction your former church MAY be taking. http://ceciliaschola.org/notes/benedictonmusic.html
Contrary to what some of us Orthodox may say, the Pope alone can not change everything in Catholicism by waving a wand.
We wouldn't say it if the Vatican wouldn't claim it could fix our alleged problems with its wand. I think this was the kind of comment HandmaidenofGod *might* have been referring to here: I can tell by the title of this thread that this is going to inspire some real constructive dialogue between our Catholic friends and Orthodox brethren. Like so many threads on OC.net.
[/i][/b] Isa, can you not put your axe down for just a *little* while and rest your arm? Perhaps your heart might soften in the process. |
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"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
— St. Augustine of Hippo
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HandmaidenofGod
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« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2011, 05:44:06 PM » |
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We wouldn't say it if the Vatican wouldn't claim it could fix our alleged problems with its wand.
Remember the diptychs...
So now that you've both insulted the other's group, does that cancel the insult out? I mean, really, do you think that either one of you have "won" anything? Ooooh Isa insulted the Vatican. Feel the buuuuuurn. I'm sure that will have our Catholic friends rushing to Constantinople! But wait! Elijahmaria comes back with a blow! Watch as the masses flock to Rome! *sigh* The fact that more and more threads are looking like this makes me want to find a forum on chocolate pudding. After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church. |
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"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2011, 05:52:20 PM » |
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After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church. Chocolate pudding is Satanic self-indulgence. |
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Wyatt
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« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2011, 05:57:23 PM » |
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After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church. Chocolate pudding is Satanic self-indulgence. I much prefer tapioca. |
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HandmaidenofGod
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« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2011, 06:20:11 PM » |
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After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church. Chocolate pudding is Satanic self-indulgence. What about Banana? Ya know, the kind with the vanilla wafers? |
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"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
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IsmiLiora
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« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2011, 06:20:29 PM » |
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The fact that more and more threads are looking like this makes me want to find a forum on chocolate pudding. After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church.
I think you would be surprised. Just kidding. (I do want pudding now, and I hate pudding) I agree. I wonder why people need to make the same derogatory comments on every thread. I'll bet anyone, dollars to doughnuts, that God is going to give us a slap on the wrist for spending as much time as we did arguing. But on the other hand, I feel like we beat up our "own kind" too much, you know? We have standards for people in our faith, but I feel our energy would be spent better elsewhere. And sorry Trevor, but I kind of LOLed when you were talking about shocking things such as female altar servers! And females handing out the Eucharist! Oh noes! I may have grown up with that, but there are way, way more strange things in the Christian church than that. Please watch Jesus Camp and report back. (Full disclosure: I was an altar server for the RCC for 4 years. I am a womynz. I like how the Orthodox church does the male servers, although I am very slightly miffed that I can never go into the sanctuary. But I think God has more to worry about than female altar servers. My two cents.) |
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She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
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"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18
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I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --
Life went on no matter who was wrong or right
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Maria
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« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2011, 07:46:51 PM » |
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After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church. Chocolate pudding is Satanic self-indulgence. I much prefer tapioca. Baklava, Oh Baklava. |
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« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 07:48:20 PM by Maria »
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Glory to Jesus Christ!
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Maria
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« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2011, 07:51:31 PM » |
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After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church. Chocolate pudding is Satanic self-indulgence. What about Banana? Ya know, the kind with the vanilla wafers? Talking about silly Masses. Here in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles under the former Cardinal Mahony, several parishes had a special children's pretend liturgy where Kindergarden and first graders were served grape juice and Oreo Cookies as pretend-communion. When they reached the age of reason (7), they complained that they would rather be at the pretend liturgy where they could eat real cookies that tasted so much better. |
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« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 07:52:40 PM by Maria »
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Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
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Wyatt
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« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2011, 08:22:53 PM » |
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After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church. Chocolate pudding is Satanic self-indulgence. I much prefer tapioca. Baklava, Oh Baklava. I really love baklava, but I thought we were talking about pudding.  |
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Maria
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« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2011, 08:37:34 PM » |
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After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church. Chocolate pudding is Satanic self-indulgence. I much prefer tapioca. Baklava, Oh Baklava. I really love baklava, but I thought we were talking about pudding. We had gone offtopic with the posts about chocolate, chocolate pudding, banana pudding and vanilla wafers, and so I thought I would bring up baklava. Have you ever tried chocolate baklava especially those crowns? |
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Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
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Wyatt
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« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2011, 08:41:25 PM » |
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After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church. Chocolate pudding is Satanic self-indulgence. I much prefer tapioca. Baklava, Oh Baklava. I really love baklava, but I thought we were talking about pudding. We had gone offtopic with the posts about chocolate, chocolate pudding, banana pudding and vanilla wafers, and so I thought I would bring up baklava. Have you ever tried chocolate baklava especially those crowns? Oh wow. No, I've never had chocolate baklava, but I bet I would love it. You can take just about anything and make it chocolate and it is better in my book. |
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HandmaidenofGod
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« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2011, 08:45:08 PM » |
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After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church. Chocolate pudding is Satanic self-indulgence. I much prefer tapioca. Baklava, Oh Baklava. I really love baklava, but I thought we were talking about pudding. We had gone offtopic with the posts about chocolate, chocolate pudding, banana pudding and vanilla wafers, and so I thought I would bring up baklava. Have you ever tried chocolate baklava especially those crowns? Oh that really would be heaven. I mean, when they talk about manna from heaven in the Old Testament, I am convinced it was baklava they were referring to, because baklava is soo good, it MUST be made by the hands of the angels. Now Chocolate baklava, YOWZER! I can only imagine how delicious that would be! |
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"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11
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« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2011, 08:48:41 PM » |
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If I became Greek Orthodox, it would (at least partially) be for the baklava and gyros. Seriously, you all have amazing cuisine.  |
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biro
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« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2011, 09:00:40 AM » |
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The fact that more and more threads are looking like this makes me want to find a forum on chocolate pudding. After all, there's got to be more charity on a forum about chocolate pudding than a forum that is supposed to be discussing Christ and His Church. Yes, indeed. If there were a challenge for everyone to write 10 sentences in which they tried to convert someone to their faith, I doubt many of us would get to the end accurately and in a spirit of peace.  Then again, pudding is yummy! |
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« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2011, 09:26:09 AM » |
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That video was hard to stomach. I kept wanting to turn it off. Has anyone seen the rock-concert mass that CARDINAL SCHONBORN performed? This guy isn't even a renegade priest. And worse, he's a likely candidate for the papacy after Benedict XVI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Lom28KSlg |
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lubeltri
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« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2011, 10:07:19 AM » |
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Watching this makes me want to cry.
Then why do you watch this nonsense? |
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lubeltri
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« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2011, 10:17:57 AM » |
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That video was hard to stomach. I kept wanting to turn it off. Has anyone seen the rock-concert mass that CARDINAL SCHONBORN performed? This guy isn't even a renegade priest. And worse, he's a likely candidate for the papacy after Benedict XVI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67Lom28KSlgNah, his papal chances got ruined after he went off the rails. He is a joke in Rome now. |
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2011, 10:19:05 AM » |
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Watching this makes me want to cry.
Then why do you watch this nonsense? When there are millions of reverential masses said in the Roman rite and ritual all over the globe every day, I can only think of one reason why some people obsess on the lunatic fringe.... |
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Michał Kalina
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« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2011, 02:32:29 PM » |
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When there are millions of reverential masses said in the Roman rite and ritual all over the globe every day, I can only think of one reason why some people obsess on the lunatic fringe....
Maybe the problem is that you tolerate them? |
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Maria
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« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2011, 02:38:12 PM » |
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Watching this makes me want to cry.
Then why do you watch this nonsense? When there are millions of reverential masses said in the Roman rite and ritual all over the globe every day, I can only think of one reason why some people obsess on the lunatic fringe.... I did not click that link. Why would I want to disturb my inner peace? I witnessed so much liturgical abuse while I was a Catholic as I had to bear with Cardinal Mahony's Liturgical Revolution. We are called to pray unceasingly. Viewing such links are not conducive to prayer. |
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« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 02:41:06 PM by Maria »
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Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2011, 03:01:18 PM » |
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When there are millions of reverential masses said in the Roman rite and ritual all over the globe every day, I can only think of one reason why some people obsess on the lunatic fringe....
Maybe the problem is that you tolerate them? LOL...more likely I don't ever encounter them. They are insignificant in the main. There are some egregious bishops who have caused serious difficulties in their sees over the years but even in those worst cases there are more good and reverential liturgies than fringe liturgies, because even heterodox bishops ordain good and orthodox priests. I don't come anywhere near these dioceses in my life so "toleration" is not part of the equation. But that takes nothing from the fact that there are MILLIONS of reverential masses celebrated daily in the Roman rite and ritual all over the world. What you are having a hissy fit about gets entirely lost in a sunami of orthodox and reverent liturgies. That is not to detract from the fact that where things are not well ordered, real people suffer. But it is still minuscule in number. |
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biro
Ursus maritimus
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Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
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« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2011, 03:43:40 PM » |
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Maybe the problem is that you tolerate them? They don't, when they find out about them. When these are reported to the bishop, they are generally stopped and often the priest is removed. It remains up to someone in the parish to contact the bishop. The RCC church is widespread enough that it's difficult to root out these types of people until after the incident has already happened. Even the most dedicated of archbishops can't be everywhere at once.  |
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phthalyl.podomatic.com
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Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?
Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.
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elijahmaria
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« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2011, 06:30:07 PM » |
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Maybe the problem is that you tolerate them? They don't, when they find out about them. When these are reported to the bishop, they are generally stopped and often the priest is removed. It remains up to someone in the parish to contact the bishop. The RCC church is widespread enough that it's difficult to root out these types of people until after the incident has already happened. Even the most dedicated of archbishops can't be everywhere at once. You, dear heart, are a member of an endangered species but I am glad that there's at least one of you left!! |
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biro
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Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
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« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2011, 10:44:19 PM » |
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Thank you. |
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phthalyl.podomatic.com
the-cornet.blogspot.com
___
Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?
Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.
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Vlad
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« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2011, 01:01:18 AM » |
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The Novus Ordo is one big liturgical abuse. It should be abrogated and the Tridentine which is real Catholic Worship brought back.
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Robb
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« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2011, 01:13:36 AM » |
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The Novus Ordo is one big liturgical abuse. It should be abrogated and the Tridentine which is real Catholic Worship brought back.
I'm sorry that you feel that way. I attend the so called "Novus Ordo" every week and on holy days and find great solice and devotion in it. On the other hand, I attended a Tridentine Mass in the past and found the experience to be cold and scary. The only thing I ever got out of my experience with the Mass "of all time" was a whole lot of jitters. Don't just assume that all RC's are completely fed up with the reforms of the Mass and long for the return of the Latin Liturgy and the overscrupulous theology and morality that, in past accompanied it. The Popes Summorum document freeing the "old" mass is almost four years old and the number of Latin Masses worldwide has only slightly increased. There is not as much interest in its restoration of some malcontents would have us believe. This is proved by the facts I've just stated. If Catholics were really so enamored by this old rite then would not most churches be overcrowding with people wishing to attend them? This, so far hasn't happened and I highly doubt that we can except a return to this supposed Catholic Camelot anytime soon. |
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Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert
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