OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 20, 2014, 10:39:59 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Orthodox Convert Suffering From Convert-itis  (Read 6413 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« on: June 23, 2011, 05:38:06 PM »

Hello:
I was born a Roman Catholic and received into the catechumenate of Orthodoxy back in 2007. I was chrismated in 2008. Lately, I have been having temptations to go back to Roman Catholicism, and I admit, many of the reasons for me wanting to go back are trivial, some are not though. The main reason I have yearned to go back is that Catholicism is more convenient for me as there are more Catholic Churches here in South Texas and those churches have a plethora of minisitries, including young adult groups (I am in my early 30s). A not so trivial reason is that I had read some postings on here by a person who reverted to Catholicism and they said they could sacramentally live out a better relationship with God through Catholicism for much of the same reasons I figured I could: options to receive Eucharist daily; strong private devotions outside of Sunday liturgy/Mass; admiration of certain Roman Saints; adoration of the Eucharist; family ties, etc. I then, to test myself, looked up videos of Catholic abuses such as clown masses and stuff like that, et al., and realized I was getting myself into something not quite right. I feel Orthodoxy with is no addition nor subtraction doctrine is the true Apostolic Church, but sometimes wonder if I can worship God better as a Roman Catholic. I am much confused by this. I announced to several of my Roman friends (who initaally werent happy to see me leave Romanism) that I was becoming a R.Catholic again. One a seminarian was thrilled, but another devout Roman friend of mine said I wa sbeing wishy washy (and he is right). I wish to establish firm faith in God and whatever church truly is His. Please offer some advise, especially for those who are Orthodox on why I should remain Orthodox. Thanks
Logged
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2011, 06:01:07 PM »

I feel Orthodoxy with is no addition nor subtraction doctrine is the true Apostolic Church...

How far are you from the nearest Orthodox parish?
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,975


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2011, 06:02:31 PM »

Why did you become Orthodox in the first place?

I converted 10 years ago, not really because because of church issues, but because of Christ. To me, Christ was present in the Orthodox Church in a way He was not in the Lutheran Church. I have not looked back or anywhere else since.

We all have difficulties in spiritual life, but we must face them with conviction and resolution. And we should, I think, cultivate stability. What you describe as your reasons for wanting to go back to Roman Catholicism appear to be from convenience, also it appears you equivocate Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. To me, this shows a lack of stability and conviction. You have made the choice to become Orthodox. Even if you did not take vows, which I assume you did, you have entered into a marriage of sorts to a spotless Bride. She is not divided, nor does she have equals. So, the issue at stake is the firmness of your own heart to be true to this Bride or to break your vow and leave her. Whatever decision you make will have profound consequences.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 7,006



« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2011, 06:19:54 PM »

Why did you become Orthodox in the first place?

I converted 10 years ago, not really because because of church issues, but because of Christ. To me, Christ was present in the Orthodox Church in a way He was not in the Lutheran Church. I have not looked back or anywhere else since.

We all have difficulties in spiritual life, but we must face them with conviction and resolution. And we should, I think, cultivate stability. What you describe as your reasons for wanting to go back to Roman Catholicism appear to be from convenience, also it appears you equivocate Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. To me, this shows a lack of stability and conviction. You have made the choice to become Orthodox. Even if you did not take vows, which I assume you did, you have entered into a marriage of sorts to a spotless Bride. She is not divided, nor does she have equals. So, the issue at stake is the firmness of your own heart to be true to this Bride or to break your vow and leave her. Whatever decision you make will have profound consequences.

I agree and I would add one thing. One of the key characteristics of Christian life the ascetic struggle to deny oneself. I would think that we may have different issues to overcome and that we are not always in best circumstances to do so, which in itself is yet another (but very important) issue to struggle with. It seems to me that you want an easier way for your own ascetic struggle. Instead, why don't you rejoice that being in the Orthodox Church where you now are gives you that opportunity to deny yourself in another way? It seems to me that you problem is not what you stated but a desire to do things your own way. Don't take me wrong, we all are tempted by this and we all have fallen short. But, you know deep inside that you are indeed doing just that, even though you have put forth reasonable and laudable reasons for doing so. Or, are they really that reasonable and laudable reasons or are they excuses for the deeper want--to go your own way?
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2011, 06:20:29 PM »

I am about 15 -20 minutes away from an Orthodox Parish, but the one I was chrismated at is 35-45 minutes away. The Parish I had been chrismated at wouldn't let me transfer to the nearer parish. Shanghaiski is right though, this is a marriage and I cannot just leave out of convenience. I should try not to equate Romanism and Orthodoxy.
Logged
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2011, 06:28:07 PM »

I am about 15 -20 minutes away from an Orthodox Parish, but the one I was chrismated at is 35-45 minutes away. The Parish I had been chrismated at wouldn't let me transfer to the nearer parish. Shanghaiski is right though, this is a marriage and I cannot just leave out of convenience. I should try not to equate Romanism and Orthodoxy.

How can a parish not let you transfer?? Which jurisdiction(s) are these two parishes in??
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2011, 06:31:25 PM »

The parish I was chrismated at is OCA, the nearer parish is Antiochian. They are sister churches and get along well, it's just that there has been some sort of talk about parishes poaching members from other parishes.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 06:31:41 PM by stjustinmartyrorthodox » Logged
authio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 369



« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2011, 06:32:43 PM »

Are you married? Is there much family pressure for you to revert?
Logged

Christ is risen!
Cristo ha resucitado!
Христос Воскресе!
Χριστός Ανέστη!
 المسيح قام
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2011, 06:35:53 PM »

The parish I was chrismated at is OCA, the nearer parish is Antiochian. They are sister churches and get along well, it's just that there has been some sort of talk about parishes poaching members from other parishes.

My opinion counts for nothing here, but as far as I am concerned, a person should attend and support their closest Orthodox parish as much as possible. People can talk all they want, you need to do what is best for your own spiritual health.
Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2011, 06:39:31 PM »

No I am not married
Logged
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2011, 06:54:30 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

It is written in the prologues of Roman Liturgy books which sit in the pews at most of the RC parishes I sometimes wander into to pray quietly some afternoons that it is the official position of the Roman Church not to overtly proselytize Orthodox or even Protestant, but rather as best as able to maintain an almost mutual respect for each jurisdictions respective Traditions.

That being said, folks can bash me as a euceminist all they'd like, but I agree with this.  Not only should the RC not actively recruit from Orthodox, but we should respect their boundaries as well, at let RC be RC.  So when folks reason with me from a RC background, I generally, while promoting the Truth of Orthodox, try my hardest not to recruit.  I often tell folks who are "recovering Catholics" that find themselves inspired by my own Orthodox living, that it  is not the Orthodox Church necessarily that blesses my life, but God.  So, if folks were raised Catholic or feel inherently more comfortable worshiping in an RC parish, I highly recommend these remain Catholic out my respect for that jurisdictions own housekeeping. 

If you feel the Spirit in the Roman Mass, in the Roman traditions, in the Roman ministries and fellowship, in the Roman prayers and calendar and Saints, then honestly why come to Orthodox? Perhaps God is tugging in our heart to be a Catholic? Again, I know a lot of Orthodox are going to have a lot of negative things to say or think or feel about my statement, but I stand by it, if you are a Catholic inside, stay a Catholic. 

I believe that for those who are Catholic, the Roman jurisdiction is as validly Apostolic as is say an Armenian for an Armenian, even though some in the Russian or EO jurisdictions would condemn Armenians as Oriental heretics.  This is all really silly if you ask me.  If the EO has certain region/jurisdictional teachings, they should maintain these within their own respective jurisdiction, but be careful not to step on others toes who may have been guided into a slightly different course.  We've always had several overlapping jurisdictions that maintain a certain degree of day to day autonomy, and its only after the two major schisms that we have began to overemphasize our differences rather than our Universal sames.

So again, pray about it, and above all else, ask your priest (and as odd as it might sound from this forum, I'd suggest you speak with both your priests, those who you were under as a RC and those who you are a catechumin under currently in Orthodox)

As I have said to others in a similar situation, maybe its just that God wants you to be a Roman Catholic?

Stay Blessed,
Habte Selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Nero
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 115



« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2011, 07:59:49 PM »

Greetings to the OP.

I'm also currently going through the same discernment between Roman Catholic and Orthodoxy. Here is the best advice I can offer:

Above all things, try to answer this question: Where can I best grow in love for Christ?
Another important question: Did God make me to be Catholic or Orthodox?

Different people have different circumstances / dispositions and therefore end up in different ecclesiastic settings. Some people are naturally more legalistic, and being in the Catholic Church may mean they get trapped in the Catechism - this has certainly happened to converts before, and it hinders their growth in Christ. Another person may prefer the social charity work that nuns in the Catholic church do (as opposed to the more monastic lives of Orthodox nuns), and would therefore side with Catholicism to live a life like Mother Theresa's. God made us all differently. As long as the Church that you're looking into doesn't teach things that are egregiously against scripture, then God may very well be calling you there. And far be it from any of us, Catholic or Orthodox, to judge the Church alone - lest we forget, the Amish are probably much more humble than most of us.

A Catholic nun once told me, following the wrong vocation will be like wearing a shoe that doesn't fit - you may be able to get around, but it will always feel off. The same is true about spouses, and I'd also say about Churches. If you feel drawn to the Catholic Church, and it feels like it's a perfect fit, then that may be part of the way God is telling you to become Catholic. Just be honest to yourself about it.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 08:06:00 PM by Nero » Logged
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Moderated
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 14,699



WWW
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2011, 08:19:19 PM »

I think everyone has struggles sometimes. I'd discuss this with my priest.  Smiley
Logged
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2011, 09:07:38 PM »

The parish I was chrismated at is OCA, the nearer parish is Antiochian. They are sister churches and get along well, it's just that there has been some sort of talk about parishes poaching members from other parishes.
"some sort of talk" does not sound like permission denied to me.
You actually have formally asked to transfer?
If you have and it has been denied that is scandalous. At the least there is no canonical reason I know that prevents you from maintaining your 'membership' at the OCA parish but attend, and receive the Gifts, at the Antiochian provided you are in good standing with the OCA until these two parishes get their act together.
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Moderated
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I'm Greek and proud of it, damn it!
Posts: 6,279



« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2011, 09:15:57 PM »

The main reason I have yearned to go back is that Catholicism is more convenient for me as there are more Catholic Churches here in South Texas and those churches have a plethora of minisitries, including young adult groups (I am in my early 30s).

So, to you, the faith is a matter of convenience?  I suppose for the martyrs it would have been far more convenient to sacrifice to the pagan gods and be spared and repent later than remain steadfast and give everything for the faith that Christ bestowed to us.  I can't believe you actually made this your "main" point.  I'm sure that there are probably way more Protestant/Evangelical churches in Texas than Catholic parishes. Perhaps you should opt for the convenience of those as "convenience" is your main point for your  yearning.

Now, joking and sarcasm aside, if the lack of a plethora of ministries is a problem at your Orthodox church, what are you doing to remedy that?  Have you considered starting a young adult group?  Have you reached out to other Orthodox parishes for maybe some joint activities?  What have you done?  Instead of waiting for the "convenience" of something already being in existence for you and your benefit, maybe you are needed to make it happen.  The faith produces only fruits when it is worked upon, sometimes assiduously and arduously.  Perhaps you are being called to do that.

As far as some of your other concerns, receiving the Eucharist daily is hard to do in many Orthodox parishes as it is not normal praxis.  However, many parishes do have daily or weekly vespers or othros.  Those are as beneficial to your faith as receiving the Eucharist.  I fully believe that if more people, especially converts, would pray Orthros, they would really understand their faith so much better and be able to live it so much better.  With veneration of certain saints, I guarantee that for every post schism Roman CAtholic Saint, there is an Orthodox one to match him/her.  Orthodoxy has its own Francises of Assisi, Catherines of Siena, Bonaventures, Bernards of Clairvaux, etc.  With regards to veneration of the Eucharist, that is, frankly, a practice foreign to Eastern Orthodoxy because it is so overwhelmingly contradictory to Christ's commandments.
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2011, 09:22:16 PM »

I am actually in South Texas which is the area that is predominately Hispanic and thus predominately Catholic. There are mor Catholic Churches here than Protestant/Evangelical ones. I am also of Hispanic descent and Christ is Christ period. Saint Paul ultimately says that love is prime.
Logged
Shlomlokh
主哀れめよ!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Bulgarian
Posts: 1,301



« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2011, 10:01:06 PM »

I am actually in South Texas which is the area that is predominately Hispanic and thus predominately Catholic. There are mor Catholic Churches here than Protestant/Evangelical ones. I am also of Hispanic descent and Christ is Christ period. Saint Paul ultimately says that love is prime.
I understand your concerns. I live in "the bible belt" and we have a Baptist or some other Protestant church on just about every corner. Our little mission is the only Orthodox church in town. The next town over has a Greek parish and some of their members had come from our parish after leaving in a tiffy and tried to poach our members. They have a new priest now who likes us and doesn't see us as a threat (he invited our whole church to celebrate Vespers with them). Lovely people. I know it's hard not being in a similar culture with more access to other things, but know that you are not alone. Others are struggling with you in very similar situations. Hang in there. Endure to the end. Smiley We're all in the race together.

In Christ,
Andrew
Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2011, 11:00:43 PM »

Ancillary question (because I really do not know): Are Roman Catholics free to pick and choose their parish-of-record?
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
NMHS
Site Supporter
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Jurisdiction: UOC
Posts: 185


« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2011, 11:30:16 PM »

I am about 15 -20 minutes away from an Orthodox Parish, but the one I was chrismated at is 35-45 minutes away. The Parish I had been chrismated at wouldn't let me transfer to the nearer parish. Shanghaiski is right though, this is a marriage and I cannot just leave out of convenience. I should try not to equate Romanism and Orthodoxy.

15-35 minutes isn't all that bad.  My closest parish is 3 hours away Grin
Logged
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,831


WWW
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2011, 11:58:16 PM »

I am actually in South Texas which is the area that is predominately Hispanic and thus predominately Catholic. There are mor Catholic Churches here than Protestant/Evangelical ones. I am also of Hispanic descent and Christ is Christ period. Saint Paul ultimately says that love is prime.

Convert-ectomy is not the cure for convert-itis.  You are being tempted to return to Roman Catholicism just because you find it more convenient than Orthodox Christianity.  I don't know why you had to tell your OCA Church that you were leaving for the Antiochian Church.  I understand that the OCA Diocese of the South and most of the Antiochian Church is in turmoil; however, think of them as struggling on a higher level than you.  Paul also said that in one's weakness, one finds strength and I am confident that you can find the strength to remain an Orthodox Christian in spite of the invitations to return back to RC.   Smiley
Logged
TheMathematician
OC.net guru
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: American
Posts: 1,624


Formerly known as Montalo


« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2011, 12:02:27 AM »

Ancillary question (because I really do not know): Are Roman Catholics free to pick and choose their parish-of-record?

the parish of record is the baptismal parish, no matter where you live


For example, if i lived in Phoenix, AZ, and moved to Paris, my records would always be kept in Phoenix
Logged
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2011, 12:06:59 AM »

Ancillary question (because I really do not know): Are Roman Catholics free to pick and choose their parish-of-record?


the parish of record is the baptismal parish, no matter where you live


For example, if i lived in Phoenix, AZ, and moved to Paris, my records would always be kept in Phoenix

OK, then let me rephrase my question: Can a Roman Catholic choose his parish?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 12:08:01 AM by Αριστοκλής » Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
TheMathematician
OC.net guru
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: American
Posts: 1,624


Formerly known as Montalo


« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2011, 12:15:40 AM »

Ancillary question (because I really do not know): Are Roman Catholics free to pick and choose their parish-of-record?


the parish of record is the baptismal parish, no matter where you live


For example, if i lived in Phoenix, AZ, and moved to Paris, my records would always be kept in Phoenix

OK, then let me rephrase my question: Can a Roman Catholic choose his parish?

yes and no, as much as i hate to say it

Yes: A catholic may register and attend whatever parish he so chooses
No. A catholic, while he may register at any parish, would be a registered non-parishoner at the church he attends, because he only belong to the parish that he lives in the territory for.
Logged
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2011, 11:55:56 AM »

To me, Christ was present in the Orthodox Church in a way He was not in the Lutheran Church.

This is the most important point, along with where is the Truth, and the true Apostolic Faith to be found.

I was Lutheran born and Lutheran bred, and when I died, I'd was going to be Lutheran dead. (as we say in these parts). I never thought of being anything else. Being Lutheran was an integral and important part of my identity, my culture, my heritage and family, as well as my faith. As a matter of fact, I was in the discernment process and had been accepted to a Lutheran seminary, with the goal of being ordained.

Suffice it to say that my conversion to Orthodoxy did not meet with universal approval from my family - and I have always had a wonderful, close relationship with them. (okay, except for a few years there between say, 18 and 22! Wink) And I had to give up my dream of being a pastor. I don't want to sound whiny, but all this was really hard, and in many ways, Orthodoxy was like being the new in-law at a family reunion. You don't understand the relationships, know the stories or get the jokes. It was much "easier" in my homey Lutheran church. Orthodoxy is hard.

But though I have occasionally felt "homesick," I have never really seriously considered returning.
"Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal Life."
The Orthodox Church is the one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Other faith traditions or faith communities, however admirable and faithful, just...aren't.
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2011, 04:01:43 PM »

This sounds like a true, spiritual struggle for you. I would encourage you to speak with your priest about that which ails you. Take what you have here, weight what we say, and take it with you to him, if it helps. But this, I believe, is spiritual, and your priest should be the most important person involved in this for you.

That said, you raised a few reasons your like Catholicism. I'd like to look at those.

1. Options to receive Eucharist daily;

Not really an option in most Orthodox parishes in the US, granted. That said, we do have a full cycle of services that should be done at least on Saturday night/Sunday morning. I don't know about you, but I gain just as a much a spiritual blessing from the Vigil service as I do from Liturgy (save the actual reception of the Eucharist, of course). I just love it.

2. Strong private devotions outside of Sunday liturgy/Mass;

There are many private devotions in the Orthodox tradition. The praying of akathists and canons, molebens, etc. Also the use of the Jesus Prayer or modifying it for other saints (nothing wrong with using the chotki to pray "Most Holy Theotokos, save us" or "Holy Father John, pray to God for us," etc.

Many western devotions have also been baptized by the Western Rite Orthodox, perhaps that is something you would be interested in exploring? Where is the nearest WRO parish? There aren't many, and so maybe it couldn't be a frequent trip for you, but it might help.

3. Admiration of certain Roman Saints;

This can be problematic. That said, I know Orthodox who have a veneration of some Western saints. I know Orthodox who love St. Francis of Assisi, or St. Bernard of Clairvaux. There are also many pre-schism Roman saints that are beloved by Orthodox, like St. Patrick of Ireland, St. Brendan the Navigator, St. Sebastian, St. Alban of Britian, St. Augustine of Hippo, Pope St. Leo of Rome, Pope St. Gregory of Rome, Pope St. Martin of Rome, St. John Cassian, etc.

4. Adoration of the Eucharist;

Why do you want this? Ultimately, this issue comes down to the purpose of the Eucharist. Orthodox do worship and adore the Eucharist in the Liturgy. At the same time, Christ says, "take, eat" and not "take and look at," (to risk being a little blunt). I think this is ultimately something theological, and so I'd like to hear your thoughts on Eucharistic Adoration and why you miss it.

5. Family ties

I can't say much about this one, either. At least your family is Roman Catholic. They at least have an understanding. My parents have a Protestant background, but are not religious. They don't get me at all. I can't really relate to them in a lot of lifestyle type of issues. They don't get the importance of the daily services, the Liturgy, regular private prayers, fasting, etc. I hate using this, but...it could probably be worse.


I hope that you find where you should go on this journey.

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
thefizzle656
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 44



« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2011, 04:30:28 PM »

I feel Orthodoxy with is no addition nor subtraction doctrine is the true Apostolic Church, but sometimes wonder if I can worship God better as a Roman Catholic.

If you really believe in your heart that the Orthodox Church is the true Church of Christ, do you believe that it would be possible to worship Him better in a church that isn't His?
Logged
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2011, 06:20:10 PM »

Hey, me again:
One time I heard in an Orthodox liturgy a sermon where the priest said what ultimately mattered was, as St Paul had said, is how much love you had to give on earth, not how theologically right one was. St Paul had concerned himself with being right, before his conversion, that he had forgotten how to love. Granted one can love their neighbor as much as themselves as an Orthodox or a Catholic; but ultimately should one choose an esoteric church based on believing they are right, but not having the love within one's self to feel comfortable in said church? Also, Jesus said his ministry is not to be hidden, nor is his church supposed to be hidden; one does not light a lamp to put it under a bushel so ot speak. The Catholic Church is visible worldwide in ways Orthodoxy is not. Many people in the West, where we live, don't even know what the Orthodox Church is. Why is the Orthodox Church so hidden as to be almost constricted as if by an anaconda? Anyways, on another hand, we had tried organizing some ministries, such as a young adults group, in my city but it floundered. Also, I get so much peace through adoration and the rosary that I feel I do not need to justify it by argument. Do I believe Catholicism to be right, well I can learn to see it as right and I see the Catholic Church as holy through what Pope John Paul II said was a sign of contradiction, something so holy it not only inspires great love but encounters great hostility too worldwide. You can look up signs of contradictions on the Net. Well I am open to anything you all have to say...Sometimes I do wonder where are the Orthodox St Josemaria Escrivas or St Joseph Monacattis, or Saints of the modern age that speak for ordinary people and not monastics. Regards
Logged
joasia
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RTOC
Posts: 224



« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2011, 06:24:54 PM »

I feel Orthodoxy with is no addition nor subtraction doctrine is the true Apostolic Church, but sometimes wonder if I can worship God better as a Roman Catholic.

There is no Eucharist in the RC.  Pope Sergius IV (1006) replaced leaven bread with unleaven bread.  Since the leaven bread represents Christ's Resurrection, he was introducing a heresy that Christ is not Resurrected.  Also, he removed the invocation of the Holy Spirit during consecration.  The Orthodox Church teaches that this is when the bread and wine are changed to Christ's Body and Blood that He promised us.  This invalidated their sacrement.  Since the Pope considered himself as Christ's representative (whereas in Orthodoxy, the clergy represent the laity to God), he made himself and all succeeding popes as witnesses of themselves to the people.  He elimated the place of the Holy Spirit and replaced Him with himself (pope).  This is blasphemy.  Top that off with his infallibilty-complex and voila...you are worshipping the pope.  It's his organization, his offering.

Is this what you want to go back too?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 06:27:44 PM by joasia » Logged

Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2011, 06:39:30 PM »

Joasia:
From what I understand RTOC isn't even in communion with the rest of Eastern Orthodoxy. Anyways, it always amazes me that people are so Pharisaical as to even invent things and myths to sustain their righteousness and they lose sight of the true Gospel. Read Matthew 25:40 Joasia and let me know how you would respond to Christ's question on the last day? He isn't going to say to the myriad scores of Christians you all were not Orthodox Christians in communion with Orthodoxy you go to hell, he is going to ask, did you do my Father's will and love Him above all else and your neighbor as yourself.
Logged
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2011, 06:45:00 PM »

I should have said I feel as Orthodoxy with a no addition nor subtraction doctrine MAYBE the One True Apostolic Church, apologies.
Logged
joasia
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RTOC
Posts: 224



« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2011, 06:46:39 PM »

Joasia:
From what I understand RTOC isn't even in communion with the rest of Eastern Orthodoxy. Anyways, it always amazes me that people are so Pharisaical as to even invent things and myths to sustain their righteousness and they lose sight of the true Gospel. Read Matthew 25:40 Joasia and let me know how you would respond to Christ's question on the last day? He isn't going to say to the myriad scores of Christians you all were not Orthodox Christians in communion with Orthodoxy you go to hell, he is going to ask, did you do my Father's will and love Him above all else and your neighbor as yourself.

I was giving you the facts.  There is no life without His Body and Blood in us.  I cannot offer you compromises on this matter.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 06:47:15 PM by joasia » Logged

Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2011, 06:47:40 PM »

Joasia:
The Eastern Orthodox Church Communion says the Catholic Church has valid sacraments and Eucharist.
Logged
joasia
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RTOC
Posts: 224



« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2011, 06:49:37 PM »

Joasia:
The Eastern Orthodox Church Communion says the Catholic Church has valid sacraments and Eucharist.

That's Ecumenism for ya.
Logged

Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2011, 06:50:56 PM »

That's fanatical fundamentalism for ya
Logged
TheMathematician
OC.net guru
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: American
Posts: 1,624


Formerly known as Montalo


« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2011, 06:55:38 PM »

Joasia:
The Eastern Orthodox Church Communion says the Catholic Church has valid sacraments and Eucharist.
my (future) priest has this to say

"By baptizing someone coming from heterodox Christianity, the Church is not saying that the person did not have a relationship with Christ before. I believe that I knew Christ before coming to Orthodoxy. Rather, it is just a question of proper authority: Who has the authority to baptize?"

IF the Romans do not have the authority to baptize, then it it logical to understand that the romans do not have any sacraments, which means that there are no valid orders, and as such no Eucharist.
Logged
Nero
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 115



« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2011, 07:40:57 PM »

Quote
St Paul had concerned himself with being right, before his conversion, that he had forgotten how to love.

Just a caveat - notice that in Catholicism (at least as I have experienced it) there is a very legalistic tendency. Even my priest said that the Catechism was unnecessarily strict in some areas of law.
Logged
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2011, 07:48:16 PM »

Joasia:
The Eastern Orthodox Church Communion says the Catholic Church has valid sacraments and Eucharist.

I keep reading this here. No, Orthodoxy does not so state anything about such "validity".
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2011, 07:50:44 PM »

Joasia:
From what I understand RTOC isn't even in communion with the rest of Eastern Orthodoxy. Anyways, it always amazes me that people are so Pharisaical as to even invent things and myths to sustain their righteousness and they lose sight of the true Gospel. Read Matthew 25:40 Joasia and let me know how you would respond to Christ's question on the last day? He isn't going to say to the myriad scores of Christians you all were not Orthodox Christians in communion with Orthodoxy you go to hell, he is going to ask, did you do my Father's will and love Him above all else and your neighbor as yourself.

While I'm not going to defend what Joasia is saying, and even more where he is saying it (I don't feel this is necessarily the place for such debate), it does bring up a certain point. Christ said we will worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, and Christ is the Truth. Both the RCC and the EOC claim to be the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. You were born RCC and left it, being apostate. If you return there from the EOC, the Orthodox will consider you apostate. Only one is the True Church, and each lay claim to this. Ultimately, I think, that has to be the question we ask. Putting away our fuzzy feelings and quirky desires...which is the True Church?

I hope you find your answer.
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2011, 07:56:40 PM »

The Eastern Orthodox Church Communion says the Catholic Church has valid sacraments and Eucharist.

Certain individuals within the Eastern Orthodox Communion say that the Catholic Church has valid sacraments and Eucharist*

Some of the Eastern Orthodox churches receive Catholics via baptism only, and among those who receive them by Chrismation it is common to see this as a completion of the graceless form of the sacrament they received from Rome. So to say that the Eastern Orthodox Church formally and unanimously accepts the validity of Roman sacraments, or to claim that those who don't are extremists, is inaccurate at best.
Logged
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2011, 07:57:12 PM »

Joasia:
The Eastern Orthodox Church Communion says the Catholic Church has valid sacraments and Eucharist.

I keep reading this here. No, Orthodoxy does not so state anything about such "validity".

And, as an aside, this is true. "Validity" of sacraments is a post-schism Western notion. No such thinking exists in Orthodoxy.
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
joasia
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RTOC
Posts: 224



« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2011, 07:59:35 PM »

While I'm not going to defend what Joasia is saying, and even more where he is saying it (I don't feel this is necessarily the place for such debate), it does bring up a certain point. Christ said we will worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, and Christ is the Truth. Both the RCC and the EOC claim to be the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. You were born RCC and left it, being apostate. If you return there from the EOC, the Orthodox will consider you apostate. Only one is the True Church, and each lay claim to this. Ultimately, I think, that has to be the question we ask. Putting away our fuzzy feelings and quirky desires...which is the True Church?

I hope you find your answer.
[/quote]

I'm female. And my comment wasn't in anyway fanatical. And where I'm saying it is a post about a question of the RC and Orthodox Church.  I was just stating the facts of the RC and what happened and what the holy fathers taught.  I'm just plagerizing.  

In Christ, Joanna
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 08:33:14 PM by joasia » Logged

Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2011, 08:05:22 PM »

I guess I said the Catholic sacraments are valid because many, including myself, were received by chrismation only. So is it true, Orthodox don't believe Catholics have a valid annd/or Real Presence in their Eucharist?
Logged
joasia
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: RTOC
Posts: 224



« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2011, 08:40:15 PM »

I guess I said the Catholic sacraments are valid because many, including myself, were received by chrismation only. So is it true, Orthodox don't believe Catholics have a valid annd/or Real Presence in their Eucharist?

BTW. To clarify.  I was received from the RC too. But, I was baptised...not in the RTOC, but the GOC.  I came to understand that sprinkling is not a baptism and I wanted to be in Christ's Church.  That's from the holy fathers, not my own feelings.  I thought I was giving you significant points that meant something.  The Great Schism and what I mentioned above are honest facts.  That's all.  But, it seems like you have already made up your mind and just want justification.  I'm sorry, I can't give you that.  This is my honest view and I certainly hope it doesn't make future posts an obsticle between us.  I hope you stay in the Orthodox Church.
Logged

Stillness,  prayer, love and self-control are a four-horsed chariot bearing the intellect to Heaven. (Philokalia 2: p.308 - #24) - St. Thalassios

The proper activity of the intellect is to be attentive at every moment to the words of God.   (Philokalia 2: p. 308 - # 30) - St. Thalassios
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2011, 08:51:34 PM »

So is it true, Orthodox don't believe Catholics have a valid annd/or Real Presence in their Eucharist?

The quick and honest answer:  some do and some don't.


Chesterton and Belloc were once visiting an Anglican church and one them genuflected to the tabernacle.

The other remonstrated:  You shouldn't do that.  There's nothing there.

The one who had genuflected replied:  Well, if He is there, He is there as a prisoner!"

Hey, don't shoot me.  I am just repeating a Chesterton-Belloc conversation.  laugh
Logged
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2011, 09:45:25 AM »

So is it true, Orthodox don't believe Catholics have a valid annd/or Real Presence in their Eucharist?

The quick and honest answer:  some do and some don't.


And also we really don't know. We can conjecture that, because of the Great Schism and subsequent actions, that the RCC is no longer part of the Church, but we don't know where or how or how much of God's grace is bestowed. That's His business. It's the old "we know where the Church is, but not where it isn't."
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2011, 09:49:11 AM »

Do I believe Catholicism to be right, well I can learn to see it as right

Think about this. Do you really mean what I think you mean here?

Could it be that you are simply homesick and are looking to justify yourself, now that the honeymoon is over?
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
jah777
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,975


« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2011, 03:22:14 PM »

There are many stories and testimonies to the grace that is found in the Orthodox Church, and only in the Orthodox Church.  One such story that is of particular significance to me concerns the visit of Roman Catholic monk from Italy to Elder Porphyrios in Athens:

Quote
We certainly are able to say this because the catholic conscience of the Church has already said it. All those who knew him witness and confess to the holiness of the man. The abundance of miracles performed by him proclaim that he is a saint, one of the saints of our Church.

For every person who approached him, Elder Porphyrios was a revelation. This also happened with the non-Orthodox. I would like to tell you a very characteristic story.

Once, when we were at New Skete [jah777-the one on Mt. Athos obviously], we were hosting a Catholic monk who had come to Mt. Athos to learn more about how the monks live, the ascetic life and the general polity of Mt. Athos. We told him about Elder Porphyrios and when he went to Athens he went to meet him.

When Elder Porphyrios saw him, without asking him anything, he began to describe this monk's monastery in Italy and their way of life there. He even described a neighboring convent. He saw all the monks and nuns there and mentioned each one of them in specific detail.

The monk was literally dumbfounded because it was the first time in his life that he had met such a man. When he returned to Mt. Athos, he told us, "If someone had told me about these things; that he had seen and heard these things, I would never believe it. How is it possible for this person who lives in Greece to describe our monastery in Northern Italy in detail, to tell me all those details, to tell me about the monks, to tell me about the nuns, each one of them individually?" As this monk told us, when he asked Elder Porphyrios how he was able to see all these things, he answered him: "God's grace reveals the mysteries to us, the Orthodox."

Such stories, for me, are "the bottom line", and provide what no amount of argumentation or philosophy can provide.  Many are the stories of mature Roman Catholics, devout in their Roman Catholicism, who are received into the Orthodox Church by baptism and experience a grace and transformation never before experienced as Roman Catholics. 
Logged
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2011, 03:29:23 PM »

The Imperative:
If Orthodoxy is the truth why are you all not evangelizing diligently? If you think about it, the truth should not be hidden, so why does the Orthodox church not evaneglize as much as Rome or the Protestants? Isn't imperative?
Logged
orthonorm
Moderated
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,670



« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2011, 03:45:16 PM »

3. Admiration of certain Roman Saints;

There are also many pre-schism Roman saints that are beloved by Orthodox, like St. Patrick of Ireland, St. Brendan the Navigator, St. Sebastian, St. Alban of Britian, St. Augustine of Hippo, Pope St. Leo of Rome, Pope St. Gregory of Rome, Pope St. Martin of Rome, St. John Cassian, etc.

Nice post Benjamin.

Question about this part though. I know St. Augustine gets abused by many EOs in my opinion, but how can a pre-schism Saint not be an Orthodox one, in general. I am not saying that you are saying this here, but it could be implied.

Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,450



« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2011, 03:59:29 PM »

3. Admiration of certain Roman Saints;

There are also many pre-schism Roman saints that are beloved by Orthodox, like St. Patrick of Ireland, St. Brendan the Navigator, St. Sebastian, St. Alban of Britian, St. Augustine of Hippo, Pope St. Leo of Rome, Pope St. Gregory of Rome, Pope St. Martin of Rome, St. John Cassian, etc.

Nice post Benjamin.

Question about this part though. I know St. Augustine gets abused by many EOs in my opinion, but how can a pre-schism Saint not be an Orthodox one, in general. I am not saying that you are saying this here, but it could be implied.
Augustine had his problems, but many of those who are so deadset against him have never actually read what he wrote.
Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2011, 04:25:35 PM »

The Imperative:
If Orthodoxy is the truth why are you all not evangelizing diligently? If you think about it, the truth should not be hidden, so why does the Orthodox church not evaneglize as much as Rome or the Protestants? Isn't imperative?

This is a non-sequitur, and illogical as well. While it could be argued, depending on your definition of evangelism (grabbing people by the collar, yelling at them on streetcorners?), the Orthodox are not doing such a hot job, that has nothing to do with whether or not the Orthodox Church is the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. There are various sociological/historical reasons for this, along with the fact that Orthodoxy has a different idea about evangelism.
Also if you are basing your argument on effective and widespread evangelism, then wouldn't the Mormons be the True Church?
Thus, your argument is neither true nor logical.
There may be many valid reasons to believe that the RCC is the True Church, but this ain't one of them.
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2011, 04:27:31 PM »

A light is not meant to be hidden. I wasnt saying that he who knocks on most doors is the true church, just that if one has the truth, why hide it? Shouldn't one do all they could to get the word out?
Logged
IsmiLiora
Chronic Exaggerator
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: One step closer!
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (GOA)
Posts: 3,434


Back by unpopular demand.


« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2011, 04:41:18 PM »

A light is not meant to be hidden. I wasnt saying that he who knocks on most doors is the true church, just that if one has the truth, why hide it? Shouldn't one do all they could to get the word out?
That's a fair assertion, except it gets hard to define what "getting the word out" is. I mean, there are Orthodox websites, Kindle books, YouTube videos, message boards, so they're not exactly lagging behind technologically.

Are you talking about tracts, missions designed to recruit people to the church under some sort of clever "ministry"? No? What would you say that "getting the word out" is, then? Genuinely curious. I understand what you are saying, but I rather like the Orthodox approach of missions, service work, and letting our light shine through our own behavior and lives. Could we push it more? Of course; we all can. But if the Orthodox Church becomes the show of light and smoke and mirrors to attract the world, I don't think I would be too comfortable with that, either.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 04:41:43 PM by IsmiLiora » Logged

She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
--
"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18
--
I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --
Life went on no matter who was wrong or right
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2011, 04:47:05 PM »

Hola Una Mujer del Mundo, como estas?:
Missions are a good idea. And there are missions in th enooks and crannies of rural Texas, my home state. I give Orthodoxy props for that. Just here in San Antonio, I always questioned what St. Herman of Alaska would do if he were alive and well in San Antonio, TX in 2011. He would reach out to the Hispanics and perhaps have a mission for them, as they make up 60% of the city's population. Liturgies would be in Spanish and the Orthodox parishes in the inner city would not be such a bubble in its community. Instead of spending 100,000s of dollars on icons, why not launch a charitable and missionary endeavor? Start little missions or interest centers in strip malls in the suburbs and in areas in the inner city. Some local parishes do a somewhat good job, in that a local parish here (Orthodox) distributes coats and warm coffee and tracts to the homeless during Christmas time. That is what I am talking about. So Una mujer del mundo, de donde eres y fuistes catolica algun tiempo?
Logged
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2011, 05:28:45 PM »

3. Admiration of certain Roman Saints;

There are also many pre-schism Roman saints that are beloved by Orthodox, like St. Patrick of Ireland, St. Brendan the Navigator, St. Sebastian, St. Alban of Britian, St. Augustine of Hippo, Pope St. Leo of Rome, Pope St. Gregory of Rome, Pope St. Martin of Rome, St. John Cassian, etc.

Nice post Benjamin.

Question about this part though. I know St. Augustine gets abused by many EOs in my opinion, but how can a pre-schism Saint not be an Orthodox one, in general. I am not saying that you are saying this here, but it could be implied.
Augustine had his problems, but many of those who are so deadset against him have never actually read what he wrote.

It's true. St. Augustine has had plenty of historical controversy. Afterall, he is beloved by the Roman Catholics to this day for his contribution to soteriology, but the Calvinists also consider him to be a father of their soteriology, which is in no way related to historical Christian doctrine. He was, it seems, largely forgotten in the East until recently, and then bashed by those (usually converts) who find him and see all of this attributed to him, and they have a hard time reconciling him with Orthodoxy, and so they bash him. It's unfortunate.

Now, as was said, St. Augustine did have his mistakes (many of them he dismissed in his Retractions, by the way) but he is a classic story of a hedonist who encountered Christ and had his life radically altered through the prayers of his holy mother, St. Monica. St. Augustine is a model of repentence and asceticism. His spiritual writings are some of the best the west has ever produced, and deserve as much veneration as the work of other western saints such as St. Benedict or St. John Cassian.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 05:29:40 PM by Benjamin the Red » Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
Shlomlokh
主哀れめよ!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Bulgarian
Posts: 1,301



« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2011, 05:42:28 PM »

A light is not meant to be hidden. I wasnt saying that he who knocks on most doors is the true church, just that if one has the truth, why hide it? Shouldn't one do all they could to get the word out?
What are YOU doing to evangelize?

In Christ,
Andrew
Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2011, 05:56:12 PM »

Good question Andrew. I got a phone call right now from a friend of mine who is a practicing Orthodox by birth. He said perhaps all my questioning, I could do soemthing about it. He said if I complain about the lack of evangelizing maybe I am called to do that. I did try some evangelizing, by writing about Orthodoxy, but I made the mistake of being polemical, on Facebook to Catholic friends of mine. Needless to say, they remained Catholic. I used to talk to coworkers and friends about my faith and what I was. But I don't know if one like me could be called to evangelize, or if roadblocks would occur. One time, I had the idea for a young adults ministry, and my Orthodox friend aforementioned, took off with th eidea (which was good since he is such a good organizer), but he took too much control over it and it floundered after a year. At least it lasted as long as it did. But the Greek parish in town, their pastor did not like the idea of a Pan Parish young adult group and stated the Greeks already had one and we should join forces with the Greeks and be under them (our group). The priests of the city thought we could have a confederacy of sorts of 3 young adult groups for the 3 parishes and meet under an umbrella, unfortunately, the leadership of our group rejected that idea. I have always wanted to do Orthodox media such as an Orthodox zine much like Death to the World, which had a lot of success in converting people. I always wanted a zine that reached out to people like myself, young, college educated, urban/suburban, but didnt know where to start. I also am a teacher by trade and would like to see an Orthodox Mother Seton (the 1st US born Roman Saint) who started the parochial school system for US Catholics. Or thought an Orthodox St Josemaria Escriva who sought holiness in ordinary life outside monasticism would be great, or an Orthodox St Joseph Moscati who was a medical doctor and remained single and a lay person for all his life in order to serve the poor thru his work. Maybe a lot of us Orthodox or Catholics are called to different ministries and we should heed the calling. After all we are all called to be Saints! How would one evangelize, what do you think?
Logged
IsmiLiora
Chronic Exaggerator
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: One step closer!
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (GOA)
Posts: 3,434


Back by unpopular demand.


« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2011, 06:20:33 PM »

While I don't think we NEED 100,000 icons, I don't mind the church being as it is. It's a wellspring of beauty and holiness to my soul, and I'm sure, to those who step in. Even my atheist sister seemed in awe of just the beauty itself. We're surrounded by a lot of ugliness and darkness nowadays, so I think that something like that is beneficial.

However, I think that there should be a balance. My church isn't completely "finished" with the icons, paintings, etc. They are still doing charitable work and working on the improvements to the building one bit at a time. I think that is the best approach, although I am always in favor of bumping up the giving. I am actually thinking about talking to my priest about some more charitable work in the community. That is definitely something you can do. However, we are called to be saints, no matter what we do, lay person, clergy, mother, writer, etc. A full-time mother might not be out there saving 200 souls a day, but she is spending precious time tending to the 3 souls in her household. I wouldn't dare to call her work less important than someone who has the time to evangelize.

Plus, from what I've seen at my church at least, the priest seems to be more involved in the every day lives of the church members. I am in awe when I see him talking to everyone, asking about specific people and issues. He also takes the time out for my husband and I, as catechumens, and knows about what is going on in our spiritual and work lives as well as our marriage. He's already overworked and most likely underpaid, as it is, so I think we lay people do need to step up!

But as someone coming from the evangelical church, I'm stepping away from that for the time being, because I still struggle with guilt about not "evangelizing." Let me tell you what our evangelizing was like. It was aggressive, and while it was done out of love, it didn't feel right to me at all. But I still felt guilty if I wasn't targeting my nearest Muslim friend and trying to get her to talk about God. There are different ways. Ever since we became catechumens, we've had people ask about the church and even consider joining us. Now, in their cases, they were really intimidated, and I'm not sure that a few of them will be considering Orthodoxy in the future!

I pray that they will find the peace in the Church someday, but that's their choice. My point is that my husband and I appeared to be at peace and joyful, and we talked about our process of joining the church in a way that made people want to know more. We weren't even aware that we were evangelizing -- we just couldn't keep quiet about it.

So I keep asking that question, "What can I do to serve God?" Seeing His love in others is what attracted me to the church, not a bunch of tracts. So I pray that His sinful daughter may be able to repent over her own sins and let His light shine through her, rendering God visible in the world.


(Y voy a enviarte un mensaje a tarde Wink Y no soy de un pais como Sudamerica o España, pero mi madre es de Filipinas. Cuando yo era una nina, asistí de la iglesia catolica.)
Logged

She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
--
"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18
--
I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --
Life went on no matter who was wrong or right
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2011, 10:16:56 AM »

My point is that my husband and I appeared to be at peace and joyful, and we talked about our process of joining the church in a way that made people want to know more. We weren't even aware that we were evangelizing -- we just couldn't keep quiet about it.

Now that's what I call evangelizing!

Truly I'm not singling anyone out and I don't want to sound mean or critical, though I probably will, but one of my pet peeves is people who complain, after trying something once and it didn't work out to their satisfaction.

Whatever happened to "if at once you don't succeed, try, try again."

Try it another way. Try it someone else's way. Try, try, try. Don't just try it once, shrug your shoulders and say it didn't work. And especially don't blame or put the responsibility on someone else if it doesn't work.

So what if the Greeks "always" want to be in charge? Let 'em, as long as it gets done!
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2011, 01:28:07 PM »

The Greeks in our city are the parish that separates itself from the Antiochian and OCA parishes. During Lent, during co celebrations on Wednesday presanctified liturgies, the Greeks usually are not there. The Greeks in town aren't well integrated into the other 2 Orthodox Churches, yet they want to lead. The Greeks also didnt like it when an Antiochian parish moved into town as they were afraid of losing members.
Logged
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2011, 02:02:30 PM »

The Greeks in our city are the parish that separates itself from the Antiochian and OCA parishes. During Lent, during co celebrations on Wednesday presanctified liturgies, the Greeks usually are not there. The Greeks in town aren't well integrated into the other 2 Orthodox Churches, yet they want to lead. The Greeks also didnt like it when an Antiochian parish moved into town as they were afraid of losing members.

Hmmm. Is that St. Sophia - I thought the priest was Romanian?

Maybe they would be more integrated if you let them think they were leading?
 Wink
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,975


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2011, 02:10:36 PM »

There is certainly more that needs to be done with evangelism, and not everyone is on the same page, but we should not expect more from others than we expect from ourselves. You want things to be provided for you, but that will not be of much avail if you do not do some work yourself in your own heart.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2011, 02:11:27 PM »

Clarification:
I am in no way saying anyone on this forum is wrong in any way. I wish mainly to write about my own experiences and how I am finding fulfillment in the Catholic Churhc. Maybe some have taken offense by me stating something, but I do not wish to call anyone wrong. In this transitional period, do I entertain maybe the orthodoxy of Orthodoxy, yes I do. But I have just lately felt so empowered by the writings of Pope John Paul II and St Josemaria Escriva and the works of St Jean Baptiste de la Salle of which I can find no other anywhere else.
Logged
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2011, 02:12:34 PM »

There is certainly more that needs to be done with evangelism, and not everyone is on the same page, but we should not expect more from others than we expect from ourselves. You want things to be provided for you, but that will not be of much avail if you do not do some work yourself in your own heart.

Good point, and one we should all take to heart!
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2011, 01:30:03 AM »

Differences between Roman Catholicism, Early Church, Eastern orthodoxy.

From an airplane the differences between Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are not very big. Same number of sacraments and such.

From getting to the bottom line , the real problem is modifying the sacraments so you play dice regarding the validity:
1.Holy Communion for eternal life: In Apostolic times there was the understanding that flesh contains blood however Early Church did gave Holy Communion with both wine and bread.Beside this even if Early Church used leavened bread in Roman Catholic Churches unleavened bread is used like in Old Testament. In Roman Catholicims in many parishes the people receive only bread and priests get both wine and bread. Also prayers have been shortened. So in the end you play dice.

Take the example Holy water where the process of obtaining it was changed and thus in Romano Catholicism people put salt into Holy Water which does not happen in Early Church and Eastern Orthodoxy. Take Holy water from both Romano Catholicism and Eastern orthodoxy and see which one resists more.

On the time of Michael the Brave he went to a city with Romano Catholic majority and wanted to built a Church and people wanted Romano Catholic Church and he wanted Eastern Orthodox. So he said, lets build the True Church, whichever it is. Some Romano Catholics said lets debate but Michael the Great said, lets look for a miracle. You prepare Holy water and I ask Eastern orthodox priests to prepare theirs. And we will put these together and after several day we will see and the water resisting more will decide. They waited several days and God sent a sign to one man and he announced Michael the Great that went with all people to Church to open Holy waters. When Romano catholic Holy water was open a stench come and was green. When Eastern orthodox Holy water was open, very clear. Like here: http://stmaryofstamford.org/holywater.html


See, like in hOly water the changes in sacraments can be visible in invisible world.

Very usefull are prayers for the departed. In Roman Catholicism the FALSE doctrine that souls can not be helped entered so Romano Catholic Mass IN MY UNDERSTANDING does not have prayers for the departed. In Early Church and in eastern orthodox Church we have the prayers for the departed and dyptich when the name of departed is mentioned in front of God at Holy Liturgy. Miracles have shown this mentioning to save souls from Hell.

When Romano Catholics were waiting for Holy Light MIRACLE the Holy Light did not come.
When Romano Catholics enetred the Church to celebrate Holy Liturgy with Orthodox , eastern orthodox being pressured by Emperror, God destroyed 2 Churches killing many inside. The Eastern orthodox monks killed did give a bad smell even until today with hair and nails growing. So looks like , Romano Catholicism and Eastern orthodoxy are not the same.

You are right, it is bad that there is no as much mission as it should be. However the problem may have arrisen from communism problem that weaken the Churches.

Now converting to the true Church does not mean the fight is over and that sick angel will let you alone and not try to get you back farther and farther away if possible.

Look to this miracle, how the water changes through prayer in the True Church eastern orthodox: http://stmaryofstamford.org/holywater.html

For me I hope that Romano catholics have valid sacraments even if Holy water say that here the changes are TOO MUCH but why playing dice ? What if changes are too much at Eucharist for eternal life? Why should you nolt receive the prayers from Eastern orthodox Church when you depart. Why to be left alone because of false teachings?

When an Eastern orthodox Church went to Eastern catholicism and the priests prepare Holy Communion, wine become water. This was done to show maybe the displeasure with such departing.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 01:47:41 AM by pasadi97 » Logged
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2011, 09:51:18 AM »

Moving away from Eastern Orthodoxy can be considered sin. If you would come from Protestantism to Romano Catholicism, that is closer to God things would be different.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 09:51:40 AM by pasadi97 » Logged
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,831


WWW
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2011, 10:17:25 AM »

Clarification:
I am in no way saying anyone on this forum is wrong in any way. I wish mainly to write about my own experiences and how I am finding fulfillment in the Catholic Churhc. Maybe some have taken offense by me stating something, but I do not wish to call anyone wrong. In this transitional period, do I entertain maybe the orthodoxy of Orthodoxy, yes I do. But I have just lately felt so empowered by the writings of Pope John Paul II and St Josemaria Escriva and the works of St Jean Baptiste de la Salle of which I can find no other anywhere else.

Can you cite specific examples from these texts which question your conversion and dedication to Orthodox Christianity?
Logged
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,831


WWW
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2011, 10:19:33 AM »

The Greeks in our city are the parish that separates itself from the Antiochian and OCA parishes. During Lent, during co celebrations on Wednesday presanctified liturgies, the Greeks usually are not there. The Greeks in town aren't well integrated into the other 2 Orthodox Churches, yet they want to lead. The Greeks also didnt like it when an Antiochian parish moved into town as they were afraid of losing members.

Is your convert-itis because of the Greeks in your community?   Huh  Were there incidents where Greeks didn't make you feel at home?
Logged
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2011, 11:22:04 AM »

But I have just lately felt so empowered by the writings of Pope John Paul II and St Josemaria Escriva and the works of St Jean Baptiste de la Salle of which I can find no other anywhere else.

I must be feeling cranky - and so I ask you in advance to forgive me if I sound mean-spirited or critical (probably the heat) but I have to ask, empowered to do what?

And have you really read all the Fathers and Orthodox writers? Seriously?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 11:22:32 AM by katherineofdixie » Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2011, 12:51:08 PM »

Correction:
Catholics have prayers for the dead as prescribed in Maccabees. They even have an All Souls Day in November where the dead are prayed for and remembered. In my culture, people set up altars with pictures of their departed relatives and they are prayed for.
Logged
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2011, 01:20:21 PM »

Katherine of Dixie:
No worries, you haven't been mean spirited or cranky. I understand; I need to apologize if I sound polemical or divisive and behaving in behaviors not becoming a saint. I haven't read all the Church Fathers, that would probably take an eternity, but I have read a lot about them and synoposes of what they wrote. But why stop at the Church Fathers, the Church lived on into modern times and there are many great writings of Catholic holy people from th date of separation 1054 AD to the present. Pope John Paul II was an accomplished theologian and St Josemaria Escriva taught about the holiness in everyday life (not just confined to priesthood or monasticism). Even before I had doubts on Orthodoxy, I still read St Josemaria. I figured that not only the Catholic Church, but the Catholic individual has to breathe with two lungs. As a Catholic I will be endeared to the Orthodox phase I went through and pray the Jesus prayer (as it is also a catholic prayer)  and revere the eastern Catholic/Orthodox Saints like St Mary and Sarah of Egypt.
Logged
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2011, 01:22:07 PM »

I am empowered to live my life as a calling (the universal calling of everyone) to be a saint and live my life like a saint.
Logged
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2011, 03:06:45 PM »

But if you don't immerse yourself in Orthodox authors/writers, how can you know that you will not be similarly empowered by them?

It's an unfair comparison, especially since you are, I believe, fairly new to Orthodoxy.
All this seems to be based, forgive me again, only on your "feelings" or how something makes you "feel." Feelings are by definition and nature transitory - we should be careful of trusting them only.
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2011, 03:25:59 PM »

Immersion in Orthodox Writers:
Post Separation/Schism: I have read Bishop Kallistos Ware. He is a holy man and brought a fresh approach to me in loving God & neighbor. I read 3 volumes of his work. Church Fathers pre 1054 AD in Orthodoxy are also Catholic authors. My priest in Orthodoxy suggested I not read the Philokalia. I still have an abridged copy of it though. I have read the Way of the Pilgrim and nothing about it is contradictory towards Catholicism, in fact the Catholics have an edition of it, the one I read first, with an intro by a Jesuit priest. What Orthodox authors are out there besides the Fathers & Bishop Ware? Any suggestions? I know of Frederica Mathewes-Greene, but any writings from Saints in Orthodoxy post 1054? I know of St Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain and Gregory Palamas, but that is about it. And they wrote mainly of monasticism. After I finish reading a trilogy by the Catholic St. Josemaria Escriva, I plan on reading St Francis de Sales's (Catholic) Finding God's Wll For You. I could go on ad infinitum about Catholic authors pist schism, but I iwll possibly save that for later. Again, any suggestions for Orthodox authors to read?
Logged
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2011, 03:30:30 PM »

PS: I also read Father Alexander Schmemann's Great Lent.
Logged
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2011, 04:11:46 PM »

What Orthodox authors are out there besides the Fathers & Bishop Ware?

I think you've just made my point, honey!

There are several threads on suggestions for books to read.
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2011, 04:42:03 PM »

Let me repeat again.

A muslim can feed 1 billion people , can put ten scrafs on her head and can pray 15 hours a day and because is not baptised can go to Hell. Isaia felt very Holy he saw God and spoke with God and went to Hell for hundred+ years until Jesus rescued him. ******************Jesus is not called savior because he brought better teachings, better feeling inside Church , better works, he is called savior because he brought SACRAMENTS, BAPTISM for entrance to heaven , Holy Eucharist for eternal life , confession for erasing sins ********************

So you say if I feel holy and I feel I do my share of work I am on the right path and I say after you have valid sacraments that were changed a lot in Catholicism and in Protestantism many dissapearing . If you don't have valid sacraments you can be holier like Isaiah and do works like King David.So again, Eastern Orthodox Church has sacraments as in Early Church and because opf changes changes you play dice even if you feel Holy like Isaiah or do wroks like King David

SO MY DEAR, FIND THE BEST SACRAMENTS and after that do best work.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 04:44:07 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
jah777
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,975


« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2011, 04:48:09 PM »

It is good to read the lives of saints in particular.  There are, of course, many books of a polemical nature by former Roman Catholics who joined Orthodoxy after coming to believe that Roman Catholicism is not the true Church and lacks the grace found only in Orthodoxy.  There are also many stories of Eastern Rite Catholics who said they were not able to properly pray the Jesus Prayer or grow spiritually until they actually entered the Orthodox Church.  A lot of modern Orthodox writers should be ignored because they do not have the consciousness of the Fathers.

Regarding lives of saint, read for instance the lives of Elders of Optina or of St. Paisius (Velichkovsky) which can be obtained from here:

http://stherman.com/

These saints all wrote against Roman Catholicism, but you should not avoid them for this reason.  Rather, you should see how these God-bearing men were true dwelling places of the Holy Spirit and treasure troves of virtue.  You should see how God enlightened these men and revealed a great many spiritual mysteries to them.  You should see what kind of saints and what kind of holy men spoke against Roman Catholicism so sharply.  For instance, in a letter from St. Paisius to and Eastern Rite Catholic priest, he said that the priest must enter the Orthodox Church and should not delay, lest death overtake him and he be counted among the unbelievers.  St. Paisius read and translated the Fathers, canons, and services books continuously, and within himself the patristic spirit.  You mentioned St. Nikodemos of the Holy Mountain, another holy man who knew, lived, and breathed the Fathers and the holy canons.  St. Nikodemos, in a commentary on the canons of the Holy Apostles, stated:

Quote
So, it being admitted that the Latins are heretics of long standing, it is evident in the very first place from this fact that they are unbaptized, in accordance with the assertions of St. Basil the Great above cited, and of the saints preceding him named Cyprian and Firmilian. Because, having become laymen as a result of their having been cut off from the Orthodox Church, they no longer have with them the grace of the Holy Spirit with which Orthodox priests perform the mysteries.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/stnikodemos_latinbaptism.aspx

See the link for the entire excerpt and learn about the man who wrote these words, and the basis for his assertions, which he provides.  If you read the Orthodox saints and their lives you will see the patristic spirit, the spirit of the Fathers, the spirit of the Apostles, the mind of Christ.  You will see what they said about the heresies of Roman Catholicism which deprive so many of salvation.  Even after reading such things, you may wish to ignore it all and do whatever you like, but it would be irresponsible to not point these things out to you.   




Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,975


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2011, 04:58:58 PM »

Correction:
Catholics have prayers for the dead as prescribed in Maccabees. They even have an All Souls Day in November where the dead are prayed for and remembered. In my culture, people set up altars with pictures of their departed relatives and they are prayed for.

As do the Orthodox.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2011, 05:11:59 PM »

To show the validity of sacrament in Eastern Orthodoxy look here:
Angels comming to sing to orthodox Holy Liturgy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEAgEJqsp0o&feature=channel_video_title
Would they sing to something bad?
Orthodox comming up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyBDs8JpEa8&feature=channel_video_title
Holy light comes to eastern orthodox, Jordan river retuirns to Eastern Orthodox.

Whatever you need, beside valid sacraments, if it is fellowship or others , or good books, or good works, pray and you'll get them.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 05:12:36 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2011, 05:14:25 PM »

Holy Water is prepared by asking God, Holy Spirit to transform the water, and look what happens after the prayer to God to bless the water:
http://stmaryofstamford.org/holywater.html

Jesus can give you both eternal life and entrance to heaven and forgiveness of sins and closest to Jesus, you are in Eastern Orthodox Church, yje Church started in year 33 at Jerusalem that today is Eastern orthodox along with all the Churches in the Bible beside Rome. Ephess --> orthodox, Corinth->Orthopdox, say it besie Rome and in Bible-> Orthodox.

If you want to be closest to Jesus and love Jesus from all your hearth, you will come to Eastern orthodox Church, even if you have some problems, do it for Jesus, to be close to him.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 05:26:57 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2011, 05:15:31 PM »

I've never seen any Orthodox Hospitals in America, nothing like the Christian Brothers of St Jean Baptiste de la Salle who are brothers who teach in schools as part of their calling in Orthodoxy, no big presence of Orthodox in my ancestral country Mexico, not even in my mother's city of Monterrey, a city as large or larger than Greater Boston is there an Orthodox Church. There is no Orthodox St Josemaria Escriva or anything like Opus Dei. The fruits of Catholicism are immense and one cannot deny them. Where is the Orthodox Mother St Elizabeth Seton who pioneered Catholic parochial schools when Catholicism was so small in America? If St Jean Baptiste de la Salle, St Josemaria Escriva, St Elizabeth Ann Seton, St Francis de Sales, St Giuseppe Moscati, St. Juan Diego, Blessed Miguel Pro, the martyrs of Mexico during the Mexican Revolution, Blessed Isidore Bakanja, St. Josephin Bakhita of Sudan, Mother Teresa of Calcutta, St Dominic Savio (where is the Orthodox him?) and et al are somewhere that is where I want to be.
Logged
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,831


WWW
« Reply #82 on: June 29, 2011, 05:22:42 PM »

I've never seen any Orthodox Hospitals in America, nothing like the Christian Brothers of St Jean Baptiste de la Salle who are brothers who teach in schools as part of their calling in Orthodoxy, no big presence of Orthodox in my ancestral country Mexico, not even in my mother's city of Monterrey, a city as large or larger than Greater Boston is there an Orthodox Church. There is no Orthodox St Josemaria Escriva or anything like Opus Dei. The fruits of Catholicism are immense and one cannot deny them. Where is the Orthodox Mother St Elizabeth Seton who pioneered Catholic parochial schools when Catholicism was so small in America? If St Jean Baptiste de la Salle, St Josemaria Escriva, St Elizabeth Ann Seton, St Francis de Sales, St Giuseppe Moscati, St. Juan Diego, Blessed Miguel Pro, the martyrs of Mexico during the Mexican Revolution, Blessed Isidore Bakanja, St. Josephin Bakhita of Sudan, Mother Teresa of Calcutta, St Dominic Savio (where is the Orthodox him?) and et al are somewhere that is where I want to be.

You got to be kidding.   Shocked

You're looking for one-to-one correlations between Orthodox and Catholic Holy People.  You're looking for an Orthodox equivalent to St. Elizabeth Ann Seton when there was no widespread Orthodox Christian witness in the United States of America?   Huh
Logged
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2011, 05:28:10 PM »

There is a widespread witness now, and still nothing like Mother Seton in Orthodoxy nor anywhere in the world.
Logged
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #84 on: June 29, 2011, 05:33:26 PM »

Fruit of Romano Catholicism:
Changing Holy Communion thus putting into jeopardy eternal life for 1 billion people.
Changing Holy Water process thus taking from people pure Holy Water.
Changing Mass thus MAYBE putting people attending into jeopardy.

My congratulations to Mother Teresa.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 05:39:00 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #85 on: June 29, 2011, 05:34:35 PM »

If Romano Catholicism send 1 billion people to Hell , which I believe it does not and feeds 1 billion and Eastern orthdoox send to heaven one billion people and feeds 100 000, who is better.

I say it again, look at sacraments FIRST.

If you love Mexico and believe that Mexico has the right to have BEST holy Communion and sacraments, then Mexico nmeeds Eastern orthodox Church. What do you think about this man? http://www.greekorthodoxmonastery.org/Texts%20from%20others/FOOL%20OF%20CHRIST.html

« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 05:43:42 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
stjustinmartyrorthodox
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 27



« Reply #86 on: June 29, 2011, 05:35:45 PM »

No you all are supposedly putting people into jeopardy by not evaneglizing. You all sit there and criticize but do nothing. How Pharisaical! The Catholic Church feeds the hungry and shelters the ill. Read about some Catholic Saints and you will see Jesus in the Catholic Church.
Logged
IsmiLiora
Chronic Exaggerator
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: One step closer!
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (GOA)
Posts: 3,434


Back by unpopular demand.


« Reply #87 on: June 29, 2011, 05:44:35 PM »

My congratulations to Mother Teresa.
Okay, THAT'S not fair.
Logged

She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
--
"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18
--
I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --
Life went on no matter who was wrong or right
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #88 on: June 29, 2011, 05:47:27 PM »

I agree that we have beter move ourself and start evangelizing. You go to Church SO YOU GO TO HEAVEN. YOU GO TO CHURCH FOR SACRAMENTS. If YOU WANT TO DO GOOD YOU CAN learn from every book you want. Who stops youn in Eastern orthodox Church to be like Mother Teresa? Or like this man, 1 MAN and see what he has done: http://www.greekorthodoxmonastery.org/Texts%20from%20others/FOOL%20OF%20CHRIST.html

Eastern orthodox Church is the bariccade that keeps for humanity the door to HEAVEN AND ETERNAL LIFE. You want to join the fight, it is your call. You want to desert the fight and go to other place, it is your call to. Just so you know, in heaven there is no iconoclasm thus no Protestantism, and No Romano catholicism, however in heaven there is Eastern Orthodox Church with head Jesus.

Just so you know,in the end, Romano Catholicism will come back to eastern orthodoxy.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 06:05:49 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,975


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #89 on: June 29, 2011, 05:52:26 PM »

No you all are supposedly putting people into jeopardy by not evaneglizing. You all sit there and criticize but do nothing. How Pharisaical! The Catholic Church feeds the hungry and shelters the ill. Read about some Catholic Saints and you will see Jesus in the Catholic Church.

Now who is being judgmental? I think you're also myopic. The Orthodox feed the hungry and shelter the ill. Always have. You cannot claim the Roman Catholic Church is different by citing the ways it actually does the same things as the Orthodox Church. You have not looked, and so do not see.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
SolEX01
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of New Jersey
Posts: 11,831


WWW
« Reply #90 on: June 29, 2011, 06:03:31 PM »

There is a widespread witness now, and still nothing like Mother Seton in Orthodoxy nor anywhere in the world.

So?  There are modern female Saints in the Orthodox Faith who didn't accomplish what St. Elizabeth Ann Seton accomplished in a nascent Roman Catholic Church in the USA.
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,975


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #91 on: June 29, 2011, 06:06:01 PM »

We don't have an equivalent to Pope Gregory VII. I think that's a very good thing.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #92 on: June 29, 2011, 06:10:41 PM »

Let me repeat.

Jesus came in year 33 and brought to humanity entrance to heaven through baptism and eternal life through Holy Communion and erasing sins through confession and .... many more. The sick angel started the contrarevolution at the beginning by modifying sacraments thus MAYBE sending more to Hell and in the end by renouncing sacraments and naming the new organizations Churches To lure people to new organizations he did the visible Christian works while raising barricades to Eastern Orthodoxy. Many Protestant denominations do so much good however by renouncing baptism its members are sent to Hell so in the end is devil victorious or Jesus? Do you see how much evil is in modyfying the sacraments or renouncing them and I don't blame people for this?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 06:23:46 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
Volnutt
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Protestant Universalist
Posts: 3,701



« Reply #93 on: June 29, 2011, 06:11:15 PM »

Angels comming to sing to orthodox Holy Liturgy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEAgEJqsp0o&feature=channel_video_title
Would they sing to something bad?
Sounds like a bag full of cats, I would expect angels to not be so ear-piercing... but what do I know...

To repeat someone's comment on the video, has this ever been analyzed by Church authorities?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 06:11:30 PM by Volnutt » Logged

Herr Jesus Christus, Sohns Gottes, erbarme dich meiner, eines Suenders.
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #94 on: June 29, 2011, 06:22:07 PM »

Lets pray for Romano Catholics to come to sacraments like in Early Church and for Protestantism to put back sacraments and both to join the Church established by Jesus.

We love Mexicans. Maybe Holy Communion with unleavened bread will not harm them too much, when apostles gave Holy Communion with both wine and leavened bread. Maybe this will not stole their eternal life like probably in Protestantism that had renounced Holy Communion all together. I think it is good for you to want to do good. Congratulations.

I think I have several movies in orthodoxy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkZwPgirvv8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJHRCZUul7s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztq8-Foit-c
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 06:56:18 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #95 on: June 29, 2011, 07:26:29 PM »

In a hypotetical world in which Mother Teresa would be muslim and all the people you love would be muslims, would you become muslim.

I am asking because you don't love these people because they fought for the right belief and Sacraments but because they fed people which muslims cand do too
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 07:34:36 PM by pasadi97 » Logged
Nero
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 115



« Reply #96 on: June 29, 2011, 07:44:58 PM »

I've never seen any Orthodox Hospitals in America, nothing like the Christian Brothers of St Jean Baptiste de la Salle who are brothers who teach in schools as part of their calling in Orthodoxy, no big presence of Orthodox in my ancestral country Mexico, not even in my mother's city of Monterrey, a city as large or larger than Greater Boston is there an Orthodox Church. There is no Orthodox St Josemaria Escriva or anything like Opus Dei. The fruits of Catholicism are immense and one cannot deny them. Where is the Orthodox Mother St Elizabeth Seton who pioneered Catholic parochial schools when Catholicism was so small in America? If St Jean Baptiste de la Salle, St Josemaria Escriva, St Elizabeth Ann Seton, St Francis de Sales, St Giuseppe Moscati, St. Juan Diego, Blessed Miguel Pro, the martyrs of Mexico during the Mexican Revolution, Blessed Isidore Bakanja, St. Josephin Bakhita of Sudan, Mother Teresa of Calcutta, St Dominic Savio (where is the Orthodox him?) and et al are somewhere that is where I want to be.

There have been scores of holy people in Orthodox-dominated countries - you don't see that though, because orthodoxy is not the biggest on the statistics here. Instead Roman Catholicism is the largest denomination, and therefore, they get more publicity.

There are Orthodox in Mexico, and Orthodox charities - research Project Mexico, which is building homes for poor and running an orphanage in Tijuana.

Opus Dei, btw, is commonly referred to as a cult. I had a great, intelligent, easy-going Catholic friend who got involved with them, and was mentally never the same.
Logged
Nero
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 115



« Reply #97 on: June 29, 2011, 07:58:25 PM »

Also, I don't mean to judge at all, but you should make sure that the reasons you want to leave Orthodoxy / rejoin Catholicism are large, serious problems and not small inconveniences. Above all, be honest to yourself. Saying "Well I see more social work in Catholicism, and the parish is closer, so I can't be orthodox now, and I'm completely justified in going back to Catholicism because it couldn't be any other way" may be deceiving yourself. People do this with other issues in order to justify immoral actions (I know I have in the past). But in the end, you will truly know if what you're doing is right or just making an excuse.

I'm in the process of converting to Orthodoxy because I do believe it is the true religion and where I can grow the most in Christ. I've been making excuses for why I should stay in Catholicism because it would be easier than converting: "Oh, this woman said I'd make a great Priest. I should stay Catholic" - "How would I tell all my friends and parishioners that I'm leaving their religion?" - "It would be so much easier if I went to Catholic seminary, because the parish would pay for it. I should stay Catholic." But in the end I know that none of these matter. Christ is everything.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 08:04:54 PM by Nero » Logged
Volnutt
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Protestant Universalist
Posts: 3,701



« Reply #98 on: June 29, 2011, 09:27:17 PM »

I'm in the process of converting to Orthodoxy because I do believe it is the true religion and where I can grow the most in Christ. I've been making excuses for why I should stay in Catholicism because it would be easier than converting: "Oh, this woman said I'd make a great Priest. I should stay Catholic" - "How would I tell all my friends and parishioners that I'm leaving their religion?" - "It would be so much easier if I went to Catholic seminary, because the parish would pay for it. I should stay Catholic." But in the end I know that none of these matter. Christ is everything.
I just want to say, I admire your bravery and dedication to Christ.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 09:27:38 PM by Volnutt » Logged

Herr Jesus Christus, Sohns Gottes, erbarme dich meiner, eines Suenders.
Sleeper
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,267

On hiatus for the foreseeable future.


« Reply #99 on: June 29, 2011, 11:56:09 PM »

Angels comming to sing to orthodox Holy Liturgy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEAgEJqsp0o&feature=channel_video_title
Would they sing to something bad?
Sounds like a bag full of cats,
laugh  laugh   laugh laugh  laugh   laugh laugh  laugh
Logged
Volnutt
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Protestant Universalist
Posts: 3,701



« Reply #100 on: June 30, 2011, 12:15:06 AM »

Justin, http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,37506.msg593287/boardseen.html#new
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 12:15:18 AM by Volnutt » Logged

Herr Jesus Christus, Sohns Gottes, erbarme dich meiner, eines Suenders.
thefizzle656
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 44



« Reply #101 on: June 30, 2011, 12:31:14 AM »

Angels comming to sing to orthodox Holy Liturgy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEAgEJqsp0o&feature=channel_video_title
Would they sing to something bad?
Sounds like a bag full of cats, I would expect angels to not be so ear-piercing... but what do I know...

To repeat someone's comment on the video, has this ever been analyzed by Church authorities?

The is the first time that I have ever heard that recording.  After the first ten seconds or so I had to turn it off, for some reason listening to it makes me feel incredibly uneasy, it is really quite eerie.  As someone else said, angels aren't the only ones who can sing in empty churches...
Logged
Volnutt
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Protestant Universalist
Posts: 3,701



« Reply #102 on: June 30, 2011, 12:42:05 AM »

I just read that Monachos thread actually.

I'd rather believe it's a hoax than that Mount Athos is haunted lol. But yeah, it's a bit weird.
Logged

Herr Jesus Christus, Sohns Gottes, erbarme dich meiner, eines Suenders.
thefizzle656
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 44



« Reply #103 on: June 30, 2011, 12:47:10 AM »

Except for that Monachos.net thread I couldn't find anything else related to the recording.  It could certainly be a hoax, whatever it is I don't think that it is legit.  It would be easy for anybody these days to take a recording and mess around with it on their own computer.  But I wasn't talking about "ghosts", I meant demons. 
Logged
Volnutt
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Protestant Universalist
Posts: 3,701



« Reply #104 on: June 30, 2011, 12:55:27 AM »

Except for that Monachos.net thread I couldn't find anything else related to the recording.  It could certainly be a hoax, whatever it is I don't think that it is legit.  It would be easy for anybody these days to take a recording and mess around with it on their own computer.
It is, yes. I found a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N01uDWa_1DI Supposed to this popular Greek singer singing the melody, which is apparently just the Cherubic Hymn in Greek... so who knows if the videos are really related lol.

But I wasn't talking about "ghosts", I meant demons. 
Me too. The word haunted can be used interchangeably.
Logged

Herr Jesus Christus, Sohns Gottes, erbarme dich meiner, eines Suenders.
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #105 on: June 30, 2011, 07:39:14 AM »

I can not throw rocks since I was in a similar dilema. Comming to US and seeing the amount of work Protestantism does with poor i did think God is in Protestantism and I reasoned if God is in Protestantism what am I doing in Orthodoxy.

However for conversion I was not sure which one of 30 000 or I don't know how many denominations is best, so I was not sure where is the truth. You can not believe in the same time that babies can be baptised , and can not be baptised as truth. You have to decide. You can not believe in the same time that Saturday is rest day and Sunday is error and at the same time believe that Sunday is the rest day and Saturday is not.

So I had trouble discerning THE TRUTH. So I prayed to God. And a tought came saying, Eastern orthodox Church is best path to salvation and this is why I am sending Holy Light there. So I knew at that moment where the truth is and I did not convert anymore.

The falacy I did was not knowing the value of Sacraments that would give a place in heaven and give back eternal life and that I was looking for visible signs instead of looking for important thing. 

Jesus is SAVIOR because he brought the sacraments. Is not that before Jesus people did not do feeding the poor. They did. Is not that people did not have wisdom before that. Have you read Solomon, Ecleziste? They had wisdom. OHoooo, read Solomon and see trucks of wisdom. Oceans of wisdom. That was not enough .

JESUS IS SAVIOR BECAUSE HE OPEN THE PATH TO HEAVEN THROUGH BAPTISM.

St John Chrysostom says, that BEFORE JESUS HEAVEN WAS CLOSED FOR 5000 YEARS.

Was Heaven closed because Isaiah did not feed the poor. Because King David was not righteous and because King solomon was not wise? NO. BECAUSE BAPTISM DID NOT EXIST. BECAUSE THE SAVIOR DID NOT COME.  When Church name Jesus as Savior , is because Jesus is savior from Hell and DEATHHHHHH.

Yes God is what it matters and taking the valid sacraments too. Any time that challanges appear , pray to God to find a solution for you and to give you what you miss, like fellowship and others.

Is it wise to renounce DIAMOND sacraments for felowship, good work and good books and wisdom? NO.
Is it wise to trade entrance to Heaven and Eternal Life for felowship, good work and good books and wisdom? NO.
MAY GOD FORBID US FROM DOING THIS AND PROTECT US FROM DOING THIS. FROM LOSING BEST SACRAMENTS IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.
Please think again. One King would give sacks of gold for ONE HOUR OF LIFE. What can you put that could equal ETERNAL LIFE given to you by HOly COmmunion?

One King would give sacks of gold for several hours of eternal life. Protestantism renounced hours, days, years, tens, hundreds,infinite number of years for his people and how evil is this and helping the poor would make Protestantism right?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 07:57:28 AM by pasadi97 » Logged
pasadi97
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 572


« Reply #106 on: June 30, 2011, 08:30:07 AM »

God was with Adam, Abraham, Isaiah, King David, God was in Judaism and God is where two people pray in the name of Jesus. God can be in many religions.

So to say God is in this religion, this does not make the religion best.

If you are interested in HEAVEN and ETERNAL LIFE, God gave to you the sacraments. So lets suppose God is in 10 religions and one religion has good sacraments what help can you have if you are in this life in fellowship of God and then removed from God in hell in the other life because of lack of sacraments?
Logged
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #107 on: June 30, 2011, 09:24:32 AM »

I've never seen any Orthodox Hospitals in America, nothing like the Christian Brothers of St Jean Baptiste de la Salle who are brothers who teach in schools as part of their calling in Orthodoxy, no big presence of Orthodox in my ancestral country Mexico, not even in my mother's city of Monterrey, a city as large or larger than Greater Boston is there an Orthodox Church. There is no Orthodox St Josemaria Escriva or anything like Opus Dei. The fruits of Catholicism are immense and one cannot deny them. Where is the Orthodox Mother St Elizabeth Seton who pioneered Catholic parochial schools when Catholicism was so small in America? If St Jean Baptiste de la Salle, St Josemaria Escriva, St Elizabeth Ann Seton, St Francis de Sales, St Giuseppe Moscati, St. Juan Diego, Blessed Miguel Pro, the martyrs of Mexico during the Mexican Revolution, Blessed Isidore Bakanja, St. Josephin Bakhita of Sudan, Mother Teresa of Calcutta, St Dominic Savio (where is the Orthodox him?) and et al are somewhere that is where I want to be.

Ever heard of the Ottoman Empire? Communism?

Look, if you want to be RC, be RC. But you know so little about Orthodoxy, that you are probably not able to make an informed decision.

Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #108 on: June 30, 2011, 09:26:04 AM »

You all sit there and criticize but do nothing. How Pharisaical!

Pot, meet kettle.
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
TheodoraElizabeth3
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 342


« Reply #109 on: June 30, 2011, 01:58:15 PM »

My response:

Grand Duchess Elizabeth, the Russian New Martyr. But then, I doubt the OP has even heard of her.

Or the three nuns at the Rafael Ayau orphanage in Guatemala, who are raising children with the orphanage as their home since the Guatemala government now forbids foreign adoptions. These nuns were Catholic, but converted to Orthodoxy some years back. They not only became Orthodox and began running the orphanage at the same time, but as their bishop said, they also established the Orthodox Church's presence in Guatemala. Doubt OP has heard of this either.

Or FOCUS North America, an pan-Orthodox charitable group which has chapters throughout the country and is helping people long-term, rather than just a bed and a meal. But I'm sure the OP hasn't heard of this organization, either.

OP, if you want to go back to being Catholic, so be it. I was raised Catholic, and there's no freakin' way I'd go back. You have the riches of Orthodoxy and you'd rather go back to that?
Logged
Nero
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 115



« Reply #110 on: June 30, 2011, 09:23:18 PM »

I'm in the process of converting to Orthodoxy because I do believe it is the true religion and where I can grow the most in Christ. I've been making excuses for why I should stay in Catholicism because it would be easier than converting: "Oh, this woman said I'd make a great Priest. I should stay Catholic" - "How would I tell all my friends and parishioners that I'm leaving their religion?" - "It would be so much easier if I went to Catholic seminary, because the parish would pay for it. I should stay Catholic." But in the end I know that none of these matter. Christ is everything.
I just want to say, I admire your bravery and dedication to Christ.

Thank you - as St. Paul said, the benefits are absolutely beyond compare to the little problems along the way.
Logged
Volnutt
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Protestant Universalist
Posts: 3,701



« Reply #111 on: June 30, 2011, 09:40:32 PM »

Very true.
Logged

Herr Jesus Christus, Sohns Gottes, erbarme dich meiner, eines Suenders.
Volnutt
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Protestant Universalist
Posts: 3,701



« Reply #112 on: July 02, 2011, 12:12:01 AM »

stjustinmartyrorthodox, you might want to check out ancient faith radio. There's a podcast on Orthodox prison ministry here in the US. Very important.
Logged

Herr Jesus Christus, Sohns Gottes, erbarme dich meiner, eines Suenders.
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,485



« Reply #113 on: July 05, 2011, 11:15:58 AM »

stjustinmartyrorthodox, you might want to check out ancient faith radio. There's a podcast on Orthodox prison ministry here in the US. Very important.

Or pm me. My husband's on the board of Orthodox Christian Prison Ministry.
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #114 on: July 06, 2011, 11:34:18 AM »

stjustinmartyrorthodox, you might want to check out ancient faith radio. There's a podcast on Orthodox prison ministry here in the US. Very important.

I haven't heard that particular podcast, but AFR seems to be a splendid resource. (Lately I've been listening to some episodes of The Illumined Heart.)
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Volnutt
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Protestant Universalist
Posts: 3,701



« Reply #115 on: July 06, 2011, 12:15:13 PM »

stjustinmartyrorthodox, you might want to check out ancient faith radio. There's a podcast on Orthodox prison ministry here in the US. Very important.

I haven't heard that particular podcast, but AFR seems to be a splendid resource. (Lately I've been listening to some episodes of The Illumined Heart.)
It's still on the front page.
Logged

Herr Jesus Christus, Sohns Gottes, erbarme dich meiner, eines Suenders.
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 3 All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.315 seconds with 142 queries.