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Author Topic: Saint John Chrysostom vs Eugenius IV on eating blood  (Read 742 times) Average Rating: 0
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Vadim
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« on: June 24, 2011, 03:08:57 AM »

(1)

Saint John Chrysostom, Homilies on Genesis, HOMILY 27 (p. 162)
(p. 173-174) (16) "Notice, however, this point as well, how the command was given with precision: whereas in the case of the human being he said, Don't shed blood, in the case of the brute beasts he did not say, Don't shed it, but, "'Except you are not to eat flesh with the lifeblood in it.'" In one case, Don't shed it, in this case, Don't eat it. Do you see how little burden is imposed by his laws? how light and easy his directions? how he looks for nothing burdensome and demanding from our nature? Some people, of course, say animals' blood is heavy, earthy and nauseating; we on the blood is heavy, earthy and nauseating; we on the contrary ought show our observance to arise not from that reason of greater logic but from the Law of the Lord."

(2)

ECUMENICAL COUNCIL OF FLORENCE (1438-1445)
Session 11—4 February 1442
[Bull of union with the Copts]
"Eugenius, bishop, servant of the servants of God, for an everlasting record.
<...>
It firmly believes, professes and teaches that every creature of God is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because according to the word of the Lord not what goes into the mouth defiles a person, and because the difference in the Mosaic law between clean and unclean foods belongs to ceremonial practices, which have passed away and lost their efficacy with the coming of the gospel. It also declares that the apostolic prohibition, to abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled, was suited to that time when a single church was rising from Jews and gentiles, who previously lived with different ceremonies and customs. This was so that the gentiles should have some observances in common with Jews, and occasion would be offered of coming together in one worship and faith of God and a cause of dissension might be removed, since by ancient custom blood and strangled things seemed abominable to Jews, and gentiles could be thought to be returning to idolatry if they ate sacrificial food. In places, however, where the Christian religion has been promulgated to such an extent that no Jew is to be met with and all have joined the church, uniformly practising the same rites and ceremonies of the gospel and believing that to the clean all things are clean, since the cause of that apostolic prohibition has ceased, so its effect has ceased. It condemns, then, no kind of food that human society accepts and nobody at all neither man nor woman, should make a distinction between animals, no matter how they died; although for the health of the body, for the practice of virtue or for the sake of regular and ecclesiastical discipline many things that are not proscribed can and should be omitted, as the apostle says all things are lawful, but not all are helpful."
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 03:11:18 AM by Vadim » Logged
Vadim
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 04:40:42 AM »

I'm sorry, I've repeated twice one same expression "the blood is heavy, earthy and nauseating"; and now can't already modify previous post. The corrected sentence is: "...Some people, of course, say animals' blood is heavy, earthy and nauseating; we on the contrary ought show our observance to arise not from that reason of greater logic but from the Law of the Lord."
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 04:43:36 AM by Vadim » Logged
mike
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 07:07:58 AM »

Slavic nations have many blood-inclusive dishes. Both EO an RC Christans eat them.
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 08:40:11 AM »

Slavic nations have many blood-inclusive dishes. Both EO an RC Christans eat them.
It was forbidden by Apostolic Council and by the Sixth Ecumenical Council again. And nowadays, in Orthodox books intended to help to prepare for confession, in the list of sins the sin of eating things with blood is included. For example, here is such a book of St. Ignatiy Bryanchaninov (in Russian): "...ate blood of animals, Ecumenical council, 67 Canon. Acts, 15." Ask any Orthodox priest, and he will reply that this is forbidden.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 08:43:25 AM by Vadim » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 08:45:45 AM »

Ask any Orthodox priest, and he will reply that this is forbidden.

Ask any Orthodox Priest in Poland, and he will reply he ate blood.

I'm not saying it's OK with the Church teachings (but tasteful). It's just a dead canon.
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Vadim
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 09:09:33 AM »

Ask any Orthodox Priest in Poland, and he will reply he ate blood.
Really? It's hard to believe.

I'm not saying it's OK with the Church teachings (but tasteful). It's just a dead canon.
This canon was given by Apostles, even more: by the Holy Spirit, so how it can be dead? Moreover, as Saint John Chrysostom explains, this law, given to Noe, not to eat blood, was given exactly in the same form, as the law that was given to Adam not to eat from one tree only: "... after entrusting him with control over everything and providing him with enjoyment of things in the garden, he bade him abstain from one tree only, in just the same way in this case ...".

Here he compares this two laws, given to Adam and given to Noe:

(Saint John Chrysostom, p. 171) (12) "Do you see the comfort quite sufficient and capable of uplifting the good man's spirit? Do you see how much reward he receives for his gratitude? Listen also to what follows as a further example of God's unspeakable generosity. "God blessed Noe and his sons," the text goes on. "He said to them, 'Increase and multiply, fill the earth and gain dominion over it. All the animals of the earth will be in fear and dread of you, all the birds of heaven, everything moving on the earth and all the fish of the sea; I have put them all under your control. Every living creature is there for your food - I have given you them all as I did the green grass - except you are not to eat flesh with its lifeblood in it.'" Here it is proper to marvel at the extraordinary degree of the Lord's goodness; notice, I ask you, once again this good man being accorded the same blessing as Adam, and through his virtue recovering the control previously lost - or rather, on account of the Lord's ineffable love. I mean, as he said in the case of the former man, "'Increase and multiply, fill the earth and gain dominion over it; have control of the fish of the sea, the reptiles, the birds of heaven and the animals of earth,'" so now he says, "'All the animals of the earth will be in fear and dread of you, and all the birds of heaven. Every living creature is there for your food - I have given you them all as I did the green grass - except you are not to eat flesh with its lifeblood in it.'" Notice the same rule as that imposed on the first formed man, but differently observed: just as in that case, after entrusting him with control over everything and providing him with enjoyment of things in the garden, he bade him abstain from one tree only, in just the same way in this case, after the blessing and making him an object of fear to the animals and putting the birds under his control, he said, "'Every living creature is there for your food - I have given you them all as I did the green grass.'"
(13) From this the eating of meat takes its beginning, not for the purpose of prompting them to gluttony, but since some of the people were about to offer sacrifices and make thanksgiving to the Lord, he grants them authority over food and obviates any anxiety lest they seem to be abstaining from food on the score of its being consecrated. "'I have given you them all,'" he says, "'as I did the green grass.'" Then, as in the case of Adam he instructed him to abstain from the one tree while enjoying the others, so in this case too, after permitting the consumption of them all without hesitation, he says, "'except you are not to eat flesh with its lifeblood in it.'" So what does this statement mean? In means "strangled," for an animal's blood is its soul. So since they were about to offer sacrifices in the form of animals, he is more or less teaching them in these words that al song as the blood has been set aside for me, the flesh is for you. By doing this, however, he checks ahead of time any impulse of theirs for homicide."
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 09:09:50 AM by Vadim » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2011, 09:26:13 AM »

Slavic nations have many blood-inclusive dishes. Both EO an RC Christans eat them.

And they always find their way into our Pascha baskets.
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The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl
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