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Author Topic: Is Freemasonry "evil"?  (Read 11549 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: June 22, 2011, 07:00:05 AM »

I met one today, seemed to talk a lot about it as a "society of secrets" not a "secret society". Made it sound like a Lions/Rotary type organisation attributing to charitable causes and to each other.

From what he said anyone with any influence in society is a member and they mutually assist one another financially, legally etc. This guy was also going on about how he owned 10 properties and got everything he wanted because he was in the club.

The thing i didn't like was the impression he gave me that Freemasons operate at a level over and above everyone else.

I've heard the conspiracy theories but do tell me what you think is is wrong with FM.
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2011, 09:17:48 AM »

There will probably be a lot of varied responses here. I've heard everything from "they're a moden-day mystery religion" to "they're just weird."

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle? Bottom line is that there is no secret, unrevealed truth. The fullness of faith, through the revelation of Christ, rests in the Church. There is no truth which has not been revealed to the Body of Christ. Groups that have "secrets" (be they a "secret society" or a "society of secrets"), therefore, are incompatible with Orthodox theology.

An Orthodox Christian cannot be a Free Mason. The same is true for Roman Catholics.
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2011, 03:11:04 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The simple answer, yes.



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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2011, 03:14:37 PM »

Masonry has alot of aspects that would consider it a mystery religion. I personally find it very disturbing and probably not a good thing.

I would say this in my own opinion, there's far more than meets the eye with them (not in a good way)

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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2011, 03:52:53 PM »

Quote
I would say this in my own opinion, there's far more than meets the eye with them (not in a good way)
Absolutely!
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 04:10:49 PM »

The greatest secret of the Freemasons is how they continue to get so much press despite their obvious irrelevance.

Mozart spilled all their secrets a long time ago in his Magic Flute for which he was murdered by, of course, Freemasons.
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 04:10:59 PM »

On a practical note, I'm just not sure how such a large group of people could keep their mouths shut for such a long time.
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2011, 04:13:06 PM »

On a practical note, I'm just not sure how such a large group of people could keep their mouths shut for such a long time.

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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2011, 04:37:57 PM »

I'm sure there are circles of them that run things, or whatever, but your average Joe Schmo Mason who runs the bake sale or volunteers at the hospital.  There are probably things in their religious teachings that are not kosher, but I honestly can't say too much as I have never been a Mason.
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« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2011, 04:52:58 PM »

After Dan Brown's book, The DaVincia Code became a movie, there were a lot of inaccurate statements about Jesus and Mary Magdalene and the painting the Last Supper.  The Lost Symbol is probably going to become a movie in 2012.  I think there is going to be a lot of inquiry about the freemasons at that point.
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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2011, 05:03:46 PM »

On a practical note, I'm just not sure how such a large group of people could keep their mouths shut for such a long time.


Where is everyone finding these awesome card graphics?
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2011, 05:08:58 PM »

The greatest secret of the Freemasons is how they continue to get so much press despite their obvious irrelevance.

This.  Modern Freemasons, while thrilled, have been unable to capitalize on it.
On a practical note, I'm just not sure how such a large group of people could keep their mouths shut for such a long time.
Too practical for this thread's potential.  Wink  Short answer is that they can't and they don't, just not much to see.  Fortunately, there are plenty of people who make up or believe all sorts of fascinating and unprovable rumors and conspiracies.

Personally, I've found most Freemasons in the Anglosphere to be pretty decent people.  There are various strains of Masonic teachings, e.g. general "Blue Lodge" Freemasonry (Judeo-Christian mixed with Classical and Enlightenment teachings), Scottish Rite (more Theosophical), York Rite (more "Christian"), Shriners (silliness), etc.  Many may be antiquated, unfounded, inaccurate, or incorrect, but I don't think most are evil.  Teachings that are frequently ascribed to Freemasons, on the other hand...
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 05:14:28 PM »

On a practical note, I'm just not sure how such a large group of people could keep their mouths shut for such a long time.


Where is everyone finding these awesome card graphics?

*I* am finding these awesome card graphics. It was a collectible card came from Steve Jackson Games. INWO: Illuminati New World Order. Fun and wildly irreverent. And perhaps involved in a conspiracy themselves. It was from the early 90s and we have this card:



Who knows the reach of the Masters We Serve . . .

EDIT: Since the board has gone loony toons on conspiracy lately, I am just enjoying some old time chuckles from times long past . . .

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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 08:10:12 PM »

I met one today, seemed to talk a lot about it as a "society of secrets" not a "secret society". Made it sound like a Lions/Rotary type organisation attributing to charitable causes and to each other.

From what he said anyone with any influence in society is a member and they mutually assist one another financially, legally etc. This guy was also going on about how he owned 10 properties and got everything he wanted because he was in the club.

The thing i didn't like was the impression he gave me that Freemasons operate at a level over and above everyone else.

I've heard the conspiracy theories but do tell me what you think is is wrong with FM.


While some, and I mean some, FM are Christian, most are self-serving egoists more interested in feathering their own nest.  Sure they hand out a few bucks to local charities but so what.

Freemasory, however, is evil because it uses God for its own ideological benefits.    

I know as I was FM and it is apparent that the lip service given to God is little more than a not-so-cleaver guise for otherwise questionably reasons.  I have never hear so much cursing of God as when I was with FMs.  Even when I was as a member of a bikie gang I would be hard pushed to hear the name of God used as curse on such a consistent basis.  

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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 08:12:08 PM »

The greatest secret of the Freemasons is how they continue to get so much press despite their obvious irrelevance.

Indeed.
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2011, 08:29:04 PM »

I think they like to sell it as a club. Plus the fact so many powerful, famous people have been masons draws others in. The success of it's members shows just how much they pat each other on the back and help out. The idea being if they infiltrate the highest echelons of society then they can control things; and that's where the conspiracies begin. Though if you're not a religion I'm not sure why you need an alter.
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EDIT: To answer, yes.  Smiley

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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2011, 08:32:48 PM »


*I* am finding these awesome card graphics. It was a collectible card came from Steve Jackson Games. INWO: Illuminati New World Order. Fun and wildly irreverent. And perhaps involved in a conspiracy themselves. It was from the early 90s and we have this card:
Um, my bad? I thought someone else had posted a card.

I do want to buy them and hang them on my wall
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« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2011, 08:51:14 PM »


*I* am finding these awesome card graphics. It was a collectible card came from Steve Jackson Games. INWO: Illuminati New World Order. Fun and wildly irreverent. And perhaps involved in a conspiracy themselves. It was from the early 90s and we have this card:
Um, my bad? I thought someone else had posted a card.

I do want to buy them and hang them on my wall

Oh some lame made up Godwin's Law card . . . Someone posted that, Schultzi, I think.

Oh, that I still had my INWO set.
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2011, 09:13:21 PM »

Freemasonry is opposed to Christianity because by design it views all religions as equal. To be a Mason one must profess belief in "God", whether that be the Trinity, the Islamic god, or whatever other god you can think of. To transcend religion like this is to render truth irrelevant.

And if an Orthodox person ever became a Freemason, he would be excommunicated (the same is true in a number of Protestant churches). So that tells you whether it's evil or not.
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« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2011, 09:35:11 PM »

I know as I was FM and it is apparent that the lip service given to God is little more than a not-so-cleaver guise for otherwise questionably reasons.  I have never hear so much cursing of God as when I was with FMs.  

Can you tell me what you mean by this?
Do you mean the term "God--mn"?
Or do you mean actually saying bad things about God?

They have different rites within them. I can imagine that some things go on in some places that don't in others.

My grandfather was in it. He thought of it as a social charity club. He became inactive at some point.
I heard they have some weird things, like oaths that the members get killed in bad ways if they tell the secrets.
They also have some religious ideas. I don't really know what they are though. Probably they mostly promote Unitarianism or Deism or something like that.
However, I would be interested in hearing about it from people have been in it.

Tolstoy wrote a short section on it in War and Peace, where he presented the Masons in Russia as largely composed of Westerners, like diplomats from European countries (this is around the 1812 war), and that they had some weird ceremony with a coffin, skull, and/or candle. It sounded like Tolstoy was presenting it like a social club with weird or made-up rituals.
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« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2011, 10:01:39 PM »

Freemasonry is opposed to Christianity because by design it views all religions as equal. To be a Mason one must profess belief in "God", whether that be the Trinity, the Islamic god, or whatever other god you can think of. To transcend religion like this is to render truth irrelevant.

And if an Orthodox person ever became a Freemason, he would be excommunicated (the same is true in a number of Protestant churches). So that tells you whether it's evil or not.
the same holds true for the Boy Scouts of America
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« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2011, 10:47:02 PM »

the same holds true for the Boy Scouts of America

The Boy Scouts of America requires scouts to believe in a higher power without defining what that is.  However, the BSA also encourages scouts to be faithful to the dictates of their own faith.  It also does not say all religions are equal, there is no syncretism.  It simply states scouts will respect the rights of other scouts to hold beliefs different from their own.  The BSA is endorsed by SCOBA and the Easter Orthodox Committee on Scouting is their liason.
http://eocs.org/
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2011, 11:20:34 PM »

the same holds true for the Boy Scouts of America

The Boy Scouts of America requires scouts to believe in a higher power without defining what that is.  However, the BSA also encourages scouts to be faithful to the dictates of their own faith.  It also does not say all religions are equal, there is no syncretism.  It simply states scouts will respect the rights of other scouts to hold beliefs different from their own.  The BSA is endorsed by SCOBA and the Easter Orthodox Committee on Scouting is their liason.
http://eocs.org/
my lack of knowledge rests on what the Masons believe then. could you(or someone in general) expand on what exactly the Masons believe in this regard, because from an outsiders, or at least my very own view, i could not tell what the difference was, as compared to the BSA, which im very familiar with(being involved in all aspects, from cub scouts through boy scouts and venturing, and as a new leader and eagle scout, not to mention the order of the arrow)
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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2011, 01:05:25 AM »

Yes, freemasons are luciferians.  Even Albert Pike said this in morals and dogma.  There is an excellent web site called freemasonrywatch.org that will have more info.
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2011, 01:51:15 AM »

the same holds true for the Boy Scouts of America
requires scouts to believe in a higher power without defining what that is...   also encourages scouts to be faithful to the dictates of their own faithIt also does not say all religions are equal, there is no syncretism.  It simply states scouts will respect the rights of other scouts to hold beliefs different from their own.  The BSA is endorsed by SCOBA and the Easter Orthodox Committee on Scouting is their liason.
http://eocs.org/
my lack of knowledge rests on what the Masons believe then. could you(or someone in general) expand on what exactly the Masons believe in this regard, because from an outsiders, or at least my very own view, i could not tell what the difference was, as compared to the BSA, which im very familiar with(being involved in all aspects, from cub scouts through boy scouts and venturing, and as a new leader and eagle scout, not to mention the order of the arrow)

As to what Masons individually believe, I cannot attest, but their teachings include statements very similar to the bold print above.
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« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2011, 01:52:53 AM »

O.K. Here is the silly question of the thread:  Why are they called freemasons and not just masons?
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2011, 02:02:50 AM »

And if an Orthodox person ever became a Freemason, he would be excommunicated (the same is true in a number of Protestant churches). So that tells you whether it's evil or not.

Is this accurate within the States?  I know of quite a few Square and Compasses on Orthodox headstones in Orthodox graveyards.
It's an honest question.  I urge that responders not rush to judge or slander the deceased.

I'm not arguing for Freemasonry, but rabid Protestant Fundies banning it does not settle the matter.  I'm certain they would ban St. Athanasius as well.
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2011, 02:15:52 AM »

O.K. Here is the silly question of the thread:  Why are they called freemasons and not just masons?

Not silly at all, really.  I'm not entirely sure if they actually know the origin, but I think now it's viewed as helpful in distinguishing between speculative and operative (actual stone working) masons.

Something along the line of a level of freedom of craft attained by a mason, wherefore they would no longer be limited to one type of stone job or one employer.  The "Free" portion now has a dual use of being associated with Enlightenment era freedom. 
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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2011, 02:59:54 AM »

O.K. Here is the silly question of the thread:  Why are they called freemasons and not just masons?
Not a silly question. Freemason is an old medieval guild term denoting a mason who is allowed to travel as a journeyman to find employment in his building trade. In order to work in another town, city, country, he had to present his credentials at the local guild lodge (be examined) and thus vetted to work there.
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2011, 03:16:00 AM »

Not a silly question. Freemason is an old medieval guild term denoting a mason who is allowed to travel as a journeyman to find employment in his building trade. In order to work in another town, city, country, he had to present his credentials at the local guild lodge (be examined) and thus vetted to work there.

The crazy thing is 95% of Freemason would not this - they are pretty dumb lot really.
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« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2011, 03:20:12 AM »


Can you tell me what you mean by this?
Do you mean the term "God--mn"?
Or do you mean actually saying bad things about God?

What they do is use the Bible as a base for their rituals but in praxis they pay no heed to God or Jesus.  In other words, they use God for their own purpose.  It's a 'feel good' thing but make no real commitment to God. 
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« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2011, 03:51:35 AM »

Not a silly question. Freemason is an old medieval guild term denoting a mason who is allowed to travel as a journeyman to find employment in his building trade. In order to work in another town, city, country, he had to present his credentials at the local guild lodge (be examined) and thus vetted to work there.

The crazy thing is 95% of Freemason would not this - they are pretty dumb lot really.

I wouldn't be so certain about that. Being as secretive as they are supposed to be, I doubt many would even admit to knowing this basic teaching from the first degree (Entered Apprentice) of Freemasonry.
For a good look at what could be wrong with the fraternity read War and Peace by Lev Tolstoi. Pierre goes overboard with it. And one can get a good grasp as to why the Russian Church still refuses to rehabilitate the author
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« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2011, 06:03:22 AM »

I wouldn't be so certain about that.

I am.  FM know next to nothing about the history of the organization.  There are some who do study its history but these are few and far between. 

I don't need to read 'what's wrong with FM' to know what's wrong - it's evil.
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« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2011, 09:13:56 AM »

A side, but related question from me is if Freemasonry is evil what about other fraternal organizations which are virtually identical but about which the Church is silent such as the Odd Fellows?
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« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2011, 12:14:48 PM »

those fellows are quite odd.
seriously though, they are a bit like FMs and should be avoided by all Christians.
as for the original subject, i have met people from that group and at higher levels they do rituals and sacrifice animals and swear allegiance to one another and bind themselves with curses if they fail to do as they promise.

it is really not very different to pagan religions. the reasons not all churches condemn it is because in many countries there is heavy infiltration of the main churches (including orthodox) with FM.
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« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2011, 04:42:56 PM »

Yes, freemasons are luciferians.  Even Albert Pike said this in morals and dogma.  There is an excellent web site called freemasonrywatch.org that will have more info.

I have read Morals and Dogma and never once found where Pike said anything of the sort.
From Morals and Dogma, first instance of lucifer found below.
Quote
Hypocrisy is the homage that vice and wrong pay to virtue and justice. It is Satan
attempting to clothe himself in the angelic vesture of light. It is equally detestable in
morals, politics, and religion; in the man and in the nation. To do injustice under the
pretence of equity and fairness; to reprove vice in public and commit it in private; to
pretend to charitable opinion and censoriously condemn; to profess the principles of
Masonic beneficence, and close the ear to the wail of distress and the cry of suffering; to
eulogize the intelligence of the people, and plot to deceive and betray them by means of
their ignorance and simplicity; to prate of purity, and peculate; of honor, and basely
abandon a sinking cause; of disinterestedness, and sell one's vote for place and power, are
hypocrisies as common as they are infamous and disgraceful. To steal the livery of the
Court of God to serve the Devil withal; to pretend to believe in a God of mercy and a
Redeemer of love, and persecute those of a different faith; to devour widows houses, and
for a pretence make long prayers; to preach continence, and wallow in lust; to inculcate
humility, and in pride surpass Lucifer; to pay tithe, and omit the weightier matters of the
law, judgment, mercy and faith; to strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel; to make clean the
outside of the cup and platter, keeping them full within of extortion and excess; to appear
outwardly righteous unto men, but within be full of hypocrisy and iniquity, is indeed to be
like unto whited sepulchres, which appear beautiful outward, but are within full of bones of
the dead and of all uncleanness.

Second instance of Lucifer follows, the paragraphs before and after seem to link this reference of lucifer to being deceitful.
Quote
The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a
black god, but the negation of God. The Devil is the personification of Atheism or Idolatry.
For the Initiates, this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may serve
for evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force, which
presides over the physical generation, under the mythologic and horned form of the God
PAN; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-
bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend.

Third, fourth, and fifth (and final) references of lucifer
Quote
The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that
Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer.
LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness!
Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors
intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! for traditions are full of
Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed.
Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.
Every mention (when coupled with the leading and following paragraphs) seems to indicate that Lucifer is not to be worshiped, nor is he the god of freemasonry.

There was a rumor that spread about a hundred years ago that Albert Pike actually said those things in Morals and Dogma with references, and what not, to the supposed point that Pike says those things in that book. They never happened and years later it was proven to be a hoax. This hoax is still popular among fundamentalist Protestants and those who read Jack Chick tracts talking about how Masonry is evil.

Now, I am not a Mason, but I was very interested in them when I was younger. I did a lot of studying and research on them. I have found a lot of things against them and a lot of things for them in my studies. It seems to me that most of the negative stuff comes from those who could not get into the group (known as being black balled), however there are those that have been in the group and thought that Masonry and Christianity are not compatible. Some people toss up protests against them for having secrets... Well do a google search, you will find out anything you want to know that way, I did, and have talked to many Masons who thought I was one because of how much I knew.

BTW every lodge is dedicated to the Holy Saints John (Baptist and Apostle), and to follow the York rite you must be a Christian. I am not saying that they are a great group, I am not saying that I endorse them, but I do wish that some people would actually research some of this stuff before jumping on the hating bandwagon.
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« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2011, 05:01:51 PM »

What have you heard about the IOOF that is weird?
It seems like a fraternal group that doesn't sound particularly bad...
Just having oaths or something isn't that weird...
The Grange for example was a mainstream farmers' charity and has some rituals.
The local Grange was made of some old people, and they mentioned possibly inducting me with some ritual about the seasons. But I wasn't really interested...
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« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2011, 05:11:41 PM »

What have you heard about the IOOF that is weird?
It seems like a fraternal group that doesn't sound particularly bad...

Think again!



ps: Best scan I could find . . . the text ain't so great.
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« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2011, 05:46:40 PM »

Yes, freemasons are luciferians.  Even Albert Pike said this in morals and dogma.  There is an excellent web site called freemasonrywatch.org that will have more info.

I have read Morals and Dogma and never once found where Pike said anything of the sort.

See, you actually read the material.  You should stick to regurgitated conspiracy theory websites for the real stuff. Wink

Quote
There was a rumor that spread about a hundred years ago that Albert Pike actually said those things in Morals and Dogma with references, and what not, to the supposed point that Pike says those things in that book. They never happened and years later it was proven to be a hoax. This hoax is still popular among fundamentalist Protestants and those who read Jack Chick tracts talking about how Masonry is evil.

Exactly. Very similar stuff to the pamphlets on Orthodoxy being passed out by the Protestant fundamentalists.

Quote
...but I do wish that some people would actually research some of this stuff before jumping on the hating bandwagon.

As do I.  Sadly, "surfing the web" seems to qualify as research for many. 
Frankly, it's embarrassing to see some of the conspiracy type dross posted.
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« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2011, 05:51:46 PM »

Cognomen:

Your .sig? The audacity! //:=(

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« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2011, 06:03:42 PM »

Your .sig? The audacity! //:=(

Just spreading the ambiguous emoticon, while ironically begging the question.  I wasn't smart enough to quote you, but I'll work on that.

Edit to add this additional addition: Love the cards! //:=*
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« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2011, 06:50:45 PM »

the same holds true for the Boy Scouts of America

The Boy Scouts of America requires scouts to believe in a higher power without defining what that is.  However, the BSA also encourages scouts to be faithful to the dictates of their own faith.  It also does not say all religions are equal, there is no syncretism.  It simply states scouts will respect the rights of other scouts to hold beliefs different from their own.  The BSA is endorsed by SCOBA and the Easter Orthodox Committee on Scouting is their liason.
http://eocs.org/
my lack of knowledge rests on what the Masons believe then. could you(or someone in general) expand on what exactly the Masons believe in this regard, because from an outsiders, or at least my very own view, i could not tell what the difference was, as compared to the BSA, which im very familiar with(being involved in all aspects, from cub scouts through boy scouts and venturing, and as a new leader and eagle scout, not to mention the order of the arrow)

Masons promote religious indifference and promote their own ideals over those of any religion.  Secrecy is maintained with death oaths.  Masonry is basically a secret religion that says it doesn't matter what you are as long as you are a good Mason.  All this is quite differnt from Scouting.
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« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2011, 07:46:55 PM »

Secrecy is maintained with death oaths.
Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

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« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2011, 08:22:14 PM »

The greatest secret of the Freemasons is how they continue to get so much press despite their obvious irrelevance.

Mozart spilled all their secrets a long time ago in his Magic Flute for which he was murdered by, of course, Freemasons.

That's a new one. My understanding was that Mozart died from a mixture of drug abuse, alcoholism, and being half out of his mind with syphilis.

Seriously, I enjoy a good conspiracy theory, but isn't this a bit much?
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« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2011, 08:30:33 PM »

Secrecy is maintained with death oaths.
Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



Yeah, sounds funny...until one hears it invoked in the lodge.
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